Somehow this pic reminded me of Paranoid Android...
Gogo PvP action! Repeat of MSL finals from 2 seasons ago :-) (Is it just me, or did that seem really recent?)
Statistically, Stork has a 42-20 (67.74%) record PvP, whereas Bisu has much fewer games on record 15-12 (55.56%), but that didn't keep Bisu from 3-2'ing Stork in the MSL. However, since then Bisu has neither played much PvP or played particularly well in that matchup (1-3, with the only win coming off HerO). Stork on the other hand has been having fun destroying tosses all over the place, accumulating a 11-3 record.
Up to now, Bisu has mainly been demonstrating his imba PvZ, while Stork has similarly been showing off his PvT. Now however Bisu gets to play what is arguably his weakest matchup versus the one who I think has the best PvP at the moment (Then there are some who say Pusan, but Stork has yet to lose to Pusan >) Time for Stork's GodToss mode! It should be quite an addicting series, if Stork doesn't pwn Bisu too hard that is. There is of course one extra element...though Stork's PvP does appear to be superior and more consistent to Bisu's PvP, Stork hasn't performed as well as expected in games that are very important, whereas Bisu, well, let's just say he answered that question the moment he became prominent (3-0'ing the Jesus Zerg while making it clear in Savior's FPVODs that he had utterly disoriented Savior?).
As f10esqftw noted, Stork made a couple of mistakes during the previous MSL Finals against Bisu which most likely cost him the series. Stork himself said to Bisu's face that he would have won if not for those errors. Perhaps this time Stork can overcome his nervousness and not have such mistakes occur! We may also see Bisu making the mistakes this time, as recently he has taken a number of hits, having lost the MSL finals and doing rather poorly in Proleague. Their MSL Finals games were dead even, but if we remove Stork's error we have a victory for Stork. Whether he makes these errors or not this time may decide the series, and the OSL itself, as the winner of this series is likely to win the finals over Jaedong. Stork though must first make sure to not get disoriented by the pressure and fall behind, as I find it unlikely that he would come out of the hole due to Bisu's amazing multitasking ability, being able to harass and macro with amazing proficiency. However, should Stork be able to concentrate and play the game at his best, he should be able to overcome Bisu's forces (but not without some sexy micro/macro action!) Let's just hope that nothing like forgetting to upgrade dragoon range occurs... (because then there might be one rather unsexy game ).
Ah damn, I do want to see Bisu try his PvZ on Jaedong in the finals though, since we have yet to see a non-Savior zerg take on Bisu in the most important of games. Bisu would be likely to dismantle Jaedong though, whereas a Stork vs Jaedong final would be more balanced as neither Stork nor Jaedong have shown any particular dominance in that matchup as Bisu has. Stork or Bisu..... >.<
I hope the BW gods aren't still pissy at Stork for doing a FBH around iloveoov
VS
GOGOGOGOGOGO!!!
Though I believe ambit!ous1 summed it best when he described this series as...... + Show Spoiler +
Bisu spawns at 11, Stork at 5. Both are going double gateway. Lol Stork's scouting probe is trailing 3 zealots. They both take their nat, at the exact same time. Now gas and cyber core going up for both. Finally Stork's scouting probe is killed, and a few moments later Bisu's as well. They both start their robotics facility. Bisu is building another robo facility. Observatory and 3rd gateway going up for Bisu. Stork has 3 gateways and a citadel of adun up, but has only 1 robo facility with obs. Forge now going up for Bisu, and observer comes out. Quad gateway for Stork. Obs reaches Stork's base. Bisu is now putting up his 4th gateway. Stork moving out, with around 14 speedlots and 2 dragoons and a shuttle/reaver. Bisu 3 reavers in base. Make that 4! Stork's reaver just destroyed at least half of the probes in Bisu's main! 2 shuttle/4 reaver moving out for Bisu. They meet Stork's shuttle along the way, so no element of surprise anymore. Stork has cannoned his mineral lines. Stork's reaver destroying more probes! Massive army for Stork. Bisu has lost all his dragoons, they engaged Stork's army in the middle of the map and got owned, and 2 reavers died as well for Bisu. 2 dragoons 2 zealot 2 reavers defending for Bisu. DT Kills a reaver! Stork in Bisu's base now. 6 dragoons for Stork vs 1 for bisu, Stork also has few speedlots. Bisu GG's, 1-0 Stork!
Bisu at 11, Stork at 1. Looks like the standard opening, gateway going up for both. Nvm, Stork builds gas. Cyber core going up for Stork. Bisu's gas is now going up too. Now Bisu building cyber core. He seems to be a bit behind Stork. 2nd gateway going up for Bisu. Stork's 1st dragoon came out at the same time. Stork is staying with 1 gateway. Robotics facility going up for Stork. Bisu. Now Stork builds his second gateway. Bisu is moving out with 2 zealots and a dragoon against Stork. Stork at the same time is moving out with 2 dragoons, and the forces see each other on the ramp in the middle of the map. Robotics bay going up for Stork. Bisu has 3 goons and 2 zealots now, Stork has 4 goons. Bisu's robotics facility is NOT YET DONE. Bisu attacks Stork's main. Attack is easily repulsed, loss of 2 goons for Stork, 2 goons and 2 zealots for Bisu. Now Bisu's robotics bay is going up. He is also building nexus at his nat. Stork's shuttle is moving out with his dragoons. Stork sets up his nat. Stork's shuttle/reaver ran into Bisu's goons, but is alive. Stork attacking Bisu's nat. Bisu forced to cancel the nexus. Bisu has his reaver now as well. Stork's army of 8 goon 1 shuttle/reaver sitting in Bisu's nat. Bisu 's shuttle is moving out. It drops a probe off on the main ground, bypassing Stork's block. Bisu kills Stork's obs! Lol Bisu secret expoing. Shuttle moving out again, dropping off Bisu's army on main ground. Stork sees the secret expo, kills it. Stork moving out! Bisu's army is trapped! Bisu's army just got destroyed. Stork had massive numerical superiority over the army that had been dropped on the main ground, as the drop was not yet complete. The shuttle died as well. Bisu's situation is not looking good. Bisu loses BOTH reavers and his shuttle to Stork's attack. Bisu GG's. 2-0 Stork!
Bisu spawns at 1, Stork at 7. 1st gateway going up for both players, as per the usual. Stork taking his gas now. Bisu on the other hand has gone double gate. Stork's cyber core is going up. Bisu's zealot is going to Stork's base. It got distracted by Stork's scouting probe lol. Bisu still has not taken gas. Stork's dragoon is out. 4 zealots heading for Stork's base from Bisu. Stork defending. Stork blocked Bisu's nat expo by building a pylon there, which Bisu is now working on. Meanwhile Bisu got his gas and began building his cyber core. Citadel of adun going up for Stork. Stork ing now expoiing, as is Bisu. We have Stork dragoon vs Bisu slow zealot in the middle, just skirmishing though, nothing major. Stork still has only 1 gateway. Bisu has put up 2 photon cannons in his nat. Robotics factiliy and templar archives going up for Stork. Citadel of adun finished for Bisu, templar archives going up for him now. Stork finally has his second gateway. Observatory going up for Stork. Robotics facility started for Bisu. Stork is taking his second gas. DT and shuttle out for Stork. If Stork goes to Bisu's main this could be bad. There are no detection there. Bisu has 2 DTs going to Stork's base, but Stork has obs. Bisu's nat just got raped, his main line too is abandoned. Stork is getting nicely ahead. Bisu is NOT MINING ANYWHERE. Bisu's nexus is now being hit. OMG bisu set probes back to work in main and they got raped. Now nat's probes are getting raped! The 2 DTs are finally killed, but in the meantime Bisu has lot MANY probes and lost MUCH time with no mining. Stork has a templar out, with a large army in his nat. Bisu still has his double gate, whereas Stork now has 4 gateways pumping. Bisu's obs now sees this fact. Stork's army is moving out. 2 templar 3 zealot and what i see as around 10 dragoon (damn I need to count faster). 4 templar now. Bisu's shuttle is going to Stork, but cannons deny it. oh! high templar psi storms Stork's nat from inside Stork's main. Stork has a large army heading for Bisu though. I'm not sure that Bisu can defend this. Bisu has 4 gateways though. The fight begins! Storms fly all over the place! Bisu loses his shuttle, which picked up a templar, but the base is succesfuly defended. Now Bisu is on the offensive. Stork though has a 3rd base now, with about 9 zealots and 1 archon defending there. Stork has 5 gateways. Bisu is starting his 3rd nexus, but Stork's 3rd nexus is already up and wokring for him. Stork drops into Bisu's nat and KILLS 70% of the probes there with a double storm. Stork is moving out with zealots/archon. Stork is taking his fourth base. I count about 11 zealot with a templar and an archon and a dragoon. THEY ENGAGE bisu's army. Massive STORMS RAPING BISU GOONS. Stork's reinforcements come and take Bisu's army. Anothe rdouble storm on Bisu's nat! Bisu has won the battle in mid, but he knows he is behind far economically, and GG's out. Stork wins 3-0!
Bisu 0-3 Stork STORK GOES TO THE FINALS! STORK VS JAEDONG!
On December 13 2007 06:22 Aepplet wrote: i think you can safely remove the pictures of the maps without people complaining, everyone must have seen them by now?
meh can't hurt to have them? My roomates here who are wanting to see this had no idea what the maps looked like :-) and they come to TL every now and then too lol
Edit: Meh.. you got some good stuff up there in the mean time, but I will add a little bit..
The only thing I'd say is that you may be relying on stats a little too much in determining how the games will go.
If you watched their matchup in the MSL finals, you would see that when they're both practiced and bring their A game, they are DEAD EVEN in PvP. They each took a game through straight play and each took a game through a clever strategy (if I recall correctly). Then the last game lasted extremely long, running out almost all the minerals on a large map. I wouldn't have been surprised if it had ended in a stalemate, except a couple flukes swung things slightly in Bisu's favor, who barely won the game with a reaver built with his last resources without any spare minerals coming in. But basically it was about as close as it could possibly have been. Both of them had perfectly placed storms and impeccable micro and game sense.
In terms of their play in that set, I think that Stork had slightly better storms and Bisu had slightly better shuttle micro, but I'm excited that Stork seems to have taken his near perfect shuttle micro and perfected it. Watch his recent game 3 against Flash if you don't believe me (and watch game 2 against Flash if you want proof against me, lol). In the MSL finals, Stork made approximately 2 mistakes the entire set, and Bisu made 0. But Stork actually said IN FRONT OF BISU after the final game that he knows he could have won if he hadn't made stupid mistakes, and as cocky as that is, I believe him. Plus, Bisu has taken a couple hits recently, so he may be slightly shaken. We may see Bisu making the 1 mistake this time. If Stork plays as perfectly as I know he can, I think he will come out 3:2.
I think whoever wins this set will be able to beat Jaedong. After a heavy loss to Mind, Bisu will be gunning for the OSL title to redeem himself. But Stork has been deserving a major title for some time now and it has been barely eluding his grasp, so he will be trying to make this his big chance, too. I would feel bad for Bisu getting knocked out of both starleagues, but Stork deserves this more. I expect both of them are practicing their asses off all this week... so one way or another we're going to see Starcraft being played at its absolute top level.
"Omg.........." when he saw Lenin's body with BIsu's face on it :-) He is now rooting for Bisu, cause he doesn't want Rommel (aka Stork) pwning Lenin lol
On December 13 2007 07:39 EtherealDeath wrote: lol my russian roomate:
"Omg.........." when he saw Lenin's body with BIsu's face on it :-) He is now rooting for Bisu, cause he doesn't want Rommel (aka Stork) pwning Lenin lol
Bisu's Proleague performance is the main reason his PvP record looks weaker in comparison to Stork. He hasn't had a good PL season this time around. That said, this will probably go 3:2 either way, because both of them have magnificent PvP.
On December 13 2007 11:01 .dragoon wrote: It's too early to make a thread.
Hype it up now, I've gathered pics and will be making a new one tomorrow.
This one looks just fine to me.
I agree, I think he's just annoyed because he didn't get to make this Epic Thread :p .dragoon, you could probably just ask ED to post the pics and whatnot in the OP.
We had our epic threads for savior vs bisu in the ro8, this mirror rematch and the crappy final we're headed for are low points compare to that.
Still I have been making these threads for osl, and I've gone through the grind to look for proper photos, so I'm gonna make something out of it. This one's boring to me
On December 13 2007 12:12 .dragoon wrote: We had our epic threads for savior vs bisu in the ro8, this mirror rematch and the crappy final we're headed for are low points compare to that.
Still I have been making these threads for osl, and I've gone through the grind to look for proper photos, so I'm gonna make something out of it. This one's boring to me
oops didn't notice you had been making the OSL threads, i tend to not notice the name on the thread
On December 13 2007 12:40 ambit!ous1 wrote: the only one thing i dont like about this thread is that the O P is a Stork fan and possiably a Bisu hater.
i think the O P's should be somewhat neutral when posting important match up like this one. its just not fair for the Bisu fans.
I am not a Bisu hater >< I just merely had to go to dinner and thus was not done typing. Actually I would rather Bisu win than Stork, but it seems more likely to me that Stork will win. Bisu's sexy PvZ is what made me come out of my 2 year SC retirement :-) (I was protoss originally).
This is like the primaries. Soon we'll have semifinal threads before the quarterfinals happen.
Honestly I'd think we should have a maximum time, like 12 or 24 hours before matches start to make a non-finals thread. Making it like 2 days in advance will get more spam and fewer of the well thought-out posts and images on the early pages. You could have a hype thread anytime before the match starts (a week if you want) and then the report thread the day of. That way we could also separate the biased, fanboy, player-x-is-going-to-win-3-1 comments from the useful gamecasting and "why did player-x do that" comments. Also people like me and the other 10 ppl that have done so so far won't complain about how early the thread is.
On December 13 2007 13:04 Manifesto7 wrote: Well if EtherealDeath is ok with it, perhaps we can combine the two OP tomorrow into one magical superthread.
i really like the op Hoping for a 3-0 by Bisu cuz I still don't like Stork. Predicting 3-2 for Bisu again possibly in the same order as last time Bisu > Stork> Bisu> Stork> Bisu>
If Bisu wins on Blue Storm and is playing 100% on form, I like his chances a great deal. Blue Storm (and IIRC, Monty hall in their last showdown) are not maps Bisu likes at all.
On December 13 2007 14:50 HaXxorIzed wrote: If Bisu wins on Blue Storm and is playing 100% on form, I like his chances a great deal. Blue Storm (and IIRC, Monty hall in their last showdown) are not maps Bisu likes at all.
At least he won't have any problems choosing an opening to use, he'll just have to macro well and there's no disadvantage.
On December 13 2007 11:01 .dragoon wrote: It's too early to make a thread.
Hype it up now, I've gathered pics and will be making a new one tomorrow.
On December 13 2007 12:12 .dragoon wrote: We had our epic threads for savior vs bisu in the ro8, this mirror rematch and the crappy final we're headed for are low points compare to that.
Still I have been making these threads for osl, and I've gone through the grind to look for proper photos, so I'm gonna make something out of it. This one's boring to me
Stop being a jerk .dragoon. EtherealDeath is obviously extremely excited about this match and made a great OP for the report thread. Instead of being a jackass just talk to Ethereal about adding in whatever "proper" photos you got. Hopefully the result will be a 'magical superthread'.
PS: I think Stork has better PvP but Bisu has proved he plays better under pressure and/or has better nerves than Stork so the result should be another really close match. If Stork can somehow control his nerves and strive under the pressure he should win. I'm rooting for Stork to win this whole OSL. Jaedong can have his Starleague win another time, and Bisu has already had his twice.
On December 13 2007 15:43 EtherealDeath wrote: it is a bit saddening that stork had to eliminate nada along the way :-( but then again nada was totally out of shape back then, so either way....
NaDa eliminated himself. Unpimpest play of the year has to go his farce of an ending against Jaedong. :/
I like the OP, one thing I don't like though is how the predictions are placed above the results. When people are in an anxious rush to see the results, they dont want to accidentally click on the predictions and then be utterly confused and misinformed. Also, it kind of implies that the predictions are more important than the results, and frankly i don't care for anyones predictions at all :[.
Well, the fact is that Bisu is so clutch, he always rises to the occasion when he is close to attaining something. It's like the last finals of (MSL?) they met where everyone was pretty sure that Stork was gonna win due to his stellar PvP, but Bisu took it down 3-2.
Statistically Stork should win, but I still think Bisu will take it.
On December 13 2007 16:32 boghat wrote: Stop being a jerk .dragoon. EtherealDeath is obviously extremely excited about this match and made a great OP for the report thread. Instead of being a jackass just talk to Ethereal about adding in whatever "proper" photos you got. Hopefully the result will be a 'magical superthread'.
Nope, can't do that. I don't do half-assed. And on the flip side I gotta do everything or it kills the purpose of doing it, you feel me?
On December 13 2007 16:32 boghat wrote: Stop being a jerk .dragoon. EtherealDeath is obviously extremely excited about this match and made a great OP for the report thread. Instead of being a jackass just talk to Ethereal about adding in whatever "proper" photos you got. Hopefully the result will be a 'magical superthread'.
Nope, can't do that. I don't do half-assed. And on the flip side I gotta do everything or it kills the purpose of doing it, you feel me?
Thanks for the opinion though
-ps 666 the beast post, you feel me?
Nobody made you the "offical thread maker of progaming events to come."
Expect to have your future threads flamed to hell with "oh, this one sucks, I'll make a better one!" responses.
I think if anyone is tired of the "make a prediction" culture that TL.net has fostered for so long, then now is the perfect time to throw it off. Not only is this match nearly impossible to predict, but it's looking to be one of the best matches to simply watch and enjoy. #1 and #2 KeSPA, a rematch, both have something to prove, both are the favorite to win the finals. I'd hate to see someone not fully enjoy the genius and skill of either Bisu or Stork simply because in the back of their mind they're disappointed that their prediction is failing or because they have a stupid grudge against one of them for eliminating their favorite player or doing a stupid ceremony.
I for one am cheering for Bisu, but that does not mean I won't appreciate any awesomeness that Stork does!
As for Stork's talk about game-losing errors... well of course! Everyone knows that nobody play perfectly. Most imperfections go unnoticed, but on occasion the opponent will take advantage of an imperfection and turn the game around because of it. I think almost every progamer can say after a match "there are some mistakes I made that, if I hadn't made them, I would have won" but Stork is the only loser sore enough to say that to his opponent's face immediately after the match. The only times when people don't know their game-losing mistakes immediately is when they were beat strategically. Like I think sAviOr did not know how the hell he could've beat Bisu the first time he lost to him. But this latter case is rare in televised matches since people can't innovate very often.
On December 13 2007 07:39 EtherealDeath wrote: lol my russian roomate:
"Omg.........." when he saw Lenin's body with BIsu's face on it :-) He is now rooting for Bisu, cause he doesn't want Rommel (aka Stork) pwning Lenin lol
Ugh, Bisu's face on Lenin's body is a big insult to Lenin. Bisu =/= SOVIET. Compare him to mao instead.
On December 13 2007 07:39 EtherealDeath wrote: lol my russian roomate:
"Omg.........." when he saw Lenin's body with BIsu's face on it :-) He is now rooting for Bisu, cause he doesn't want Rommel (aka Stork) pwning Lenin lol
I wan't to see some stork humiliation. If bisu is the one to kick his nuts or jaedong doesn't really matter to me. But a starleague win for this guy would be the worst.
On December 13 2007 07:39 EtherealDeath wrote: lol my russian roomate:
"Omg.........." when he saw Lenin's body with BIsu's face on it :-) He is now rooting for Bisu, cause he doesn't want Rommel (aka Stork) pwning Lenin lol
Ugh, Bisu's face on Lenin's body is a big insult to Lenin. Bisu =/= SOVIET. Compare him to mao instead.
No. . . . . . . .
Haha I think he looks better than the original ^^ Lenin would be proud
And yeah, it is good photoshoping. If Pol Pot is too much, Bisu should be like Mao, or Ho Chi Minh. But not Lenin/Stalin. They should be represented by a white progamer or at least a terran.
Well, speaking on predictions, I think Bisu has an edge here.
Back then in GOMTV MSL, Bisu was known as a PvZ genius with other MU's underdeveloped, while Stork was a known PvP master.
Their games have shown a trend: while Stork is overall better on control (just watch his storms), Bisu is more likely to execute good control when it really matters. Stork had that game until one arbiter of Bisu shifted everything. I dunno, Stork is an awesome protoss who has insane mechanics and a pretty ballsy PvT. Bisu, on the other hand, is still a champignon. Just watch how differently these two win games - Bisu crawls back out of every odd PvT he plays, while Stork generally either wins or loses. I'm still confident Bisu is ahead in game feel, furthermore, he is ever ready to accept his championship while Stork doesn't seem to have the maturity to do so. Stork? Champ? He lacks the self-confidence to be one. So, I think Bisu has a small edge just because of these psychological differences. But, on the other hand, his confidence could be still not fully rejuvenated after the MSL finals, so who knows.
Eh, I think when you look at Bisu and Stork, Stork has better mechanics, Bisu has a better game sense. But Bisu's game sense is quite a bit more refined than Stork's, while their difference in mechanics isn't quite as huge. I think this leads to Bisu being more confident and Stork less so, so when it comes crunch time Stork is more likely to falter.
I still maintain Stork had a chance to salvage that stasis, but he completely blew it. He probably still would have lost, but he just kind of sat there.
On December 14 2007 00:12 NonY[rC] wrote: Posting what I wrote in another topic...
I think if anyone is tired of the "make a prediction" culture that TL.net has fostered for so long, then now is the perfect time to throw it off. Not only is this match nearly impossible to predict, but it's looking to be one of the best matches to simply watch and enjoy. #1 and #2 KeSPA, a rematch, both have something to prove, both are the favorite to win the finals. I'd hate to see someone not fully enjoy the genius and skill of either Bisu or Stork simply because in the back of their mind they're disappointed that their prediction is failing or because they have a stupid grudge against one of them for eliminating their favorite player or doing a stupid ceremony.
Who IS tired of the "prediction culture"? Making predictions is for many an integral part of being a sports fan, and it is certainly an inevitable consequence of getting a large number of fans together. Who cares if the predictions are correct, it is all part of the hype and anticipation that makes following any sport so enjoyable.
That said, I totally agree that this is to close to call comfortably! Stork may have a better PvP record, but Bisu has demonstrated his "clutch" time and time again. What is more, a consummate pro like Bisu is hardly likely to let a few recent defeats stop him from bringing his A game to the table. I'm certain we will see some great games. Too bad I have to go to work 30 mins after the games start!
If pushed I would give it to Bisu by a hairs breadth. Then he will get raped 3:0 by Jaedong
Fear not though NonY, it won't affect my enjoyment of the matches if I am wrong!
Lol if jaedong 3-0'd bisu, i would be very VERY WTFH WTFH WTFH WTFH.
But Savior would be even more WTFH. Cause he tried like hell and still got raped. It would be nice to see Jaedong win an OSL though, but if he had to face Bisu.....
Then again, Savior had what a 80% ZvP record when Bisu smacked his ass?
btw guys what do you think would be better, if updated the battle report repeatedly during the games inside the results spoiler or just post them onto the thread as replies?
There won't be only you reporting and someone reporting off the DAUM player should be more up to date than you are on yy. Therefore just add a summary afterwards and let the live-reports do their magic as replies.
On a random sidenote, I swear I've been on TL more often in the last week than in the past year (excluding last week). I blame it on Bisu lol, sexyToss vs Savior got me protoss addicted ><
Now I don't know who I'm gonna root for anymore :-( dammit
I really hope Bisu crashes and smashes the Birdtoss.
While none can deny Stork's skill and stats, he really doesn't display anything exciting in his gameplay/strategy that makes wanna scream "like a 9 year-old on Christmas morning". Besides that dual Robo build vs Bisu @ their MSL final, I never saw anything exciting from Stork. I didn't follow him too much either, he really lacks the charm and style which revolutionary Bisu has by the tons
I also find Stork more of a standard player (tho an exceptionally good one, no doubt).
On December 14 2007 00:12 NonY[rC] wrote: Posting what I wrote in another topic...
I think if anyone is tired of the "make a prediction" culture that TL.net has fostered for so long, then now is the perfect time to throw it off. Not only is this match nearly impossible to predict, but it's looking to be one of the best matches to simply watch and enjoy. #1 and #2 KeSPA, a rematch, both have something to prove, both are the favorite to win the finals. I'd hate to see someone not fully enjoy the genius and skill of either Bisu or Stork simply because in the back of their mind they're disappointed that their prediction is failing or because they have a stupid grudge against one of them for eliminating their favorite player or doing a stupid ceremony.
Who IS tired of the "prediction culture"?
Wellllll there are just under 1,400 people in the liquibet ranking this season and there are well over 10,000 unique visitors every day, so I guess most people are already tired of it or were never a fan of predicting in the first place ;o Perhaps I've already won this war!!!!! Die predictors!!
I have no idea who is gonna win this match and I LIKE IT
I don't see why everyone's going on about Stork's storms, Bisu storms just as well, especially in Game 5 Bisu pulled off some amazing storms consistently, while Stork faltered and let Bisu win battles he shouldn't have.
can you be more of a faggot? sc2.org is down indefinitely and yaoyuan is for chinese. duam player is your best bet, but people are only using it in recent times. how is he supposed to know to look for duam player? again, you're a faggot.
can you be more of a faggot? sc2.org is down indefinitely and yaoyuan is for chinese. duam player is your best bet, but people are only using it in recent times. how is he supposed to know to look for duam player? again, you're a faggot.
He's a faggot for telling some1 to use the search function? and no you're wrong.. I can find it easily using keywords. But nice flame tho..
can you be more of a faggot? sc2.org is down indefinitely and yaoyuan is for chinese. duam player is your best bet, but people are only using it in recent times. how is he supposed to know to look for duam player? again, you're a faggot.
No, he's not the faggot. In most of these threads, people specifically post not to ask about how to find streams, because it disrupts the discussion. He also gave the proper link, which you didn't bother to check.
He should have used the search function, and he would have found his answer. Don't be asking for a ban, bitch.
On December 14 2007 09:40 .dragoon wrote: On a 2nd look, the OP seems to have gotten longer and have got more pics added. And I can't say the OP is not enthusiastic.
I'll save my stuff for the 1st/3rd place matches, it's the same players anyway. It's all you this time aye?
On December 14 2007 00:12 NonY[rC] wrote: Posting what I wrote in another topic...
I think if anyone is tired of the "make a prediction" culture that TL.net has fostered for so long, then now is the perfect time to throw it off. Not only is this match nearly impossible to predict, but it's looking to be one of the best matches to simply watch and enjoy. #1 and #2 KeSPA, a rematch, both have something to prove, both are the favorite to win the finals. I'd hate to see someone not fully enjoy the genius and skill of either Bisu or Stork simply because in the back of their mind they're disappointed that their prediction is failing or because they have a stupid grudge against one of them for eliminating their favorite player or doing a stupid ceremony.
I for one am cheering for Bisu, but that does not mean I won't appreciate any awesomeness that Stork does!
As for Stork's talk about game-losing errors... well of course! Everyone knows that nobody play perfectly. Most imperfections go unnoticed, but on occasion the opponent will take advantage of an imperfection and turn the game around because of it. I think almost every progamer can say after a match "there are some mistakes I made that, if I hadn't made them, I would have won" but Stork is the only loser sore enough to say that to his opponent's face immediately after the match. The only times when people don't know their game-losing mistakes immediately is when they were beat strategically. Like I think sAviOr did not know how the hell he could've beat Bisu the first time he lost to him. But this latter case is rare in televised matches since people can't innovate very often.
Might as well get rid of Liquibet too. It's full of predicting and such.
On December 14 2007 10:11 OneOther wrote: hey .dragoon
I agree with you Nony in principle, but I think most people who predict are doing it with their hearts rather than their heads. Perhaps in liquibet there is some more calculated thinking, but when it comes to these threads I think people vote with their heart.
So, even when they watch the game, they will be cheering for one person or the other. That being said, I don't think that bias takes away from the skills displayed by the other people.
On December 14 2007 10:32 Manifesto7 wrote: Can we please stick the topic?
I agree with you Nony in principle, but I think most people who predict are doing it with their hearts rather than their heads. Perhaps in liquibet there is some more calculated thinking, but when it comes to these threads I think people vote with their heart.
So, even when they watch the game, they will be cheering for one person or the other. That being said, I don't think that bias takes away from the skills displayed by the other people.
Ya I might be a little off the mark. But in any case, I just want people to enjoy the games. These are some very talented players and I'm so excited about these games!
This is such an impossible series to predict and honestly I'd be happy with either player winning. I like them both, but not THAT much For the hell of it...GO STORK! Mainly because I think he is way too good to be without a starleague title.
With all this buildup, both players should deliver quite nicely. There's quite a lot of emotional investment from many of the spectators in this one, and I would not be surprised if the Protoss fanboys are split down the middle (on particular). That said, I always thought their Mechanics were about even (Stork's Reaver control/storms were prominent in the last series, Bisu has continued to build on his multitasking abilities however).
Looks like I have something in the academic sense to consider before the games, and observe in the games. I'll be going for Bisu though, because I want him to win this OSL. That would confirm his importance in this era for Protoss playstyles, I believe.
On December 14 2007 10:32 Manifesto7 wrote: Can we please stick the topic?
I agree with you Nony in principle, but I think most people who predict are doing it with their hearts rather than their heads. Perhaps in liquibet there is some more calculated thinking, but when it comes to these threads I think people vote with their heart.
So, even when they watch the game, they will be cheering for one person or the other. That being said, I don't think that bias takes away from the skills displayed by the other people.
Agreed. You can cheer for a player, even be a die hard fan, and still appreciate the skills and talents of the player he's playing against. Unless you're just so rediculously biased to the point of idiocy (Last Romantic comes to mind...).
On December 14 2007 10:32 Manifesto7 wrote: Can we please stick the topic?
I agree with you Nony in principle, but I think most people who predict are doing it with their hearts rather than their heads. Perhaps in liquibet there is some more calculated thinking, but when it comes to these threads I think people vote with their heart.
So, even when they watch the game, they will be cheering for one person or the other. That being said, I don't think that bias takes away from the skills displayed by the other people.
Ya I might be a little off the mark. But in any case, I just want people to enjoy the games. These are some very talented players and I'm so excited about these games!
I really hope to see some nice commentaries made on them
On December 14 2007 11:19 Manifesto7 wrote: Scorpion, I said shut the fuck up. Seriously, take it to PMs or something if you want to call each other names.
On December 14 2007 10:32 Manifesto7 wrote: Can we please stick the topic?
I agree with you Nony in principle, but I think most people who predict are doing it with their hearts rather than their heads. Perhaps in liquibet there is some more calculated thinking, but when it comes to these threads I think people vote with their heart.
So, even when they watch the game, they will be cheering for one person or the other. That being said, I don't think that bias takes away from the skills displayed by the other people.
Ya I might be a little off the mark. But in any case, I just want people to enjoy the games. These are some very talented players and I'm so excited about these games!
I really hope to see some nice commentaries made on them
Though NonY would bring WAY more insight to the games than I will, if you were implying he should.... Diggity and I at least will be doing dual commentaries on all the games in this set and posting them on the VioleTAK account.
On December 14 2007 07:50 ray1234 wrote: pfff for all those who thinks stork is boring: its not like bisu's ever done anything interesting... same build every game, LAME.
Lame vs Lamoit.
LOL. There is more to a player than his builds. Granted, boxer used builds and strategies to set himself apart. However Bisu is the master of aggressive play, and it is exciting!! Even if HE uses the same build it is a joy watching him react aggressively to what is thrown at him. So stop hating on the Bisu build
Stork and Bisu. We can compare them as Tessadar and Zeratul.
Stork is like Tessadar, seeking the road of perfection with tranditional and widely accepted protoss way. Nothing can corrupt him. Because he firmly believes his way is the only right way and there are no other ways.
Bisu who came out of nowhere defeating Maestro Savior 3-0 is like Zeratul. Dark templar who practices the dark art. Outcasted by his own race. He denies the old ways of protoss. And by denying, he dare creates a new era, a new revolution for protoss. He is an unwelcomed hero, but soon accepted by all. A revolutionist.
They walk two separate roads. But their goal is the same, to become perfect protoss. And so, two protoss collides, both having something to prove to one another. Who will merge as victor and who will stumble as failure?
... Two protoss battles on for years, both failing to prove their superiority. Thousands of years later... a man appears. He perfected both ways of protoss. He fears nothing, no he doesn't, not even a zerg. Yes, his brutality will force terran to sacrifice barracks to provide him 10,000 virgin medics. He is the ultimate protoss whether you like it or not. His name is + Show Spoiler +
On December 14 2007 12:04 FConnectionUK wrote: Stork and Bisu. We can compare them as Tessadar and Zeratul.
Stork is like Tessadar, seeking the road of perfection with tranditional and widely accepted protoss way. Nothing can corrupt him. Because he firmly believes his way is the only right way and there are no other ways.
Bisu who came out of nowhere defeating Maestro Savior 3-0 is like Zeratul. Dark templar who practices the dark art. Outcasted by his own race. He denies the old ways of protoss. And by denying, he dare creates a new era, a new revolution for protoss. He is an unwelcomed hero, but soon accepted by all. A revolutionist.
They walk two separate roads. But their goal is the same, to become perfect protoss. And so, two protoss collides, both having something to prove to one another. Who will merge as victor and who will stumble as failure?
... Two protoss battles on for years, both failing to prove their superiority. Thousands of years later... a man appears. He perfected both ways of protoss. He fears nothing, no he doesn't, not even a zerg. Yes, his brutality will force terran to sacrifice barracks to provide him 10,000 virgin medics. He is the ultimate protoss whether you like it or not. His name is + Show Spoiler +
On December 14 2007 11:19 Manifesto7 wrote: Scorpion, I said shut the fuck up. Seriously, take it to PMs or something if you want to call each other names.
On December 14 2007 10:32 Manifesto7 wrote: Can we please stick the topic?
I agree with you Nony in principle, but I think most people who predict are doing it with their hearts rather than their heads. Perhaps in liquibet there is some more calculated thinking, but when it comes to these threads I think people vote with their heart.
So, even when they watch the game, they will be cheering for one person or the other. That being said, I don't think that bias takes away from the skills displayed by the other people.
Ya I might be a little off the mark. But in any case, I just want people to enjoy the games. These are some very talented players and I'm so excited about these games!
I really hope to see some nice commentaries made on them
On December 14 2007 12:04 FConnectionUK wrote: Stork and Bisu. We can compare them as Tessadar and Zeratul.
Stork is like Tessadar, seeking the road of perfection with tranditional and widely accepted protoss way. Nothing can corrupt him. Because he firmly believes his way is the only right way and there are no other ways.
Bisu who came out of nowhere defeating Maestro Savior 3-0 is like Zeratul. Dark templar who practices the dark art. Outcasted by his own race. He denies the old ways of protoss. And by denying, he dare creates a new era, a new revolution for protoss. He is an unwelcomed hero, but soon accepted by all. A revolutionist.
They walk two separate roads. But their goal is the same, to become perfect protoss. And so, two protoss collides, both having something to prove to one another. Who will merge as victor and who will stumble as failure?
... Two protoss battles on for years, both failing to prove their superiority. Thousands of years later... a man appears. He perfected both ways of protoss. He fears nothing, no he doesn't, not even a zerg. Yes, his brutality will force terran to sacrifice barracks to provide him 10,000 virgin medics. He is the ultimate protoss whether you like it or not. His name is + Show Spoiler +
Emmmrm, I'd better compare Stork to Aldaris or Artanis (depending on whether you consider his behavior arrogant or childish), Tassadar is the wielder of the both ways.
On December 14 2007 12:04 FConnectionUK wrote: Stork and Bisu. We can compare them as Tessadar and Zeratul.
Stork is like Tessadar, seeking the road of perfection with tranditional and widely accepted protoss way. Nothing can corrupt him. Because he firmly believes his way is the only right way and there are no other ways.
Bisu who came out of nowhere defeating Maestro Savior 3-0 is like Zeratul. Dark templar who practices the dark art. Outcasted by his own race. He denies the old ways of protoss. And by denying, he dare creates a new era, a new revolution for protoss. He is an unwelcomed hero, but soon accepted by all. A revolutionist.
They walk two separate roads. But their goal is the same, to become perfect protoss. And so, two protoss collides, both having something to prove to one another. Who will merge as victor and who will stumble as failure?
... Two protoss battles on for years, both failing to prove their superiority. Thousands of years later... a man appears. He perfected both ways of protoss. He fears nothing, no he doesn't, not even a zerg. Yes, his brutality will force terran to sacrifice barracks to provide him 10,000 virgin medics. He is the ultimate protoss whether you like it or not. His name is + Show Spoiler +
THEROCK
MARK MY WORDS
I think this is the best post i've ever read on all of TL.
On December 14 2007 12:04 FConnectionUK wrote: Stork and Bisu. We can compare them as Tessadar and Zeratul.
Stork is like Tessadar, seeking the road of perfection with tranditional and widely accepted protoss way. Nothing can corrupt him. Because he firmly believes his way is the only right way and there are no other ways.
Bisu who came out of nowhere defeating Maestro Savior 3-0 is like Zeratul. Dark templar who practices the dark art. Outcasted by his own race. He denies the old ways of protoss. And by denying, he dare creates a new era, a new revolution for protoss. He is an unwelcomed hero, but soon accepted by all. A revolutionist.
They walk two separate roads. But their goal is the same, to become perfect protoss. And so, two protoss collides, both having something to prove to one another. Who will merge as victor and who will stumble as failure?
... Two protoss battles on for years, both failing to prove their superiority. Thousands of years later... a man appears. He perfected both ways of protoss. He fears nothing, no he doesn't, not even a zerg. Yes, his brutality will force terran to sacrifice barracks to provide him 10,000 virgin medics. He is the ultimate protoss whether you like it or not. His name is + Show Spoiler +
THEROCK
MARK MY WORDS
I think this is the best post i've ever read on all of TL.
It completely saved the thread after the bitch fest.
Let me just say that anyone who thinks Bisu's play is boring doesn't understand how beautiful it is. You can hate him, you can think he is a fluke, you can think he's less dominant than the other multiple MSL winners, but his play is anything but boring.
On December 14 2007 13:55 Hot_Bid wrote: Let me just say that anyone who thinks Bisu's play is boring doesn't understand how beautiful it is. You can hate him, you can think he is a fluke, you can think he's less dominant than the other multiple MSL winners, but his play is anything but boring.
Couldn't have said it better myself. His play is so damn intense, more than any other player I watch.
I am really looking forward to this match, both because i really enjoy watching Bisu in a PvP series but more so because of what Stork did to the Cheater, doing a FBH againts the Cheater.. no matter what Oov did or what ever happend in the SKT1 camp.. that will get me rooting for the guy facing Stork for the next year..
Its allmost like im 10y old again getting ready to watch some Wrestling on the telly and rooting for the other guy facing w/e heel that ambushed Hulk Hogan last week.. its like im expecting Oov to storm in with something writen on his chest after the match... im that psyched about this.
Just got up, its 7:17 in Denmark.. watching Oov Vs Reach 2004 EVER OSL Semi Final, called in sick and going to watch a few Bisu PvP's after this and 30 mins before game start im gonna finish it all off with Stork-v-Oov just to get me right frame of mind for the match.
i really don't get it... before bisu, everyone loved savior even though phrases like "whoring drones" and "abusing dark swarm" were often used to describe his play. along comes a guy who makes a match-up that was known to be imballanced look easy from the presumably disadvantaged race's point of view, and people say he's _unoriginal_? i don't understand why even in korea people still prefer savior. i went to see the first game of their recent osl match and, while there were _some_ cheers for bisu, it was clear that most people had gone there to see savior beat him. (honestly, one schoolgirl yelled savior's name so loud a few meters from me, i thought i had gone deaf on one ear.)
this guy has been opening with the same build for a year now, and ten minutes into the game his strategy has always changed into the one that will destroy whatever his opponent has chosen to go for. why are there still people cheering _against_ him?
There's always haters of the current Bojwa, some people cheer for the best, some hate cheering for the best, it's an odd psychology. I remember hating Micheal Shumacher, he won every race, boring as hell despite being perfection. Oddly, at the same time I was a fan of Alex Zinardi in CART, he was probably the best at the time, but I loved the guy.
Anyways, Bisu happens to be one of the best harassment-into macro over players in the game right now, which is exactly how it needs to be played. Just like Savior, he plays with a style where he's weaker than the other players in numbers of forces, but he has a knack for surviving. As soon as that advantage builds up, his opponent's done. Though this is harder to show in PvP, Bisu certainly showed some of it on Loki in Game 5, holding out with perfect positioning and storms until he could get those Arbiters up. I want to see Bisu and Stork sit down and decide to play a completely straight up game, and show up PvP on another level like their last final. Only 3 hours left!
It's a good point that if Stork wins it will be a more interesting final... if only because it will be more competitive. Though i would pick either one over Jaedong. Stork has a rep for having bad PvZ but it's not bad, just not as good as some others. He still has a winning PvZ % despite most of his games having been against better Zergs. His losses have been to Saviors and Julys and such, and Chojja 2 years ago.. but he's usually taken at least a game from them, even so. Yes, Bisu's play will be beautiful but Stork's is pretty damned sexy, too.
On December 14 2007 15:50 marshmallow wrote: Someone please explain why the abomination known as persona is being played in games which matter.
Every season needs a lemon, be it Monty Hall or, Persona. These maps aren't particularly good in general terms, but if you take a weird map, add 2 brilliant players: you never know under the right conditions what could happen. Unfortunately I don't see Persona returning for another season, unless they do something like remove the swarms from a ramps and just have the odd swarm in the center of the map to add to positional strategy.
On December 14 2007 16:05 IaniAniaN wrote: Every season needs a lemon, be it Monty Hall or, Persona. These maps aren't particularly good in general terms, but if you take a weird map, add 2 brilliant players: you never know under the right conditions what could happen.
No doubt. I don't mind a weird, offbeat map being in there. But twice? And as the deciding fifth game? Grumble grumble...
This probably has been said a hundred times, but is it just me, or is Fantasy completely biased towards the eight and eleven positions, (natural and min only all defended by a single small choke) while screwing over whoever ends up at one and five?
On December 14 2007 15:56 f10esqftw wrote: It's a good point that if Stork wins it will be a more interesting final... if only because it will be more competitive. Though i would pick either one over Jaedong. Stork has a rep for having bad PvZ but it's not bad, just not as good as some others. He still has a winning PvZ % despite most of his games having been against better Zergs. His losses have been to Saviors and Julys and such, and Chojja 2 years ago.. but he's usually taken at least a game from them, even so. Yes, Bisu's play will be beautiful but Stork's is pretty damned sexy, too.
More interesting? Stork has the most boring play of all known pros... hell, the only interesting game he took part in was with Leta, who completely owned his ass with dropship play.
On December 14 2007 16:47 Plutonium wrote: This probably has been said a hundred times, but is it just me, or is Fantasy completely biased towards the eight and eleven positions, (natural and min only all defended by a single small choke) while screwing over whoever ends up at one and five?
Fantasy needs another more balanced incarnation I think, but it's certainly one of the most interesting maps since Bifrost, even if unbalanced you get completely different dynamics with every pair of starting positions so its fun to watch. Personally I can't wait for the next incarnation, hopefully without the annoying RoV position.
I think Persona is bloody great, I think its the first 1v1 map that has this neutral dark swarm! Fantasy II however is a different story. SO annoying because of all those differences
It will come down to good old Game 5 on Persona! 1 hour and a half to go!
Is it me or does tl.net always take things to the extreme?
Stork does not have bad PvZ. In fact, outside of Bisu and compared to a lot of Protoss players his PvZ is pretty damn good. He's STILL a favorite over Jaedong if he wins this set - and by quite a good margin at that.
His PvZ is not bad, it's just that looking at Bisu every Protoss player seems to have bad PvZ.
On December 14 2007 17:08 Ace wrote: Is it me or does tl.net always take things to the extreme?
Stork does not have bad PvZ. In fact, outside of Bisu and compared to a lot of Protoss players his PvZ is pretty damn good. He's STILL a favorite over Jaedong if he wins this set - and by quite a good margin at that.
His PvZ is not bad, it's just that looking at Bisu every Protoss player seems to have bad PvZ.
I think he's at 50% for PvZ, which is what Jaedong's ZvP is at I think.
Compared to a lot of Protoss players, Rock is a good player. When comparing Stork who is number 2 in KESPA at the moment to other players of his calibre, his PvZ is worse than Protosses like Bisu, Anytime, Free. I don't see why it would be unfair to rate the second best protoss against some of the best protosses when looking for weaknesses.
When two protosses appeared in the semi-finals, Jaedong already became an underdog. People cheering for Stork who are hopeful for a Jaedong OSL victory aren't really calling Stork a pushover, but its just a lot nicer than the miracle he'd had to pull off against Bisu.
Stork is 15 wins - 11 losses (57.69%) this year in PvZ, and he's taken a fair few losses to savior. Take out those PvZ losses to Savior, and he's managed 14 wins - 7 losses (66.67%), iirc.
His PvZ isn't Bisu level, but to call him the underdog against Jaedong's ZvP is inaccurate and he has not had a terrible year as far as his PvZ goes, particularly when compared to his career average and the career averages of a lot of top Protoss players. To be perfectly honest, given the schedule of making OSL/MSL and playing as a consistent pillar for KHAN in the proleague, keeping a 55+% record is quite an achievement, particularly given he was able show improvement and eventually take a game off Savior in his 1:2 loss. There's also the game he played against Jaedong in the OSL groups to keep in mind.
On December 14 2007 17:08 Ace wrote: Is it me or does tl.net always take things to the extreme?
Stork does not have bad PvZ. In fact, outside of Bisu and compared to a lot of Protoss players his PvZ is pretty damn good. He's STILL a favorite over Jaedong if he wins this set - and by quite a good margin at that.
His PvZ is not bad, it's just that looking at Bisu every Protoss player seems to have bad PvZ.
I think he's at 50% for PvZ, which is what Jaedong's ZvP is at I think.
and a lot of his losses come from Savior, who is the bane of all Protoss users not named Bisu.
50% PvZ is a HUGE accomplishment - has everyone forgotten the days when a toss beating any zerg on a bo3 was considered a miracle?
On December 14 2007 17:08 Ace wrote: Is it me or does tl.net always take things to the extreme?
Stork does not have bad PvZ. In fact, outside of Bisu and compared to a lot of Protoss players his PvZ is pretty damn good. He's STILL a favorite over Jaedong if he wins this set - and by quite a good margin at that.
His PvZ is not bad, it's just that looking at Bisu every Protoss player seems to have bad PvZ.
I think he's at 50% for PvZ, which is what Jaedong's ZvP is at I think.
and a lot of his losses come from Savior, who is the bane of all Protoss users not named Bisu.
50% PvZ is a HUGE accomplishment - has everyone forgotten the days when a toss beating any zerg on a bo3 was considered a miracle?
Uh, it wasn't that bad. In "those days" toss won a hell of a lot more championships than zerg did.
Rooms are now up in PotPlayer. Please no more stream questions, there's a wonderful sticky in the featured threads that will answer all your questions.
steve, i'm assuming you don't really look at other guys naked, so that has to be based off of yourself... and you have one ugly ass and some ugly-ass tits
Amazing play by stork..I loved the stylish Ob snipe. Which allowed his dt to come up and rape the reaver under the swarm. This allowed stork to move in while bisus reavers were at his base.
wow, stork's game plan blew me away. key points: 1. killing all bisu's goons so that he can safely fly around with his 1 reaver. 2. killing the observer so he could snipe the reaver with his DT.
Bisu fielded a smaller ground army, but had double robo reavers. Stork lost more supply in his first zealot-heavy attack, but Stork managed to get about 10 probe kills with a reaver drop. Bisu moved out but met Stork's goon army while not being under swarm.
Bisu should have either attempted either a reaver drop or hid under swarms.
Of course Stork played very optimally given the situation.
On December 14 2007 18:58 lostman wrote: Stork just played better that game, Bisu didnt play bad at all - with that play he would have destroyed any other toss but Stork is something special.
Bisu's micro was pretty freaking sloppy.
But Stork played VERY well. He probably would've taken game one either way.
I think when Stork got about 10 probes with that first reaver, it kinda forced Bisu into all-in mode to do some damage or fall progressively farther behind as the game went on. That's why Bisu made the desperate attack in the middle where mass goons owned him =/
hey guys can u give me a clue why i can not watch in yaoyuan.com/live.php it starts loading and then nothing happens , should i download smth from somewhere. 10x in advance for the help
On December 14 2007 19:00 Ancestral wrote: Stork is a master of using DT.
Most blasphemous thing I've ever heard.
Admission: I'm no master, but what I saw in WCG versus hwasin and now here ... I know Bisu is Ninja Toss, but Stork is no fool with them from what I've seen.
I felt the most decisive battle for game 1 was in the middle, where bisu just lost ALL his reavers for nothing, was he scared of dark swarm ? most if not all of stork's army was dragoons, the dark swarm would help the reaver alot, but no, his reavers must be outside of the darkswarm hais..
On December 14 2007 19:17 diehilde wrote: wow bisu sux nowadays cept for pvz.. :[
bisu doesn't really suck compared to others, just that Stork's overall is top notch, esp he actually found out bisu was transfering units via shuttle, what fucking top notch game sense ! Cmon stork 3-0 bisu and gimme dah 5 pts !
GeLaar..while the positions were favorable for Stork, Bisu's mistake was making nexus too early, without first securing the low ground. Although stork used the positional advantage to force some of bisus goons back to his mins. Had bisu been ready on the low ground with the rest of his army, save 2 goons. He would have been in good position to expand. Because he stayed about his ramp Stork got into the superior position.
Stork starts with earlier robo so has slightly smaller army
Bisu's initial 3 goons + 2 zealots charging into Stork's base fall to Stork's 4 goons and freshly built goons. Undeterred, Bisu opts to expand anyway despite having fewer goons and no reaver. Stork promptly shuts down Bisu's expansion attempt, sets up contain below the ramp and proceeds to expand himself. Bisu tries to elevator his troops out of his base with one shuttle, but an observer catches this and Stork intercepts him in the process and kills off much of Bisu's army. Bisu is now down an expo and has fewer units. He tries to attack but falls quickly to Stork's superior army.
Bisu could easily have played in such a way where the position advantage was not a factor. His first attack which stork handled beautiful was a major factor in him not being ready for storks follow up contain.
come on, that was auto-win for stork after the positions were decided. since stork had the option of either attacking the expansion _or_ dropping the mineral line, bisu had to play with split forces from the first attack.
On December 14 2007 19:20 GeLaar wrote: come on, that was auto-win for stork after the positions were decided. since stork had the option of either attacking the expansion _or_ dropping the mineral line, bisu had to play with split forces from the first attack.
Bisu's decisions that game was questionable. His first attack was pretty much doomed to fail unless Stork forgot to micro or build more units. Then he tries to expo after scouting reaver tech. Stork just responded optimally the way any good protoss should.
all bisu fans ever do is make excuses, why cant u admit stork is just better at the pvp mu? all i ever hear is bisu's not playing well today, or he;s not microing like he always does today, this map doesnt favor bisu, and so on. so much denial...
On December 14 2007 19:20 GeLaar wrote: come on, that was auto-win for stork after the positions were decided. since stork had the option of either attacking the expansion _or_ dropping the mineral line, bisu had to play with split forces from the first attack.
No such thing as \"auto-win\" in pro-gaming.
Exactly. I bet most of you thought Savior auto-win when he took down Bisu\'s second nexus.
On December 14 2007 19:20 GeLaar wrote: come on, that was auto-win for stork after the positions were decided. since stork had the option of either attacking the expansion _or_ dropping the mineral line, bisu had to play with split forces from the first attack.
No such thing as "auto-win" in pro-gaming.
really? and bisu's play at the beginning didn't seem like he was trying to make up for something? to me it looked like he hoped stork would go for the mineral drop too quickly and be low on units, which is why there were zealots in his army...
0z, that was a critical moment i agree but i knew he would lose the moment he charged his first army into stork, dying like 3 zeals and 1 goon for nothing. Like the guy said(sorry i forgot your name), he should have secured his ground forces b4 expanding, why did he even expand when he was low on ground forces ? If bisu repelled stork's forces and had the expo running, the game would be much different.
On December 14 2007 19:20 GeLaar wrote: come on, that was auto-win for stork after the positions were decided. since stork had the option of either attacking the expansion _or_ dropping the mineral line, bisu had to play with split forces from the first attack.
No such thing as "auto-win" in pro-gaming.
really? and bisu's play at the beginning didn't seem like he was trying to make up for something? to me it looked like he hoped stork would go for the mineral drop too quickly and be low on units, which is why there were zealots in his army...
On December 14 2007 19:26 IaniAniaN wrote: Shit, Bisu has to win 3 times in a row, at least win won, holy crap if Stork wins 3-0 I'll be pissed.
i'll be pissed too! Because we have only 3 VOD to watch and because Bisu lost ... good thing is we have a PvZ final, which is the best thing in OSL that can occur! Hope Stork can manage Jaedong though as good as Bisu could!
On December 14 2007 19:26 dragoonkf wrote: 0z, that was a critical moment i agree but i knew he would lose the moment he charged his first army into stork, dying like 3 zeals and 1 goon for nothing. Like the guy said(sorry i forgot your name), he should have secured his ground forces b4 expanding, why did he even expand when he was low on ground forces ? If bisu repelled stork's forces and had the expo running, the game would be much different.
yeah, that first charge was quite futile too, but it was not such a big loss 3 zel 1 goon for 2 goons or something like this
I think the first charge was to see what Stork was up to. By charging up the ramp, Bisu was able to discover the fast robo/reaver and prepare for it accordingly. Then he screwed up by early expoing
Poetic justice is catching up with Bisu after all. Maybe Savior is still the bonjwa and the Starcraft gods don't like the way Bisu keeps beating him? Just a thought to add to the long list of theories.
I just hope Jaedong wipes the floor with Stork's face. This will satisfy me (because imo Jae is much more deserving a StarLeague than Stork) and stop the ZvP imba whining.
On December 14 2007 19:46 BluzMan wrote: I just hope Jaedong wipes the floor with Stork\'s face. This will satisfy me (because imo Jae is much more deserving a StarLeague than Stork) and stop the ZvP imba whining.
goddamn you could just sense that stork was like almost playing around this game cuz there wasn't as much pressure. That double dt drop was brilliant. After that, game was over
On December 14 2007 19:46 Jumbalumba wrote: lol Bisu played so crap. No cannons in any of his mineral areas....
No one would expect such an incredibly fast DT drop timing after scouting fast expo. Its easy to say someone "played like crap" when you can see the whole map. You don't know shit about bw. Bisu had robo ready and obs starting when the DT drop came. Obviously in practice this was usually enough to stop dt drop plays when he scouted his opponent expoing. But storks build was too perfect.
On December 14 2007 19:46 BluzMan wrote: I just hope Jaedong wipes the floor with Stork\'s face. This will satisfy me (because imo Jae is much more deserving a StarLeague than Stork) and stop the ZvP imba whining.
I'd rather see stork winning, and stop all the bs about his pvz sucking.
Jaedong vs Stork, yet another hard predicition to make, altho i'll have to go with stork, his PvZ aint bad seriously, i only see him lose to savior usually.But who will ever know jaedong suddenly will appear with a savior PvZ ? Can't wait.
UpMagiC vs Bisu is another exciting match, but i think bisu should at least take the 3rd place if not he'll seriously be depressed and go into slump.
On December 14 2007 19:55 dragoonkf wrote: Jaedong vs Stork, yet another hard predicition to make, altho i'll have to go with stork, his PvZ aint bad seriously, i only see him lose to savior usually.But who will ever know jaedong suddenly will appear with a savior PvZ ? Can't wait.
UpMagiC vs Bisu is another exciting match, but i think bisu should at least take the 3rd place if not he'll seriously be depressed and go into slump.
Jaedong will get insider advice on how to maul stork from savior
I think part of the reason why Stork dominated those games is that he had a specific build prepared for each of the maps, while Bisu didn't show any creativity in games 2 or 3. He just went with the usual predictable fast expo + macro toss. Stork came out with the perfect counter on both maps and won all three games, strategically rather than with superior mechanics.
On December 14 2007 19:55 dragoonkf wrote: Jaedong vs Stork, yet another hard predicition to make, altho i'll have to go with stork, his PvZ aint bad seriously, i only see him lose to savior usually.But who will ever know jaedong suddenly will appear with a savior PvZ ? Can't wait.
UpMagiC vs Bisu is another exciting match, but i think bisu should at least take the 3rd place if not he'll seriously be depressed and go into slump.
I agree, Stork vs Jaedong is much more exciting than Bisu vs Jaedong... that would have been an awful final. The same with Up vs Bisu, exciting game while Up vs Stork, i guess Up fancy stuff isn't enough against Stork solid pvt.
haha after bisu beat ma jae yoon he said "the tournament will be easier now". stork who stood beside him just smiled with a "you just wait"-look in his eyes.
On December 14 2007 19:57 RaiSad wrote: Go Stock! Win this OSL and be #1 in Power Rank next month!
#1 for what? for 3-0'ing a mirror match or for screwing up in the survivor tournament?
when your fucking 3rd on the power rank and close to 2nd/1st, and win an osl final(if he does), that fucking deserves no1, not to mention his proleague.
On December 14 2007 20:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stork fans can still go fuck themselves
how anyone can like that guy is beyond me
he's good, isn't that enough?
Let me explain something to you Steve. A lot of TL users (ok well some...) are not gay and therefore do not feel the need to judge a Bw player based on looks. We can actually look at how they play. If a player is nerdy, we don't give a shit, as long as they show us inspiring and/or entertaining play. We know this might be hard for you to understand, but how a given players' face/hair/jaw line/ or whatever gay superficial shit you're looking at is not relavent to us. So, that being said, what's wrong with Stork? He comes off as a hard working, sincere, and incredibly intelligent. Did you see how happy his coach was when he won, and the emotional embrace they shared after? It was sincere, which tells you something about him as a person. He seems kind, but at the same time, if you give him shit he isn't so pussy as to not throw it back in your face (the SKT1 game). Is he nerdy? Yes. But he's a Bw player. Who the fuck cares?
On December 14 2007 20:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stork fans can still go fuck themselves
how anyone can like that guy is beyond me
he's good, isn't that enough?
Let me explain something to you Steve. A lot of TL users (ok well some...) are not gay and therefore do not feel the need to judge a Bw player based on looks. We can actually look at how they play. If a player is nerdy, we don't give a shit, as long as they show us inspiring and/or entertaining play. We know this might be hard for you to understand, but how a given players' face/hair/jaw line/ or whatever gay superficial shit you're looking at is not relavent to us. So, that being said, what's wrong with Stork? He comes off as a hard working, sincere, and incredibly intelligent player. He seems kind, but at the same time, if you give him shit he isn't so pussy as to not throw it back in your face (the SKT1 game). Is he nerdy? Yes. But he's a Bw player. Who the fuck cares?
He's just pissed that Bisu lost, if this was a soccer match he'd pour beer on you.
On December 14 2007 20:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stork fans can still go fuck themselves
how anyone can like that guy is beyond me
he's good, isn't that enough?
Let me explain something to you Steve. A lot of TL users (ok well some...) are not gay and therefore do not feel the need to judge a Bw player based on looks. We can actually look at how they play. If a player is nerdy, we don't give a shit, as long as they show us inspiring and/or entertaining play. We know this might be hard for you to understand, but how a given players' face/hair/jaw line/ or whatever gay superficial shit you're looking at is not relavent to us. So, that being said, what's wrong with Stork? He comes off as a hard working, sincere, and incredibly intelligent. Did you see how happy his coach was when he won, and the emotional embrace they shared after? It was sincere, which tells you something about him as a person. He seems kind, but at the same time, if you give him shit he isn't so pussy as to not throw it back in your face (the SKT1 game). Is he nerdy? Yes. But he's a Bw player. Who the fuck cares?
he comes off as a total faggot. i can't stand his personality, or at least what i can gather with this amount of exposure
he is a very good player and he is better than Bisu at PvP, despite his MSL loss. i just can't stand the guy.
Ahaha you must've missed the RO4 Up/Jae thread last week We suffered indignity that day.
Which reminds me... Hey Steve, we're singing "we're the champion" here, why don't you come join? Oh wait, that's right, Bisu got owned like Edward Norton in American History X and you're plenty busy with yourself ATM
On December 14 2007 20:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stork fans can still go fuck themselves
how anyone can like that guy is beyond me
he's good, isn't that enough?
Let me explain something to you Steve. A lot of TL users (ok well some...) are not gay and therefore do not feel the need to judge a Bw player based on looks. We can actually look at how they play. If a player is nerdy, we don't give a shit, as long as they show us inspiring and/or entertaining play. We know this might be hard for you to understand, but how a given players' face/hair/jaw line/ or whatever gay superficial shit you're looking at is not relavent to us. So, that being said, what's wrong with Stork? He comes off as a hard working, sincere, and incredibly intelligent player. He seems kind, but at the same time, if you give him shit he isn't so pussy as to not throw it back in your face (the SKT1 game). Is he nerdy? Yes. But he's a Bw player. Who the fuck cares?
He's just pissed that Bisu lost, if this was a soccer match he'd pour beer on you.
On December 14 2007 20:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: stork fans can still go fuck themselves
how anyone can like that guy is beyond me
Feel the same about Bisu .
So each to his own :p. And this was more about wanting Bisu to lose then for Stork to win, but I'm sympathetic for stork so today was a good day.
Last time Jaedong and Stork met Stork won, was a rly nice game imho, think on Katrina so if thats a sign for the finals should be good. Same with 3rd place match.
That's the only positive thing I am getting out of this - more exciting finals, well, great, I'd rather have had Jaedong proving himself against the master of PvZ. And Stork is not really likeable.
He has excellent PvZ, there's no denying it, but his PvT and PvP aren't so crash hot. It's not that he's necessarily bad at PvT and PvP, but he's very beatable in both.
He's not up there with the Boxer/Oov/Nada/July/Savior class of player.
Maybe Bisu should ask Stork to play Z next time. Boy were those semis shitty- I guess that's what you get when the real final has already happened in the round of 8... /bored
Bonjwa theory doesn't hold because BW superstition doesn't hold. Stork just resoundingly rebuffed that by winning 3:0 in the first place and he'll tear it in half should he win this OSL.
There's also the idea that Bonjwa isn't a crystallised theory yet. Either way, while Bisu has a ways to go in PvP and PvT, he'll be back.
On December 14 2007 22:46 HaXxorIzed wrote: Bonjwa theory doesn't hold because BW superstition doesn't hold. Stork just resoundingly rebuffed that by winning 3:0 in the first place and he'll tear it in half should he win this OSL.
There's also the idea that Bonjwa isn't a crystallised theory yet. Either way, while Bisu has a ways to go in PvP and PvT, he'll be back.
Ok, firstly: If you call Bisu bonjwa or not is a matter of preference. Secondly: If you DO think the label applies to him, you can choose to believe in this theory which predicts the following: Everyone to whom the label applies will win three out of four subsequent MSLs and will win an OSL only after he won his third MSL, not earlier. The predictions of PoP made in that thread still hold:
*Update* Predictions: 1. Bisu will win the next MSL. 2. Bisu will not win the current OSL. 3. However Bisu will grab the OSL following the next MSL's finals. 4. In two MSL, another new bonjwa will take over and win his first starleague ever.
The theory would have been seriously challenged if something like a Bisu vs. Jaedong final had come to pass, as Bisu losing a BO5 to a zerg is highly unlikely at the time being. To reiterate: It is not the theory which makes someone bonjwa, it is a theory which apparently applies to everyone who is called bonjwa, for what reason-o-ever.
man I worked my way up from lb rank 90 to 60 in ~3 weeks only to lose them all today -____- oh well. Now I'm looking forward to seeing a (hope it will be epic) PvZ final :D
While this semi was a rape, I loved Stork's play so much, especially that Persona game. I had no idea how he had so many fuckn Dragoons. Oooo It was awesome. Felt like I saw Protoss Oov.
Anyways, here's some spare info I dunno where to put.
Bisu plays Up on Fantasy II, Kat, Blue, Persona, Fan.
Jaedong and Stork is Persona, Katrina, Fantasy, BlueStorm, persona.
And Stork said this after game.
- Last week watching Up lose 0-3 to Jaedong, he reminded me of myself last season. I know that feeling and I didn't want to lose like that. I'm really happy I won 3-0.
- Persona was the map I had the hardest time on, and go figure Bisu uses a build I never fought against. In Fantasy and Blue Storm, I had the build lead so I think that lead to my victory.
- When I first attacked on Persona, I found out he went dual robo. If he immediately counter rushed, It would have been a very difficult situation, but I bought time well and was able to win the center fight.
- Originally, in Set2, I was gonna take my nat and do a speed zealot reaver hit. However, with the 1-0 lead, I changed my plans. The Contain move worked well so I was able to win.
- Set 3. You blocked the 2 gate well. --With a lot of practice, I developed the know-how to stop 2 gate. The build was a counter 2 gate build so I just controlled hard trying to not take damage.
- Because you were fighting the guy who beat you in the MSL finals, wasn't it intimidating?
-- I wasn't particularly worried that it was Bisu. I was really worried about what strategy was coming on Persona (Seems Stork had special attention on this map). I don't think my MSL finals defeat is fully avenged yet. A Finals and Semis are different. I'd think I'd have to meet him again in the finals and beat him to say I've had my revenge. But really, I don't consciously go after revenge. It's really a thing of the past.
- YOU MEET JAEDONGERrrrrrrrrrrr.
-- This could seem like a complaint, but Persona I think is the hardest map to PvZ on of the current pool. Swarm is a zerg spell and nice for them. It's also set 1 and 5. The Protoss popularity . I think comming up from a harder scenario to win is a better way to gain recognition. Besides using Persona twice, everything else is nice. I want to overturn Persona in a dramatic win.
- Weak v Zerg reputation>
-- I think I'm weak only in broadcast. I do well in practice. Playing on a big stage like the finals, due to the nervousness, I might not be able to showcase the best of my abilities, I'll practice hard and prepare.
- Who helped you practice? -- There were so many that came to me to help me. I am so thankful. Reach, Anytime, Soo, and Best, all offered to help me. On top of that, Backho and BestGod helped. Jangbi on my team helped too. So many others helped me too and I am so thankful.
- Jaedong, attempting the royal road, is not easy.
-- I'm not stressing over it. I have a great momentum right now, so I am trying to ride my momentum to the finals. My debut Starleague was Ever 2005. I got eliminated then, but 2 years later, the same company is holding a SL and since I am in the finals, I want to win no matter what.
- If you had to analyze JD?
-- He definately has his own style. He plays very Zergy ( -_________-;;; ) He macros well, fights well, and makes good builds. It's going to take a lot of thought before I approach the games.
- You have less practice time than JD.
-- He might be happy, but I am probably going to practice for PL first. Practicing for 5 games shoudl take about 2-3 days. I think overpracticing won't help too much either.
- Final words?
-- Looking on the internet, there were talks of Player Awards for the year (or Player of the Year??), Because I don't have a title, they said the chances of me getting an(the?) award were slim. No one really acknowledges the WCG win so it's hard. After seeing those comments, my ambitions increased. I'd have to win this to have a shot at the Award. And today, so many people came, and their cheers really helped my game. I hope for the same in the finals.
Yeahhhhhh. Jaedong vs Stork... I am gonna love this finals. I loved both players since they were rookies. ~_~ OMG SICK.
wow... i really thought Bisu was gonna do better i really can't stand Stork. but Jaedong vs. Stork would probably leave a more entertaining final than Bisu vs. Jaedong (one sided rape).
-- I wasn't particularly worried that it was Bisu. I was really worried about what strategy was coming on Persona (Seems Stork had special attention on this map). I don't think my MSL finals defeat is fully avenged yet. A Finals and Semis are different. I'd think I'd have to meet him again in the finals and beat him to say I've had my revenge. But really, I don't consciously go after revenge. It's really a thing of the past.
Yeaaaahhhh... thing of the past.. isnt a man to hold a grudge .... *does a FBH*
Stork, wow.. i was really utterly pissed like 5 hours after this thing ended but he made really small advantages into huge plays.. allthough Bisu seemed out of it today, that dosnt take anything away from Stork.
Now that Stork seems so intent on winning i really do freaking hope Jaedong trashes the guy 3-0 or gets a wild 0-2 to 3-2 comeback to completly break Storks heart.. and then Oov comes running with the Shirt.... gawd damn stork.. ruined my day.
On December 15 2007 00:20 SteffanBDybdal wrote: -- I wasn't particularly worried that it was Bisu. I was really worried about what strategy was coming on Persona (Seems Stork had special attention on this map). I don't think my MSL finals defeat is fully avenged yet. A Finals and Semis are different. I'd think I'd have to meet him again in the finals and beat him to say I've had my revenge. But really, I don't consciously go after revenge. It's really a thing of the past.
Yeaaaahhhh... thing of the past.. isnt a man to hold a grudge .... *does a FBH*
Stork, wow.. i was really utterly pissed like 5 hours after this thing ended but he made really small advantages into huge plays.. allthough Bisu seemed out of it today, that dosnt take anything away from Stork.
Now that Stork seems so intent on winning i really do freaking hope Jaedong trashes the guy 3-0 or gets a wild 0-2 to 3-2 comeback to completly break Storks heart.. and then Oov comes running with the Shirt.... gawd damn stork.. ruined my day.
His fanboy heart is gonna be 10x more broken when Stork wins. I honestly can't wait. It's so cool back then when legends fought etc, but now, two rookies I used to love have become seasoned Aces. And my favorite two former-rookies are in a OSL final facing off?
On December 15 2007 00:20 SteffanBDybdal wrote: -- I wasn't particularly worried that it was Bisu. I was really worried about what strategy was coming on Persona (Seems Stork had special attention on this map). I don't think my MSL finals defeat is fully avenged yet. A Finals and Semis are different. I'd think I'd have to meet him again in the finals and beat him to say I've had my revenge. But really, I don't consciously go after revenge. It's really a thing of the past.
Yeaaaahhhh... thing of the past.. isnt a man to hold a grudge .... *does a FBH*
Stork, wow.. i was really utterly pissed like 5 hours after this thing ended but he made really small advantages into huge plays.. allthough Bisu seemed out of it today, that dosnt take anything away from Stork.
Now that Stork seems so intent on winning i really do freaking hope Jaedong trashes the guy 3-0 or gets a wild 0-2 to 3-2 comeback to completly break Storks heart.. and then Oov comes running with the Shirt.... gawd damn stork.. ruined my day.
wow so much hate
I didnt like Stork to begin with but Oov/Boxer/Nal_rA has allways been the ones that kept me comming back for more in the good old days and they are still the ones that gets me up of my chair when they win.. and when Stork did the FBH to Oov after that Ace match.. i will root for who ever he faces.. most likely for a year or so until i forget..
Thats just how it is.. love the guy or hate the guy.. he played well tonight, dosnt change the fact that my wishes from Santa this year will be a Nintendo Wii second and Stork crying on stage, infront of millions of people after a Jaedong heart wrenching victory as the number uno wish.
But on that note i havnt been that hyped up to see a match as i were today, not a big fan of eighter player (i like to watch Bisu play as he is a very likeable player) but the fact that Stork messed with Oov made me emotional about SC, cant say ive been that since EVER 04 or something.
Cant wait until the OSL final.. me and two of my mates decided to watch it together this year in our common hatered of Stork.. just pray its going to tilt the way i like it next time around.
- Who helped you practice? -- There were so many that came to me to help me. I am so thankful. Reach, Anytime, Soo, and Best, all offered to help me. On top of that, Backho and BestGod helped. Jangbi on my team helped too. So many others helped me too and I am so thankful.
wtf is Anytime and Reach doing over there?? Should be helping JD.
On December 15 2007 01:20 anch wrote: - Who helped you practice? -- There were so many that came to me to help me. I am so thankful. Reach, Anytime, Soo, and Best, all offered to help me. On top of that, Backho and BestGod helped. Jangbi on my team helped too. So many others helped me too and I am so thankful.
wtf is Anytime and Reach doing over there?? Should be helping JD.
Getting Stork to beat Bisu is helping JD actually.
On December 14 2007 19:46 BluzMan wrote: I just hope Jaedong wipes the floor with Stork's face. This will satisfy me (because imo Jae is much more deserving a StarLeague than Stork) and stop the ZvP imba whining.
I'd rather see stork winning, and stop all the bs about his pvz sucking.
On December 14 2007 20:01 Ace wrote: Stork's PvP has ALWAYS been insane, why is anyone surprised?
On December 15 2007 02:09 IaniAniaN wrote: Is Bisu officially slumping is all non-pvz games? I mean he's no losing like a noob, but he isn't winning like the favorite he should be.
Can we please stop with the everyone is slumping stuff, I feel like everytime the last starleague winner loses two games in a row he is slumping.
Also Bisu just made top2 in msl and top4 in osl how is that not very good?
edit: really impressive by stork, that dt harass in game 3 was pretty neat.
He seems like the normal niceguy nerd when he is in front of the camere, should probably practice how to act when there is a camera on him a bit more.
it is like a war of words between savior fans and bisu fans. If savior beat bisu and stork in semis, jaedong is still too strong in zvz. glad to see some underdogs are in final again.
and IMO i think his celebration is good, omg actually i like it if soccer players celebrate when they score a goal, why cant someone celebrate winning a Game?
Jaedong certainly has had more time to practice (only ZvP since the finals could only be ZvP), so hopefully we'll get to see a Jaedong with a stepped-up ZvP!
On December 15 2007 02:48 JensOfSweden wrote: Worst semi-finals ever TT
Stork played very good though and Bisu lacks in PvP obviously
Thats why Bisu won vs stork in the MSL finals during the summer right? Bisu got fucked with positions 2nd game, and I don't know what he was thinking going 2gate 3rd game when it didn't work 2nd game.
Damn Stork. Its not that I like BIsu or hate Stork, but Jaedong vs Stork sounds boring to me. They have met up a few times already... lemme check tlpd... twice and I didn't like either of their games. Both are awesome, but both are playing their weaker matchups which sucks. Out of the 16 possible finals, 4 looked boring to me. The 3 TvTs and Stork vs Jaedong and this happens T.T
On December 15 2007 09:00 kNyTTyM wrote: Damn Stork. Its not that I like BIsu or hate Stork, but Jaedong vs Stork sounds boring to me. They have met up a few times already... lemme check tlpd... twice and I didn't like either of their games. Both are awesome, but both are playing their weaker matchups which sucks. Out of the 16 possible finals, 4 looked boring to me. The 3 TvTs and Stork vs Jaedong and this happens T.T
You didn't like their last game? What more can you ask for in a PvZ really, or do you simply have to see the bisu build in every PvZ game nowadays?
Stork vs Jaedong is gonna be intense. They both have a very aggresive PvZ/ZvP.
Stork is one of the most standard but heavy pressure PvZ's I know. That man isn't afraid to move out with 1 gate of units. Jaedong - needless to talk about his aggresion. This is a million times better than Bisu/Jaedong finals imo.
On December 15 2007 09:00 kNyTTyM wrote: Damn Stork. Its not that I like BIsu or hate Stork, but Jaedong vs Stork sounds boring to me. They have met up a few times already... lemme check tlpd... twice and I didn't like either of their games. Both are awesome, but both are playing their weaker matchups which sucks. Out of the 16 possible finals, 4 looked boring to me. The 3 TvTs and Stork vs Jaedong and this happens T.T
Actually, Bisu vs Jaedong sounds boring to me.
Bisu is strong at PvZ and Jaedong is weak at ZvP. That means it should be rape.
But Stork vs Jaedong would insure a better matchup.
On December 15 2007 02:48 JensOfSweden wrote: Worst semi-finals ever TT
Stork played very good though and Bisu lacks in PvP obviously
Just because your favorite player lost, huh? Bisu didn't play badly. Stork just played overwhelmingly well.
Bisu doesn't suck at PvP. He beat Stork in MSL finals, remember? Except, Stork was untouchable this time around.
On December 15 2007 09:19 SuperJongMan wrote: Didn't they meet in WCG? And Star 256?
TLPD doesn't have every game.
Stork vs Jaedong is gonna be intense. They both have a very aggresive PvZ/ZvP.
Stork is one of the most standard but heavy pressure PvZ's I know. That man isn't afraid to move out with 1 gate of units. Jaedong - needless to talk about his aggresion. This is a million times better than Bisu/Jaedong finals imo.
This really is true, if Bisu had won then there wouldn't really have been a finals; having seen the caliber of Jaedong's ZvP, an upset would not have been likely. (Contrary to popular belief, Stork > Bisu is not an upset, Stork is a PvP rapist). Jaedong vs Stork gives both players a chance to win, as they both have around equal statistics in the matchup (Jaedong 50% Stork 51%).
When JaeDong won Star 256 tour in his way he defeated Stork in 2 to 1 back then ;] ofc in the finals he won JangBi 2-1 too, so there's more than hope ;>
On December 15 2007 09:19 SuperJongMan wrote: Didn't they meet in WCG? And Star 256?
TLPD doesn't have every game.
Stork vs Jaedong is gonna be intense. They both have a very aggresive PvZ/ZvP.
Stork is one of the most standard but heavy pressure PvZ's I know. That man isn't afraid to move out with 1 gate of units. Jaedong - needless to talk about his aggresion. This is a million times better than Bisu/Jaedong finals imo.
This really is true, if Bisu had won then there wouldn't really have been a finals; having seen the caliber of Jaedong's ZvP, an upset would not have been likely. (Contrary to popular belief, Stork > Bisu is not an upset, Stork is a PvP rapist). Jaedong vs Stork gives both players a chance to win, as they both have around equal statistics in the matchup (Jaedong 50% Stork 51%).
In WCG, Stork met up with July with the second best ZvP and beat him 2-1.
On December 14 2007 19:42 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Give all credit to stork this game. His build was an absolutely flawless reaction to bisus build. Stork could not have played more perfectly.
He was miles ahead and did a typical dt-drop build which is supposed to counter early zealforge exp. Nothing special about the build, although his micro was impressive and good anticipation with offensive pylon. Not the best one. 1st game was Stork's most impressive in my opinion. After that, it was just psychology. Just look at Bisu's face before the 2nd game. He looks totally devastated, as if he lost his fighting spirit we all know he had. Even though I was careful not to check for spoilers, I already knew Stork had won after that game. I'm not really a hardcore Bisu fan and I'm glad it turned out like this, because it will make both fight about 3rd place and 1st place more interesting. BUT, I can really identify myself with Bisu and when he cries, I cry . One of the saddest semifinals ever.
I liked this series. The only reason people are saying it was disappointing was the score. Game 2 wasn't great, but game 1 and game 3 I found very entertaining.
On December 15 2007 12:19 fight_or_flight wrote: Imagine the psychological aspect when bisu saw stork was purple in the third game...wow.
How would he know unless he checked the player list? Tab+shift ftw.
As for the result, good stuff. I was rooting for Stork ever since he lost to Bisu in the summer MSL. Those were hot games and these, while not quite as epic, were also pretty good. I'm not sure why people are saying Stork won game 2 due to map positions. While the potential was there he never was able to take advantage of his bridge choke or the fact his ramp is next to his nexus. Am I missing something? It was Bisu's fault he got contained. The peculiarities of the map didn't come into play at all. Same outcome on any map with ramps and close positions.
Jaedong vs. Stork = coin flip, whoever is on that day really.
Game 1 was simply Stork's better understanding of the darkswarm's advantages (Bisu in various situations had goons fighting zeals under swarm... wtf?) and his balsy harrass-movements. Stork simply out played him.
Game 2 Bisu got the worst possible position ever. 11 is horrible because of the possiblity of a reaver drop and reaver/goon attack, which stork abused. I think it would have been different or atleast much closer if Bisu got somehwere else.
Game 3.... Stork just pwnt him with his awsome zeal/goon micro to get the advantage, dt drop and just lead the game.
On December 16 2007 09:14 Live2Win wrote: To be honest luck was on Stork's side too.
Game 1 was simply Stork's better understanding of the darkswarm's advantages (Bisu in various situations had goons fighting zeals under swarm... wtf?) and his balsy harrass-movements. Stork simply out played him.
Game 2 Bisu got the worst possible position ever. 11 is horrible because of the possiblity of a reaver drop and reaver/goon attack, which stork abused. I think it would have been different or atleast much closer if Bisu got somehwere else.
Game 3.... Stork just pwnt him with his awsome zeal/goon micro to get the advantage, dt drop and just lead the game.
Sounds to me like Stork owned him in 2 games and have a fortunate position in one.
On December 16 2007 09:22 MYM.Testie wrote: PvP at that level is so luck oriented it is disgusting.
reallY? o _O can u elaborate testieeee
He means in PvP it becomes nearly impossible to recover from a game breaking thing like a disadvantageous opening.
its like that in all matchups though if you think about it, sure units can be more advantageous vs diff units but its the same idea, you have to goad them into attacking you or counter and do eco damage.
On December 16 2007 09:22 MYM.Testie wrote: PvP at that level is so luck oriented it is disgusting.
reallY? o _O can u elaborate testieeee
ZvZ is even more luck oriented. Mirror matchups are always hard. Terran has a bit more variety in units, so TvT is maybe a bit different. (marines, tanks, wraiths, goliaths, vultures)
On December 16 2007 09:22 MYM.Testie wrote: PvP at that level is so luck oriented it is disgusting.
reallY? o _O can u elaborate testieeee
ZvZ is even more luck oriented. Mirror matchups are always hard. Terran has a bit more variety in units, so TvT is maybe a bit different. (marines, tanks, wraiths, goliaths, vultures)
i see. but i always thought that just zvz was the most luck oreinted mirror mu cuz ... i dunno in pvp and tvt a bad BO is more easily overcome by macro or faster tech or something other stuff :l
On December 17 2007 07:41 MaGic~PhiL wrote: can someone p.m me the name of the song thats in all of these games ? Its at the beginning... something along the lines of.. lalalal.. sorrow.. thx
EPT![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/staff/DJEtterStyle/EVER.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/SplashImage.asp?realFile=FFPHOT20071202024008002.JPG)
HerO). Stork on the other hand has been having fun destroying tosses all over the place, accumulating a 11-3 record.
GGPlay
UpMagic
) Time for Stork's GodToss mode! 
It should be quite an addicting series, if Stork doesn't pwn Bisu too hard that is. There is of course one extra element...though Stork's PvP does appear to be superior and more consistent to Bisu's PvP, Stork hasn't performed as well as expected in games that are very important, whereas Bisu, well, let's just say he answered that question the moment he became prominent (3-0'ing the Jesus Zerg while making it clear in Savior's FPVODs that he had utterly disoriented Savior?). 
). ![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/SplashImage.asp?realFile=FFPHOT20071202024119001.JPG)
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>>>>>> ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/59.jpg)
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stork will look like this after Bisu pwns him 
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/free/1197496691_1.jpg)
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Someone should have created a "hype" thread or something rather than putting it here...
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We suffered indignity that day.
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