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On November 23 2007 20:36 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2007 20:34 teamsolid wrote:On November 23 2007 20:30 M2 wrote:On November 23 2007 20:25 teamsolid wrote:
Seriously... how do you counter Savior's denial of info/hydra timing push build? It's sort of like a guessing game. It could be one of four different openings from the zerg: 2 hatch muta, hydra timing push, 4 hatch greedy expo build, or just normal 3 hatch.
If you mass cannon up the front before main vs anything other than hydra timing, you're at a huge disadvantage vs 3 hatch standard build and auto-loss vs 2 hatch muta or 4 hatch expansions. If you cannon your main first, then you lose vs hydra timing like what happened here. But the risk for zerg is almost the same coz if the toss guess right, zerg is dead Zerg isn't dead at all. Remember Geometry? Savior got right back into the game after his hydra push and still put up a great fight. And guessing right is like 1/4 chance, that's pretty bad odds for the P =/ are you remembering the same game as me, cause i remember savior couldnt gain any ground and was pushed into his base and raped, even with his cute drop attempts savior tried the only thing that could get him back into the game, and it failed
Yea, I remember. That game was like 20+ min long I think. He wouldn't have lasted that long if he was already dead.
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If savior wins another game he will propebly meet stork in a semifinal. Savior vs Stork is 5-1 so far this year and Storks PvZ hasnt showed signs of improving imo. I would give Savior atleast a 50% chance to reach the final. I hope Jaedong doesnt make it there =( Upmagic vs Savior bo5 would be awesome.
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On November 23 2007 20:38 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2007 20:36 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:On November 23 2007 20:34 teamsolid wrote:On November 23 2007 20:30 M2 wrote:On November 23 2007 20:25 teamsolid wrote:
Seriously... how do you counter Savior's denial of info/hydra timing push build? It's sort of like a guessing game. It could be one of four different openings from the zerg: 2 hatch muta, hydra timing push, 4 hatch greedy expo build, or just normal 3 hatch.
If you mass cannon up the front before main vs anything other than hydra timing, you're at a huge disadvantage vs 3 hatch standard build and auto-loss vs 2 hatch muta or 4 hatch expansions. If you cannon your main first, then you lose vs hydra timing like what happened here. But the risk for zerg is almost the same coz if the toss guess right, zerg is dead Zerg isn't dead at all. Remember Geometry? Savior got right back into the game after his hydra push and still put up a great fight. And guessing right is like 1/4 chance, that's pretty bad odds for the P =/ are you remembering the same game as me, cause i remember savior couldnt gain any ground and was pushed into his base and raped, even with his cute drop attempts savior tried the only thing that could get him back into the game, and it failed Yea, I remember. That game was like 20+ min long I think. He wouldn't have lasted that long if he was already dead.
sorry, read my edit
only reason game was that long was that protoss played defensive just in case of drops or extra hydra waves (all his cannons were down). didn't help that it was cross pos on geometry either
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Braavos36375 Posts
On November 23 2007 20:38 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2007 20:36 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:On November 23 2007 20:34 teamsolid wrote:On November 23 2007 20:30 M2 wrote:On November 23 2007 20:25 teamsolid wrote:
Seriously... how do you counter Savior's denial of info/hydra timing push build? It's sort of like a guessing game. It could be one of four different openings from the zerg: 2 hatch muta, hydra timing push, 4 hatch greedy expo build, or just normal 3 hatch.
If you mass cannon up the front before main vs anything other than hydra timing, you're at a huge disadvantage vs 3 hatch standard build and auto-loss vs 2 hatch muta or 4 hatch expansions. If you cannon your main first, then you lose vs hydra timing like what happened here. But the risk for zerg is almost the same coz if the toss guess right, zerg is dead Zerg isn't dead at all. Remember Geometry? Savior got right back into the game after his hydra push and still put up a great fight. And guessing right is like 1/4 chance, that's pretty bad odds for the P =/ are you remembering the same game as me, cause i remember savior couldnt gain any ground and was pushed into his base and raped, even with his cute drop attempts savior tried the only thing that could get him back into the game, and it failed Yea, I remember. That game was like 20+ min long I think. He wouldn't have lasted that long if he was already dead.
No, there are plenty of times a player lasts long but is dead the entire game. Pros play to secure a win, so often they will push their eco advantage, waiting to make absolutely sure when they move out that they will win.
How many times have you seen a player who is ahead feint attack, force sunkens/cannons or whatever defense, then take another base, macro hard, and finish with a ridiculously overkill attack at minute 25? Happens a lot.
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For stork and jaedong most likely they ll reach semis, however I dont think that we should count bisu and hwasin out yet so easy
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Ah well, Savior's build was perfectly set up to take out Bisu on that map. Next week I'll just have to hope Bisu prevents any timing pushes and manages to win straight up.
Aside from that, only Up vs Hwasin went in a possibly unexpected direction. Looks like all of the games were won or lost on good build orders (Upmagic's, Jaedong scouting the fast refinery, Savior denying Bisu scouting and the proxy hatch, etc). Now I have a whole week of waiting and hoping Bisu can stay in the OSL :/
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On November 23 2007 19:55 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2007 19:52 IaniAniaN wrote:On November 23 2007 19:47 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:On November 23 2007 19:45 IaniAniaN wrote:
Savior has to rely on a timing attack as I thought he would, but he won't pull it off on the maps with more than 2 players, he can't take the same risk and will be forced to play more standard. I dunno, i think it's ironic how you're pinning savior down as a one-trick pony vs bisu when all bisu ever does against protoss is his epononymous build EDIT: flameguard: in serious games, that is I'm just sayin' that this build wouldn't be much on Zodiac for example, because of the large potential failure rate. Savior played in no way with thoughts going ahead into the mid-late game, that proxy would be a huge lyability and get him raped later on like against Stork on this same map. Besides, I'll be convinced when I see this happen on Fantasy or Katrina, for now I still doubt Savior's ability to take Bisu straight up standard. i dunno, he's already shown his ability to innovate new standard builds (4gas muta) which happens to be even more suited for the 4player maps. i dont think you can be too certain in predicting that bisu>savior straightup already..
I wouldn't say 4 gas muta is too innovative. It was innovative when Savior used it vs Nal_Ra on Longinus II about a year ago, but went relatively unknown. That build is power, and I've even won with it a couple of times.
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Savior totally fooled Bisu this time.
its ok Bisu, you cant beat Savior all the time. 8:2 now... make it 10:2 next week. gogo Bisu!!
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On November 23 2007 20:26 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2007 20:23 Vivi57 wrote:
Flash had that game, you could see it on stork's face when he saw the line of scvs coming out.
Stork didn't win that game, flash lost it with his crappy bunker rush. Bunker rushing that late (after factory complete) is 50/50 against 14nex anyway, no way you can say anyone "had" the game before the first micro fight
I think its a lot bigger chance than 50/50. No way boxer would f that up.
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yakii
Korea (South)1448 Posts
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Hungary11291 Posts
Ace jobs on Vods as usual. I'd say all games are quite recommendable, with Savior vs. Bisu sticking out for an brilliant counter-strategy.
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Don't get too excited, Savior might eventually lose. I'm geussing the same thing will happen as it happened in Reach vs Stork. Everyone thought Stork was going to win but Reach won, and everyone was like "Duh why didn't belive in yu mantoss?" Then everyone thought Reach was going to win but stork stormed him away. Besides these are just the first games, Bisu may as well come back.
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Is it really necessary to put "RESURECTION" or other random nicknames instead of who actually won in the results? Sorry maybe its not a big deal for most ppl but I don't follow sc enough to know what that means and had to search through the pages to find the winner all i wanna see is the results 
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Go back to warcraft 3 then, we don't need wcreplays nubs here. The last thing we need now is people from the warcraft scene making our highly advanced starcraft scene more primitive and stupid.
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k k awesome to see savior beat his nemesis. On his birthday too!  What a great present. Seriously some people on this site were talking like it was impossible for savior to beat him again. I like bisu too but of course Savior was going to get him again at some point. He probably has spent half his time practicing with bisu in mind! So good to see Jaedong win as well, that kid has got some class. Its going to be really interesting next week.
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lol savior was trying so hard to pull it together u can tell. until now he's never changed his play style to counter a specific opponent. the anti-bisu build is so...unsaviorlike. well we thought the same about bisu's antisavior build when it came out but it's turned out to be a pretty effective bo vs all zergs. dunno about this build tho
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8748 Posts
Why would you write "resurrection" instead of the result? Sucky thread creator.
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There's a big fucking picture of Savior with the words "ressurection" over it. And considering saviors trouble with bisu, who do you think won the game? I like the OP, good job, even though I did'nt consider Savior to be in much of a slump in the first place.
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8748 Posts
On November 24 2007 00:59 Pistasj wrote:
There's a big fucking picture of Savior with the words "ressurection" over it.
Yes, so is that the new way to report results? Post a picture of each player with a word attached and then write the winning words in a spoiler tag? Sounds pointless to me.
On November 24 2007 00:59 Pistasj wrote:
And considering saviors trouble with bisu, who do you think won the game?
Considering that, you'd think Bisu would won the game. I don't see how this is relevant.
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EPT
