EPT
[ASL16] Ro4 Day 2
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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sysen
26 Posts
(but i kinda think that effort is sligthly ahead atm) | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines525 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1000 Posts
On the other hand, there is always a possibility for a -ms- | ||
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TornadoSteve
1000 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
Go Mini. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey710 Posts
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Baamze
16 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
but i'd give the edge to Effort, he's just a bit more solid atm | ||
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria478 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7764 Posts
 A bit of LRing please  | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
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Simplistik
1959 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
Aaah, gl to both! | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
On October 05 2023 19:12 whylessness wrote: studio looks packed af As it should be! | ||
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey710 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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earob84
Germany175 Posts
On October 05 2023 19:19 Glioburd wrote: I love effOrt, I want effOrt to win his semi-final, but... I also want a Protoss to win the ASL, I also don't want a ZvZ final. Aaah, gl to both! Exactly same feeling! Heart effort, head mini | ||
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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Sorusaba
272 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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Sorusaba
272 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States7760 Posts
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Kaal
Djibouti2512 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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sophisticated
58 Posts
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kaspa84
Brazil169 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey710 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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sophisticated
58 Posts
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Kaal
Djibouti2512 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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ggsimida
1141 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
being down 0:3 vs mini in a bo7 has got to be terrifying. bro will coin flip you 3 times in a row then play safe in game 7... | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21508 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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Sorusaba
272 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia358 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
holy fuck | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:36 Rainalcar wrote: Effort is terrible, how the hell is he in the semi honestly i'm quite shocked, he was doing well in other spon games | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
LEGEND OF THE FALL, LETS FUCKING GO | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7760 Posts
. Disappointed but happy for Mini. Let's hope Soulkey puts up a better fight. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
Poll: Recommend Mini vs EffOrt Game 4? Yes (16) No (7) If you have time (2) 25 total votes Your vote: Recommend Mini vs EffOrt Game 4? Poll: Recommend Mini vs EffOrt Game 5? Yes (17) No (3) If you have time (2) 22 total votes Your vote: Recommend Mini vs EffOrt Game 5? Poll: Recommend Mini vs EffOrt Game 6? Yes (9) If you have time (7) No (5) 21 total votes Your vote: Recommend Mini vs EffOrt Game 6? | ||
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Kaal
Djibouti2512 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:36 konadora wrote: i DID NOT expect Mini to 4-0 Effort holy fuck I kinda expected 4-1. Mini, imo, has played significantly better starcraft than everyone else in this tournament except for rush and soulkey. I think that effort had mostly squeaked by most of his games. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey710 Posts
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Lovethelord
46 Posts
PvZ is going to be awesome!!!!! | ||
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:36 Rainalcar wrote: Effort is terrible, how the hell is he in the semi action was on the verge of retiring before his match with effort. keep in mind, before this series effort had the highest winrate in zvp of any zerg. | ||
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kaspa84
Brazil169 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia358 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:40 whylessness wrote: action was on the verge of retiring before his match with effort. keep in mind, before this series effort had the highest winrate in zvp of any zerg. lol :D All the more, this is the worst performance by a Z in a best of 7 ZvP I've ever seen. How do you lose 4:0 as Z? Remarkable | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
"i don't like to meet the same player twice, because my mind games and strategies dont seem to work the second time." "my goal for this tournament was the Semi-Finals, but after qualifying for Semi-Finals, I started getting greedy to win it all. That made me even more motivated for the win." "Thankfully I won my first 4 games, so I can keep my next 3 builds a secret until the finals." "Honestly, I think Soulkey is a very tough opponent, so I have to prepare even harder for him." "Thank you all my fans who came down to support me. I even heard that the tickets for today's matches were sold out pretty quick. Thank you to all the other players for helping me, and for my girlfriend for supporting me." | ||
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:42 konadora wrote: "honestly i did not expect to win 4-0, so i'm glad with the results" "i don't like to meet the same player twice, because my mind games and strategies dont seem to work the second time." "my goal for this tournament was the Semi-Finals, but after qualifying for Semi-Finals, I started getting greedy to win it all. That made me even more motivated for the win." "Thankfully I won my first 4 games, so I can keep my next 3 builds a secret until the finals." "Honestly, I think Soulkey is a very tough opponent, so I have to prepare even harder for him." "Thank you all my fans who came down to support me. I even heard that the tickets for today's matches were sold out pretty quick. Thank you to all the other players for helping me, and for my girlfriend for supporting me." based mini . thanks for the translation | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21508 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:40 whylessness wrote: Well that Effort certainly did not show up today, this looked pretty bad ><action was on the verge of retiring before his match with effort. keep in mind, before this series effort had the highest winrate in zvp of any zerg. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
Even back in KeSPA days EffOrt had a lot of trouble facing Bisu (best PvZer at the time) as well. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
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TMNT
2530 Posts
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CeJo1
31 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:42 konadora wrote: "honestly i did not expect to win 4-0, so i'm glad with the results" "i don't like to meet the same player twice, because my mind games and strategies dont seem to work the second time." "my goal for this tournament was the Semi-Finals, but after qualifying for Semi-Finals, I started getting greedy to win it all. That made me even more motivated for the win." "Thankfully I won my first 4 games, so I can keep my next 3 builds a secret until the finals." "Honestly, I think Soulkey is a very tough opponent, so I have to prepare even harder for him." "Thank you all my fans who came down to support me. I even heard that the tickets for today's matches were sold out pretty quick. Thank you to all the other players for helping me, and for my girlfriend for supporting me." Thank you for this translation dude | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
 https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/107968231 https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/107968164 | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey710 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:47 TMNT wrote: The funny thing is his win rate online is not that good, less than 50% vs the top Zergs. I think he's only 43% vs Soulkey this year. Everything just falls in place for him this series. Tbh as good as Effort is, today is really major proleague vs k-league. Prep does matter a lot on a BO7 series. | ||
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RJBTV
194 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:47 TMNT wrote: The funny thing is his win rate online is not that good, less than 50% vs the top Zergs. I think he's only 43% vs Soulkey this year. Everything just falls in place for him this series. Tbh as good as Effort is, today is really major proleague vs k-league. Mini's 2023 stats against the top zergs: Mincheol Kim (Z) 33 wins 55 losses 37.5% Sanghyun Park (Z) 75 wins 85 losses 46.9% Jaedong (Z) 45 wins 35 losses 56.3% Kim Jeong-woo (Z) 25 wins 21 losses 54.3% Seongdae Kim (Z) 13 wins, 8 losses 61.9% Kim Myeong-woon (Z) 50 wins 42 losses 54.3% Jo Il-jang (Z) 46 wins 49 losses 48.4% 287 wins - 295 losses winrate 49,31% | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:13 RJBTV wrote: Mini's 2023 stats against the top zergs: Mincheol Kim (Z) 33 wins 55 losses 37.5% In the finals Mini's gonna have his work cut out for him. Soulkey seems to have a read on him. | ||
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RJBTV
194 Posts
On October 05 2023 21:22 Magic Powers wrote: In the finals Mini's gonna have his work cut out for him. Soulkey seems to have a read on him. Soulkey performs best under massive amounts of pressure. Soulkey also plays the most brainy zerg. Two things I think Mini is worst again because he is a limit tester. Limit testers tend to overwhelm with pressure and tend to brute force situations. I still think Mini is going to win though. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
On October 05 2023 13:04 RowdierBob wrote: If Effort has any decency about him, he'll let Mini win so we, the fans, don't have to endure a bo7 ZvZ for the final. Go Mini. Effort is indeed a decent man. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4711 Posts
Of course we will get 4 games of hydra busts now. | ||
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Simplistik
1959 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
On October 06 2023 00:46 Simplistik wrote: It's really interesting that Effort never got to a hydra-bust attempt. Was it the builds? Too techy/low econ? One time he could've attempted a hydra bust, other times he chose builds that didn't allow for that option. I'm honestly baffled by that decision. In a full length bo7 you have to do at least two hydra busts, it's just a staple of ZvP. Four games in a row he didn't go for that. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4103 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:44 Peeano wrote: Well, I got my prediction right. I did not imagine a 4-0 win though. EffOrt became a K-league player to not abuse his wrist into destruction, right? Maybe not the time to bring it up lol. I don't mean to discredit Mini's achievement at all here. Even back in KeSPA days EffOrt had a lot of trouble facing Bisu (best PvZer at the time) as well. What is your point? In Kespa era there was not a single player (even Flash and JD) who did not have a lot of trouble facing Bisu. Effort was like everyone else in this regard | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4103 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
On October 06 2023 02:12 M2 wrote: What is your point? In Kespa era there was not a single player (even Flash and JD) who did not have a lot of trouble facing Bisu. Effort was like everyone else in this regard My point is Effort destroyed any other Protoss in KeSPA days and unlikely loses to any other Protoss than Mini nowadays, (undoubtedly 0-4 in the case he does lose). Mini is the PvZer of this era. Bisu was a challenge too big without wrist issues. Likewise Mini would be a challenge too big even without wrist issues. Etc. Flash and JD don't matter in this because I'm talking about Effort and I'm comparing modern Mini vs KeSPA Bisu here. | ||
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QOGQOG
828 Posts
On October 05 2023 20:41 Magic Powers wrote: Damn, is Mini becoming the PvZ god? Already was. On October 05 2023 21:26 RJBTV wrote: Soulkey performs best under massive amounts of pressure. Soulkey also plays the most brainy zerg. Two things I think Mini is worst again because he is a limit tester. Limit testers tend to overwhelm with pressure and tend to brute force situations. I still think Mini is going to win though. SK may be able to get some mileage out of preparation, but I agree Mini is the definite favorite. Mini being super aggressive and able to pull off multi-pronged harassment vs SK the lowest APM top Zerg... doesn't look good. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4165 Posts
unexpected! but appreciated  hopefully we will see better quality games in the Grand Final but the winner will remain the same as today Mini FIGHTING! | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19208 Posts
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines525 Posts
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TMNT
2530 Posts
On October 06 2023 07:47 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: seemed like in all games, except maybe game 2, effort’s builds seemed to indicate he was avoiding a long macro-game. was he avoiding long macro games in a long bo7 set because of his hands? Seems more like situations forced him. He was behind every time with the openings. As I said, everything fell in place for Mini today. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
Mini nearly bottled it in a couple of those games though. | ||
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Lazyer
United States339 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10301 Posts
Also the streaming numbers where insane with all the players streaming ASL. I think it was atleast over 100k. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2584 Posts
Too bad the pressure from Mini was immense and never let up. | ||
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Ideas
United States8075 Posts
On October 06 2023 12:50 Lazyer wrote: Man Ro8 and Ro16 effort was SO different than Ro4 today. Barely put up a fight, really disappointing. Sharp had a better series against Mini. Yea while I'm happy for mini and that we get a ZvP finals, this did not seem like the same Effort that took down Light and JYJ. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria358 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
2825 Posts
SoulKey will be a much tougher opponent but not sure anyone can stop Mini at this point. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
If EffOrt was overhyped I'd say Mini was a bit underhyped too. Mini didn't do amazing in ASL for a while now, nor in proleague. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
On October 07 2023 01:59 Peeano wrote: That's easy to say at hindsight. EffOrt well outperformed the expectation this ASL, even clapping Action into retirement. (I'm joking but still). If EffOrt was overhyped I'd say Mini was a bit underhyped too. Mini didn't do amazing in ASL for a while now, nor in proleague. Quite true. I think Mini demonstrated a high level of play with precise defense and offense. Effort tried to force Mini into awkward spots but didn't succeed. | ||
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TMNT
2530 Posts
Game 1 he didn't identify the 12 Nexus, thus his first 6 lings just chased the probe for a while instead of heading straight to Mini, then decided to Muta all in but let a probe walked right in lol. Game 3 Mini handled the initial 6-8 lings flawlessly, then Effort was way off with his ling all in timing. Game 4 was just a disaster from start to finish, every move he made was a wrong move lol, most of them unforced errors really. Soulkey is not gonna make those types of mistakes and Mini may run out of luck with BO opening, and based on their form recently I believe Soulkey will take the series 4-1 or 4-2. | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On October 07 2023 00:31 RogerChillingworth wrote: People overhyped effOrt coming into this. Sorry, folks. He's obviously a legend but his consistency is all over the place. Mini came into the series very hungry and mauled effOrt like he was a B-ranker. It was every little decision by Mini, from hiding zealots behind the mineral-only for a counter attack to forge first in several games. The dude plans a Bo7 series better than anyone and has clinically engineered optimization. He's an absolute beast at this stage of a tournament and showed that here vs effOrt. SoulKey will be a much tougher opponent but not sure anyone can stop Mini at this point. His 14 nexuses and other crappy strats paid off, great job Mini. I still think he's the worst player to have ever won an ASL, hope he won't repeat it in the finals. It's amazing how a guy this bad can win an ASL or possibly even two... He's the protoss Royal with all his cheese strats. Talk about overhyped... SK all the way, although he also lucked his way into the finals, it shoulda been Jyj if he didnt get overconfident and started playing retardedly vs SK.... I mean Jyj would've taken down Mini 4-0, let's hope SK can do the same. | ||
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TMNT
2530 Posts
On October 07 2023 04:12 Kaolla wrote: His 14 nexuses and other crappy strats paid off, great job Mini. I still think he's the worst player to have ever won an ASL, hope he won't repeat it in the finals. It's amazing how a guy this bad can win an ASL or possibly even two... He's the protoss Royal with all his cheese strats. Talk about overhyped... SK all the way, although he also lucked his way into the finals, it shoulda been Jyj if he didnt get overconfident and started playing retardedly vs SK.... I mean Jyj would've taken down Mini 4-0, let's hope SK can do the same. Lmao seems like this guy is a Protoss hater no wonder why he trashtalked Snow earlier in the season. Let me tell you almost none of the things you said above are true. Mini the worst player to have won ASL, yep that's why he got into 4 ASL + 1 KSL finals. Bad? Third highest win rate among all players in Proleague this year. Just cheesed his way into 5 finals yeah? If that's the way Shine would have been the goat of BW by now (Flash who?). Royal is not a cheese Terran. Did you get that idea from watching like 3 games, as sample size? JYJ 4-0 Mini big lol. JYJ the TvP monster who can't break past 30% against any of the top 5 Protosses? It's more like he'd have lost 0-4 had he gone to the finals. | ||
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EndingLife
United States1587 Posts
Game 1 - Overpool speed vs 12 nexus 13 cannon. Ling runby was so late that there was already a cannon in the main. Game 2 - Overpool vs 12 nexus 13 cannon. 20 minutes 0-0 upgrades. No thought of transitioning into late game at any point. Game 3 - 9 Pool speed vs gateway expand, cannon before nexus. This was the worst one...Effort didn't even try to kill the weak gateway before Mini could make Cyber core. He had more than enough zerglings to destroy the 7 zealot move out yet he engaged with 9, tried to runby with 6 and the rest were afk. Game 4 - Overpool vs Forge first 13 nexus. Effort decides to make 3rd hatchery in the main after a scouting fail and all in muta with 2 base 2 gas. | ||
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Artas1984
Lithuania116 Posts
On October 07 2023 04:12 Kaolla wrote: Talk about overhyped... Just like you, i do not like Mini as well, but for different reasons - more related to his weird antics and lack of charisma. But his talent can not be denied. As far as i can tell, he is the most crafty and calculated Protoss in our current in ASL history (2015 - 2023). His Nexus first opening on a 2 player map vs. an over-pool and his calculated last second defense was the biggest spit on a zerg's face i've ever seen! This opening could have made him a clown, and an absolute looser to be talked for the whole next year, but instead it certified his GOSU status. The balls were ''high'' with that one... Now, of course i still will be rooting for Soulkey, because he deserves an ASL win more. | ||
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TMNT
2530 Posts
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VGhost
United States3609 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1587 Posts
On October 07 2023 06:51 TMNT wrote: 12 Nexus 12 Forge is a legitimate build, not a blind gamble. It's safe vs Overpool. And it doesn't even die instantly to 9 Pool, depending on maps, spawning, and probe micro. Mini went 12 nex 13 forge game 1 | ||
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TMNT
2530 Posts
I know. He even built the probe after seeing Effort's Pool, and that map has 2 entrances to the nat! In the end the lings eneded up chasing the probe around, but I have no idea what Mini's response would have been had they headed straight to his base. Maybe rush distance on that map is longer than usual that 12 Nex 13 Forge is viable? | ||
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ggsimida
1141 Posts
mini playstyle encapsulates the dirty ladder protoss to the highest degree with the right balance of rigour u expect from an expro and that is why he is the only toss in modern times to have great results offline | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
On October 07 2023 09:59 ggsimida wrote: too much protoss bias in foreign community anyway so haters balances out mini playstyle encapsulates the dirty ladder protoss to the highest degree with the right balance of rigour u expect from an expro and that is why he is the only toss in modern times to have great results offline I don't understand why people call Mini's strategies "dirty". They're all legit. He does what's necessary to win and gets hate for it. People forget (or never noticed) that Flash has used such strategies at a very similar rate. CC first and bunker rush has always been a staple for him, and he's even done BBS a good number of times as well as many other variations of proxy strats. There's nothing "dirty" about that. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria358 Posts
On October 07 2023 18:16 Magic Powers wrote: I don't understand why people call Mini's strategies "dirty". They're all legit. He does what's necessary to win and gets hate for it. People forget (or never noticed) that Flash has used such strategies at a very similar rate. CC first and bunker rush has always been a staple for him, and he's even done BBS a good number of times as well as many other variations of proxy strats. There's nothing "dirty" about that. The number of Flash blunders because of 14 CC is too damn high. | ||
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Destroyer
Czech Republic931 Posts
On October 07 2023 04:05 TMNT wrote: I'm always against reading too much into a series like this. I don't think Mini played particularly brilliantly or something. Just played to his usual level. It's more like Effort handed the win to him with questionable decision making. Game 1 he didn't identify the 12 Nexus, thus his first 6 lings just chased the probe for a while instead of heading straight to Mini, then decided to Muta all in but let a probe walked right in lol. Game 3 Mini handled the initial 6-8 lings flawlessly, then Effort was way off with his ling all in timing. Game 4 was just a disaster from start to finish, every move he made was a wrong move lol, most of them unforced errors really. Soulkey is not gonna make those types of mistakes and Mini may run out of luck with BO opening, and based on their form recently I believe Soulkey will take the series 4-1 or 4-2. Exactly. I still root for Mini and even feel he might do it (he has the actual championship powers unlike players like Best or so), but Soulkey is really in peak form recenly and I do still favour him slightly more. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
On October 07 2023 20:11 Nirli wrote: The number of Flash blunders because of 14 CC is too damn high. Sure, the best player on the planet would keep doing CC first despite it bringing down his winrate :p | ||
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moktira
Ireland1542 Posts
As happy as I was with this result though, this series was really disappointing, questionable decision-making from Effort, especially after going 2 down, was really hoping for a closer game. Looking forward to the final, just sincerely hope that it won't be Hydra-bust after Hydra-bust. | ||
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ggsimida
1141 Posts
of course a protoss player will say protoss aint dirty in general | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
. Protosses have been getting murdered by hydra busts constantly this season. Effort tried to do a hydra bust and mini read it and went Templar tech instead of Stargate tech. I thought mini ooked pretty good. | ||
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QOGQOG
828 Posts
On October 08 2023 05:06 Proko wrote: Mini so dirty playing expo builds and choosing tech based on scouting. . Protosses have been getting murdered by hydra busts constantly this season. Effort tried to do a hydra bust and mini read it and went Templar tech instead of Stargate tech. I thought mini ooked pretty good. Yeah, Mini played quite well on every metric, effOrt didn't. Some people just like whining about Protoss. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
I hope The finals are a lot better than this. Hopnig to see some tricky plays from Soulkey | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States669 Posts
This works extremely well in PvZ, because every timing that forces zerg to make units instead of drones is actually an optimal timing in a way. But in PvT, this sort of play can leave him pretty fragile in the lategame. Like, the games Mini wins are usually won in the midgame following a successful defense in the early game off a super greedy opener. If the game goes late, if mini didn't accrue a big advantage in the midgame or early game, he looks pretty weak. That all being said, he's the best Protoss in the world right now. I suppose I don't blame him for avoiding the lategame versus T because 3/2 mech is really quite a headache to fight. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32271 Posts
When it went down to micro or tactics, he managed to keep up with Mini even though he was far behind in tech or eco. I guess Mini prepared better, but I wouldn't read too much into this series to draw conclusions. | ||
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