EPTAbsolutely ecstatic Snow is out. Horrendous play. TMNT, where you at?
Also, Best is out the next round, very unimpressive play.
At least my homeboy SK advanced, guess I'll be rooting for him as far as Z is concerned.
[ASL15] Ro16 Group C - Page 10
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Nirli
Bulgaria356 Posts
Absolutely ecstatic Snow is out. Horrendous play. TMNT, where you at? Also, Best is out the next round, very unimpressive play. At least my homeboy SK advanced, guess I'll be rooting for him as far as Z is concerned. | ||
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Miragee
8465 Posts
Quite sad that Light is out. It's sad how times have changed. I used to dislike Light because he was the 100 % standard, never deviate guy and also was pretty much only (insanely) good at TvZ. Now he is sick in all three match ups, brings in new strategies, mixes it up, plays smart on the fly. Great player which should have advanced but it also showed how tough this group actually was. On March 31 2023 23:53 Nirli wrote: Absolutely devastated that Light is out, but he has only himself to blame for playing 76. Literally cost him his spot in RO8. I disagree. I think he had that match. The moment he decided to drop bottom right instead of bringing the carriers down in the middle he lost the match. Very unfortunate decision, though tbf understandable because he didn't have full vision and if he could have gotten bottom right he would have also won. | ||
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TMNT
2500 Posts
On March 31 2023 23:53 Nirli wrote: Absolutely ecstatic Snow is out. Horrendous play. TMNT, where you at? Wow I thought many people educating you in the other topic was enough to shut you up, and I didn't even bother to call you out when Mini was out of Ro24 losing to Ssak. Yet here's you calling me out because Snow is out of Ro16 in the most ridiculous group in recent memory. What's your point anyway? He's out of Ro16 so he's not a top player??? Are you that thick? | ||
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Artas1984
Lithuania111 Posts
On April 01 2023 05:39 TMNT wrote: He's out (Snow) of Ro16 so he's not a top player??? Are you that thick? I agree with TMNT here. Looking at the recent results, Snow got a 67 % win rate in his past 407 online matches while the next top guy Mini gets "only" 56 %? You have got to be shitting me! Snow reached his highest performance peak of all time, did surpass everyone BY FAR, so it is insane that Snow is out even more than Mini, Soma, Royal, Rush and Light and Bisu. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria356 Posts
On April 01 2023 05:39 TMNT wrote: Wow I thought many people educating you in the other topic was enough to shut you up, and I didn't even bother to call you out when Mini was out of Ro24 losing to Ssak. Yet here's you calling me out because Snow is out of Ro16 in the most ridiculous group in recent memory. What's your point anyway? He's out of Ro16 so he's not a top player??? Are you that thick? I still feel uneducated and will feel so until Snow wins something. Or do you mean getting schooled like Snow just got schooled? Did you watch the games? And don't tell me "but did you see X player"? My issue is with Snow and will be with Snow. | ||
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TMNT
2500 Posts
On April 01 2023 13:44 Nirli wrote: I still feel uneducated and will feel so until Snow wins something. Or do you mean getting schooled like Snow just got schooled? Did you watch the games? And don't tell me "but did you see X player"? My issue is with Snow and will be with Snow. Here's a thought: You're free to express your happiness/sadness about a player's performance. Everyone does. No one cares. But if you call me out you better have a point now. You don't. But you kinda made a big point about Snow being a mid-tier player but at the same time also claimed Mini and Bisu are top-tier. I, along with others, already pointed out to you, with FACTS, that in the modern era, Snow's performance is at least on par with Mini and Bisu, whether it was past ASLs, this ASL, or online. He's on fucking 75% in Major Proleague in March. Seventy-five percent! And that 75% came from only playing with tier 1 players. Not even counted the stats padding stuff like beating Barracks 9-0 in UBE. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
There's no doubt Snow has improved a ton before this ASL and he's now among the top protoss players. Even in PvZ really only Bisu can hold a candle to him, and otherwise he's also a beast. This current Snow is very different from the one we're used to seeing. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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TMNT
2500 Posts
No wonder why Royal put him in this group lmao. | ||
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TMNT
2500 Posts
It almost feels like Protoss becomes a different race depending on the match-up. And I haven't started on PvP. It's probably one of the reasons why they are the least succesful race at pro level. | ||
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Miragee
8465 Posts
On April 06 2023 04:59 TMNT wrote: Now looking at this kind of results, it begs the question that why Snow can't be that good in PvZ (he's been eliminated by Zergs 7 seasons in a row now). And likewise, why Bisu can't be that good in PvT. It almost feels like Protoss becomes a different race depending on the match-up. And I haven't started on PvP. It's probably one of the reasons why they are the least succesful race at pro level. I have also pondered about this for a long while. Every protoss who seems to be good at PvZ is kind of mediocre in PvT compared to most protoss players which are good at PvT. The difference I noticed with players like Bisu and Mini is that they are relentless with their aggression, starting early on and are also very good at small scale battles. This helps to keep the zerg down. However, this doesn't translate well into PvT where you can achieve way less with just a few units in the early to midgame stages, without a big commitment (e.g. reaver). You also need great control of big armies against terran. Neither Mini nor Bisu have particularly good control with these massive armies against terran. I always see bugging goons in the front and zealots stuck in the back. I also feel like engagements in PvT need to be more strategic whereas in PvZ they need to be decisive. It often feels like Bisu especially doesn't know where and when to attack a terran. Players like Best on the other hand know that but even if they attack into something that looks impossible to break, they now how to execute the attack. It sure takes very different mindsets for the two match ups. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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Simplistik
1931 Posts
As for the games, Snow tried a particular opening against Light, it didn't work and then he couldn't recover. That kinda stuff happens all the time. Can't play safe every game, especially not against top opposition. Against herO, Snow did look outmatched. But herO is one of the best ZvP'ers in the game and this is Snow's weakest match-up, so it was always going to be tough. I don't think Snow was chanceless going into that match, but he was the underdog. I just hope that Protoss do a bit better generally next season... | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria356 Posts
On April 01 2023 16:28 TMNT wrote: Here's a thought: You're free to express your happiness/sadness about a player's performance. Everyone does. No one cares. But if you call me out you better have a point now. You don't. But you kinda made a big point about Snow being a mid-tier player but at the same time also claimed Mini and Bisu are top-tier. I, along with others, already pointed out to you, with FACTS, that in the modern era, Snow's performance is at least on par with Mini and Bisu, whether it was past ASLs, this ASL, or online. He's on fucking 75% in Major Proleague in March. Seventy-five percent! And that 75% came from only playing with tier 1 players. Not even counted the stats padding stuff like beating Barracks 9-0 in UBE. And I shall forever curse myself for giving you that ammo (or straw).  Until he wins ASL, basically the most prestigious BW tournament right now, I will never consider him top tier. He can beat whomever 100x times in whatever league, does it matter when you can't cut it for the most important thing? You and I will never reach a consensus, but I do find it interesting to rile things up a bit for our favorite dusty game. | ||
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QOGQOG
827 Posts
On April 06 2023 23:51 Nirli wrote: And I shall forever curse myself for giving you that ammo (or straw). Until he wins ASL, basically the most prestigious BW tournament right now, I will never consider him top tier. He can beat whomever 100x times in whatever league, does it matter when you can't cut it for the most important thing? You and I will never reach a consensus, but I do find it interesting to rile things up a bit for our favorite dusty game. I'm less confused about why you don't consider him top tier, even if your reasons are dumb, and more confused about why you can't go ten seconds without announcing it. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
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Shinrei
United States236 Posts
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QOGQOG
827 Posts
On April 08 2023 18:25 Magic Powers wrote: A lot of the time these days Snow looks close to untouchable even against some top players. The main question is if his nerves are made for tournaments, and if his greed will persist. My hot take: good chance he'll make people who say protoss is the worst race eat their words. It's baffling because while ASL has been going on, he won the Sanpao StarLeague Spring Cup Season 4 and KCM Race Survival 2023 Season 1 Finals. | ||
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TMNT
2500 Posts
On April 09 2023 00:21 QOGQOG wrote: It's baffling because while ASL has been going on, he won the Sanpao StarLeague Spring Cup Season 4 and KCM Race Survival 2023 Season 1 Finals. It's not too surprised. If anyone follows Proleague, they can see that any player in the top 10 can beat any other on a given day. If you're of Ro8 quality, you most likely can beat a Ro16 player in a BO3. But if two Ro8 players play each other, the result can go either way in a BO3. Only when the series goes long enough (BO5/7/9), the "better" player (the gap between them is really small) can ultimately dominate. For example, Snow was also down 0-2 in the semi of Sanpao Cup against Royal, but it's a BO7 so he came back. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
Some of that could be a fluke, but it's beginning to enter statistically unlikely territory. If he keeps this up for just one more month, the hype train will be rolling full steam ahead. | ||
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