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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Maps have been announce, but players have not. I'm guessing they will be sometime in the next 1-3 days (at least that's how it was in playoffs). I though it would be fun to speculate a bit on the lineups, here are the maps: Game 1 @ Nemesis Game 2 @ Geometry Game 3 @ Vampire Game 4 @ Monty Hall Game 5 @ Sin Peaks of Baekdu Game 6 @ Chariots of Fire Game 7 @ Tau Cross | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5555 Posts
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Gokey
United States2722 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
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.kaz
1963 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
jangbi vs backho @ Nemesis PvP because its nemesis. samsung will save stork for monty hall since he is so good on it, and lecaf will likely try to counter him with anytime, thus we'll see a pvp between the lesser protosses of each team. FBH vs forGG @ Geometry TvT because its geometry jihyun/cuteboy vs Shinwa/Dongrae @ Vampire z/t teams have proven to dominate vampire and both teams happen to have very good z/t 2v2 teams. stork vs anytime @ Monty Hall i explained it already. jju vs jaedong @ Sin Peaks of Baekdu the best players on each team that are not locked into playing a specific map because of the racial domination on it. unfortunately they're both zerg tt/siga vs Bright[z-zone]/N.aCe)Ever @ Chariots of Fire z/p has proven to be the best combination to play on chariots and both teams happen to have very good z/p teams. stork/fbh vs anytime/forgg @ Tau Cross | ||
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istealhotelsoap
United States514 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Nemesis/Monty Hall: I have been asking myself who is better off with both Monty and Nemesis being in the lineup of the non-ace-match maps, because neither of them really has a 2nd player who can be reasonably sure to win his game there, only Stork for Samsung and Anytime for Lecaf, that's it. The others are pretty much wild cards. Geometry: TvT is a given, which forces FBH vs fOrGG, nothing to add. Peaks: Jaedong is basically a given, I can't imagine Jaedong being sent out on any of the other maps..., for Samsung it's a little harder, other than Jju I think Frozean might be a reasonable choice. 2v2 games: you already correctly named the teams that have been used the most (and have been the most successful) for both teams on both maps, nothing to add here. Tau Cross (ace): I'd really like to add Jaedong as a possibility here, he has been just as good as Anytime throughout this season (1 more win than Anytime actually) and most importantly he is undefeated on Tau Cross in official games during his entire career (8-0 stats with today's game vs Light), so he definitely is a viable choice. Also Anytime has been doing really bad vs Terran in PL (1-4 stats) and considering he may have to face FBH if he is sent out..., I am by no means saying that he would have really bad odds to beat FBH, but still. Last but not least I think it's important (and sad in a way) to realize how 50% of the maps that are being used this season (Monty, Nemesis, Geometry) have been forcing a lot of mirrors (Monty to a lesser extent, as there have been a lot of PvT games on it, but neither team has a competent Terran other than FBH and fOrGG). This forces the best players of their races into being sent out on certain maps and then as a coach you have to somehow try to fill remaining maps with your often lesser players. This is much more evident in playoffs/finals obviously, because there are only 3 previously set 1v1 games during the season, as opposed to the 4 set games in playoffs/finals. And it's too late to start experimenting now, you do not experiment in finals, that's what the early season is for. | ||
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cSf.Loser
Czech Republic115 Posts
On July 28 2007 07:27 SoMuchBetter wrote: samsung vs lecaf jangbi vs backho @ Nemesis PvP because its nemesis. samsung will save stork for monty hall since he is so good on it, and lecaf will likely try to counter him with anytime, thus we'll see a pvp between the lesser protosses of each team. FBH vs forGG @ Geometry TvT because its geometry jihyun/cuteboy vs Shinwa/Dongrae @ Vampire z/t teams have proven to dominate vampire and both teams happen to have very good z/t 2v2 teams. stork vs anytime @ Monty Hall i explained it already. jju vs jaedong @ Sin Peaks of Baekdu the best players on each team that are not locked into playing a specific map because of the racial domination on it. unfortunately they're both zerg tt/siga vs Bright[z-zone]/N.aCe)Ever @ Chariots of Fire z/p has proven to be the best combination to play on chariots and both teams happen to have very good z/p teams. stork/fbh vs anytime/forgg @ Tau Cross i agree with you but i think that for lecaf will play jeadong on ace coz he play on tau this season | ||
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
FrOzean < Hiya @ Nemesis FireBatHero > fOrGG @ Geometry tz > tz @ Game 3 @ Vampire Jangbi < Anytime @ Monty Hall Stork > Jaedong @ Sin Peaks of Baekdu pz < pz @ Chariots of Fire Stork < Anytime @ Tau Cross | ||
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~chut~
France1317 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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~chut~
France1317 Posts
 But it can still be nice to try to put every lecaf player on their worst mu. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Game 1 @ Nemesis - anytime vs stork Game 2 @ Geometry - forgg vs fbh Game 3 @ Vampire - dongrae/shinhwa vs jihyun/cuteangel Game 4 @ Monty Hall - backho vs jangbi Game 5 @ Sin Peaks of Baekdu - jaedong vs zergman Game 6 @ Chariots of Fire - ever/bright vs TT/sigamari Game 7 @ Tau Cross - jaedong vs stork now, 5/6 of the lecaf lineup is an absolute given already. Chances are, Backho will be placed on Monty again. He really was surprisingly good last night on it. Khan coach knows well that these players are being sent on these maps, and will counter accordingly. Stork and FBH really should be no brainers. FBH has a far superior tvt compared to forgg. Stork, you would consider to have a better pvp than anytime, but she *might* mix it up here looking at anytime's game last night. Well actually, seeing as we all thought Bisu was firmly in the lead for most of the game, she'll prolly send stork anywyas. 2v2s - no brainers, khan has used the same guys over and over. monty - Khan really doesnt have that many 1v1 players after fbh and stork. Jangbi has played the most games after them but has a bad record. However, jangbi was used 2x in the last week of proleague, meaning that she intends to use him. Chances are, he's going on the P favored map of Monty. peaks - khan knows jaedong is going here, and that he has been unstoppable as of late. There are two options here: (1) throw a P at him, such as jangbi (2) throw a Z at him, b/c ZvZ is usually unpredictable. Problem with 1 is that jangbi has not been playing all "that" well. However, jaedong did lose to the Future of Protoss in ODC, so who knows. The problem with 2 is that Zman hasnt played really at all this season, and jaedong's zvz is pretty much the best in the business along with savior. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Lecaf coach doesn't run that way. | ||
GTR
51449 Posts
Game 2 @ Geometry - fOrGG vs FBH Game 3 @ Vampire - Dongrae/Shinhwa vs Cuteangel/Jihyun Game 4 @ Monty Hall - Hiya or Lomo vs Jangbi Game 5 @ Sin Peaks of Baekdu - Jaedong vs Jju Game 6 @ Chariots of Fire - Bright/Ever vs Zerglee/TT Game 7 @ Tau Cross - Jaedong vs Stork | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2933 Posts
Hard to predict really, but lecaf is fucked regardless of the matchups | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
Geometry: FBH > ForGG: After ForGG lost the two proleague games in the same day he has been looking down. FBH has an awesome TvT so he will take this. Vampire: I have no clue but Dong/ Shinhwa have a pretty good record so Oz > Khan Monty: Stork> Backho: Backho just came out on Monty yesterday + Show Spoiler + even though he lost Beakdu: Jaedong > Frozean. The only other person that could come out here is TT but I highly doubt that. Jaedong will rip up Frozean. If Jju comes out, Jaedong will whip his ass as well. Chariots: Again I really don't know about 2v2 but I think Khan will take it using Sig/ TT. So Khan > Oz Ace.. Tau Cross: This is hard to predict. Jaedong probably has the highest chance of coming out but Anytime can come out as well. Khan has FBH or Stork. If Jaedong comes out you have to worry that Stork might come out and ZvP is Jaedong's weakest matchup. If it is FBH vs Jaedong it could go either way but Jaedong will probably take it. If Anytime comes out he has a pretty good chance of winning against both of these players as long as he brings his Fall game. So... I predict both teams will go with veteran players and it will be Anytime > Stork | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Silverflame
United States428 Posts
Anytime also beat Stork on Monty the last time they met, so we might see the same matchup on that map again. Firebathero v. Jaedong would be the most interesting potential matchup by far, but the only real way I can see that happening is if Samsung sends out Frozean on Geometry (vs ForGG) and FBH on Peaks (vs Jaedong). Too much of a risk, I think. All in all, I'm pretty sure we'll mostly get mirrors. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
That said, I think the line up Haji presented is best cept I believe Jju will be sent out on Peaks. Why would you ever use Zergman instead of Jju? | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2933 Posts
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On July 28 2007 20:39 SuperJongMan wrote: Rumor's of Stork being weak PvZ is a misconception. That said, I think the line up Haji presented is best cept I believe Jju will be sent out on Peaks. Why would you ever use Zergman instead of Jju? http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/59-games-vs-Z -thx to the awesome progaming database | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On July 29 2007 01:10 kNyTTyM wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/59-games-vs-Z -thx to the awesome progaming database you MUST take into consideration the fact that he was slumping like a hunchback during the year of 2006. He even admitted so himself remember? Look at his results from 2007 only, and they sing a much better tune for stork and his pvz abilities when he is on-form, which is clearly is right now. + Show Spoiler + + 07-07-17 ShinHan ProLeague R1 Sin Peaks of Bae.. Zby.hero Win + 07-06-07 GOMTV MSL S2 Loki ZsAviOr Loss + 07-06-02 GOMTV MSL S2 Desperado ZsAviOr Loss + 07-05-27 ShinHan ProLeague R1 Python ZLuxury Win + 07-05-11 Daum OSL Monty Hall ZGGPlay Loss + 07-04-28 ShinHan ProLeague R1 Python ZJaedong Win + 07-04-20 ODT2007-1 Neo Arkanoid ZGGPlay Loss + 07-04-19 MBC Survivor 11th BlitzX ZNal_keke Win + 07-04-12 ODT2007-1 Neo Arkanoid Z815 Win + 07-04-12 ODT2007-1 Hitchhiker Z815 Win + 07-03-09 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Arcadia 2 ZYellOw[ArnC] Win 7-4, which aint so shabby. who are his losses against? GGplay, GGplay, Savior, Savior. Who can really blame him? +__+ He's won against the likes of Luxury (okay, weak vsP), Jaedong (okay, weak again), Keke (who is always a threat), 815 (a zvp specialist), and Yarnc (weak zvp again i guess). Even though the "big name" zergs he's beaten are known to have a relatively weak zvp, they are by no means a Orion or a Odin or a Child -__-;; | ||
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GTR
51449 Posts
2nd Set - FireBatHero(T) < Geometry > fOrGG(T) 3rd Set - JiHyun/Cuteboy(Z/T) < Vampire > Dongrae/ShinHwA(T/Z) 4th Set - Stork(P) < Monty Hall > Anytime(P) 5th Set - Freedom(T) < Sin Peaks of Baekdu > Jaedong(Z) 6th Set - TT/Sigamari(P/Z) < Chariots of Fire > Bright/Ever(Z/P) 7th Set - Ace Match < Tau Cross > OK, one bet i would like to do, Freedom is going to get slaughtered by jaedong. | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On July 29 2007 01:40 thedeadhaji wrote: you MUST take into consideration the fact that he was slumping like a hunchback during the year of 2006. He even admitted so himself remember? Look at his results from 2007 only, and they sing a much better tune for stork and his pvz abilities when he is on-form, which is clearly is right now. + Show Spoiler + + 07-07-17 ShinHan ProLeague R1 Sin Peaks of Bae.. Zby.hero Win + 07-06-07 GOMTV MSL S2 Loki ZsAviOr Loss + 07-06-02 GOMTV MSL S2 Desperado ZsAviOr Loss + 07-05-27 ShinHan ProLeague R1 Python ZLuxury Win + 07-05-11 Daum OSL Monty Hall ZGGPlay Loss + 07-04-28 ShinHan ProLeague R1 Python ZJaedong Win + 07-04-20 ODT2007-1 Neo Arkanoid ZGGPlay Loss + 07-04-19 MBC Survivor 11th BlitzX ZNal_keke Win + 07-04-12 ODT2007-1 Neo Arkanoid Z815 Win + 07-04-12 ODT2007-1 Hitchhiker Z815 Win + 07-03-09 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Arcadia 2 ZYellOw[ArnC] Win 7-4, which aint so shabby. who are his losses against? GGplay, GGplay, Savior, Savior. Who can really blame him? +__+ He's won against the likes of Luxury (okay, weak vsP), Jaedong (okay, weak again), Keke (who is always a threat), 815 (a zvp specialist), and Yarnc (weak zvp again i guess). Even though the "big name" zergs he's beaten are known to have a relatively weak zvp, they are by no means a Orion or a Odin or a Child -__-;; HEY ORIONS COOL lolol :D | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On July 30 2007 02:02 GTR-2-Go wrote: Just because you didn't make clear: this is the official line-up that has been released now, it's not GTR-2-Go's guess 1st Set - Jangbi(P) < Nemesis > BackHo(P) 2nd Set - FireBatHero(T) < Geometry > fOrGG(T) 3rd Set - JiHyun/Cuteboy(Z/T) < Vampire > Dongrae/ShinHwA(T/Z) 4th Set - Stork(P) < Monty Hall > Anytime(P) 5th Set - Freedom(T) < Sin Peaks of Baekdu > Jaedong(Z) 6th Set - TT/Sigamari(P/Z) < Chariots of Fire > Bright/Ever(Z/P) 7th Set - Ace Match < Tau Cross > OK, one bet i would like to do, Freedom is going to get slaughtered by jaedong. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On July 29 2007 01:10 kNyTTyM wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/59-games-vs-Z -thx to the awesome progaming database Do two year old games really still matter? Try looking at 2007 and you notice he is 63%. While he lost to Savior and GGplay (if these two are the standard for being a weak pvz or not, I guess no one has a good PvZ cept 1 or 2 players) he's beaten everyone else and you can say they are scrubby or not but the fact remains, He won most of his PvZ this year. Stork can definately play against any Lecaf member and score a win. Anytime would pose the greatest threat to shutting down Stork. That would really be a match. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4116 Posts
) | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
but whatever, its PROLEAGUE FINALS | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
FireBatHero(T) > fOrGG(T) JiHyun/Cuteboy(Z/T) < Dongrae/ShinHwA(T/Z) Stork(P) < Anytime(P) Freedom(T) < Jaedong(Z) TT/Sigamari(P/Z) > Bright/Ever(Z/P) Not going to try to predict Ace match | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On July 28 2007 09:09 Carnac wrote: and what P out of samsung's lineup would that be? because stork is a must on monty/nemesis (rather monty though) and the other are... not really good I think TT would dismantle Jaedong quite easily | ||
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Locked
United States4182 Posts
standard 2v2 sets and TvT @ geometry, but then lecaf shuffled anytime from nemesis to monty to take on stork (who was favored to be on monty) samsung still trusts jangbi's PvP abilities so i guess lecaf figures backho is still favored against jangbi but they also want a chance to take down stork with anytime (backho probably wouldn't have been able to beat stork) if it reaches ace on tau.... should be interesting jaedong/anytime/forGG vs stork/FBH? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
But he'll still lose straight up. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On July 30 2007 06:12 Shauni wrote: ,I think TT would dismantle Jaedong quite easily Lol, Jaedong's technique alone is >>>> TT. Plus who would they use for 2v2 without TT there. If the game goes to ace, I am so sure it'll be Stork vs Anytime. | ||
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WhatisProtoss
Korea (South)2325 Posts
BackHo and ForGG weren't favorites to win by no means. AnyTime, Jaedong, and their 2v2 teams were expected to win. So, if BackHo and ForGG won a game through luck, then AnyTime or Jaedong were the last singles players expected to seal the win. I think they were afraid of putting Anytime or Jaedong out in the beginning and having them lose. If those ace players lose early on, then team morale is low and the other players probably won't play well. If you put mediocre players in the beginning, then it is more safe. If they lose, they were expected to lose. If they win, it's a huge upset and raises team morale. I liked that lineup. I think they should use a similar one. | ||
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WhatisProtoss
Korea (South)2325 Posts
On July 30 2007 03:32 Carnac wrote: Just because you didn't make clear: this is the official line-up that has been released now, it's not GTR-2-Go's guess Ah, yes. Lecaf lineup is similar to their first lineup. If Backho and ForGG get lucky, then AnyTime and Jaedong are there to seal the win. (not that it's that easy) | ||
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pfvoid
Korea (South)48 Posts
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