If FlaSh makes it though either snOw and/or Hero with random (without getting Terran) in ASL i think that might be one of the greatest single achivements in BW history.
On October 11 2020 01:02 ...onmYwaY wrote: If FlaSh makes it though either snOw and/or Hero with random (without getting Terran) in ASL i think that might be one of the greatest single achivements in BW history.
I am looking forward to this...
Calm down lol Its 3 wins... Random vs Z (especially on those maps) In a bo3 makes it almost a flip (if not flash favored) for the winners match...
On October 11 2020 01:02 ...onmYwaY wrote: If FlaSh makes it though either snOw and/or Hero with random (without getting Terran) in ASL i think that might be one of the greatest single achivements in BW history.
I am looking forward to this...
Calm down lol Its 3 wins... Random vs Z (especially on those maps) In a bo3 makes it almost a flip (if not flash favored) for the winners match...
Flash 2-0ing this group should be expected.
No it shouldn't. Flash 2-0 this group is even more unlikely and would be a very very significant achievement. Even advancing in second is still a great feat
Flash getting out in this round is the expected result without R rolling terran several times. When and if he advances, the last thing that would make sense was to say that was expected or anything other than amazing.
I totally expect Flash to beat protosses if he doesn't get protoss against them. Against hero though, he will probably be able to win only if he gets terran.
On October 11 2020 02:51 arbiter_md wrote: I totally expect Flash to beat protosses if he doesn't get protoss against them. Against hero though, he will probably be able to win only if he gets terran.
From recent games, a few of them even against hero, his P and PvZ actually seem decent. Not sure if enough for a real match tho.
On October 11 2020 02:51 arbiter_md wrote: I totally expect Flash to beat protosses if he doesn't get protoss against them. Against hero though, he will probably be able to win only if he gets terran.
you must've missed the recent games where flash beat hero in convincing pvz games, then. i love flash's cannon light, zealot heavy pvz style.
If Flash gets out of this group, it just proves how ridiculously above everyone else he is, especially if he doesn't get terran more than once. That would be a major achievement.
I hope Flash gets Zerg against Free And Snow so we can see his weakest race. I think Flash won’t get Terran very much the next couple rounds because in the show-matches he kept randoming T left and right.
Really hope Snow can advance and this is one of his "makes it to the finals" seasons not one of his "out in the Ro16" seasons. But hero and PvR are tough.
On October 11 2020 05:35 Magic Powers wrote: I made the poll uneven just to annoy a few people I think Flash is likely gonna lose unless he gets his fair share of terran.
So pumped up for this one. I pray for FlaSh to net get eliminated so dream of FlaSh getting too far or even winning as random will cement him as someone even above God/GOAT.
Does anybody know if the game algorithm for choosing random is close to what's expected (33% chance for each race)? Or is Blizzard using something weird algorithm to make the mirror match-up less likely, in which case Flash has more chances to get Terran in the game in this group.
On October 11 2020 18:06 arbiter_md wrote: Does anybody know if the game algorithm for choosing random is close to what's expected (33% chance for each race)? Or is Blizzard using something weird algorithm to make the mirror match-up less likely, in which case Flash has more chances to get Terran in the game in this group.
I doubt Blizzard would do something like that. I mean, why?
#2 이영호 다전제 경기는 하나의 영상에 담는 것이 아닌 경기 길이에맞게 2개이상으로 나누어서 업로드합니다!
구독과 알람설정 후 기다려주세요!
Google translate:
The goal is quarterfinals! Lee Young-ho who changed randomly from Terran!! Will we be able to successfully advance to the quarterfinals? See you today
Why Lee Young-ho should watch ASL games on YouTube today!
#1 A record of ASL's official broadcast will be uploaded because it cannot be broadcast today. Let's see the official video broadcast by Sanghyun Park, Seungwon Lee, and Seongchun Lim!
#2 Lee Young-ho's multidisciplinary game is not included in one video Divide into two or more to fit the length of the game and upload!
Please wait after subscribing and setting the alarm!
On October 11 2020 18:06 arbiter_md wrote: Does anybody know if the game algorithm for choosing random is close to what's expected (33% chance for each race)? Or is Blizzard using something weird algorithm to make the mirror match-up less likely, in which case Flash has more chances to get Terran in the game in this group.
I doubt Blizzard would do something like that. I mean, why?
There's nothing like that in 1v1, but in 2v2/3v3 etc. random is not as often the race as your team mates' iirc.
I'd be surprised if Flash makes it out if he doesn't get more Terran than not, but of course that would be the most excitig thing of ASL for him to make it further and further as random, so crossing my fingers
i should know this as a zerg fan, but why are players so scared of zerg these days? i haven't been keeping up at that much - are the maps good or is there a lot more innovation from players like larva? seems like zvt has come a long way, and seems to be a pretty even match up now.
On October 11 2020 19:16 Motivate wrote: i should know this as a zerg fan, but why are players so scared of zerg these days? i haven't been keeping up at that much - are the maps good or is there a lot more innovation from players like larva? seems like zvt has come a long way, and seems to be a pretty even match up now.
Mutas, maps that offer you the 4th gas and some new meta stuff that let's you get hive tech fast.
On October 11 2020 19:16 Motivate wrote: i should know this as a zerg fan, but why are players so scared of zerg these days? i haven't been keeping up at that much - are the maps good or is there a lot more innovation from players like larva? seems like zvt has come a long way, and seems to be a pretty even match up now.
Mutas, maps that offer you the 4th gas and some new meta stuff that let's you get hive tech fast.
interesting.. a few years ago zvt was in an awful state. it was all about getting your third gas, and if you fail to secure the ramp to your third gas it's auto lose. now it seems like the third is a given and it's all about the fourth.
On October 11 2020 19:36 RKC wrote: Feel bad for free. Looked like he did well to fend off the vulture drops. What was his mistake? Taking the third too fast?
Not GG'ing as soon as he scouted Terran
He defended the vults but neglected his macro a little bit. Flash didn't. Free went with a fast tech route and also went for his third rather fast. He was light on units for a little bit of time and Flash killed him for it.
On October 11 2020 19:36 RKC wrote: Feel bad for free. Looked like he did well to fend off the vulture drops. What was his mistake? Taking the third too fast?
didn't look like he made any actual mistakes. Just didn't macro as well as Flash.
On October 11 2020 01:02 ...onmYwaY wrote: If FlaSh makes it though either snOw and/or Hero with random (without getting Terran) in ASL i think that might be one of the greatest single achivements in BW history.
I am looking forward to this...
Calm down lol Its 3 wins... Random vs Z (especially on those maps) In a bo3 makes it almost a flip (if not flash favored) for the winners match...
Flash 2-0ing this group should be expected.
Well both snOw and Hero are ASL finalists... if you expect Flash to roll them with random you don’t respect the challenge very much.
On October 11 2020 19:36 RKC wrote: Feel bad for free. Looked like he did well to fend off the vulture drops. What was his mistake? Taking the third too fast?
Not GG'ing as soon as he scouted Terran
He defended the vults but neglected his macro a little bit. Flash didn't. Free went with a fast tech route and also went for his third rather fast. He was light on units for a little bit of time and Flash killed him for it.
Flash was super clutch going for the timing push before arbiter. I didn't realise he scouted the third. Starsense?
On October 11 2020 19:36 RKC wrote: Feel bad for free. Looked like he did well to fend off the vulture drops. What was his mistake? Taking the third too fast?
Not GG'ing as soon as he scouted Terran
He defended the vults but neglected his macro a little bit. Flash didn't. Free went with a fast tech route and also went for his third rather fast. He was light on units for a little bit of time and Flash killed him for it.
Flash was super clutch going for the timing push before arbiter. I didn't realise he scouted the third. Starsense?
At this point. We just call it classic Flash. I have seen so many of flash doing this kind of stuff it is just normal at this point
On October 11 2020 19:40 SenorChang wrote: man that random player in the first set was pretty good!
On October 11 2020 19:39 goody153 wrote: What happened to Jaedong btw ? I don't religiously follow BW anymore but i haven't seen him in the last few ASL. Is he retired ?
On October 11 2020 19:39 goody153 wrote: What happened to Jaedong btw ? I don't religiously follow BW anymore but i haven't seen him in the last few ASL. Is he retired ?
On October 11 2020 19:39 goody153 wrote: What happened to Jaedong btw ? I don't religiously follow BW anymore but i haven't seen him in the last few ASL. Is he retired ?
On October 11 2020 19:39 goody153 wrote: What happened to Jaedong btw ? I don't religiously follow BW anymore but i haven't seen him in the last few ASL. Is he retired ?
On October 11 2020 19:36 RKC wrote: Feel bad for free. Looked like he did well to fend off the vulture drops. What was his mistake? Taking the third too fast?
didn't look like he made any actual mistakes. Just didn't macro as well as Flash.
Yeah basically that. His build had a timing it's weak against, and if you roll with a build like that, you can always expect Flash coming over to break your spine at that exact moment. He also floated 1000+ minerals pretty early on and was constantly on 800+, I'm sure some extra zealots and faster legs would've helped
we've come full circle, used to be z would just keep upping carapace, was not too unusual to see +3 cara before anything else and P would go straight to +3 weap
Now it's like Z always going for ranged +1 first and keep pumping it, and for P 1/1 and now even 1/2??
On October 11 2020 20:01 razorsuKe wrote: +2 armor first for P guys
we've come full circle, used to be z would just keep upping carapace, was not too unusual to see +3 cara before anything else and P would go straight to +3 weap
Now it's like Z always going for ranged +1 first and keep pumping it, and for P 1/1 and now even 1/2??
1-0 -> 1-1 -> 1-2 ->2-2 -> 2-2-1
interesting choice of upgrade path there. also very nice solid display of macrotoss against hero's classic mass hydra style of play.
Hero did well sniping HTs with muta. Snow looked on the ropes there. Maybe Hero should've been more patient by expanding and teching up, rather than trying to end the game by busting Snow's third.
On October 11 2020 20:26 oxKnu wrote: How do you not scout the any of the far way bases when nothing happens in the game for the first 15 minutes in a PvP?
he was scouting for proxy so that wasn't really on his mind.
On October 11 2020 20:26 oxKnu wrote: How do you not scout the any of the far way bases when nothing happens in the game for the first 15 minutes in a PvP?
honestly though Flash should probably lose this one. Snow was outmicroing him really badly last game. Was trading efficiently despite probably having 60-70% as much army.
I never thought I would use this word... I am FLABBERGASTED 😮
FlaSh just made history. This is ASL10. Probably the highest skilled brood war tournament there has ever been. And he makes RO8 with random vs. ex-finalist snOw. Hats off gents... god is walking among us.
Man this is it... I just need to travel to Korea to shake his hand... You can't go further and do something hard as he did. But now real question is who's he going to match on ro8?
On October 11 2020 20:45 AttackZerg wrote: I don't understand how Snow's earlier 4 gates didn't outproduce flashes later 4 gates, was it all the money lost on cannons?
"Even as i practice as zerg. I beat alot of protosses" - Flash (Tasteless comment)
On October 11 2020 20:48 Golgotha wrote: Flash just beat the best current toss player as random. In a pvp. This will go down as one of the greatest esport smack downs. Poor snow
On October 11 2020 20:45 AttackZerg wrote: I don't understand how Snow's earlier 4 gates didn't outproduce flashes later 4 gates, was it all the money lost on cannons?
i think flash killed too many probes. He was not as behind as other people said. He equaled Snow's supply but had shuttle with 2 reavers so he actually had a stronger army. i don't fault Snow for misreading though the 4 gate push. That is realty unconventional play.
On October 11 2020 20:45 AttackZerg wrote: I don't understand how Snow's earlier 4 gates didn't outproduce flashes later 4 gates, was it all the money lost on cannons?
Yes he spent money on cannons and flash sniped quite a few of the probes in the early engagements. But Snow went robo tech instead of investing in goons and it cost him. I think he thought flash would expand after the early engagements and wasn’t anticipating a four gate + reaver all in.
Like game one, he failed to scout effectively and it cost him.
On October 11 2020 20:45 AttackZerg wrote: I don't understand how Snow's earlier 4 gates didn't outproduce flashes later 4 gates, was it all the money lost on cannons?
he lost a lot of probes too. I didn't notice but perhaps he even brought more over from the main, so his income rates probably weren't massively ahead by the time the final battle came around
On October 11 2020 20:45 AttackZerg wrote: I don't understand how Snow's earlier 4 gates didn't outproduce flashes later 4 gates, was it all the money lost on cannons?
Cannons are a big mineral sink. Plus he lost probes.
Snow threw, so Flash got kinda lucky. Flash shouldn't have lost his 2nd reaver for little value, he could have waited for the shuttle and that second push would have been much stronger.
Snow didn't have an obs so he was blind to what flash was going to do after the failed initial push. Flash just as well could've expo'd and reaver drop and if Snow powered pure goons in that situation, he would be going allin.
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
On October 11 2020 20:45 AttackZerg wrote: I don't understand how Snow's earlier 4 gates didn't outproduce flashes later 4 gates, was it all the money lost on cannons?
i think flash killed too many probes. He was not as behind as other people said. He equaled Snow's supply but had shuttle with 2 reavers so he actually had a stronger army. i don't fault Snow for misreading though the 4 gate push. That is realty unconventional play.
Yeah, Flash stayed ahead in supply almost throughout. Goon + reaver will definitely beat pure goon. Game still seemed rather even after Snow defended the first push with huge losses. Perhaps Snow could've rushed to reavers himself?
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
^
the misplay by snow was making too many probes in the first place since he knew flash is committing to the 4 gate reaver allin. will have stabilise on production and get his own reaver out faster by cutting probes earlier
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
^
the misplay by snow was making too many probes in the first place since he knew flash is committing to the 4 gate reaver allin. will have stabilise on production and get his own reaver out faster by cutting probes earlier
He had no probs already..."cuting probes" is not an option when you dont have them in the first place. Or do you mean before the first push by Flash?
He had no scouting available for him, he "didn't know" Flash was commiting.
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
^
the misplay by snow was making too many probes in the first place since he knew flash is committing to the 4 gate reaver allin. will have stabilise on production and get his own reaver out faster by cutting probes earlier
He had no probs already..."cuting probes" is not an option when you dont have them in the first place. Or do you mean before the first push by Flash?
He had no scouting available for him, he "didn't know" Flash was commiting.
i think he meant that snow should've cut probes after Flash failed initial push. He definitely built a lot of probes after the push since his natural saturation looked pretty high. I am not sure if Snow knew Flash was allining on 4 gates and in that case, I understood why he made so many probes. He didn't see the 4 gates but he saw Flash parking a lot of goons at his natural so I think he was not really sure what was going on.
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
^
the misplay by snow was making too many probes in the first place since he knew flash is committing to the 4 gate reaver allin. will have stabilise on production and get his own reaver out faster by cutting probes earlier
He had no probs already..."cuting probes" is not an option when you dont have them in the first place. Or do you mean before the first push by Flash?
He had no scouting available for him, he "didn't know" Flash was commiting.
While snow did not directly scout Flash, I guess he could have guessed Flash is commiting with that much goons/reavers.. I also felt that Snow was over-producing probes, from what I could tell from the stream he was making probes right up till the end... going up to 5/6 gate would be better imo..
On October 11 2020 20:47 Zaibakk wrote: Guys Snow lost a LOT of probes during 1st AND 2nd push... so it was not a throw by him at all. Infact he has a poor number of dragoons. GJ FLASH!
Yes you are correct. Flash killed like at least 7 probes and 10 cannons. The supply count was very close for a 1 base vs 2 base game.
^
the misplay by snow was making too many probes in the first place since he knew flash is committing to the 4 gate reaver allin. will have stabilise on production and get his own reaver out faster by cutting probes earlier
He had no probs already..."cuting probes" is not an option when you dont have them in the first place. Or do you mean before the first push by Flash?
He had no scouting available for him, he "didn't know" Flash was commiting.
While snow did not directly scout Flash, I guess he could have guessed Flash is commiting with that much goons/reavers.. I also felt that Snow was over-producing probes, from what I could tell from the stream he was making probes right up till the end... going up to 5/6 gate would be better imo..
Slowing probe production while teching to reaver is also feasible? That helps defend any second push, or pressure Flash's own expo if he tries to macro instead.
I'd also like to point that Flash playing random is actually quite advantageous in the regular ASL format (Bo1's included in the latter stages where players are actually good).
He mains Terran, so he'll win 90% of those games, no matter what. PvP is very build order/luck dependent and he has no fear in throwing some wild stuff out there against opponents that easily mind-gamed because they have to deal with Random. PvZ - starting as Random in this is actually huge and gives him a sizeable advantage. ZvZ - underdog here since his micro here will always be inferior to all other pros. ZvT - knows Terran's strats in and out so he has plenty of room to maneuver.
All in all I think this whole Random thing is actually not bad at all for Flash. Sneaky tactic in and of itself.
He had no scouting available for him, he "didn't know" Flash was commiting.
count units + aggression or no
Ok I can understand that.
Im not fully sure he was always aware of how much Flash had, specially after killing the slow reaver but I understand that although I cant, pro's can keep track of that even in the midst of those fights.
Imo, Free has the best large army movement and lategame management of any PvZer ever. I know he is freshly back from the army but dude is a legend of lategame to me.
On October 11 2020 21:22 goody153 wrote: By the way. Where do i get to watch Flash random or offrace on his stream ?
I checked his youtube it looked mostly just him casting games
On the newest page of the small vod thread. There is a Flash R v Snow and a Flash R vs Shine you can check out, they are from b01 sponsored matches. But not fpvod, they are casted games.
Also not fpv, but there is 3 bo3's that flashed played that are on youtube, if you search flash random ten on youtube, the 3 matches will come up.
Snow desperately has to win and come out 2nd in this round. Imagine the shit he will get if he gets knocked out. He's already under heat for losing 2 pvps, but getting knocked out is gonna be a whole world of hurt.
On October 11 2020 21:22 goody153 wrote: By the way. Where do i get to watch Flash random or offrace on his stream ?
I checked his youtube it looked mostly just him casting games
On the newest page of the small vod thread. There is a Flash R v Snow and a Flash R vs Shine you can check out, they are from b01 sponsored matches. But not fpvod, they are casted games.
Also not fpv, but there is 3 bo3's that flashed played that are on youtube, if you search flash random ten on youtube, the 3 matches will come up.
Thanks !
Also with casters is perfect. I have more fun watching spectator than pov. I don't play BW anymore so i don't care much about FPOV
Feel bad for Free, he lost a PvP to the guy who was just 2-0ed PvP by Flash But Snow really did impossible, showing how micro can sometimes beat macro.
i feel like free's lategame composition was kinda bad to be honest.. archons and zealots + some reavers and goons much better than goons, zealots and storms
Artosis is right. It's a travesty that the most demanding esport with the highest skill ceiling isn't more popular. League of legends? Where you control a single unit?! That's why lol will one day die and bw will always be here.
Not only did Free play well, but Snow really struggled with his form in this match. He won a fight versus a bigger army in a situation he got into by playing worse then his opponent. He sheer ability to execute that attack vs a maxed opponent and to WANT to fight then and there is nutty.
I am so proud for him. His heart rose to the moment, when his head had failed him and he had reason to doubt himself, he didn't and just knocked a bigger guy the fuck out.
When he got storm dropped that last time, I am sure he was close to gg, but he didn't. Just rawr.
On October 11 2020 23:18 Golgotha wrote: Artosis is right. It's a travesty that the most demanding esport with the highest skill ceiling isn't more popular. League of legends? Where you control a single unit?! That's why lol will one day die and bw will always be here.
On October 11 2020 23:18 Golgotha wrote: Artosis is right. It's a travesty that the most demanding esport with the highest skill ceiling isn't more popular. League of legends? Where you control a single unit?! That's why lol will one day die and bw will always be here.
hopefully man.. hopefully
cheers to that!
Hell yea! Did you see that army control? It was amazing how the two armies were posturing back and forth, knowing that you can only select 12 of them at a time! While microing the fking shuttles. Insane.
On October 11 2020 23:18 Golgotha wrote: Artosis is right. It's a travesty that the most demanding esport with the highest skill ceiling isn't more popular. League of legends? Where you control a single unit?! That's why lol will one day die and bw will always be here.
Its a travesty that people who have developed such mastery (in anything) don't have more opportunities. That ASL is the "only" official league is a sad thing in itself. It is not ok that people like free, who give day and night to BW, have "only" (its not exactly true, but you know what I mean) ASL to look forward to, and when that's done its another dream until next time with nothing proper in between.
Free's army comp was so bad during that big battle. Mostly zealots with like two archons. Any protoss player could tell that it wasn't going to end well for him given how many archons snow had
On October 11 2020 23:18 Golgotha wrote: Artosis is right. It's a travesty that the most demanding esport with the highest skill ceiling isn't more popular. League of legends? Where you control a single unit?! That's why lol will one day die and bw will always be here.
I just wanna become rich and pour 1 million $ for BW each year. Dreamy lol...
On October 11 2020 23:25 RKC wrote: Anyone got stats on the viewer count across streams?
Bit late, but I looked sometime during the games against Snow, and between Afreeca, Youtube, and Sea there were around 100,000 viewers (21K, 9K, 70K). I can't remember now if I actually looked at Bisu's stream to see if he had it on, but he had around another 16K at this time. There were also a smattering of other players on the sidebar with 1-3K viewers who may also have been streaming it. Anyway, at least 100K, maybe as high as 120-130K.
I'm not through all the matches yet but I hate the random play already. I know a lot of people find it exciting, I don't. It just feels like every match is a cheese. Great.
All my ESPORT dollars are going to free. What incredible heart he had playing the games today, he only lacked some solid decision making. If he would have made less Zelots that last game and balanced it out with more gas units he would have won. I’m crushed he didn’t get through but I would have been crushed if Snow was out too. Hope he keeps playing like that, he definitely deserves to go far with play like that.
On October 12 2020 04:22 hiro protagonist wrote: All my ESPORT dollars are going to free. What incredible heart he had playing the games today, he only lacked some solid decision making. If he would have made less Zelots that last game and balanced it out with more gas units he would have won. I’m crushed he didn’t get through but I would have been crushed if Snow was out too. Hope he keeps playing like that, he definitely deserves to go far with play like that.
Its too bad, Free is another player with serious health-issues (wrist fucked up for a long time) His ups and downs are magnified because of this.
Flash turns starcraft into some sort of experiment. Just to think how great Protoss he would make with his godsenses.
I don’t think flash as random is a weakness. If anything an advantage. If he gets Terran he wins. If he gets Z vs Protoss he will be at an advantage. Now we know his PvP is killer too. We will have to see other match ups, but I think he’s proven the random advantage with his skills is not a handicap
On October 12 2020 06:15 reps)squishy wrote: I don’t think flash as random is a weakness. If anything an advantage. If he gets Terran he wins. If he gets Z vs Protoss he will be at an advantage. Now we know his PvP is killer too. We will have to see other match ups, but I think he’s proven the random advantage with his skills is not a handicap
I disagree, I dont think he will be able to play any ZvX matchup well, I can't imagine his muta micro is up to par and that is a big part of any Z matchup. I do think he will be damn strong with any TvX or PvX matchup, but zerg is really something completely different. Aside from cheesing I don't see him winning any matches with zerg.
On October 12 2020 06:15 reps)squishy wrote: I don’t think flash as random is a weakness. If anything an advantage. If he gets Terran he wins. If he gets Z vs Protoss he will be at an advantage. Now we know his PvP is killer too. We will have to see other match ups, but I think he’s proven the random advantage with his skills is not a handicap
I disagree, I dont think he will be able to play any ZvX matchup well, I can't imagine his muta micro is up to par and that is a big part of any Z matchup. I do think he will be damn strong with any TvX or PvX matchup, but zerg is really something completely different. Aside from cheesing I don't see him winning any matches with zerg.
If flash plays nothing but ZvP against pylon in main. He will have hundreds of games like that. While the Protoss is used to having their pylon in the natural
snow had absolutely no business winning that match, the fact that he did it proves that he's got that winner's mentality needed for top 3 finalists. Especially after that devastating loss to flash.
Not enough is said about that final blow too, although Free was behind at that point, the game could have went on. When snow made it look like he committed to elevator his units to that semi-island, Free moved too much of his army down in there. That's when Snow moved around to the nat and the time it took Free to get his own shit back there was too long.
Free knew he'd been duped too, that final look of defeat on his face wasn't purely because of a loss, but the way in which he lost it.
my god that last game was INSANE! it was so damn close, and free was showing good targeting in the last game to hold off 3gate. must have been devastating to lose, so unfortunate he never took the 2nd main gas, a lot of those zealots could have been archons.
the zealot drop on snows 4th was so smart, excited to see free as a real contender in the next seasons!
I actually felt gutted for Free when he lost that last game to Snow. What an absolute epic game and series. We also can't forget that Free took down Hero who seems to still be a macro God but might have been slightly out of touch. Hero was sniping a ridiculous amount of high templar.
Free's old style of just constant early zealot pressure was so entertaining and seemed to unsettle his opponents. Almost felt like an old meta vs the new meta and the old meta definitely stood up. I realise gateway expands are by no means surprising but it's the veterans like Free and Bisu who seem to do it far more often and cut down on cannons.
I will definitely be a fan of Free moving forwards. Used to watch his games on streams but his games in ASL10 have made him even more like-able in my book.
I really don't know how he could have finished off Snow in that last game. Sure, his attacks maybe weren't optimal but how do you kill a guy who has the best reaver macro in the world. I guess he could have sat back and taken more bases but then he faces Snow with full supply. I think that map was also a bit unfair. With all those chokes in the middle, seems so hard to move across the map and push for the win.
He definitely shouldn't feel bad (although I am sure he does). He played two exhausting series. I think if he can work on his reaver micro a bit more and maybe fine tune his army movement in his engagements, he could make a RO8.
BTW, always been a Snow fan so it was kind of weird actually barracking for his opponent. I am usually barracking for Snow.
On October 12 2020 06:15 reps)squishy wrote: I don’t think flash as random is a weakness. If anything an advantage. If he gets Terran he wins. If he gets Z vs Protoss he will be at an advantage. Now we know his PvP is killer too. We will have to see other match ups, but I think he’s proven the random advantage with his skills is not a handicap
Tastosis mentioned that the issue will most likely be if Flash gets Protoss and faces a Zerg. That makes sense to me. Flash is scouting late which you really have to do as random. So things like 4 pool, 9 pool gas etc... he just won't know what's coming and it could be too late once the lings are in his base. Luckily for him, the remaining Zergs don't seem to use all-ins very much. Although we did see that 4 pool from Larva.
I monitored TL's BW Afreeca streams (including commentary/restreams from Sea, Bisu etc) during the group to see what the peak would be and captured this in game 2 of the Snow v Flash bo3
Can't believe Flash 2/0 his group playing random, those protoss will always be fucking noobs I swear, if EffOrt isn't here no one can fucking do it god damn it.
On October 12 2020 20:13 chillzzz wrote: I monitored TL's BW Afreeca streams (including commentary/restreams from Sea, Bisu etc) during the group to see what the peak would be and captured this in game 2 of the Snow v Flash bo3
Seeing the most welcome explosion of viewership that brings me immense joy, here's an imaginary scene: It is shortly after ASL 9 and Afreeca guys go to Flash's place. After the usual exchange of politeness they step up. Afreeca guy: So, we've been thinking and you're super good and all. Flash: Ah, thank you. Afreeca guy: So how about you play random next season cause it's stupid, with terran you will likely roll all the guys and you know, viewers might start to lose interest, now that effort is not here you lose 1 in 10 games. We will put up some big incentive for you, of course. Flash: Hmm, let me think about it. Hell yeah, let's smash with random, how hard could it be?
I love this game, its intricacies, the lack of knowledge about who will win except that one thing is sure - whoever plays better this game, will take it. It really is the greatest game imo.
On October 12 2020 20:13 chillzzz wrote: I monitored TL's BW Afreeca streams (including commentary/restreams from Sea, Bisu etc) during the group to see what the peak would be and captured this in game 2 of the Snow v Flash bo3
Afreeca's Youtube ENG stream had around 8.5k viewers at the time
Long live BW!
That’s awesome!!
Btw I watched the last game again and Free never took the second gas in his main which explains why he was heavier on zealots. He was gas quite Low on gas the whole game.
On October 12 2020 20:17 iFU.pauline wrote: Can't believe Flash 2/0 his group playing random, those protoss will always be fucking noobs I swear, if EffOrt isn't here no one can fucking do it god damn it.
[QUOTE]On October 13 2020 11:11 Leterren wrote: damn, I normally watch only SC2 but the hype around these games got me to tune in... I should watch more Brood War[/Heck out group b, that group also had nothing but great games.
This was a pretty amazing group overall. Flash pounding Free in that TvP and Free's reaction was funny. Flash's random games vs Snow were great too. Add on that last Snow vs Free game and it was just amazing.
EPT
Afreeca Starleague Season 10![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/424.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/175.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/82.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/652.jpg)
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dKzcb5E.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Dp4kQ89.jpeg)
