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TLADT24920 Posts
On February 16 2015 08:05 VGhost wrote:
Interesting to me that Last completely abandoned his typical long-game strategic play entirely after game 1. I assume he was intending to cross up sSak, but it didn't really work, and he let himself in for boom-or-bust plays that either did (games 2/3) or didn't (game 4/5) work. I wonder if that was planned though or if he was reacting.
Last's major weakness always seemed like he left barely any defense at home at times. Several times during his games last night, he'll have barely any units at his natural and next thing you know, there's 5-10 vultures at his expansion killing workers and he is scrambling back to defend. In the games that he got to play the game the way that he wanted, he dominated sSak or played really well but once sSak took control of the game, Last was left behind and couldn't keep up.
What was most surprising to me is that game 5. Last held the high ground with his vultures yet he allowed sSak to just waltz on up and grab the bigger concave to win the engagement and deal severe damage afterwards (which cost him the game imo). I guess even high APM can't save you from looking away for a bit lol.
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People just got the old school nostalgia feels when they saw Last in the finals.. but the real TvT god was always going to win it.. ssak fighting!
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On February 17 2015 17:54 shizzz wrote:
People just got the old school nostalgia feels when they saw Last in the finals.. but the real TvT god was always going to win it.. ssak fighting!
while i congratulate ssak as well i still have slight reservations considering him a great and worthy champion. while he does show solid effort in his play, he has a relatively easy path to the finals if you look at the opponents he played against. plus he is known for many bloopers in his general play outside of this tourney.
and ssak kinda just caught on to last's weakness and lucked out with big vults runbys in the last 2 set. although i guess its kinda of a karmic retribution for last who lucked out with some cheeses during his tourney run too.
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On February 16 2015 03:34 QuickStriker wrote:
By the way, does anyone remember which Fall Out Boy song it was everytime at the end of SSL broadcast, we see those masterful quick summary highlights of the matches made instantly by OGN Video Editor Senpai?
Trying to find the exact song but I realized there's a quite bit of songs by this group....
Also I gotta start compiling all the highlight cuts made by OGN Video Editor Senpai... how to do this... hmm...
Fall Out Boy's The Kid's aren't alright.
People at OGN sure have some talents. The highlights are my favorite part in OGN videos.
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On February 17 2015 19:44 Probemicro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 17:54 shizzz wrote:
People just got the old school nostalgia feels when they saw Last in the finals.. but the real TvT god was always going to win it.. ssak fighting! while i congratulate ssak as well i still have slight reservations considering him a great and worthy champion. while he does show solid effort in his play, he has a relatively easy path to the finals if you look at the opponents he played against. plus he is known for many bloopers in his general play outside of this tourney. and ssak kinda just caught on to last's weakness and lucked out with big vults runbys in the last 2 set. although i guess its kinda of a karmic retribution for last who lucked out with some cheeses during his tourney run too.
True, sSak's vZ and vP are nowhere near his vT level, and so he was very lucky to have all T at the end (he even said so himself). But I think you are underestimating his level of TvT play. For the past few years at least, it was (roughly) always either, him or Sea as the best TvTer, then him and midas/light, then him and mind, and now it's between him and last. He has always been there as a remarkably solid player at his mirror, definitely at a level worthy enough of winning this tournament.
In saying that though, I was perfectly happy with either player winning. I was going for sSak but Last winning it would have made a great story.
Someone mentioned up about Last opting for quicker games after the first. I think he knew full well the level sSak's TvT was at, and so after having a solid crack at a macro game and losing, he opted to try quicker plays to try and exploit sSak's game, rather than go head to head with it.
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Firstly im satisfied with games being fast and action packed, which i was not expecting, these players really did what they said in the interviews before the final.
What im not satisfied is the last two games. sSak going all in vultures two games in a row is just too cheap and simple. Kim karrier said right that sSak needs to show something more than all in builds to deserve the title champion, sadly he became champion whitout showing different play in the last 2 games. And if you see last's builds they was way more interesting and complicated. I consider Last to be a level above than sSak, hes just not going for the cheap wins and is wanting to show his full potential in TvT, because of that i consider him as the real champion.
However a winer is a winer, so grats to sSak.
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Bisutopia19393 Posts
On February 18 2015 02:35 _Animus_ wrote:
Firstly im satisfied with games being fast and action packed, which i was not expecting, these players really did what they said in the interviews before the final.
What im not satisfied is the last two games. sSak going all in vultures two games in a row is just too cheap and simple. Kim karrier said right that sSak needs to show something more than all in builds to deserve the title champion, sadly he became champion whitout showing different play in the last 2 games. And if you see last's builds they was way more interesting and complicated. I consider Last to be a level above than sSak, hes just not going for the cheap wins and is wanting to show his full potential in TvT, because of that i consider him as the real champion.
However a winer is a winer, so grats to sSak.
Rofl. I guess Yellow was the real winner when he lost against Boxer to all those bunker rushes. Last lost because he failed to adapt to the strategy of sSak. If I used your thought process, I guess Bisu qualified for every OSL and already has a golden mouse. sSak deserves the title hands down.
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On February 18 2015 03:49 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 02:35 _Animus_ wrote:
Firstly im satisfied with games being fast and action packed, which i was not expecting, these players really did what they said in the interviews before the final.
What im not satisfied is the last two games. sSak going all in vultures two games in a row is just too cheap and simple. Kim karrier said right that sSak needs to show something more than all in builds to deserve the title champion, sadly he became champion whitout showing different play in the last 2 games. And if you see last's builds they was way more interesting and complicated. I consider Last to be a level above than sSak, hes just not going for the cheap wins and is wanting to show his full potential in TvT, because of that i consider him as the real champion.
However a winer is a winer, so grats to sSak. Rofl. I guess Yellow was the real winner when he lost against Boxer to all those bunker rushes. Last lost because he failed to adapt to the strategy of sSak. If I used your thought process, I guess Bisu qualified for every OSL and already has a golden mouse. sSak deserves the title hands down.
Wrong. Bisu didnt qualified and Last is on the final, my thought process is only matter of the superior playstyle and entertainment value, not just wins, because jangbi didnt became legend by wining last game of OSL against fantasy with dark templars, he showed amazing performace in his other games deserving what he achieved at 100%.
Not that sSak is not deserving it, but he was not impressive, Last, Free, Jangbi, Mind, Modesty made way better games than sSak in their SSL run.
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Bisutopia19393 Posts
On February 18 2015 07:45 _Animus_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 03:49 BisuDagger wrote:On February 18 2015 02:35 _Animus_ wrote:
Firstly im satisfied with games being fast and action packed, which i was not expecting, these players really did what they said in the interviews before the final.
What im not satisfied is the last two games. sSak going all in vultures two games in a row is just too cheap and simple. Kim karrier said right that sSak needs to show something more than all in builds to deserve the title champion, sadly he became champion whitout showing different play in the last 2 games. And if you see last's builds they was way more interesting and complicated. I consider Last to be a level above than sSak, hes just not going for the cheap wins and is wanting to show his full potential in TvT, because of that i consider him as the real champion.
However a winer is a winer, so grats to sSak. Rofl. I guess Yellow was the real winner when he lost against Boxer to all those bunker rushes. Last lost because he failed to adapt to the strategy of sSak. If I used your thought process, I guess Bisu qualified for every OSL and already has a golden mouse. sSak deserves the title hands down. Wrong. Bisu didnt qualified and Last is on the final, my thought process is only matter of the superior playstyle and entertainment value, not just wins, because jangbi didnt became legend by wining last game of OSL against fantasy with dark templars, he showed amazing performace in his other games deserving what he achieved at 100%. Not that sSak is not deserving it, but he was not impressive, Last, Free, Jangbi, Mind, Modesty made way better games than sSak in their SSL run.
I don't see how last had superior play style. He had a glaring weakness sSak had exploited. And I guess just have an overall disagreement that winner is invalid because you didn't find him entertaining. That voids every Flash medal cause a lot of people consider his play style extremely boring. Also, I found sSaks play extremely entertaining. His drop play in game one was so friggin ballsy. I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.
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On February 17 2015 23:29 shizzz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 19:44 Probemicro wrote:On February 17 2015 17:54 shizzz wrote:
People just got the old school nostalgia feels when they saw Last in the finals.. but the real TvT god was always going to win it.. ssak fighting! while i congratulate ssak as well i still have slight reservations considering him a great and worthy champion. while he does show solid effort in his play, he has a relatively easy path to the finals if you look at the opponents he played against. plus he is known for many bloopers in his general play outside of this tourney. and ssak kinda just caught on to last's weakness and lucked out with big vults runbys in the last 2 set. although i guess its kinda of a karmic retribution for last who lucked out with some cheeses during his tourney run too. True, sSak's vZ and vP are nowhere near his vT level, and so he was very lucky to have all T at the end (he even said so himself). But I think you are underestimating his level of TvT play. For the past few years at least, it was (roughly) always either, him or Sea as the best TvTer, then him and midas/light, then him and mind, and now it's between him and last. He has always been there as a remarkably solid player at his mirror, definitely at a level worthy enough of winning this tournament. In saying that though, I was perfectly happy with either player winning. I was going for sSak but Last winning it would have made a great story. Someone mentioned up about Last opting for quicker games after the first. I think he knew full well the level sSak's TvT was at, and so after having a solid crack at a macro game and losing, he opted to try quicker plays to try and exploit sSak's game, rather than go head to head with it.
Nah I don't underestimate ssak TvT, in fact I thought he would give a pretty good fight to last as well, better than mong or mind can put up. Just that the manner of how ssak's victory was earned through the last 2 sets leaves much to be desired.
The first game on sin peaks is also the time I felt last became really psychologically unnerved as he felt very confident prior but yet now could not carry out his original game plan successfully (there were a lot of little moves during the early stages that went ssak's way and despite last 's attempt to wrest control of the game by seizing the two high ground on the map early, the advantage built up for ssak and last slowly concedes the high grounds and lost the plot from there)and decide to simply improvise later on.
If the last map wasn't randomly chosen to be sin peaks (a map that last is now shown to struggle with, probably has a psychological fear even), the game can still go either way. Maybe we can blame last for not having a solid backup plan/strat on sin peaks, but hey I guess that's just how the game rolls.
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United States13143 Posts
What a strange conversation. sSak deserved to be the winner. You can tell he deserved to win because he won, and I say this as someone who likes Last more than sSak
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Japan11837 Posts
This ain't the first time a dark horse won it all. He needs some time to prove he belongs I guess (think Anytime, July, and he who can't be named)
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Hey did someone commentate them in English ? I would really appreciate a link, No "past broadcast" on bisudagger's twitch, and I don't know where else to search
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Thank you so much Probemicro
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Bisutopia19393 Posts
On February 18 2015 20:10 Tufas wrote:Thank you so much Probemicro
I didn't cast any SSL games. Just KSL. :D
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It's so entertaining to see how many fanboys are trying to deny the truth and thinking that Last is the true champion.
Anyone can explain what he was thinking in the game on blue storm? going wraiths against vultures? lol.
PS. and spoiler: Neither of the players in this finals isn't really the best player out there, but the winner deserves his win.
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Bisutopia19393 Posts
On February 18 2015 21:40 Piste wrote:
It's so entertaining to see how many fanboys are trying to deny the truth and thinking that Last is the true champion.
Anyone can explain what he was thinking in the game on blue storm? going wraiths against vultures? lol.
PS. and spoiler: Neither of the players in this finals isn't really the best player out there, but the winner deserves his win.
What will people say if Kwanro wins the KSL? Should we just hand the trophy to Mind and say this final series really doesn't matter?
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United States13143 Posts
On February 18 2015 21:40 Piste wrote:
It's so entertaining to see how many fanboys are trying to deny the truth and thinking that Last is the true champion.
Anyone can explain what he was thinking in the game on blue storm? going wraiths against vultures? lol.
PS. and spoiler: Neither of the players in this finals isn't really the best player out there, but the winner deserves his win.
It looks to me like it's only one guy.
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EPT
