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HighTemper
Canada3867 Posts
On June 28 2012 00:50 ppshchik wrote: I don't see Flash beating Fantasy if Fantasy advances to RO4, Fantasy is on fire lately. Are you judging from his performance in the Ro16 against 3 royal roaders? And also he's not performing that well in the PL atm. Not a fan for both players, but this S-class clash might well be the best series of this OSL. Don't let me down Fanta, beat soO... | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
On June 27 2012 21:32 NicksonReyes wrote: Yeah, I get that the dude made a mistake, but now I feel bad for him. Admitting the mistake and an apology would've been enough(for me) since Flash won the game anyway. I rather like seeing idiocy punished and that was one hell of an idiotic ruling. | ||
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
On June 28 2012 01:28 HighTemper wrote: That's just too harsh imo, the referee made, although not the best, an acceptable call to continue the game. The corrupted save game was not his fault. Are you judging from his performance in the Ro16 against 3 royal roaders? And also he's not performing that well in the PL atm. Not a fan for both players, but this S-class clash might well be the best series of this OSL. Don't let me down Fanta, beat soO... Have you looked at Fanta's osl runs lately, the other SKT players basically join the OSL to give fantasy stepping stones to ro4(or higher), used to be hyuk's job now its soo's. The Chinese even have a nickname for hyuk, hes the greatest general, why? because he always sacrifices himself for the prince (fantasy's nickname). | ||
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NicksonReyes
Philippines4431 Posts
On June 28 2012 00:50 ppshchik wrote: I don't see Flash beating Fantasy if Fantasy advances to RO4, Fantasy is on fire lately. Yeah Fantasy is definitely on fire lately. With his current 2-loss streak including a game against classic, I don't see him losing against Flash on a Bo5. | ||
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Piste
6179 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On June 27 2012 09:56 Caihead wrote: wait you mean they didn't upload games of GO? I was looking forward to watching those Here's the entire VOD (3 hour +): (eSportsTV is now uploading not only individual VODs for each game but the whole segment as well for the inbetween stuff.) | ||
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EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
On June 27 2012 18:24 NicksonReyes wrote: Well, I was disappointed that shine decided to go kwanro and tried to cheese the life out of flash, so I don't think he did pretty well, but I'm glad Flash's long TvZ streak(that began with a win against shine iirc) was ended with a pretty awesome cheese, not some boring rush with a streak of luck. Games 1 and 3 are awesome. What did you expect him to do? Try and beat Flash TvZ in five macro games? The last time Flash lost a bo5 series to a Zerg was against Effort in the Korean Air OSL, and how did that happen? Ling runbys in the first five minutes. When I was watching the series I thought the same thing, "fuck this guy going all-in every game", but if you think about it, preparing five aggressive builds/all-ins was absolutely the right thing to do. Flash is known to play greedy and cut corners, and the best time to deal damage and take an advantage against him is within the first five minutes. You can fault Shine for his execution, but strategically he was doing the right thing. | ||
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beachbeachy
United States509 Posts
On June 28 2012 16:26 NicksonReyes wrote: Yeah Fantasy is definitely on fire lately. With his current 2-loss streak including a game against classic, I don't see him losing against Flash on a Bo5. Flash's peak play is greater than anyone's peak play. He never 'slumps' and his mental fortitude is never lacking. I think everyone can agree on this? What I'm getting to is that is that if flash brings his best game and fantasy brings his, flash will come out on top. Going off flash's track record, i never see him as the underdog. | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On June 29 2012 13:44 beachbeachy wrote: Flash's peak play is greater than anyone's peak play. He never 'slumps' and his mental fortitude is never lacking. I think everyone can agree on this? What I'm getting to is that is that if flash brings his best game and fantasy brings his, flash will come out on top. Going off flash's track record, i never see him as the underdog. I disagree that his peak is greater than everyone elses (hes lost to other top players in many big proleague games and starleague series before) I've seen him slump before (even after his prime back to back msl/osl bowouts vs classic and hyuk among others), and his will and mental fortitude was surely broken after the power outage game. So I don't agree with all that. I mean since the start of 2011 I think hes won 1 starleague, he's no where near as dominant as 2010. I'm giving Fantasy a good shot after the proleague finals game. I wouldn't put much stock into a mere 2 game losing streak. Fantasy will be well prepared for the bo5. I may be completely wrong though, so we will see. | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
On June 29 2012 22:29 Nick_54 wrote: I disagree that his peak is greater than everyone elses (hes lost to other top players in many big proleague games and starleague series before) I've seen him slump before (even after his prime back to back msl/osl bowouts vs classic and hyuk among others), and his will and mental fortitude was surely broken after the power outage game. So I don't agree with all that. I mean since the start of 2011 I think hes won 1 starleague, he's no where near as dominant as 2010. I'm giving Fantasy a good shot after the proleague finals game. I wouldn't put much stock into a mere 2 game losing streak. Fantasy will be well prepared for the bo5. I may be completely wrong though, so we will see. I don't think there can be any debate that Flash's peak was greater than anybody still playing the game. I can't really compare Flash's peak to Nada's, Oov's, or Savior's; each prospered in different times which makes direct comparison difficult. But this is beside the point, Flash is not playing like 2010 Flash as you stated. Despite Flash not playing like he did in 2010, he's still Flash, possibly the GOAT, who is hungry to take home the final BW title and claim his place as having the most major tournament wins. I think everyone can agree that the series will be close, based largely on the PL finals game. Still though, I can't see giving Fanta anything better than a 45% chance on taking a BO5 from Flash. I think we're in for a treat. I only hope it can live up to their MSL semifinal BO5. Kind of unfair to say "since the start of 2011 he's only won 1 starleague". How many starleagues have their been since then? 2 OSLs and 2 MSLs excluding the one we're in right now, of which Flash won 1 of them. While having wrist problems and surgery? | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10203 Posts
On June 29 2012 13:44 beachbeachy wrote: Flash's peak play is greater than anyone's peak play. He never 'slumps' and his mental fortitude is never lacking. I think everyone can agree on this? What I'm getting to is that is that if flash brings his best game and fantasy brings his, flash will come out on top. Going off flash's track record, i never see him as the underdog. no he has "slumped" a little bit. But considering, since he's so good, when he's playing, say at an A-class ranking, people will scream slump. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
On June 30 2012 01:21 revy wrote: I don't think there can be any debate that Flash's peak was greater than anybody still playing the game. I can't really compare Flash's peak to Nada's, Oov's, or Savior's; each prospered in different times which makes direct comparison difficult. But this is beside the point, Flash is not playing like 2010 Flash as you stated. Despite Flash not playing like he did in 2010, he's still Flash, possibly the GOAT, who is hungry to take home the final BW title and claim his place as having the most major tournament wins. I think everyone can agree that the series will be close, based largely on the PL finals game. Still though, I can't see giving Fanta anything better than a 45% chance on taking a BO5 from Flash. I think we're in for a treat. I only hope it can live up to their MSL semifinal BO5. Kind of unfair to say "since the start of 2011 he's only won 1 starleague". How many starleagues have their been since then? 2 OSLs and 2 MSLs excluding the one we're in right now, of which Flash won 1 of them. While having wrist problems and surgery? God I want fantasy to advance. TvT would be so epic considering were nearly out of scbw and they could take forever with players of this caliber (more game time hehe). With fantasy's current play he could push Flash to game5. Would be pretty epic to see flash win and then take the finals against Jangbi (hoping Jangbi advances). Flash vs soo would be too one sided.. TvZ is FUN to watch when flash isn't playing... most zergs have no chance. (zero could take a game or two though lol) Flash/Jangbi final would be pretty cool. Flash would obv have the advantage so were going to see some real innovative play coming from Janbgi. Funky timings and shit expected. He might throw one macro macro game in there like his game on pathfinder vs flash last season (I think that was the game... he had like 30 gates or something insane lol... just 200/200ed and overran flash) Would also be fucking epic to watch another Fantasy/Jangbi finals too  That game5 last season was INSANE. Would be rooting for both Fanta and Jangbi if they both advance. Fanta cause hes on fire, and Jangbi cause last season was epic.GHAA so many crazy combos last OSL is gonna be EPIC!Sorry for the lack of love Zero haha. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On June 29 2012 22:29 Nick_54 wrote: I disagree that his peak is greater than everyone elses (hes lost to other top players in many big proleague games and starleague series before) I've seen him slump before (even after his prime back to back msl/osl bowouts vs classic and hyuk among others), and his will and mental fortitude was surely broken after the power outage game. So I don't agree with all that. I mean since the start of 2011 I think hes won 1 starleague, he's no where near as dominant as 2010. I'm giving Fantasy a good shot after the proleague finals game. I wouldn't put much stock into a mere 2 game losing streak. Fantasy will be well prepared for the bo5. I may be completely wrong though, so we will see. Your reason for his peak not being greater than everyone else's is that... he's lost to other top players before? What? His peak is making every final in a year, winning winner's league, proleague and WCG. Pretty sure that makes up for "losing to other top players" before. Flash has NEVER slumped over a significant period of time. People say that Flash is slumping when his win rate falls below 65% for a bit. Fantasy's win rate overall is ~61%. Flash's overall TVT win rate is over THIRTEEN PERCENT higher than Fantasy's. That's incredible. | ||
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nbaker
United States1341 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On June 30 2012 07:23 GolemMadness wrote: Your reason for his peak not being greater than everyone else's is that... he's lost to other top players before? What? His peak is making every final in a year, winning winner's league, proleague and WCG. Pretty sure that makes up for "losing to other top players" before. Flash has NEVER slumped over a significant period of time. People say that Flash is slumping when his win rate falls below 65% for a bit. Fantasy's win rate overall is ~61%. Flash's overall TVT win rate is over THIRTEEN PERCENT higher than Fantasy's. That's incredible. I guess I interpretted peak differently than you did. If you are talking about best accomplishments then yes his peak is better than anyone elses. I guess I compare a players peak is when two players have ample preperation for the most important events. He's lost his fair share of big matches as well like the MSL finals to Jaedong, OSL finals to Effort, winners league final to Bisu, and the 0-2 to Fantasy and Bisu in the most recent proleague finals. I guess what I'm saying is when players like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, Effort, and Fantasy bring their A+ game they are more than capable of beating Flash even when he is on point as well. I think Fantasy showed this when he narrowly lost 2-3 in the GSL finals and defeated Flash in the proleague finals. Sorry if I'm coming off as a Flash hater. He is the best player and I love to watch him play, but I don't think hes head and shoulders above all others. Other S class players vs T can defeat him in a best of 5 and they have before. I'm gonna drop this though, I guess we'll find out in a few weeks whos right. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
Flash at his peak has played more Bo5 than anyone else. He has played more PL games than anyone else at their peak. He has won more than anyone else, despite a workload that very few people have known in their carrier, and the need to inovate constantly because he never really had the opportunity to hide his strats. The only thing that you can hold against Flash at his peak is that he was only winning 80% of his games. Yes he can lose, yes he's no invicible. But he's the closest one has ever been too, and I include in that NaDa, Oov sAviOr and whoever else you want. Yes he's lost some finals, but he has been in so many that's ridiculous to hold that against him. Just look at Fantasy in finals, he's what, 1-3 ? Should I remind every Bisu fan of the Mind final or the constant preliminary failures ? I won't dismiss Fanta because I think he's in incredible shape, he's got the talent and that Flash is not peaking anymore, but if one had to bet on someone on 50-50 odds, well, I don't think it would be reasonnable to bet against Flash. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On June 30 2012 09:43 Nick_54 wrote: I guess I interpretted peak differently than you did. If you are talking about best accomplishments then yes his peak is better than anyone elses. I guess I compare a players peak is when two players have ample preperation for the most important events. He's lost his fair share of big matches as well like the MSL finals to Jaedong, OSL finals to Effort, winners league final to Bisu, and the 0-2 to Fantasy and Bisu in the most recent proleague finals. I guess what I'm saying is when players like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, Effort, and Fantasy bring their A+ game they are more than capable of beating Flash even when he is on point as well. I think Fantasy showed this when he narrowly lost 2-3 in the GSL finals and defeated Flash in the proleague finals. Sorry if I'm coming off as a Flash hater. He is the best player and I love to watch him play, but I don't think hes head and shoulders above all others. Other S class players vs T can defeat him in a best of 5 and they have before. I'm gonna drop this though, I guess we'll find out in a few weeks whos right. Anyone is capable of beating Flash. That doesn't change the fact that when it comes to a Bo5, he's the clear favourite against anyone. Since 2012, he's played 19 Bo5's. He's won 17 of those. Bisu has never beaten Flash in a Bo5, Fantasy has never beaten Flash in a Bo5. Jaedong's lost three straight now. Yes, Fantasy is a very strong player who can beat Flash, but beating him in a Bo5 is an extremely rare feat. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
Shine!!!! | ||
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