Loser makes some really poor decisions, causing him to get owned in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games.
My heart is racing right now, this is an important match for both teams. Stars needs to win this to keep their position above CJ and SKT, and SKT needs to win this to secure a position for playoffs. Sadly if SKT loses this, I think they might just be out of the final four T_T The stakes are very high. PLEASE SKT, WIN!
On February 22 2012 20:02 Hyde wrote: Woah! Amazing banner O_O thanks Kiett!
My heart is racing right now, this is an important match for both teams. Stars needs to win this to keep their position above CJ and SKT, and SKT needs to win this to secure a position for playoffs. Sadly if SKT loses this, I think they might just be out of the final four T_T The stakes are very high. PLEASE SKT, WIN!
I agree mate. Very important match for us in particular. We've been so up-and-down this season. We desperately need to get a string of wins going.
On February 22 2012 20:02 Hyde wrote: Woah! Amazing banner O_O thanks Kiett!
My heart is racing right now, this is an important match for both teams. Stars needs to win this to keep their position above CJ and SKT, and SKT needs to win this to secure a position for playoffs. Sadly if SKT loses this, I think they might just be out of the final four T_T The stakes are very high. PLEASE SKT, WIN!
I agree mate. Very important match for us in particular. We've been so up-and-down this season. We desperately need to get a string of wins going.
Yeah, if we beat Stars tonight, our chances of staying within play-off spots is good. Hopefully we take out STX as well and keep the momentum (although STX has had our number all season long). Really need FBB to pull through for us.
i dont get it? was it just he didn't think he could outmicro the mutas with his wraiths? didn't haver enough? no turrets? i get it wasn't a great spot but...its soo
Edit: I don't know why a top progamer won't change his builds based on position. Light's build would've been much better at one of the lower spots. But for the top position the wall was horrible.
A) When you see hydras you cancel a starport and immediately start tank production with marines. Not only that for this build to work at this position you need an scv below factory so tank comes out to the right.
B) But knowing this because Leta did it before, Soo immediately pressures. At this point there is nothing light can do to get his tank out the right side.
C) Then he chose to let 5 hydras in for a chance to get a tank out in main. Best choice for Soo here is actually to attack the bunker because Light made only one marine. Soo should've been able to tell this from the bunker sound and dps. Then he could've chose to attack the bunker UNDER the barracks for incredible pressure. Not only did light have only one marine, any tanks coming out would be sniped, and wraiths are paper planes. with marine dps it would take forever for it to kill hydras. Then as any reinforcements come it would be over.
D) But Soo decided to march hydras in, which isn't a bad choice because he assumed there were more marines in bunker. This is actually the second most optimal choice because 5 hydras do quite well vs scvs, and he has the option of killing the scv below factory to force tank to come out to the ramp.
E) Then light manages to lose the tank anyway. It's over by this point.
I didn't see how the game opened (nor do I remember how Leta opened) but if executed correctly, Soo's build is a hard counter to Light's.
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Such an awful choice by Light to go for a tech build given the location forces such a bad wall-in. If he plays standard rax-CC into 5rax he's such a big favourite over Soo. Why, Light?
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
i love SKT fans. remember when you guys were spamming bisu's photo in games that weren't even involving SKT?
On February 22 2012 20:20 yepenaxa wrote: im sorry i was late, but why did light lift that barrack? who was it last time that he lifted the baracks also to let lings in?
wall was not ling tight in the game versus crazy hydra ... although in these game he lifted out the barracks because the tank spwan outside of the factory instead of inside the base .
On February 22 2012 20:20 yepenaxa wrote: im sorry i was late, but why did light lift that barrack? who was it last time that he lifted the baracks also to let lings in?
wall was not ling tight in the game versus crazy hydra ... although in these game he lifted out the barracks because the tank spwan outside of the factory instead of inside the base .
but was it ultralisk tight? :p damn light getting the bad luck of baracks lift vs z
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
On February 22 2012 20:20 yepenaxa wrote: im sorry i was late, but why did light lift that barrack? who was it last time that he lifted the baracks also to let lings in?
wall was not ling tight in the game versus crazy hydra ... although in these game he lifted out the barracks because the tank spwan outside of the factory instead of inside the base .
but was it ultralisk tight? :p damn light getting the bad luck of baracks lift vs z
left barracks and supply wall on the right can block zealot and goons for sure it can block fat ultralisk but it won't block zerglings.
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
i'm a big flash fan too, i hope im not as obnoxious as you guys make flash fans to be
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
not a very nice thing to do.
Talking about Flash in a game where Flash isn't playing is also not a very nice thing to do.
I have to say I feel a bit cheated, but props to SK for once again coming up with an interesting build. Bisu can't catch a break atm, but if I was a Zerg I would've attempted to do exactly the same thing.
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
not a very nice thing to do.
Talking about Flash in a game where Flash isn't playing is also not a very nice thing to do.
lol at all the skt anti-fans click yes on that poll. anyone honest with themselves will know that was a shitty game. why put someone who actually comes to this thread to pick good games through watching a 3 minutes 3 hatch ling allin?
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
not a very nice thing to do.
Talking about Flash in a game where Flash isn't playing is also not a very nice thing to do.
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
not a very nice thing to do.
Talking about Flash in a game where Flash isn't playing is also not a very nice thing to do.
talking about someone is not nice? ok.
It depends who is the one being talked about. If it's flash on a thread where flash isn't playing, it's not nice.
I was actually wondering for the longest time ever, why don't more Zergs do early ling attacks like this on this map - the choke is way too wide for an FFE to be safe :s
On February 22 2012 20:30 InDaHouse wrote: So much for Bisu probe being alive. Still didn't get to scout Soulkeys all-in.
thats not an all-in...
How was that not an all-in? He was making nothing but lings
He could have stopped making lings if bisu held it off and drone?
He would have been severely behind (too much Larvae on Lings) had Bisu hold that (save for taking severe dmg in return which is besides teh point). No matter though, all-in or no, SK won.
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
On February 22 2012 20:30 InDaHouse wrote: So much for Bisu probe being alive. Still didn't get to scout Soulkeys all-in.
thats not an all-in...
How was that not an all-in? He was making nothing but lings
He could have stopped making lings if bisu held it off and drone?
No, thats was pretty all-in, with so many lings, you'll be quite behind economically, especially if your lings do no damage...or just run into a few cannons. The probe needed to stay alive.
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
Yeah but close to the protoss base? It's gonna be something fishy
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
not a very nice thing to do.
Talking about Flash in a game where Flash isn't playing is also not a very nice thing to do.
talking about someone is not nice? ok.
It depends who is the one being talked about. If it's flash on a thread where flash isn't playing, it's not nice.
it was a simple comparison, I'm sure no one believes that Flash is invincible or something.
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
yeah i think bisu just assumed SK would play standard and did not bother scouting..
On February 22 2012 20:36 Motivate wrote: soulkey's peak elo is 2227... surprisingly less than i thought given his current skill (albeit he's peaking right now)
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
The tip-off was that he got gas before taking his natural (3rd hatch). Seeing such early gas and such late 3rd hatch, Bisu should have played safe with atleast another cannon, probably 2 more for 3 cannons total.
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
Yeah but close to the protoss base? It's gonna be something fishy
I'm quite sure Bisu never scouted the location of the 3rd. Generally the probe doesn't look for the 3rd until later on. I think what Bisu could've scouted was that soulkey's first 100 gas wasn't spent on lair.
On February 22 2012 20:30 InDaHouse wrote: So much for Bisu probe being alive. Still didn't get to scout Soulkeys all-in.
thats not an all-in...
How was that not an all-in? He was making nothing but lings
He could have stopped making lings if bisu held it off and drone?
No, thats was pretty all-in, with so many lings, you'll be quite behind economically, especially if your lings do no damage...or just run into a few cannons. The probe needed to stay alive.
I'm flabbergastes this is even debated upon. Don't people play and know broodwar anymore? If you go fast 3 hatch and cut drones to pump nothing but lings, you have the sole intention to end it before the Protoss gets a wall in his expo, preferable before 3 canons and 3 zealots. If you succeed with your bust, its a matter of sniping probes, destroying the pylon that powers the wall, and eliminating each zealot as it comes out. If not, you await a long painful death starting with being supply blocked, dts, reavers, too many ways to die.
On February 22 2012 20:11 Motivate wrote: people who say light's tvz rivals that of flash's are kidding themselves.
Yea one game means SOOO much, i apologize for never realising that.
I don't think flash would have fail to such build by soo .
Yea Flash is not playing, so why don't you guys stuff it on the LR threads of KT games? People are complaining about Bisu fans before, but i swear Flash fans are the new shit nowadays.. Good god, he has to pop up no matter which teams are playing, and it's not like the discussion involves anything meaningful either, just "Flash is God, unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible".
That said, i too was surprised that Light gg-ed so early.. I guess it was too late to start on E-bay or Cloak research, but i thought he maybe could do _something_.. i mean.. it's soO =/
Yeah.
If Flash get's his first lose, I will laugh at his play and insult his fans even if I get banned.
not a very nice thing to do.
Talking about Flash in a game where Flash isn't playing is also not a very nice thing to do.
talking about someone is not nice? ok.
It depends who is the one being talked about. If it's flash on a thread where flash isn't playing, it's not nice.
it was a simple comparison, I'm sure no one believes that Flash is invincible or something.
I mean if they do,they have problems.
lol, i don't see how that comparison was anywhere near as bad as the time when all those idiots were spamming bisu pics in all the LRs.
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
Yeah but close to the protoss base? It's gonna be something fishy
I'm quite sure Bisu never scouted the location of the 3rd. Generally the probe doesn't look for the 3rd until later on. I think what Bisu could've scouted was that soulkey's first 100 gas wasn't spent on lair.
Yep, unlike us Bisu doesn't know where Zerg's base are >.<
No comments on the Gas thing, or SK could have morphed lair at his 3rd :3
On February 22 2012 20:30 Gamegene wrote: "can't read my poker face"
damn straight.
lol I was thinking the same thing...
Didnt catch the start....did he underestimate the amount of lings coming out from zerg? One cannon was being too optimistic.
Hidden second hatchery made it hard to estimate the amount of lings. I'm surprised he didn't play safer, after all he should have known it was a hidden hatch somewhere O.o
Taking 3rd before Natural is pretty common in ZvP though? I see it all the time o.O
yeah i think bisu just assumed SK would play standard and did not bother scouting..
No, wrong. Bisu scouted the further locations, expecting the normal far expansion into macro build that zergs typically do. Proxy hatch speedling was completely out of his mind.
On February 22 2012 20:32 Kiante wrote: lol at all the skt anti-fans click yes on that poll. anyone honest with themselves will know that was a shitty game. why put someone who actually comes to this thread to pick good games through watching a 3 minutes 3 hatch ling allin?
More like frustrated SKT fans who are tired of bisu costing us matches
why do people always try and counter attack terran at the most inappropriate of times? base trade against T is a bad idea for the most part. :< yet people still do it. it's almost like they're too stubborn to fall back and defend.
After everything opening up like as normal as the moon in the sky, Zero decided to do that... The game should have continued. I mean, even if he broke broke the defenses, his attack was contingent on Fantasy being across the map. Where else would he have been if not at Zero's own front door? I see that decision-making as suspect.
On February 22 2012 20:51 cmen15 wrote: LOL sick counter attack???
FYI
counter-attack: an attack a player makes after the opponent engages and loses most or all of his army, while you have enough remaining, in addition with your fresh reinforcement.
backstab: an attack a player makes once the main force of the opponent leaves his base, leaving an opening to do massive damage, possible ending the game.
still, wonder why fantasy repaired the depot instaed of the bunker
On February 22 2012 20:54 Kazius wrote: So far, 0 for 3 in what I thought would happen. All that's left is for BeSt to lose to a mediocre Terran for me to be completely stumped.
On February 22 2012 20:32 Kiante wrote: lol at all the skt anti-fans click yes on that poll. anyone honest with themselves will know that was a shitty game. why put someone who actually comes to this thread to pick good games through watching a 3 minutes 3 hatch ling allin?
More like frustrated SKT fans who are tired of bisu costing us matches
A fairweather fan indeed if you forget that last Porleague Bisu got most wins all-time and was Regular Season MVP. Tut tut never doubt Bisu in the long run.
On February 22 2012 20:54 thopol wrote: After everything opening up like as normal as the moon in the sky, Zero decided to do that... The game should have continued. I mean, even if he broke broke the defenses, his attack was contingent on Fantasy being across the map. Where else would he have been if not at Zero's own front door? I see that decision-making as suspect.
Actually with that amount of lings and muta that initial task force of mnm could have been flanked and destroyed easily ... gg anyway.
On February 22 2012 20:54 thopol wrote: After everything opening up like as normal as the moon in the sky, Zero decided to do that... The game should have continued. I mean, even if he broke broke the defenses, his attack was contingent on Fantasy being across the map. Where else would he have been if not at Zero's own front door? I see that decision-making as suspect.
Actually with that amount of lings and muta that initial task force of mnm could have been flanked and destroyed easily ... gg anyway.
That's what I mean pretty much. The aggression should have been broken and the game should have continued. It seems like the best Zero could hope for is base trade, which is just nuts.
On February 22 2012 20:55 Ornithorynquez wrote: Could be cool if in the next game one of these players don't stupidly die before the 8 minute mark.
some short 8-min well planned, well-executed games are better than 30 min long-drawn game that are a result of sloppy lpays from both players. just my opinion.
[03:56] <Hyde_> bisu loses [03:56] <Hyde_> recommend shit game [03:56] <Hyde_> fantasy wins [03:56] <Hyde_> don't recommend shit game
This is because Bisu has godlike PvZ , if Flash looses a game no matter how shitty it will be i bet u will recomend it just because someone managed to defeat Flash, but yeah i really dunno why i pressed yes atm that games was shit as hell haha, blame emotions
[03:56] <Hyde_> bisu loses [03:56] <Hyde_> recommend shit game [03:56] <Hyde_> fantasy wins [03:56] <Hyde_> don't recommend shit game
This is because Bisu has godlike PvZ , if Flash looses a game no matter how shitty it will be i bet u will recomend it just because someone managed to defeat Flash, but yeah i really dunno why i pressed yes atm that games was shit as hell haha, blame emotions
The recommended game system is designed for people who haven't watched the games, to come in and work out which vods to watch. If i wasn't watching this live, came to the live report OP, and saw that score, bisu vs SK pvz, i would be like fuck yeah!. then i would be subject to a 5 minute 3 hatch 3 ling allin. id' be pretty fucking dissapointed. people need to think rather than just delighting in being skt anti-fans all the time.
best is practivally parking here reminds me of a teammate in 4v4 fastest map in iccup last night the game was all crazy while he just walled off and massed carriers, he moved out just in time when we already finished all the opponent
On February 22 2012 21:14 yepenaxa wrote: best is practivally parking here reminds me of a teammate in 4v4 fastest map in iccup last night the game was all crazy while he just walled off and massed carriers, he moved out just in time when we already finished all the opponent
After huge battle, 128 vs 97 in supply in favour of best. i guess those earlier upgrades really paid off even though Best's zealots and archons were stuck behind goons for 1/2 the fight.
Really nice PvP. Great mindgames and gameplan by Shy, but Best's impeccable macro and reaction pulls through in the end (- and the fact that he moved on to templar tech while Shy sticked to reavers for maybe too long).
So basically, Shy was ahead from the start with an earlier expo, but just a little. He turned it into a solid lead with the nexus snipe at Best's third, but Best mitigated the disadvantage with a nice scarab shot at Shy's third. Shy was still ahead, but Best seemed to be macroing a bit better. Things were pretty neck and neck, but Shy was neglecting his templar tech entirely. During the big battle at Best's fourth, he got off the money storms on Shy's reaver/shuttles. The camera mostly missed it, but Best sniped a shuttle with at least one reaver in it and that took the legs out of Shy's army. Best may have won the battle without it, but that snipe meant that he had a substantial materiel advantage afterwards and was able to counterpush for the win. GG.
The games tonight were generally pretty disappointing, but of course it was fun watching in any case.
Thanks for the stream nana, thanks for the company everyone. 'Night.
On February 22 2012 21:23 thopol wrote: So basically, Shy was ahead from the start with an earlier expo, but just a little. He turned it into a solid lead with the nexus snipe at Best's third, but Best mitigated the disadvantage with a nice scarab shot at Shy's third. Shy was still ahead, but Best seemed to be macroing a bit better. Things were pretty neck and neck, but Shy was neglecting his templar tech entirely. During the big battle at Best's fourth, he got off the money storms on Shy's reaver/shuttles. The camera mostly missed it, but Best sniped a shuttle with at least one reaver in it and that took the legs out of Shy's army. Best may have won the battle without it, but that snipe meant that he had a substantial materiel advantage afterwards and was able to counterpush for the win. GG.
I've never really liked Shy, but I was impressed when he took down Best's mineral only. Eventually Shy was just out-classed... taking his mineral only before Best, killing off Best's mineral only; how do you end up at even supply after that?
On February 22 2012 21:23 thopol wrote: Best may have won the battle without it, but that snipe meant that he had a substantial materiel advantage afterwards and was able to counterpush for the win.
Did you spell it that way on purpose!? If so, I'm impressed.
How can you say this for game #2 Kiett? "Loser screws up and rolls over and dies in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games." Ehhh apparently I watched an entirely different game. Bisu did not screw up, Soulkey read Bisus play 100% and knew he was going for a very safe play on a big map, charging in with speedlings from help of a hidden-close-placed 3rd hatchery while Bisus scouting probe is going for what-he-believes is the location of Soulkeys 3rd. Hence the quick and silent death of a PvZ Τιτάν.
Even if you are a fan of SKT1 (which I am) you have to acknowledge losses and learn from them.
On February 22 2012 23:22 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: How can you say this for game #2 Kiett? "Loser screws up and rolls over and dies in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games." Ehhh apparently I watched an entirely different game. Bisu did not screw up, Soulkey read Bisus play 100% and knew he was going for a very safe play on a big map, charging in with speedlings from help of a hidden-close-placed 3rd hatchery while Bisus scouting probe is going for what-he-believes is the location of Soulkeys 3rd. Hence the quick and silent death of a PvZ Τιτάν.
Even if you are a fan of SKT1 (which I am) you have to acknowledge losses and learn from them.
Shape up, Pal.
Eh, however much I love Bisu, he played that game crap; and even if you don't agree that there were plenty of ways he could have defended the all-in and survived (of which there were), that still doesn't make the game itself any more exciting lol.
On February 22 2012 23:22 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: How can you say this for game #2 Kiett? "Loser screws up and rolls over and dies in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games." Ehhh apparently I watched an entirely different game. Bisu did not screw up, Soulkey read Bisus play 100% and knew he was going for a very safe play on a big map, charging in with speedlings from help of a hidden-close-placed 3rd hatchery while Bisus scouting probe is going for what-he-believes is the location of Soulkeys 3rd. Hence the quick and silent death of a PvZ Τιτάν.
Even if you are a fan of SKT1 (which I am) you have to acknowledge losses and learn from them.
Shape up, Pal.
recommended games section is to benefit people who come to the LR thread before they go to watch the vods, to see which vods are worth watching. If you honestly think you'd recommend someone watch that game, go and get your head checked. same with the other 2 games from the first 3 games of the series. they were short, boring, and not worth watching. Someone coming to this thread for the purpose of vod watching will look at recommended and go watch the pvp, which was by far the best game of the night, regardless of which team you support.
On February 22 2012 23:22 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: How can you say this for game #2 Kiett? "Loser screws up and rolls over and dies in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games." Ehhh apparently I watched an entirely different game. Bisu did not screw up, Soulkey read Bisus play 100% and knew he was going for a very safe play on a big map, charging in with speedlings from help of a hidden-close-placed 3rd hatchery while Bisus scouting probe is going for what-he-believes is the location of Soulkeys 3rd. Hence the quick and silent death of a PvZ Τιτάν.
Even if you are a fan of SKT1 (which I am) you have to acknowledge losses and learn from them.
On February 22 2012 23:22 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: How can you say this for game #2 Kiett? "Loser screws up and rolls over and dies in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games." Ehhh apparently I watched an entirely different game. Bisu did not screw up, Soulkey read Bisus play 100% and knew he was going for a very safe play on a big map, charging in with speedlings from help of a hidden-close-placed 3rd hatchery while Bisus scouting probe is going for what-he-believes is the location of Soulkeys 3rd. Hence the quick and silent death of a PvZ Τιτάν.
Even if you are a fan of SKT1 (which I am) you have to acknowledge losses and learn from them.
Shape up, Pal.
Really? You don't consider having a huge wide opening in your wall a screw up? There's a reason all those lings got in and Bisu died in about 3 minutes. Sure, props to Soulkey for the appropriately chosen build and the good execution, but that was more about Bisu failing to FFE properly and having only 1 cannon to compensate for the weak wall than it was any spectacular play by SK. Regardless, it was hardly interesting or entertaining, to say the least, and wasn't a game I would recommend anyone to watch unless they really enjoyed watching probes get massacred or something.
Ahh so many responded I don't know who to quote.... anyway I didn't mean to piss you people off, my post was made with 50% seriousness and 50% irony.
I never stated, anywhere in my post, that the game was good and should be recommended. I only stated the obvious, bisu got demolished and not even a pylon above the gateway could have changed that outcome as he had but one cannon ready. I think the game was really interesting, not out of a results point of view but out of how it all made sense. Maybe I should explain myself better.
Again I will force the quote from Kiett "Loser screws up and rolls over and dies in less than 10 minutes. Watch if you're really bored, or you like short and crappy games."
First off, did the loser screw up and roll over and die in less than 10 minutes? Yes and no. I wouldn't call that game "screwing up" because all that went wrong was in bisus head. He thought A but Soulkey did not B or C but D. Therefor it was kindof an all-in/bo win in which Bisu came out looking pretty fucking stomped. He didnt screw up because his wall wasn't solid with 4-6 probes. How can you screw up when you don't know it's coming? Admittedly you could call it a screw up because the way Bisu read Soulkeys play, but you all seem so focused on "had he just made that wall tight" you are missing what's going on in the players heads.
Ok I think I've gone on too long already with the first part of the quote I'll just summarize my thoughts quicker from now on.
"Less than 10 minutes": hard for me to say anything there, the timer tells the truth. could have been quicker though, he put up a fight with those probes and zealots he managed to get out.
"Watch if you're really bored": this was one of those games that were really interesting to watch the first time, seeing bisus face when he realizes what soulkey just did etc. but i agree, I'd only watch this ever again if I was really bored.
"or if you like short and crappy games": short and aggressive.
You guys do realize that bisu is 9-6 while Jaedong is 10-5 this season...I don`t get while everyone is talking about Dong`s slump,while no one says anything like that for Bisu?
we can all agree the game sucked as a spectator so really it doesn't matter what the tone of a recommended game section is so long as it gets me to not watch it (which i ended up doing thanks to this dumb discussion actually so boo)
On February 23 2012 03:35 Vuk_91 wrote: You guys do realize that bisu is 9-6 while Jaedong is 10-5 this season...I don`t get while everyone is talking about Dong`s slump,while no one says anything like that for Bisu?
It's more because of Jaedong's games vs best where he just flat out died, canata which was depressing to watch, the really big mistake vs flying as well as the association with being on team 8 which isn't doing so well. Jaedong also hasn't gotten a win vs a main line up player, but he's on a win streak again since his win against Flying (all of his recent wins were in February as well) so I wouldn't worry about his form. Bisu hasn't had a good record either but he at least has shown dominant form vs Effort.
People were mainly talking about Jaedong's slump in January as well. Jaedong pre-February: 6-5 Bisu pre-February: 9-4
i have sad thoughts that rest of the games in this round will be generally bad after seeing that match Those games are deciding to get into playoff every set matters so i guess we gonna see a lot of cheese and timing attacks that will make games pretty soon ;/
This is the first time i laughed out loud at a BW game. Light - you're horrible. From the mismicro to the lifted rax into 2-port nothing and sudden gg. That was so bad. Korean gosu vs. International D+ at the WCG bad.
I don't know if this matters or not, but the simcity of Bisu was really bizarre. On Ground Zero protoss always make a neat little line with their pylon, gateway, and forge, but Bisu put his pylon behind his gateway and forge hence the large hole.
On February 23 2012 07:08 Ozarugold wrote: I don't know if this matters or not, but the simcity of Bisu was really bizarre. On Ground Zero protoss always make a neat little line with their pylon, gateway, and forge, but Bisu put his pylon behind his gateway and forge hence the large hole.
He must have thought he was playing SC2 where you would never put a pylon as part of your wall
If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
Tell it like it is Kiett we appreciate you making the thread.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
Get off your high horse, did you even watch the games? Don't accuse others of being biased when you don't even know what's going on
Completely forgot this. I was guessing who were going to win as I was clicking each results spoiler and my jaw is currently on the floor still at soO>Light and Bisu<Soulkey.
But Fantasy as awesome as ever. Yay!
EDIT: Oh lol just read the recommendations. I somehow get a feeling that those recommendations were more entertaining than the games. Guess I'm skipping 3 VODs.
On February 22 2012 20:30 InDaHouse wrote: So much for Bisu probe being alive. Still didn't get to scout Soulkeys all-in.
thats not an all-in...
How was that not an all-in? He was making nothing but lings
He could have stopped making lings if bisu held it off and drone?
No, thats was pretty all-in, with so many lings, you'll be quite behind economically, especially if your lings do no damage...or just run into a few cannons. The probe needed to stay alive.
I'm flabbergastes this is even debated upon. Don't people play and know broodwar anymore? If you go fast 3 hatch and cut drones to pump nothing but lings, you have the sole intention to end it before the Protoss gets a wall in his expo, preferable before 3 canons and 3 zealots. If you succeed with your bust, its a matter of sniping probes, destroying the pylon that powers the wall, and eliminating each zealot as it comes out. If not, you await a long painful death starting with being supply blocked, dts, reavers, too many ways to die.
Come on people, this is obvious.
SK made 8 speedlings. How is that allin?
He had an overlord there and saw only one cannon. Consequently he made 8 lings. He then attacked with those, and upon killing the cannon knew he could just win with lings, so he flooded lings to end the game. Yea, flooding lings like I guess you could say is "all-in"...but it was reactive to Bisu having only one cannon and the success of his initial 8 lings.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
Democracy isn't all that it's cracked up to be. People vote for a lot of different reasons, many of which not consistent with your own. This applies to BW games just as much as real life.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
Oh, I assure you, I spent no longer than 3 minutes randomly sampling old LR threads before finding a good 10 that used text recommendations. I could have included more, but I was hoping you'd get the point: It is far from being the exception.
The reason I chose not to include the polls was because there was a blatant discrepancy between them. Game 2 is recommended, while Games 1 and 3 were not, when all three were almost exactly the same. The victor goes for an aggressive attack, and the loser fails in his defense and dies completely (or attempts to pull off a really poor base trade, lol ZerO). What was different about Game 2 that warranted it a recommendation and Games 1 and 3 didn't? Oh right. Nothing. Except that it was Bisu who lost.
If you're a Bisu hater, there is little doubt that you might find Game 2 enjoyable, but the recommended games is not targeted at people who like watching Bisu fail. It's for people who want to watch really good games, and I would challenge you to somehow justify that the polls were accurate and that it was somehow a great game of BW, while sets 1 and 3 weren't. I don't mean to speak for every PL watcher or silence their opinions, but at the same time, I'm not going to go ahead and let people waste their time getting hyped up for what they anticipate, based on the polls, is going to be an epic match between two great players, and then get disappointed by a 6 minute ling all in.
And once again, if you think that by spending my time making an LR thread for this match when it's needed, then trying to direct viewers towards the only game that wasn't some short failure-ridden slaughterfest is "selling the BW community short," then I suggest you get off your ass and make the LR threads yourself. There was plenty of time for you to do it; the only reason I bothered was because the match was going to start and there was no thread. Pretty sure having no LR thread at all hurts the BW community more than my attempts to save them from awful games.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
Oh, I assure you, I spent no longer than 3 minutes randomly sampling old LR threads before finding a good 10 that used text recommendations. I could have included more, but I was hoping you'd get the point: It is far from being the exception.
The reason I chose not to include the polls was because there was a blatant discrepancy between them. Game 2 is recommended, while Games 1 and 3 were not, when all three were almost exactly the same. The victor goes for an aggressive attack, and the loser fails in his defense and dies completely (or attempts to pull off a really poor base trade, lol ZerO). What was different about Game 2 that warranted it a recommendation and Games 1 and 3 didn't? Oh right. Nothing. Except that it was Bisu who lost.
If you're a Bisu hater, there is little doubt that you might find Game 2 enjoyable, but the recommended games is not targeted at people who like watching Bisu fail. It's for people who want to watch really good games, and I would challenge you to somehow justify that the polls were accurate and that it was somehow a great game of BW, while sets 1 and 3 weren't. I don't mean to speak for every PL watcher or silence their opinions, but at the same time, I'm not going to go ahead and let people waste their time getting hyped up for what they anticipate, based on the polls, is going to be an epic match between two great players, and then get disappointed by a 6 minute ling all in.
And once again, if you think that by spending my time making an LR thread for this match when it's needed, then trying to direct viewers towards the only game that wasn't some short failure-ridden slaughterfest is "selling the BW community short," then I suggest you get off your ass and make the LR threads yourself. There was plenty of time for you to do it; the only reason I bothered was because the match was going to start and there was no thread. Pretty sure having no LR thread at all hurts the BW community more than my attempts to save them from awful games.
hahaha okok
Perhaps I'm over thinking things..
Our discussion is pretty pointless if you think about it..o.O It doesn't really matter..:[
I think games 1and 2 are perfectly fine to watch. They are excellent examples of how excellent players make mistakes that can be taken advantage of. Maybe now people will start looking for the small mistakes that flash makes. It's unfair to say that they just rolled over died. Both losers made an effort.
Rolling over and dying is kwanro vs calm 5pool vs 12hatch
On February 23 2012 17:57 Release wrote: I think games 1and 2 are perfectly fine to watch. They are excellent examples of how excellent players make mistakes that can be taken advantage of. Maybe now people will start looking for the small mistakes that flash makes. It's unfair to say that they just rolled over died. Both losers made an effort.
Rolling over and dying is kwanro vs calm 5pool vs 12hatch
Perhaps I didn't phrase it optimally, but the description was far from inaccurate. What does it matter how much "effort" Bisu puts into trying to attack zerglings with probes? As soon as those lings got into the nat and took down the cannon, that game was over unless Soulkey dropped dead from an aneurysm. Game 1 was roughly the same situation, where once the failure of a wall was put down (tanks spawn to the left of the factory outside of the base, forcing a barracks lift to get them inside), it didn't matter how much effort Light put in trying to fight Hydras with SCVs. He was dead in the water, and even he knew that; hell, he didn't even try to fight out the mutas and GG'd as soon as he saw the spire.
I mean, if you're interested in Pros making mistakes and failing, nobody's stopping you from watching the games. Feel free. I'm just assuming that that's not what most people look for in games. The fact that the last Flash vs. Jaedong was so overwhelmingly not recommended (78% No) gives proof to that, even though there was actually a lot more to that game than Flash rolling over JD in 8 minutes.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
Oh, I assure you, I spent no longer than 3 minutes randomly sampling old LR threads before finding a good 10 that used text recommendations. I could have included more, but I was hoping you'd get the point: It is far from being the exception.
The reason I chose not to include the polls was because there was a blatant discrepancy between them. Game 2 is recommended, while Games 1 and 3 were not, when all three were almost exactly the same. The victor goes for an aggressive attack, and the loser fails in his defense and dies completely (or attempts to pull off a really poor base trade, lol ZerO). What was different about Game 2 that warranted it a recommendation and Games 1 and 3 didn't? Oh right. Nothing. Except that it was Bisu who lost.
If you're a Bisu hater, there is little doubt that you might find Game 2 enjoyable, but the recommended games is not targeted at people who like watching Bisu fail. It's for people who want to watch really good games, and I would challenge you to somehow justify that the polls were accurate and that it was somehow a great game of BW, while sets 1 and 3 weren't. I don't mean to speak for every PL watcher or silence their opinions, but at the same time, I'm not going to go ahead and let people waste their time getting hyped up for what they anticipate, based on the polls, is going to be an epic match between two great players, and then get disappointed by a 6 minute ling all in.
And once again, if you think that by spending my time making an LR thread for this match when it's needed, then trying to direct viewers towards the only game that wasn't some short failure-ridden slaughterfest is "selling the BW community short," then I suggest you get off your ass and make the LR threads yourself. There was plenty of time for you to do it; the only reason I bothered was because the match was going to start and there was no thread. Pretty sure having no LR thread at all hurts the BW community more than my attempts to save them from awful games.
Actually if you look at it from a completely neutral point of view and analyze the games, that is not true at all.
Game 1 was Light failing by lifting his barracks and letting the hydras in, but with that wall position and the build order Soo chose, there wasn't really much he could have done except choose a better build order. Game 2 was actually not Bisu's fault at all. It wasn't an all-in from SK until he realized Bisu fell for his mind game. Bisu expected that SK went for a fast third in the usual positions (watch the vods, you can see that he sends his probe out to scout for the third) which would then go into a macro game. SK's strategy of taking the close expo to Bisu completely fooled him, and allowed him to sneak out lings which could avoid Bisu's scout probe in his main. That is why Bisu failed to wall and block the cannon. Since he was expecting a fast third, he didn't think there would be 8 lings waiting outside his main that early. The only real clue was the gas timing and the fact that the lair wasn't started in the main, but SK could have potentially put his lair at the 3rd so there was no real way for him to check unless he scouted it. Game 2 should definitely be recommended for the high level strategy if nothing else. Game 3 was just complete fail by Zero, since going for a backstab against terran never works.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
Oh, I assure you, I spent no longer than 3 minutes randomly sampling old LR threads before finding a good 10 that used text recommendations. I could have included more, but I was hoping you'd get the point: It is far from being the exception.
The reason I chose not to include the polls was because there was a blatant discrepancy between them. Game 2 is recommended, while Games 1 and 3 were not, when all three were almost exactly the same. The victor goes for an aggressive attack, and the loser fails in his defense and dies completely (or attempts to pull off a really poor base trade, lol ZerO). What was different about Game 2 that warranted it a recommendation and Games 1 and 3 didn't? Oh right. Nothing. Except that it was Bisu who lost.
If you're a Bisu hater, there is little doubt that you might find Game 2 enjoyable, but the recommended games is not targeted at people who like watching Bisu fail. It's for people who want to watch really good games, and I would challenge you to somehow justify that the polls were accurate and that it was somehow a great game of BW, while sets 1 and 3 weren't. I don't mean to speak for every PL watcher or silence their opinions, but at the same time, I'm not going to go ahead and let people waste their time getting hyped up for what they anticipate, based on the polls, is going to be an epic match between two great players, and then get disappointed by a 6 minute ling all in.
And once again, if you think that by spending my time making an LR thread for this match when it's needed, then trying to direct viewers towards the only game that wasn't some short failure-ridden slaughterfest is "selling the BW community short," then I suggest you get off your ass and make the LR threads yourself. There was plenty of time for you to do it; the only reason I bothered was because the match was going to start and there was no thread. Pretty sure having no LR thread at all hurts the BW community more than my attempts to save them from awful games.
Actually if you look at it from a completely neutral point of view and analyze the games, that is not true at all.
Game 1 was Light failing by lifting his barracks and letting the hydras in, but with that wall position and the build order Soo chose, there wasn't really much he could have done except choose a better build order. Game 2 was actually not Bisu's fault at all. It wasn't an all-in from SK until he realized Bisu fell for his mind game. Bisu expected that SK went for a fast third in the usual positions (watch the vods, you can see that he sends his probe out to scout for the third) which would then go into a macro game. SK's strategy of taking the close expo to Bisu completely fooled him, and allowed him to sneak out lings which could avoid Bisu's scout probe in his main. That is why Bisu failed to wall and block the cannon. Since he was expecting a fast third, he didn't think there would be 8 lings waiting outside his main that early. The only real clue was the gas timing and the fact that the lair wasn't started in the main, but SK could have potentially put his lair at the 3rd so there was no real way for him to check unless he scouted it. Game 2 should definitely be recommended for the high level strategy if nothing else. Game 3 was just complete fail by Zero, since going for a backstab against terran never works.
You're right in that perhaps Game 2 wasn't completely identical to the other two, but not recommending it is still consistent with the interests of the general viewing populace, as has been shown in previous matches. Compare Bisu vs. Soulkey with the last Flash vs. Jaedong match. Both games involved 2 high caliber players in a matchup that everyone was hyped up and excited about. Both games ended disappointingly in one player steamrolling over the other in 8 minutes or less. In both games, mind games play the largest role in deciding the victor, with Flash/Soulkey trying to bait Jaedong/Bisu into being greedy and attempting to get away with insufficient amounts of static defense, and JD/Bisu falling for it due to lack of scouting information, and getting crushed immediately for it. Hell, pretty much every game Flash has played this season represents the pinnacle of BW strategic development. And you know what? Nobody liked the FvJ game. It was overwhelmingly not recommended, with 61 No votes against 14 Yes. Kind of just shows that what people want when it comes to a good game is not mind games and high level strategy, but rather long games that are action-packed and go back and forth. Just because more people hate Bisu than they do Jaedong does not mean this game deserves recommendations more than that one did. And if you think both are worthy of recommendation, then that's fine. But I believe in consistency, and the polls definitely did not reflect that, which is why I chose to discard them. If the actual description of the game is inaccurate, then I'll change it, but tbh it's not my duty to analyze or summarize the game, merely to say if it was worth watching or not, based on the general trends of PL viewers that aren't blatantly anti-fans of a particular player.
Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
On February 23 2012 09:58 aupstar wrote: If you're not going to update OP with recommended games, don't create the thread.
There is a format that everyone sticks to and even though you may have an opinion on the games, your opinion does not necessarily reflect the general non-SKT/Bisu fanboy populace.
lol okay bro. For one, giving text recommendations IS an accepted format. Peoplehavedoneitplentyoftimesin thepast, and nowhere does it say polls are required. For another, what does this have to do with SKT/Bisu fans? Those games were BAD, and I don't care who was playing. I didn't recommend Fantasy's or SoO's games either, even though they won. Game 2 was not better than games 1 and 3 in any way, and yet people, quite predictably, voted yes for no reason other than Bisu lost. This was my way of eliminating bias and give recommendations solely on the actual value of the games themselves.
Lastly, if you don't want me to make OPs, no problem. But it's not like I called dibs on this thread days early; this match had no thread at barely half an hour before it started, so if it bothers you, maybe you should get to it and make it yourself instead waiting for someone else to do it and then bitching.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here.
Recommendations are based on the enjoyability of the game not "how good you the OP think the game is".
A one liner that's copy and pasted for every game that states how crappy "you the OP" think each game is goes against this principle.
You've managed to find a handful of games that have worded recommendations amongst the thousands of LR threads that are out there. Good for you. But it's the exception, not the norm.
I think you're selling the bw community short when you do things like this.
Oh, I assure you, I spent no longer than 3 minutes randomly sampling old LR threads before finding a good 10 that used text recommendations. I could have included more, but I was hoping you'd get the point: It is far from being the exception.
The reason I chose not to include the polls was because there was a blatant discrepancy between them. Game 2 is recommended, while Games 1 and 3 were not, when all three were almost exactly the same. The victor goes for an aggressive attack, and the loser fails in his defense and dies completely (or attempts to pull off a really poor base trade, lol ZerO). What was different about Game 2 that warranted it a recommendation and Games 1 and 3 didn't? Oh right. Nothing. Except that it was Bisu who lost.
If you're a Bisu hater, there is little doubt that you might find Game 2 enjoyable, but the recommended games is not targeted at people who like watching Bisu fail. It's for people who want to watch really good games, and I would challenge you to somehow justify that the polls were accurate and that it was somehow a great game of BW, while sets 1 and 3 weren't. I don't mean to speak for every PL watcher or silence their opinions, but at the same time, I'm not going to go ahead and let people waste their time getting hyped up for what they anticipate, based on the polls, is going to be an epic match between two great players, and then get disappointed by a 6 minute ling all in.
And once again, if you think that by spending my time making an LR thread for this match when it's needed, then trying to direct viewers towards the only game that wasn't some short failure-ridden slaughterfest is "selling the BW community short," then I suggest you get off your ass and make the LR threads yourself. There was plenty of time for you to do it; the only reason I bothered was because the match was going to start and there was no thread. Pretty sure having no LR thread at all hurts the BW community more than my attempts to save them from awful games.
Actually if you look at it from a completely neutral point of view and analyze the games, that is not true at all.
Game 1 was Light failing by lifting his barracks and letting the hydras in, but with that wall position and the build order Soo chose, there wasn't really much he could have done except choose a better build order. Game 2 was actually not Bisu's fault at all. It wasn't an all-in from SK until he realized Bisu fell for his mind game. Bisu expected that SK went for a fast third in the usual positions (watch the vods, you can see that he sends his probe out to scout for the third) which would then go into a macro game. SK's strategy of taking the close expo to Bisu completely fooled him, and allowed him to sneak out lings which could avoid Bisu's scout probe in his main. That is why Bisu failed to wall and block the cannon. Since he was expecting a fast third, he didn't think there would be 8 lings waiting outside his main that early. The only real clue was the gas timing and the fact that the lair wasn't started in the main, but SK could have potentially put his lair at the 3rd so there was no real way for him to check unless he scouted it. Game 2 should definitely be recommended for the high level strategy if nothing else. Game 3 was just complete fail by Zero, since going for a backstab against terran never works.
You're right in that perhaps Game 2 wasn't completely identical to the other two, but not recommending it is still consistent with the interests of the general viewing populace, as has been shown in previous matches. Compare Bisu vs. Soulkey with the last Flash vs. Jaedong match. Both games involved 2 high caliber players in a matchup that everyone was hyped up and excited about. Both games ended disappointingly in one player steamrolling over the other in 8 minutes or less. In both games, mind games play the largest role in deciding the victor, with Flash/Soulkey trying to bait Jaedong/Bisu into being greedy and attempting to get away with insufficient amounts of static defense, and JD/Bisu falling for it due to lack of scouting information, and getting crushed immediately for it. Hell, pretty much every game Flash has played this season represents the pinnacle of BW strategic development. And you know what? Nobody liked the FvJ game. It was overwhelmingly not recommended, with 61 No votes against 14 Yes. Kind of just shows that what people want when it comes to a good game is not mind games and high level strategy, but rather long games that are action-packed and go back and forth. Just because more people hate Bisu than they do Jaedong does not mean this game deserves recommendations more than that one did. And if you think both are worthy of recommendation, then that's fine. But I believe in consistency, and the polls definitely did not reflect that, which is why I chose to discard them. If the actual description of the game is inaccurate, then I'll change it, but tbh it's not my duty to analyze or summarize the game, merely to say if it was worth watching or not, based on the general trends of PL viewers that aren't blatantly anti-fans of a particular player.
I definitely do think that FvJ game was worthy of recommendation, but you are correct in that most people don't appreciate mind games and strategy and just want to see a tense back and forth macrofest. While I do enjoy those games as well, I also appreciate the subtle things players do. I think a neutral opinion would be "Do not watch if you want a macro game, but if you like mindgames then do" or something to that extent because otherwise someone like myself might pass over it and miss out on an unusual game. Oddly enough, people recommended that Flash vs Best game despite it not being as high level and simply being a bunker rush.
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
Flash said that build works 90% of the time the first time he used it. How can that just be luck then?
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
You can sugar coat it all you want, it was not a metagame mind-game. Bisu messed up his wall, SK saw that and punished him for it, there is absolutely nothing metagame/mindgame about it. If it was so 'meta/mindgame' then do you think SK would have gone for the bust if Bisu used the pylon as part of his wall? No, that would be idiotic to try and bust that
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
Flash said that build works 90% of the time the first time he used it. How can that just be luck then?
That might be more Flash than the build being good :D
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
Flash said that build works 90% of the time the first time he used it. How can that just be luck then?
He waited until he had 3 marines before he attacked so if it was scouted earlier, Best would have had some time to prepare.
Furthermore, Best had his buildings clumped (which is stated in the interview too) so we may have seen a different game if the buildings were spread out a lil more and range finished.
But having said that, I don't know how useful it would have been for Best to scout the mid barracks at the point he sent his probe (which was at a point where his cybernetics was almost finished and Flash was making his 3rd marine).
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
You can sugar coat it all you want, it was not a metagame mind-game. Bisu messed up his wall, SK saw that and punished him for it, there is absolutely nothing metagame/mindgame about it. If it was so 'meta/mindgame' then do you think SK would have gone for the bust if Bisu used the pylon as part of his wall? No, that would be idiotic to try and bust that
Wasn't it too early to gauge the strength of Bisu's wall when SK placed the hatchery at 3 o'clock? He may have adapted the build for speedlings after observing the wall-in and lack of second cannon, but it seems clear SK always had aggression/all-in/cheese in mind by putting down that expansion towards the toss base.
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
You can sugar coat it all you want, it was not a metagame mind-game. Bisu messed up his wall, SK saw that and punished him for it, there is absolutely nothing metagame/mindgame about it. If it was so 'meta/mindgame' then do you think SK would have gone for the bust if Bisu used the pylon as part of his wall? No, that would be idiotic to try and bust that
Wasn't it too early to gauge the strength of Bisu's wall when SK placed the hatchery at 3 o'clock? He may have adapted the build for speedlings after observing the wall-in and lack of second cannon, but it seems clear SK always had aggression/all-in/cheese in mind by putting down that expansion towards the toss base.
All that meant is that he was intending to do an aggressive early game
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
You can sugar coat it all you want, it was not a metagame mind-game. Bisu messed up his wall, SK saw that and punished him for it, there is absolutely nothing metagame/mindgame about it. If it was so 'meta/mindgame' then do you think SK would have gone for the bust if Bisu used the pylon as part of his wall? No, that would be idiotic to try and bust that
Wasn't it too early to gauge the strength of Bisu's wall when SK placed the hatchery at 3 o'clock? He may have adapted the build for speedlings after observing the wall-in and lack of second cannon, but it seems clear SK always had aggression/all-in/cheese in mind by putting down that expansion towards the toss base.
Indeed it was. His overlord had yet to reach Bisu's natural before he planted down the 3rd hatch. On the other hand, SK would probably still have gone for the ling attack, even if Bisu had built the in line pylon, as it takes 2 zealots to block the choke off, and Bisu only had 1 with no probe support. So the pylon was actually somewhat of a non-factor. Bisu was fooled into thinking SK was going for a macro game instead of an aggressive early attack and didn't think he'd need to immediately block the choke off with probes or build extra cannons. Still, it makes one wonder, why on earth would you even come out on a map like Ground Zero if you don't know how to make the standard FFE wall for it? :|
Aggressive hatch placement in ZvP is never about going for a ling runby. It's usually done for some sort of hydra build, either early game or mid-game. speedling rush is almost always a response to protoss having holes in his defense. It doesn't work as a build because the protoss can easily prevent it through good scouting or 2 cannons or probe block.
Soulkey's build isn't some sort of new ZvP play or jedi mind trick. He saw an opportunity for a quick win and went for it. Happens all the time.
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
It takes advantage of the fact that Best always waits till he makes core before scouting.
On February 23 2012 22:15 Sawamura wrote: Well no point making all the pointless rage at kiett because she is the one who created the LR thread and design so she is the boss . Nonetheless, it may be a little bias because of her rage at people recommending the game where bisu lost and the other two games which were not . Still I can't bite the hand that feeds me right ? ^_^.
The only bias was the results of that poll, so put your snarky comments elsewhere. T1 fan or not, can you objectively say that is a good game of Starcraft? Is that a game that you would want friends to watch? A game to introduce people to the world of SC?
No, it's not. The poll was a result was simply the result of mass-hatred and disdain towards one player, not because the game was good. Now because you call me out for being a fanboy, I'll like to point out that I greatly disliked the game where Bisu cannon-rushed Wooki.
Cannon rushing is pure cheese. What SK did was a high level mindgame. Would I recommend it for introducing someone to BW? Absolutely not. They wouldn't understand the subtleties of the game. Would I recommend it to friends who enjoy strategy? Absolutely. It was a brilliant play. Similarly, I would recommend the Flash vs Jaedong game where Flash rolled over JD with 5 marines, a medic, and a firebat, because he hit a specific timing exploiting JD's greed. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend the Flash vs Best game where Flash 7raxed into bunker rushing, because that was basically luck that Best's probe walked right past the forward rax.
The majority of the people who voted on the poll were probably simply Bisu anti-fans, but personally I recommended it because it was a unique build which exploited the current metagame.
It takes advantage of the fact that Best always waits till he makes core before scouting.
Man Flash is just too smart...He rarely plays a macro game vs Stork and Best,he usually goes for some early aggression/cheese and wins outright or gets nice advantage... At the moment Fantasy seems like the only person who can beat him.
During the last year Flash proved he can beat Best in any way. Now he just wants to get the longest winning streak and/or win all his proleague games. That's why he uses every chance to win the game.
EPT
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2011-2012 Proleague Season 1/Round 3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y0yxI.png)
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SK Telecom T1 vs Woongjin Stars ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gd6OZ.png)
n.Die_soO « Neo Outlier » 
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Bisu « Ground Zero » ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rXuSQ.png)
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