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On February 11 2012 15:09 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:57 Iplaythings wrote:On February 11 2012 14:53 Gara wrote:On February 11 2012 14:49 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:37 SgtPepper wrote:
damn, KT lost...
flash and stats looking strong as ever and rest of KT is underperforming... i mean cmon double weapon combined stats are 20-3 which is almost 90% winrate (87% to be exact) .. KT should do better than 9-5 when needs mostly like 1 of 3 games to win from rest of KT ... edit" im out of thread , looking forward for re ;D also drinking does not help ur team at all  KT just has no depth beyond Flash and Stats; Khan's aces in Jangbi and Stork may not be as strong, but Khan has at least two reliably A-class players in each race in Brave/Grape, Turn/Reality, and Shine/Roro. Saying that KT has no debth besides flash and stats is downright stupid when we've won the majority of our games 3-1 and 2 of em were with stats loosing (......) Please don't bring up KTFlash Stats because a 2-3 loss to Khan, please. Well, KT players not named Flash or Stats are 13-19 combined. So I'd say they're somewhere in the middle in terms of depth. Not amazing but not great either. Samsung OTOH has by far the most depth of any team in the PL. And this series seem to show that.
And last serie seemed to show exactly the contrary.
I don't completely disagree with you, but there is a bit too much bandwagonning in some reactions...
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On February 11 2012 14:57 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:53 Gara wrote:On February 11 2012 14:49 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:37 SgtPepper wrote:
damn, KT lost...
flash and stats looking strong as ever and rest of KT is underperforming... i mean cmon double weapon combined stats are 20-3 which is almost 90% winrate (87% to be exact) .. KT should do better than 9-5 when needs mostly like 1 of 3 games to win from rest of KT ... edit" im out of thread , looking forward for re ;D also drinking does not help ur team at all KT just has no depth beyond Flash and Stats; Khan's aces in Jangbi and Stork may not be as strong, but Khan has at least two reliably A-class players in each race in Brave/Grape, Turn/Reality, and Shine/Roro. Saying that KT has no debth besides flash and stats is downright stupid when we've won the majority of our games 3-1 and 2 of em were with stats loosing (......) Please don't bring up KTFlash Stats because a 2-3 loss to Khan, please.
No depth may be a bit of an exaggeration, but consider that other than Flash and Stats, only Crazy-Hydra and wooki have positive WL ratios... everyone else on KT has pretty appalling stats. Khan isn't exactly golden either (Grape 1-4, RorO 3-5 and 0-5 against Zerg), but at least Khan has 6 players with a positive WL ratio (taking into account tonight's games), more than any other team (CJ is next closest with 5 players at even or better).
Personally, I think KT would benefit greatly from just playing Crazy-Hydra more, he seems more consistent than Action right now... at the very least, he's beating better players than Action is.
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On February 11 2012 15:16 Gara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:57 Iplaythings wrote:On February 11 2012 14:53 Gara wrote:On February 11 2012 14:49 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:37 SgtPepper wrote:
damn, KT lost...
flash and stats looking strong as ever and rest of KT is underperforming... i mean cmon double weapon combined stats are 20-3 which is almost 90% winrate (87% to be exact) .. KT should do better than 9-5 when needs mostly like 1 of 3 games to win from rest of KT ... edit" im out of thread , looking forward for re ;D also drinking does not help ur team at all KT just has no depth beyond Flash and Stats; Khan's aces in Jangbi and Stork may not be as strong, but Khan has at least two reliably A-class players in each race in Brave/Grape, Turn/Reality, and Shine/Roro. Saying that KT has no debth besides flash and stats is downright stupid when we've won the majority of our games 3-1 and 2 of em were with stats loosing (......) Please don't bring up KTFlash Stats because a 2-3 loss to Khan, please. No depth may be a bit of an exaggeration, but consider that other than Flash and Stats, only Crazy-Hydra and wooki have positive WL ratios... everyone else on KT has pretty appalling stats. Khan isn't exactly golden either (Grape 1-4, RorO 3-5 and 0-5 against Zerg), but at least Khan has 6 players with a positive WL ratio (taking into account tonight's games), more than any other team (CJ is next closest with 5 players at even or better). Personally, I think KT would benefit greatly from just playing Crazy-Hydra more, he seems more consistent than Action right now... at the very least, he's beating better players than Action is.
Obviously, you're right about that, but KT*s second string are still performing better now than they have historically..
And I don't have faith in Crazy-hydra, tbh, his wins looks good but in fact he's just descent at zvz and then he cheesed light and stork, basically.. Atleast Action is a beast the days where he is "on".
Mind will be good some days and below average other days.. Just the way mind is.
Hoejja will be awesome some days and then he'll be bad, Barracks is a nervewrack and then we have Perfectman somewhere someplace.
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On February 11 2012 15:34 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 15:16 Gara wrote:On February 11 2012 14:57 Iplaythings wrote:On February 11 2012 14:53 Gara wrote:On February 11 2012 14:49 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:37 SgtPepper wrote:
damn, KT lost...
flash and stats looking strong as ever and rest of KT is underperforming... i mean cmon double weapon combined stats are 20-3 which is almost 90% winrate (87% to be exact) .. KT should do better than 9-5 when needs mostly like 1 of 3 games to win from rest of KT ... edit" im out of thread , looking forward for re ;D also drinking does not help ur team at all KT just has no depth beyond Flash and Stats; Khan's aces in Jangbi and Stork may not be as strong, but Khan has at least two reliably A-class players in each race in Brave/Grape, Turn/Reality, and Shine/Roro. Saying that KT has no debth besides flash and stats is downright stupid when we've won the majority of our games 3-1 and 2 of em were with stats loosing (......) Please don't bring up KTFlash Stats because a 2-3 loss to Khan, please. No depth may be a bit of an exaggeration, but consider that other than Flash and Stats, only Crazy-Hydra and wooki have positive WL ratios... everyone else on KT has pretty appalling stats. Khan isn't exactly golden either (Grape 1-4, RorO 3-5 and 0-5 against Zerg), but at least Khan has 6 players with a positive WL ratio (taking into account tonight's games), more than any other team (CJ is next closest with 5 players at even or better). Personally, I think KT would benefit greatly from just playing Crazy-Hydra more, he seems more consistent than Action right now... at the very least, he's beating better players than Action is. Obviously, you're right about that, but KT*s second string are still performing better now than they have historically.. And I don't have faith in Crazy-hydra, tbh, his wins looks good but in fact he's just descent at zvz and then he cheesed light and stork, basically.. Atleast Action is a beast the days where he is "on". Mind will be good some days and below average other days.. Just the way mind is. Hoejja will be awesome some days and then he'll be bad, Barracks is a nervewrack and then we have Perfectman somewhere someplace.
The new format favors KT quite a bit too; Flash doesn't have to practice for a second map, and KT only needs one win from its second string players.
I've never been that impressed with Hoejja but then I probably don't follow KT as closely as you do; a win's a win though, and Hoejja is 2-5 and Crazy-Hydra is 4-2 this season. I know Action was very clutch during the playoffs last year, so I'm probably underestimating him.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
fffffuuuuuuuuu flash won again. What the hell, when will he lose at last. tt
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On February 11 2012 15:58 _Quasar_ wrote:fffffuuuuuuuuu flash won again. What the hell, when will he lose at last. tt
In three days. 
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On February 11 2012 14:19 George_the_man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:17 Sawamura wrote:On February 11 2012 14:16 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:14 reincremate wrote:On February 11 2012 14:14 Sawamura wrote:
GG samsung khan played well T_T and why hoejja and action you fail us today .. No luck for Zergs today (or this season for that matter) i dunno what happened to zergs but i feel they either hydra bust or do some crazy stuff or like always die to 2 base protoss... what the hell zergs?? You mean KT and SKT Zergs that is .... no man all the zergs are underperforming badly imo .... badly!!well except Soulkey
Allow me to pull a reverse-swarm-season:
Zergs that actually play well win. It's just that most Zergs suck now. I mean, let's be realistic here. There was always a ton of mediocrity in Zerg lineups, and not just KT and SKT. It's just being exposed now when the metagame isn't "3 base scourge into 5 hatch hydra into PROTOSS DIES". Protoss have adapted and are playing well, Terrans are doing OK I guess (well, as usual, Flash and fantasy are), and without an in-form Jaedong and an overachieving Hydra, Effort and other mediocre players, we see that the Protoss players are just actually better. Stats, Stork, Jangbi, Bisu, Best - these are all some of the best Protoss of all times in the best form of all times. The rookies are learning from them, and Movie always had a monster PvZ.
The problem is not that Zergs are underperforming. It's that they've been exposed as the mediocre players they actually are in a league where the excellence of the top players is downright astounding.
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Amazing games tonight, yay for Khan!
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Wohoo just woke up and im glad that KHAN won. 7 correct LB in a row and voting always for KHAN = 3rd place
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If EVER a man deserved to win, it would have to be stork, because that game was such a nice almost comeback. A few sloppy moments that can probably be attributed to not being 100% cost him the game.
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On February 11 2012 15:16 Gara wrote:
No depth may be a bit of an exaggeration, but consider that other than Flash and Stats, only Crazy-Hydra and wooki have positive WL ratios... everyone else on KT has pretty appalling stats. Khan isn't exactly golden either (Grape 1-4, RorO 3-5 and 0-5 against Zerg), but at least Khan has 6 players with a positive WL ratio (taking into account tonight's games), more than any other team (CJ is next closest with 5 players at even or better).
Personally, I think KT would benefit greatly from just playing Crazy-Hydra more, he seems more consistent than Action right now... at the very least, he's beating better players than Action is.
I agree, if you take a Flash/Stats/CH/Wooki/Mind lineup then we look pretty strong imo. I can understand playing Hoejja or Action once in a while to give them a chance, and there are some situations where Hoejja can be more clutch than the other Zergs, but why do we keep playing both of them in the same day? Most of the other teams field basically the same lineup week in week out, whereas KT seems to play Stats/Flash + a random combo of the other players, seemingly disregarding current form.
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On February 11 2012 16:31 Release wrote:
If EVER a man deserved to win, it would have to be stork, because that game was such a nice almost comeback. A few sloppy moments that can probably be attributed to not being 100% cost him the game.
After Flash broke through Stork's defenses with his initial tank push, Stork microed his shuttle/reaver so well. That reaver alone managed to break Flash's push and delay Stork's death for a good 10 minutes. It must've had at least 5 vulture kills and 5 tank kills... A beautiful sight to behold. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough to make up for the maybe 8 goons Stork donated to Flash's mines XD
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Aww, this saddens me. I think KT should send out CH and Wooki over horjja and action, although i really like then, Wooki and CH seem more reliable to get wins. Flash the hero as always <3333
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Grats Khan. KT got the matchups they wanted but the supporting cast failed. Khan's a tough team to beat when they play this well.
Like seriously, both Action and Hoejja got Zergs, while Stats and Flash took out the two best players on the team (imo, I know there's argument for some other khan players above Roro but I think his record has been a tad unlucky and flukey in the losses and he's still a great player). Oh well!
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wohoo, i said khan at my LB and they have delivered!!!! awesome games.
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Germany1494 Posts
Wtf kt...
Why u send no perfectman?
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On February 11 2012 16:26 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:19 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:17 Sawamura wrote:On February 11 2012 14:16 George_the_man wrote:On February 11 2012 14:14 reincremate wrote:On February 11 2012 14:14 Sawamura wrote:
GG samsung khan played well T_T and why hoejja and action you fail us today .. No luck for Zergs today (or this season for that matter) i dunno what happened to zergs but i feel they either hydra bust or do some crazy stuff or like always die to 2 base protoss... what the hell zergs?? You mean KT and SKT Zergs that is .... no man all the zergs are underperforming badly imo .... badly!!well except Soulkey Allow me to pull a reverse-swarm-season: Zergs that actually play well win. It's just that most Zergs suck now. I mean, let's be realistic here. There was always a ton of mediocrity in Zerg lineups, and not just KT and SKT. It's just being exposed now when the metagame isn't "3 base scourge into 5 hatch hydra into PROTOSS DIES". Protoss have adapted and are playing well, Terrans are doing OK I guess (well, as usual, Flash and fantasy are), and without an in-form Jaedong and an overachieving Hydra, Effort and other mediocre players, we see that the Protoss players are just actually better. Stats, Stork, Jangbi, Bisu, Best - these are all some of the best Protoss of all times in the best form of all times. The rookies are learning from them, and Movie always had a monster PvZ. The problem is not that Zergs are underperforming. It's that they've been exposed as the mediocre players they actually are in a league where the excellence of the top players is downright astounding.
Your post is terrible. Overt question begging does not strengthen your thesis; indeed, by your reconning, the only thing that makes Jaedong a genuinely skilfull player is the fact that you have already determined him to be a skillfull player (as opposed to an "overarchiver"). I suppose it might be a joke, but I doubt it.
The truth of the matter is that there are genuinely skilled Zergs. We know this because they have consistently performed at the highest level across all matchups (not only ZvP). Most are simply underperforming at this particular moment, doubtlessly owing to changes in the metagame as well as other factors. That doesn't take away from the achievements of the Protoss players, of course, but it remains a fact that is simply ignorant to dismiss an entire group of consistent performers on the basis of a very recent trend.
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Yes KT lost !!!
But I'm disapointed that Flash won, Stork should have played better and own him.
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EPT
