EPT[SPL] STX SouL v Woongjin Stars - Page 50
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:47 Kipsate wrote: didnt they already use their heavy hitters, both stork and jangbi?who else they got but reality then. Also this, yeah. Reality was a perfectly cromulent choice. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
1. Reality next bonjwa. 2. It's not really an ace match, so they can't exactly send Stork or Jangbi again. I actually think January's gotten better at matchup picking, although I need to see her send Shine against Bisu to confirm this. | ||
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Ideas
United States8121 Posts
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DropBear
Australia4365 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:25 L_Master wrote: ZerO is not on the same level as Soulkey. When he plays good he is at least as good (tbh better), than SK but this is far too rare. nearly 60% ZvT since '09. Soulkey? 51%. it'd take a whole lot of cherry picking to even out those percentages. and no matter how you slice it SK isn't on another level than Zero. | ||
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trexbqs
Malaysia1731 Posts
 thanks to the streamers for the streams and also the LR threads.Congrats Stars. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:59 KamMoye wrote: nearly 60% ZvT since '09. Soulkey? 51%. it'd take a whole lot of cherry picking to even out those percentages. and no matter how you slice it SK isn't on another level than Zero. yes, id still call zero overall a better zvter than soulkey but soulkey is definitely improving, and he certainly has a gift for fighting off late game mech | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:42 L_Master wrote:Probably just a case of small sample size. FYP too many SC fans underrate the randomness of the game. we're talking about a sport where winning 55% of your games makes you a top 15 player. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:59 KamMoye wrote: nearly 60% ZvT since '09. Soulkey? 51%. it'd take a whole lot of cherry picking to even out those percentages. and no matter how you slice it SK isn't on another level than Zero. That cherry picking is there. Over 2/3 of SK's ZvT's are against terrans with a 60%+ career vT. Not sure why but he has faced the absolute cream of the crop when it comes to terrans. Then you have to consider that SK is far superior in ZvZ, and better in ZvP. He is also much more consistent than ZerO. On one of his good days, ZerO is as good as anyone in the game, but he has too many days where he is mediocre or downright awful. Without this consistency I just can't place someone as a top player. There is an aura of consistency and invincibility needed to be considered great. You don't get this with ZerO because you never know which ZerO will show up. Is SK on another level from ZerO? Hell no. Is he the better all around player? Definitely. More than anything it's ZerO's inconsistency that holds him back. On December 07 2011 19:03 KamMoye wrote: FYP too many SC fans underrate the randomness of the game. we're talking about a sport where winning 55% of your games makes you a top 15 player. It could VERY well be that. I wasn't paying attention to BW heavily yet at that point in time so I don't really know if there was an obvious drop off in the quality of his play that lead to those results or not. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:07 L_Master wrote: That cherry picking is there. Over 2/3 of SK's ZvT's are against terrans with a 60%+ career vT. Not sure why but he has faced the absolute cream of the crop when it comes to terrans. Then you have to consider that SK is far superior in ZvZ, and better in ZvP. He is also much more consistent than ZerO. On one of his good days, ZerO is as good as anyone in the game, but he has too many days where he is mediocre or downright awful. Without this consistency I just can't place someone as a top player. There is an aura of consistency and invincibility needed to be considered great. You don't get this with ZerO because you never know which ZerO will show up. Is SK on another level from ZerO? Hell no. Is he the better all around player? Definitely. More than anything it's ZerO's inconsistency that holds him back. It could VERY well be that. I wasn't paying attention to BW heavily yet at that point in time so I don't really know if there was an obvious drop off in the quality of his play that lead to those results or not. it's pretty obvious that zero is a better zvt player. just look at zero and SK vs flash; SK is 0-4, zero is 4-7 including osl/msl, 3-1 with only proleague. when zero beats guys like flash, fantasy, sea, hwasin, etc, he makes it look easy. bogus is pretty good, and we had an epic zvt, but he made SK work for every single inch he got. when we look at zero vs flash on benzene, zero is in control of every single thing on the map, and crushed flash's big mech push with ease. not to downplay bogus since he's certainly been stx's ace for the last few rounds of PL, but when SK looks shaky against someone who's merely "good" versus zero dominating god young ho, i think it's pretty clear cut who has the stronger zvt. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On December 07 2011 20:35 rauk wrote: it's pretty obvious that zero is a better zvt player. just look at zero and SK vs flash; SK is 0-4, zero is 4-7 including osl/msl, 3-1 with only proleague. when zero beats guys like flash, fantasy, sea, hwasin, etc, he makes it look easy. bogus is pretty good, and we had an epic zvt, but he made SK work for every single inch he got. when we look at zero vs flash on benzene, zero is in control of every single thing on the map, and crushed flash's big mech push with ease. not to downplay bogus since he's certainly been stx's ace for the last few rounds of PL, but when SK looks shaky against someone who's merely "good" versus zero dominating god young ho, i think it's pretty clear cut who has the stronger zvt. His point being that he doesn't judge by peak performance only, but also by stability and consistency. Sure, zero dominated flash in that game. but look at the stat that you quoted: 4-7. It's flash, granted, but you make it sound like zero's "stronger zvt" is consistently at that level. Any avid BW viewer will tell you, no, it isn't. If we were judging by peak performances, TBLS, fantasy, zero, effort, calm, and a few notable others would be up there in the S-class. However, the reason TBLS have been put in a class of their own for a long time is that they have had relevant stability and high standard of performance. Fantasy, Calm, and Zero emphasize this difference; with preparation they are capable of similar feats but do not stick to that standard. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On December 07 2011 21:27 Legatus Lanius wrote: also i think you are underrating bogus here. i couldnt simply call him just 'good.' he may not be up there with flash and light in tvz, but hes pretty fierce yeah bogus will be the one to one day take the terrans to the next level along with reality. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:03 KamMoye wrote: FYP too many SC fans underrate the randomness of the game. we're talking about a sport where winning 55% of your games makes you a top 15 player. Seriously. It's been 2 games this new season. Who hasn't had a 2 game losing streak? | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
 GoRush was the OBSERVER!!Source:DES. Gonna check the VODs later to see what the commentators were saying about his performance. Reminder: Ace vs T8 was observed by  TheMarine | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
I knew it. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:18 jpak wrote: Another little funny fact about this match: GoRush was the OBSERVER!!Source:DES. Gonna check the VODs later to see what the commentators were saying about his performance. Reminder: Ace vs T8 was observed by TheMarineThat's sweet. But the commentators actually critique the observers during the match? | ||
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VGhost
United States3615 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:38 RJGooner wrote: To be fair the alternatives weren't very good either (Modesty? Dear?) Still a bad decision though. I think I would have played Classic. On the other hand, we've seen hyvaa come out twice now in deciding sets, and eSTRO used to do the same thing with him, occasionally even when Up/SangHo/Really hadn't played. My guess is that hyvaa's a practice-room bonjwa and STX coach just has a system he insists on using to decide who plays. The PvP results are lol, though: Shuttle and free lose to sHy and mini? | ||
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