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On September 15 2011 18:51 ffreakk wrote:
@hitthat
I dont know man.. I, for one, was worried like hell when i heard about Stork's gf breaking up with him before the finals. Im sure its not an end-all-be-all excuse, but personally i feel that it played role. Stork would not have gone down in the pathetic way that he did, if u consider the monster form he was in before that, and PvT was his absolute best match-up.
Yes, but one day after he beaten Fantasy when he technicaly should be on the brink of mental collapse. I still think this had no meaning or it played marginal role.
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On September 15 2011 20:33 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 18:51 ffreakk wrote:
@hitthat
I dont know man.. I, for one, was worried like hell when i heard about Stork's gf breaking up with him before the finals. Im sure its not an end-all-be-all excuse, but personally i feel that it played role. Stork would not have gone down in the pathetic way that he did, if u consider the monster form he was in before that, and PvT was his absolute best match-up.
Yes, but one day after he beaten Fantasy when he technicaly should be on the brink of mental collapse. I still think this had no meaning or it played marginal role.
I also dont think that played such a huge role. I think Stork suffered more from going so far in MSL aswell. Fantasy had alot more time to focus on OSL and he had a week more then Stork to focus for the final. Stork put to much effort into pvz and getting knocked out of that and then turn around to try and keep your mind on the OSL was just to hard.
Fantasy got this final due to longer preparation and the fact that Jangbi most likelly will have more nervs then Fanta who won last OSL.
But I would fucking die of happines if Jangbi could win this.
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I just realized, if Jangbi wins, YellOw will be all by himself with no golds...
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United States13143 Posts
On September 15 2011 20:28 Kalm wrote:
The bisu build changed PVZ alot....
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=65389
Bisu is a great player, but not particularly innovative. I think Kingdom said that it was Best who came up with a lot of Bisu's builds after he transferred over to T1.
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I'm a hardcore fan/supporter of Flash, but I actually wanted Jangbi to win in Ro8. We need a Protoss to win this. And Jangbi is cool enough. For broodwar, for esport, go go, Jangbi!
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On September 15 2011 09:38 RezChi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 09:23 Release wrote:On September 15 2011 08:02 oldgregg wrote:I dont wanna sound negative but all the people who want fantasy to win are traitors to BW.....  whyyyyyyyyyy Fantasy in finals is sooooo nice to watch. I almost cried when i saw him lose to jaedong because he had played so nicely.:p Fantasy isn't as great of a player he actually is. It's all thanks to oov lending a hand with strategies and stuff. Watch his TvZ can't play bionic for shit for so long.
Well he's not playing a Zerg in the finals so I don't get why his shitty bio control is relevant.
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But Bisu dominated Savior with the Bisu build while he was still on MBC.
Plus I think his current PvZ is really innovative.
Protoss used to turtle on 2 bases and make one massive push.
That old style was getting stale once Zergs figured out you can mass drone on four bases then make enough units to kill the death push.
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On September 15 2011 17:30 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 17:21 Jindo wrote:
What's wrong with progamers receiving help from their coach? It's their job isn't it? The argument some people make is that fantasy can't think for himself which somehow invalidates his victory over Stork? I don't know, the entire train of logic/argument is silly; fantasy won, stork lost. In the end, that's all that matters. Edit: Also I don't think fantasy is a robot who only does what oov says.
Fantasy is IMO the worst "top" progamer when it comes to on-the-spot decision making. This is especially in contrast to the terran above him, who is the master of decision making at any given time.
The reason Fantasy suffers is because of
1. When his builds don't succeed because his opponents do something unusual, he falls apart quicker and more unbelievably than others. Feel free to watch last year's OSL semifinal game 1 against Calm to see play that no B-team terran should make.
2. Many of his builds are gimmicky. i.e. easily exploitable unless his opponent plays the way he thinks they do. This would be fine, as a lot of builds are gimmicky. But Fantasy reuses them. To the point where people would use anti-builds against him. While this is true to all top players, it's more true for Fantasy. And it's easier to counter his BO, sometimes require as little as standard play.
The mark of a top player is that you know what they're going to do and they still beat you. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu(PL version), and to lesser extents Hydra, Stork, Zero, etc. all have this aura. Fantasy has the aura of "if he gets 2 weeks to prepare you're screwed but in random PL games he's meh".
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stormuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!EXCLAMATIONPOINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
(c)
hypehypehypehype
I want T>P for ever and ever and ever. Go Fantasy.
Hype image coming soon.
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10387 Posts
Fantasy's decision making isn't nearly as bad as people tend to make out of it, I would argue that Jangbi's is even worse (see every single final he's been in), and that his preparation skill is nowhere near as good as Fantasy's. Plus, Fantasy had the best winrate/record in SKT in the PL 09-10 season, and would've been in the top 5 win records for 10-11 if it wasn't for his post-OSL slump.
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^This. I'm sick of the uneducated Fantasy hate.
Claims like: "The guy is only good when he has weeks to prepare" are stupid. He might not be as gifted as Flash, but he's got a respectable 62% record in Winners league (the league in which you have the least time to prepare) and he didn't get as many games as Bisu was being sent first and raping everyone in that league.
And for all you beloved Jangbi fan-boys: The guy got a 28% win-rate in the same league. Everybody loves a Cinderella story, and I'd be happy for you if Jangbi pulls it off, but seriously: give credit where credit is due.
Fantasy is a legitimate good player. He still has a winning record over 60% and saying that he's only been that successful because he does what Oov tells him is as valid as saying that Jangbi got back in shape because he recently started banging January -_-"
A coach is there to offer advice to his players and Fantasy has shown steady growth as a player and that he can play to his strenghts without any gimmicks and pull-off convincing wins.
I'd be just as upset if anyone in here still called Flash a cheeser for what he did to Bisu over 3 years ago.
Fantasy is gonna beat Jangbi, because he's in a better mental condition, has had more time to prepare (DUH anyone is better with more time to prepare) and has had more experience in these OSL maps as he made it further i.e. he won, the last OSL. I'm hoping it will be a 3-0 not because I dislike Jangbi, or because I hate 'e-sports'-:rolleyes:-but to prove that he's a dominant terran; arguably the best, and definitely the most entertaining PvTer in the world.
Also, while his bio is still to be 'proved' he just dismantled Hydra with bio. and he only went mech in pathfinder because let's face it. the map is imbalanced TvZ when terran mech's. Why wouldn't you take a free win?
Fantasy Fighting!
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On September 16 2011 00:35 Condor Hero wrote:But Bisu dominated Savior with the Bisu build while he was still on MBC. Plus I think his current PvZ is really innovative.
innovative = inventive, creative etc. Bisu is good, but far from creative. The bisu build was named after him because he could pull off the build perfectly, but he did not invent it. And like Elyvilon said, Kingdom said it was Best who invented all of the builds during Bisu's time at SKT.
On September 16 2011 00:50 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 17:30 Elyvilon wrote:On September 15 2011 17:21 Jindo wrote:
What's wrong with progamers receiving help from their coach? It's their job isn't it? The argument some people make is that fantasy can't think for himself which somehow invalidates his victory over Stork? I don't know, the entire train of logic/argument is silly; fantasy won, stork lost. In the end, that's all that matters. Edit: Also I don't think fantasy is a robot who only does what oov says. Fantasy is IMO the worst "top" progamer when it comes to on-the-spot decision making. This is especially in contrast to the terran above him, who is the master of decision making at any given time. The reason Fantasy suffers is because of 1. When his builds don't succeed because his opponents do something unusual, he falls apart quicker and more unbelievably than others. Feel free to watch last year's OSL semifinal game 1 against Calm to see play that no B-team terran should make. 2. Many of his builds are gimmicky. i.e. easily exploitable unless his opponent plays the way he thinks they do. This would be fine, as a lot of builds are gimmicky. But Fantasy reuses them. To the point where people would use anti-builds against him. While this is true to all top players, it's more true for Fantasy. And it's easier to counter his BO, sometimes require as little as standard play. The mark of a top player is that you know what they're going to do and they still beat you. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu(PL version), and to lesser extents Hydra, Stork, Zero, etc. all have this aura. Fantasy has the aura of "if he gets 2 weeks to prepare you're screwed but in random PL games he's meh".
this is exactly my opinion as well. Also, pretty much most non-SKT fans are fantasy haters.
On September 16 2011 02:43 ArvickHero wrote:
Fantasy's decision making isn't nearly as bad as people tend to make out of it, I would argue that Jangbi's is even worse (see every single final he's been in), and that his preparation skill is nowhere near as good as Fantasy's. Plus, Fantasy had the best winrate/record in SKT in the PL 09-10 season, and would've been in the top 5 win records for 10-11 if it wasn't for his post-OSL slump.
+ Show Spoiler +
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@ crazyhorse: You are too quick to discount jangbi, he was competent player and if he retakes his lost form, it will be really close series.
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On September 16 2011 03:18 hitthat wrote:
@ crazyhorse: You are too quick to discount jangbi, he was competent player and if he retakes his lost form, it will be really close series.
I'm not discounting him. I know he's in decent form and that he has a fair chance to win. I was merely venting and ranting back at all the Fantasy hate. I'm hoping for 3-1 for Fantasy. (3-2 if he loses on both NBR and gladiator). But I would love to see a 3-0 to back up my claims =]
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GET ON THE HYPE TRAIN! NEXT STOP - MOAR HYPE!!
This will be such a SICK SICK SICK finals! The Jangbanger vs. Fantasy with his vP on fire!! BW overload ffs.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Also, pretty much most non-SKT fans are fantasy haters.
WHAT LOL. Fantasy is cool! He is a creative player (and not only creative, but able also to actually win using those strategies, so statement "iloveoov does all for him" is invalid, and also other SKT1 terrans don't use creative strategies usually...), and that is what puts a lot of interest into game. How can you not like him??? He is the source for fresh blood in strategy.
Gogogo Fantasy. SPRING AT FALL, MAKE IT HAPPEN!
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I'm getting tired of repeating this
It's still SUMMER!
Fall begins on Sept. 23rd
More FantaSy Hype!!!
정명훈 와이팅!
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On September 16 2011 03:32 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:Fantasy won that game...
it still showcases his bad decision making pretty well
On September 16 2011 03:35 _Quasar_ wrote:WHAT LOL. Fantasy is cool! He is a creative player (and not only creative, but able also to actually win using those strategies, so statement "iloveoov does all for him" is invalid, and also other SKT1 terrans don't use creative strategies usually...), and that is what puts a lot of interest into game. How can you not like him??? He is the source for fresh blood in strategy. Gogogo Fantasy. SPRING AT FALL, MAKE IT HAPPEN!
well firstly he's not creative if he's not the one creating the builds.
secondly, fantasy isnt remembered for the strong mechanics that he has as much as he is recognized for spectacular fails, late GG timings, cheesy builds and terrible game sense
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/mmtrtw.jpg)
