[OSL] Jin Air OSL Grand Final - Page 19

On September 16 2011 03:35 _Quasar_ wrote:

WHAT LOL. Fantasy is cool! He is a creative player (and not only creative, but able also to actually win using those strategies, so statement "iloveoov does all for him" is invalid, and also other SKT1 terrans don't use creative strategies usually...), and that is what puts a lot of interest into game. How can you not like him??? He is the source for fresh blood in strategy.

Gogogo Fantasy. SPRING AT FALL, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

On September 16 2011 03:44 saltywet wrote:


it still showcases his bad decision making pretty well



well firstly he's not creative if he's not the one creating the builds.

On September 16 2011 04:03 _Quasar_ wrote:

i tried to argue this fact, because if it's only oov making those builds, why only Fanta uses them?

On September 16 2011 04:03 _Quasar_ wrote:

i tried to argue this fact, because if it's only oov making those builds, why only Fanta uses them? Maybe they are the result of fantas own work, not only oov's.

On February 01 2011 04:38 Ver wrote:


The funny thing is oov was doing a very similar lategame mass tank defense idea back in 2005, eg here and here. Pretty crazy isn't it?

But in actuality the lategame mech switch was from midas (a really underrated innovator) and fantasy. Fantasy did it once against zero in january '10 then midas started doing a more refined version every game in feburary and beyond. That bio -> mech switch around defiler timing is much different from the sk terran -> fast 4th with switch into 3-4 fact tanks that was shown in fantasy/jaedong and then further developed by flash against calm and others.

Ultimately it's really hard to judge oov's exact influence on fantasy except when he gets credited for a build. Fantasy is hardly a robot obeying orders, but at the same time like you said, the fantasy who never had oov as a coach would think completely differently and wouldn't even be a comparable player. You clearly notice a lot of similarities with their series approaches as well: I don't think it's a coincidence that fantasy is an absolute monster in series but very inconsistent in single games. The extent of his influence is more certain with people like canata who are mediocre their entire career, never getting anywhere in leagues then suddenly makes msl ro8 and comes within inches of knocking out jaedong with very clear oov builds.

On December 13 2009 06:02 Ver wrote:
This is really nothing new. Fantasy has been dropping key games for ridiculous reasons from the onset of his real career. Game 5 vs Stork and game 5 vs Jaedong he knew their exact builds, he had an auto win build available, and he chose to do an auto loss build both times. 6 fact vs 1 gate double expand and Fantasy Build vs 2 hatch muta skipped hydra instead of 4 fact allin or non and Valkonic.

His skill level is artificially inflated because he has oov behind him preparing builds and series strategies. While Fantasy does understand the strategies very well (most of the time haha), he doesn't possess the corresponding game sense/decision making that oov had. Take that Holy World 4 pool game: Fantasy defended it, Jaedong lost the game right then. From that kind of advantage Jaedong had no chance of victory and you can be sure that oov or Flash or whoever would absolutely have won the game from that position. But Fantasy just doesn't have the level of decision making of a starleague winner. When things don't go to plan he kinda fizzles out most of the time. Flash noted in some interview awhile back that he is best at reacting in game to various problems while Fantasy comes in very strong and prepared but can't react as well.

Btw Fantasy absolutely should not go 1 rax FE: he's terrible at it and always has been. Canata is quite frankly better at TvZ than Fantasy now that he is following oov's strategies as well because Canata has much better bionic control and Fantasy doesn't really have an edge on decision making in normal bio builds. He definitely needs to stick with Valkonic variations until oov creates another build (don't even mention Boxer, his influence is minuscule compared to oov's and yes it is discernible who puts in what). Valkonic is most definitely not figured out (see Canata vs Effort) and there are many variations that they haven't used to their fullest potential (namely the 1 rax FE into speed vult/valkyrie). It's just he's doing really dumb things when he does Valkonic like skipping Valkyries vs 2 hatch muta (lol?) for whatever reason and his 1 Rax FE is just as bad as when he played GGPlay a year and some months ago.

Quite frankly it's amazing Fantasy managed to last this long without any kind of real slump. Losing 2 game 5's in the finals and losing the semis to Jaedong in such a fashion would be killer on one's mental state. Fantasy definitely has the fighting spirit and he will bounce back from his problems one way or another I bet. And so long as his play is consistent, he will skyrocket to the very top once oov creates another build or brings some back from the past like he did vs Hoejja (that's an oov build from December 2004). You can't expect Fantasy to be Flash, someone perfect in decision making and game sense, because he's not. Fantasy is Fantasy, with his own very unique strengths and weaknesses. So he probably is going to keep dropping random games for bad reasons but he also is going to soar once again for the same reasons as before.