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[MSL] Grand Final - Page 7

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
February 19 2011 02:31 GMT
#121
On February 19 2011 10:58 butchji wrote:
Who would've thought this final would happen?

Q: Did you have any thoughts about having Hydra as your opponent in the finals?
A: It’s something that I couldn’t have imagined, not even in my dreams.

Not even great himself could have predicted such a thing.
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
February 19 2011 03:14 GMT
#122
HYDRA HWAITING!

gogogo hydra, do it for CJ, bring back one more title to the house
BW is back
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-19 03:42:31
February 19 2011 03:35 GMT
#123
I hope great wins with his weird-ass hydra-lurker ZvZ midgame he has.
+ Show Spoiler [HUGE quantity of text] +

What we all know is that Hydra is the next big zerg (team ace, ELO are good enough indicators for me). But what we also know is that this is Great's only shot at winning anything significant for himself. He's never going back to a final, he's KHAN's best zerg but probably 4th best player overall, and he's pretty inconsistent over his career, or is he just consistently inconsistent... which is technically consistent...?

Anyway, all of you making comparisons to other 1-league winners/finalists, allow me to put in my 2 cents, because Great is not to be compared to the likes of Calm or ForGG, but maybe of Movie and Casy.

Calm, much unloved, won Avalon MSL. After this, he hit his ELO peak, and has since reached four more starleague semifinals. Calm in my mind is not a 1-league wonder because he always comes back next season, in spite of his proleague struggles.

ForGG, 1-leaguer though he was, deserves mass props for his Arena MSL run. He beat one of the Dragons in the year of the Dragons in one of the best PvT series you'll ever see. How does he follow that up? Oh, by beating the best Terran in the game, Flash, and then proceeds to DESTROY his teammate and defending MSL champion Jaedong. In his career, ForGG reached an impressive ELO peak of 2263. His dominance was brief but it was indeed dominant.

Luxury, aka tells-Hwasin-he's-going-12-hatch zerg, didn't have a particularly golden run in Lost Saga, but he did beat the everyone's favorite prodigy Leta, and beat 2-time MSL finalist Jangbi back when Jangbi was good (Yes, such a time did exist!). But, but, good sirs, let's not forget that Luxury had made 2 OSL semifinals in 2008. Luxury wasn't the "#2 zerg" beyond Jaedong without merit. Luxury was relevant and a force before such and such, match throwing, slump, and uh, yeah that stuff that uh... happened...

What about GGplay? Once known as the Ro16 zerg for his inability to advance deep in the OSL and yet was always back next season. In the Daum OSL, GGplay managed to draw three terrans, which hey, good for him, as he was known for his ZvT. His hive play was comparable to Savior's during his peak. But in Brood War, how can you not be impressed when any zerg battles through the three best terrans in the game at that time (Flash [emerging, unloved, but even back then brilliant], Iris, Hwasin)? I mean, if a zerg runs through the best three protoss, no one gives a shit, but the three best terrans, hell yeah! Plus have you seen those games? Fucking amazing. GGplay was not much of a force afterwards, save for his semifinal in Incruit OSL, but his accomplishments in Daum are to be respected. Title earned, end of story.

So what is great? I'll tell you what Great is... fortuitous. Like the following candidates.

Casy... Good God, the champion of the most infuriating OSL format. I don't what the fuck kind of OSL was ShinHan S1, but what a joke. In that OSL, Casy lost 5 of his 8 first games and still wasn't elimated, including 2 losses to ZergMan and losing 2 of 3 to Iris. The cat with 9 lives drew Yellow in the semifinal. Hmm, Yellow in a meaningful series vs a terran. Wonder what will happen. Oh yeah, Casy won. Casy then draws Chojja, the unloved zerg with a lot of silver and bronze medals (but still one gold), and crushes him with his famous TvZ moves. Casy could only play TvZ and was lucky enough to draw 2 starleague chokers that were also zergs. Casy, an OSL champion. Casy, who has the worst TvP in the history of brood war, was never a force again. But even he managed to peak above 2200 ELO, so overall, he was still a "good" player at some point...

How about Movie? Remember Movie? Did you know he made a starleague final once? Yes, he did! EVER 2009, it was. For about, say, 34 days, Movie had really good PvZ. He was slightly more aggressive and attempted to punish greedy zergs with awkward timings, without much economic risk, and utilized reaver-based pushed quite well; and it payed off, as the likes of hero (who aside from beating Bisu a few times, is incredibly average at ZvP), Zero (who will forever go down as the cutest starleague choker in the history of Brood War), and Shine (who could rock Bisu and Stork but couldn't handle the once-quirky Movie) fell by the wayside. After losing to Flash, how has Movie's career been? Hmm, not so great. He was eliminated by Pure in the following OSL and has been quite irrelevant in starleagues and certainly has been no real asset for CJ or Hite Entus for quite some time. So Movie has a weak starleague run AND weak proleague results to his name. According to TLPD, his ELO peak was/is a whopping 2080/2081. Not a great player, but was fortuitous, and was a protoss that for a brief time did not roll over and die to ever zerg that came along.

So where does this leave Great? Great's current ELO is 2047... ouch. His peak was 2071, even lower than Movie's! He's never been even a whimper in any OSL. Did you know he's only qualified for 2 OSLs ever, and has never even made the Ro16? How the MSL? Well, he's qualified for... 3. He even made the Ro8 once! So, that's 5 starleague qualifications and 1 trip past the Ro16 in any of them (technically only one trip to the Ro16 as well). How did Great manage to get to the finals? Well, he beat Canata twice in the MST. Remember Canata? ELO 2020? A terran so bad now (and then) that he even lost to Juni has hasn't been played by SKT in almost 2 months? Fortuitous. In the Ro32, Great gets his 2 needed wins versus 2 super-slumpers known as Leta and Soulkey. Fortuitous. Next, he defeats Action. Impressive right? Ask any KT fan how wonderful Action's ZvZ is, and see if the can help themselves from crying. Fortuitous! But wait, wait, wait! Great then defeats Kal! Hey, Kal's a good player! Props to Great, right? NO. Kal has the most overrated PvZ of all time. How so? Because he is incapable of beating any zerg in a meaningful series! Nevermind his thrashings at the hands of Jaedong. Remember that 0-3 performance vs Effort in KAS1? And how about losing to teammate Modesty last season? Modesty? He has 38% win rate in ZvP for God's sake! In fact look at Kal's MSL and OSL history in TLPD. You'll see in all but 3 or 4 of the many leagues he's qualified for, he always gets fleeced by zergs. If Modesty can beat Kal, hell, so can the coin-flip ZvP of Great. Choking in starleagues is something Kal shares in common with Zero. And guess who Great played next? You guessed it! The Prince of Queens, Cute-choker himself. Zero's weakest MU shows up once again and he is bounced without much strain on Great. Fortuitous!

Hey, what can you say, Great won his games while other favorites didn't take care of their business. I hope Great wins and sucks face with that trophy. I hope he realizes the magnitude of this opportunity. I hope he rubs it in Jangbi's face every day. I hope he walks up to Stork and says, "Hey, I'm technically as accomplished as you now! Hee hee!" I hope he call me up and tells me that my analysis means nothing to him because he won and that's all that matters. I hope he has a beer with Casy. The problem is that hydra is approaching S-class status, and has the best ZvZ in the game right now, and is 4th in ELO overall. If Great beats Hydra, we should all be impressed, and no one can say he doesn't "deserve" this championship. Beating Hydra will mean something, because hey, looks like not a lot of people can do it these days! I will applaud great, send him fan-mail, and create a new account on TL called iLoveGreatHesSoGreat. Go Great!
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
powerdawg96
Profile Joined November 2010
United States129 Posts
February 19 2011 04:30 GMT
#124
so any stream?
Balfazar
Profile Joined November 2008
Australia483 Posts
February 19 2011 04:42 GMT
#125
Two unexpected players, who both beat players everyone assumed would beat them, are in the finals... and having not learned their lesson people are now assuming Hydra will win.

Come on Great! Step up and become Khan's #2 behind Stork!
nK)Duke
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany936 Posts
February 19 2011 04:45 GMT
#126
this is probably the very first time im rooting for no one ever in a final
maximuspita
Profile Joined April 2010
1093 Posts
February 19 2011 04:46 GMT
#127
I want Hydra to win. Go Hydra!
Korean Air, please save Fox.
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3110 Posts
February 19 2011 04:57 GMT
#128
Go great! SAMSUNG PRIDE!
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1471 Posts
February 19 2011 05:13 GMT
#129
Hoping for Great. Expecting Hydra
"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
February 19 2011 05:14 GMT
#130
On February 19 2011 13:30 powerdawg96 wrote:
so any stream?


it's not starting for almost 3 hours


goooo hydra
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
February 19 2011 05:15 GMT
#131
Just in case anyone missed it because the thread has been moved to Community News:

Hydra and great's pre-finals smacktalk interviews
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
February 19 2011 05:18 GMT
#132
Nice writeup MountainDewJunkie, i'm routing for Great cause he's the clear underdog to new-effort and in regular games i can't see him doing anything other than losing. I'm surprised by the commentators views tbh. Great hasn't seemed to figure out an actual safe hive build yet that is proven to work and it's usually the other play who initiates hive play against him.. Hydra can beat Great scourge/muta vs scourge/muta. No doubt. And equal number of lings we'll say 50/50 everyones half decent at microing injured ones back and forth. So unless Great gas a safe way to avoid that main muta battle to get to hive, he should really lose. What's his options? Turtle hard on 2 bases with heavy spore? Then use double/defiler or what? I really don't know. I'd love to see something but Hydra is gonna play 100% standard, has great even shown us a build where both players are at equal point then he drops down a Queens Nest?
Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
February 19 2011 05:28 GMT
#133
great's gonna do a crazy Devourer-Mutalisk build. Calling it right now.
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
pieisamazing
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1234 Posts
February 19 2011 05:40 GMT
#134
haha, great fans are going to be so disappointed
connoisseur
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
February 19 2011 05:45 GMT
#135
Samsung is getting quite close to double digit silvers....
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-19 06:16:41
February 19 2011 06:15 GMT
#136
Don't really see how you can compare someone who's 50% or more in all MU's to Casy.

Going to work now, hopefully I'll have some good games to watch when I get back. Rooting for Great and his Hive-awesomeness, but Hydra is fucking sick these days so we'll see.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
February 19 2011 06:54 GMT
#137
Hydras got this. No problem
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Weeuweed
Profile Joined December 2010
112 Posts
February 19 2011 07:07 GMT
#138
Easiest 7pts LB ever. Hydraaaa
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
February 19 2011 07:07 GMT
#139
On February 19 2011 12:35 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I hope great wins with his weird-ass hydra-lurker ZvZ midgame he has.
+ Show Spoiler [HUGE quantity of text] +

What we all know is that Hydra is the next big zerg (team ace, ELO are good enough indicators for me). But what we also know is that this is Great's only shot at winning anything significant for himself. He's never going back to a final, he's KHAN's best zerg but probably 4th best player overall, and he's pretty inconsistent over his career, or is he just consistently inconsistent... which is technically consistent...?

Anyway, all of you making comparisons to other 1-league winners/finalists, allow me to put in my 2 cents, because Great is not to be compared to the likes of Calm or ForGG, but maybe of Movie and Casy.

Calm, much unloved, won Avalon MSL. After this, he hit his ELO peak, and has since reached four more starleague semifinals. Calm in my mind is not a 1-league wonder because he always comes back next season, in spite of his proleague struggles.

ForGG, 1-leaguer though he was, deserves mass props for his Arena MSL run. He beat one of the Dragons in the year of the Dragons in one of the best PvT series you'll ever see. How does he follow that up? Oh, by beating the best Terran in the game, Flash, and then proceeds to DESTROY his teammate and defending MSL champion Jaedong. In his career, ForGG reached an impressive ELO peak of 2263. His dominance was brief but it was indeed dominant.

Luxury, aka tells-Hwasin-he's-going-12-hatch zerg, didn't have a particularly golden run in Lost Saga, but he did beat the everyone's favorite prodigy Leta, and beat 2-time MSL finalist Jangbi back when Jangbi was good (Yes, such a time did exist!). But, but, good sirs, let's not forget that Luxury had made 2 OSL semifinals in 2008. Luxury wasn't the "#2 zerg" beyond Jaedong without merit. Luxury was relevant and a force before such and such, match throwing, slump, and uh, yeah that stuff that uh... happened...

What about GGplay? Once known as the Ro16 zerg for his inability to advance deep in the OSL and yet was always back next season. In the Daum OSL, GGplay managed to draw three terrans, which hey, good for him, as he was known for his ZvT. His hive play was comparable to Savior's during his peak. But in Brood War, how can you not be impressed when any zerg battles through the three best terrans in the game at that time (Flash [emerging, unloved, but even back then brilliant], Iris, Hwasin)? I mean, if a zerg runs through the best three protoss, no one gives a shit, but the three best terrans, hell yeah! Plus have you seen those games? Fucking amazing. GGplay was not much of a force afterwards, save for his semifinal in Incruit OSL, but his accomplishments in Daum are to be respected. Title earned, end of story.

So what is great? I'll tell you what Great is... fortuitous. Like the following candidates.

Casy... Good God, the champion of the most infuriating OSL format. I don't what the fuck kind of OSL was ShinHan S1, but what a joke. In that OSL, Casy lost 5 of his 8 first games and still wasn't elimated, including 2 losses to ZergMan and losing 2 of 3 to Iris. The cat with 9 lives drew Yellow in the semifinal. Hmm, Yellow in a meaningful series vs a terran. Wonder what will happen. Oh yeah, Casy won. Casy then draws Chojja, the unloved zerg with a lot of silver and bronze medals (but still one gold), and crushes him with his famous TvZ moves. Casy could only play TvZ and was lucky enough to draw 2 starleague chokers that were also zergs. Casy, an OSL champion. Casy, who has the worst TvP in the history of brood war, was never a force again. But even he managed to peak above 2200 ELO, so overall, he was still a "good" player at some point...

How about Movie? Remember Movie? Did you know he made a starleague final once? Yes, he did! EVER 2009, it was. For about, say, 34 days, Movie had really good PvZ. He was slightly more aggressive and attempted to punish greedy zergs with awkward timings, without much economic risk, and utilized reaver-based pushed quite well; and it payed off, as the likes of hero (who aside from beating Bisu a few times, is incredibly average at ZvP), Zero (who will forever go down as the cutest starleague choker in the history of Brood War), and Shine (who could rock Bisu and Stork but couldn't handle the once-quirky Movie) fell by the wayside. After losing to Flash, how has Movie's career been? Hmm, not so great. He was eliminated by Pure in the following OSL and has been quite irrelevant in starleagues and certainly has been no real asset for CJ or Hite Entus for quite some time. So Movie has a weak starleague run AND weak proleague results to his name. According to TLPD, his ELO peak was/is a whopping 2080/2081. Not a great player, but was fortuitous, and was a protoss that for a brief time did not roll over and die to ever zerg that came along.

So where does this leave Great? Great's current ELO is 2047... ouch. His peak was 2071, even lower than Movie's! He's never been even a whimper in any OSL. Did you know he's only qualified for 2 OSLs ever, and has never even made the Ro16? How the MSL? Well, he's qualified for... 3. He even made the Ro8 once! So, that's 5 starleague qualifications and 1 trip past the Ro16 in any of them (technically only one trip to the Ro16 as well). How did Great manage to get to the finals? Well, he beat Canata twice in the MST. Remember Canata? ELO 2020? A terran so bad now (and then) that he even lost to Juni has hasn't been played by SKT in almost 2 months? Fortuitous. In the Ro32, Great gets his 2 needed wins versus 2 super-slumpers known as Leta and Soulkey. Fortuitous. Next, he defeats Action. Impressive right? Ask any KT fan how wonderful Action's ZvZ is, and see if the can help themselves from crying. Fortuitous! But wait, wait, wait! Great then defeats Kal! Hey, Kal's a good player! Props to Great, right? NO. Kal has the most overrated PvZ of all time. How so? Because he is incapable of beating any zerg in a meaningful series! Nevermind his thrashings at the hands of Jaedong. Remember that 0-3 performance vs Effort in KAS1? And how about losing to teammate Modesty last season? Modesty? He has 38% win rate in ZvP for God's sake! In fact look at Kal's MSL and OSL history in TLPD. You'll see in all but 3 or 4 of the many leagues he's qualified for, he always gets fleeced by zergs. If Modesty can beat Kal, hell, so can the coin-flip ZvP of Great. Choking in starleagues is something Kal shares in common with Zero. And guess who Great played next? You guessed it! The Prince of Queens, Cute-choker himself. Zero's weakest MU shows up once again and he is bounced without much strain on Great. Fortuitous!

Hey, what can you say, Great won his games while other favorites didn't take care of their business. I hope Great wins and sucks face with that trophy. I hope he realizes the magnitude of this opportunity. I hope he rubs it in Jangbi's face every day. I hope he walks up to Stork and says, "Hey, I'm technically as accomplished as you now! Hee hee!" I hope he call me up and tells me that my analysis means nothing to him because he won and that's all that matters. I hope he has a beer with Casy. The problem is that hydra is approaching S-class status, and has the best ZvZ in the game right now, and is 4th in ELO overall. If Great beats Hydra, we should all be impressed, and no one can say he doesn't "deserve" this championship. Beating Hydra will mean something, because hey, looks like not a lot of people can do it these days! I will applaud great, send him fan-mail, and create a new account on TL called iLoveGreatHesSoGreat. Go Great!

this was incredibly entertaining to read hahaha
Writerptrk
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
February 19 2011 07:07 GMT
#140
look who's here!
&#91;image loading&#93;
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
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