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[MSL] Grand Final - Page 58

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Prev 1 56 57 58 59 Next
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-19 14:33:11
February 19 2011 13:52 GMT
#1141
Maybe (P)Stork is cool with everyone because January can't manage practice partners for the team? Change the coaching staff so that (P)Stork, (Z)great and (T)TurN can rise to their full potential.

Also - so nice to see Coach Cho again. Overall a pretty awesome night, Congrats again HYDRA!
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
February 19 2011 14:08 GMT
#1142
FUCK YEAH HYDRAAAAAAAAAAAA

very well deserved!
BW is back
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
February 19 2011 14:24 GMT
#1143
Ver is imba :O

Too bad great loss but I guess most of us expected that..
CCa1ss1e
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3231 Posts
February 19 2011 15:52 GMT
#1144
Congrats Hydra!!

Can't say I'm surprised.. I haven't really been "following" Hydra, but the way he dispatched jaedong showed potential.

Still need to watch the games, but gg!

XD
~ The Ultimate Weapon
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10347 Posts
February 19 2011 16:20 GMT
#1145
"My extensive knowledge of hive gameplay will win me the finals."

Nope
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Sajiki
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany522 Posts
February 19 2011 17:16 GMT
#1146
game 1 absolutely awesome
rest boring dominance
건설로봇 준비완료
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
February 19 2011 18:10 GMT
#1147
Wow, Samsung keeps getting the silvers.

Game 1 was so cool, but it set the bar too high. The rest of the games were really lame in comparison. Hydra is obviously the better player and it was a well-deserved victory, but in my mind Great is the moral victor. Hive tech is the future, the other Zergs just have to play along.

Grats Hydra!
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Apex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States7227 Posts
February 19 2011 19:29 GMT
#1148
Samsung Silver. Jesus, how much silvers does that make?

Jangbi twice, Stork 23094832904, and now Great joins the party with one.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
February 19 2011 19:36 GMT
#1149
On February 19 2011 19:09 Zona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2011 19:03 Spica wrote:
I think that Hydra implied that Effort played a bigger role in helping him out behind the scenes

great looking unhappy with his $20,000 prize- who can blame him

heh, usually I dislike it when people question how "easy" a person's starleague run was...but look at great's

vs a slumping leta and a decent soulkey in the ro32
vs action's "amazing" zvz in the ro16
barely squeaks by the currently weak kal in the ro8
another zvz against a <50% in the form of zero in the semis


So much January bashing, Khan bashing and Great bashing makes me sad. I'm definitely not calling going through Leta and Soulkey, Action, Kal and Zero an easy run no matter who you are or what form they're in. Great's games felt a hell of a lot closer than Jaedong vs Yarnc. He deserves his silver at least as much as half a dozen other players out there.

In comparison Hydra went through Calm, Killer, Classic and Calm again before JD. I don't see how the first 4 are somehow harder than Great's opponents.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
amazingoopah
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1925 Posts
February 19 2011 19:52 GMT
#1150
Samsung KONG indeed...
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10347 Posts
February 19 2011 19:54 GMT
#1151
On February 20 2011 04:36 Subversive wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2011 19:09 Zona wrote:
On February 19 2011 19:03 Spica wrote:
I think that Hydra implied that Effort played a bigger role in helping him out behind the scenes

great looking unhappy with his $20,000 prize- who can blame him

heh, usually I dislike it when people question how "easy" a person's starleague run was...but look at great's

vs a slumping leta and a decent soulkey in the ro32
vs action's "amazing" zvz in the ro16
barely squeaks by the currently weak kal in the ro8
another zvz against a <50% in the form of zero in the semis


So much January bashing, Khan bashing and Great bashing makes me sad. I'm definitely not calling going through Leta and Soulkey, Action, Kal and Zero an easy run no matter who you are or what form they're in. Great's games felt a hell of a lot closer than Jaedong vs Yarnc. He deserves his silver at least as much as half a dozen other players out there.

In comparison Hydra went through Calm, Killer, Classic and Calm again before JD. I don't see how the first 4 are somehow harder than Great's opponents.

I said this earlier:
On February 19 2011 12:35 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
So where does this leave Great? Great's current ELO is 2047... ouch. His peak was 2071, even lower than Movie's! He's never been even a whimper in any OSL. Did you know he's only qualified for 2 OSLs ever, and has never even made the Ro16? How the MSL? Well, he's qualified for... 3. He even made the Ro8 once! So, that's 5 starleague qualifications and 1 trip past the Ro16 in any of them (technically only one trip to the Ro16 as well). How did Great manage to get to the finals? Well, he beat Canata twice in the MST. Remember Canata? ELO 2020? A terran so bad now (and then) that he even lost to Juni has hasn't been played by SKT in almost 2 months? Fortuitous. In the Ro32, Great gets his 2 needed wins versus 2 super-slumpers known as Leta and Soulkey. Fortuitous. Next, he defeats Action. Impressive right? Ask any KT fan how wonderful Action's ZvZ is, and see if the can help themselves from crying. Fortuitous! But wait, wait, wait! Great then defeats Kal! Hey, Kal's a good player! Props to Great, right? NO. Kal has the most overrated PvZ of all time. How so? Because he is incapable of beating any zerg in a meaningful series! Nevermind his thrashings at the hands of Jaedong. Remember that 0-3 performance vs Effort in KAS1? And how about losing to teammate Modesty last season? Modesty? He has 38% win rate in ZvP for God's sake! In fact look at Kal's MSL and OSL history in TLPD. You'll see in all but 3 or 4 of the many leagues he's qualified for, he always gets fleeced by zergs. If Modesty can beat Kal, hell, so can the coin-flip ZvP of Great. Choking in starleagues is something Kal shares in common with Zero. And guess who Great played next? You guessed it! The Prince of Queens, Cute-choker himself. Zero's weakest MU shows up once again and he is bounced without much strain on Great. Fortuitous!


It's true, not paricularly strong runs by either player, but Hydra edges it out in my mind because he beat a seasonal semifinalist (Calm) and the best (perhaps second now?) zerg in the game (Jaedong). But who gives a shit how they got here. Hydra got the trophy, bottom line. A championship is a championship. Except for Casy's OSL.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
February 19 2011 20:19 GMT
#1152
Does anyone know what the burrow was about by now? That drives me mad, why would you get burrow instead of... a Mutalisk?
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
February 19 2011 20:44 GMT
#1153
^_^ I fell asleep 10 minutes before the finals but im happy that Hydra won
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
February 19 2011 21:59 GMT
#1154
hell yeah. best zerg right now imo
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
dani_caliKorea
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-19 21:59:42
February 19 2011 21:59 GMT
#1155
On February 20 2011 05:19 Fenrax wrote:
Does anyone know what the burrow was about by now? That drives me mad, why would you get burrow instead of... a Mutalisk?

It was to confuse Hydra and keep his lings in his base. Hydra saw Great make tons of lings but he never found them. Theoretically, the burrowed lings would and were used to backstab after the opponent attacks. However, Great was economically behind along with mutalisk/zergling count.

Also it gave him total map scouting
Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-20 00:46:10
February 20 2011 00:41 GMT
#1156
On February 19 2011 19:06 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2011 19:03 Zona wrote:
When January said (publicly!) in the pre-Bacchus '10 finals interview that they had no particular idea in how to help Stork prepare, it was a real shock to me.

Could it also be due to the other teams refusing to help? We do know Woongjin's Zero was helping Hydra, Hwaseung was going to help (but didn't in the end, unlikely to help Samsung) and someone translated earlier that SKT1 helped Hydra as well? That's a lot of teams stacked against Samsung.

I think that this was a very major factor in determining the final victor. Hydra had Coach Cho, Effort, his strong Zerg teammates, ZerO, and the T1 Zergs helping him out, and he could have gotten Jaedong, the best Zerg, to help him out as well. Had he had gotten Jaedong's help as well, perhaps we would have seen more brutal one-sided games. On the other side, we're not sure who great practiced with. Was it only with his own teammates? If so, Samsung really needs to step up with how to prepare their players for important matches. Staying alone within your team will not cut it anymore.

After my prediction came true in game 1 with great using a Devourer-Mutalisk build, I wonder if the so-called "ZvZ revolution" he kept on talking about would involve more Devourers used in ZvZ lategame in the future? It made sense to me that great would use Devourers against Hydra, who has the best Mutalisk control, in order to counter him. It would be very interesting to see more Devourer-Mutalisk builds used in the future in lategame Hive tech play, along with possibly more Queens used for more purposes.
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-20 01:29:03
February 20 2011 01:27 GMT
#1157
Can't wait for the Vods and winner interview. Congratulations Hydra, while the finals wasn't against a big name opponent he really worked hard to win this MSL.

He only lost three games right in the entire MSL? Two games against JD and one against Great.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
February 20 2011 12:43 GMT
#1158
On February 20 2011 04:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2011 04:36 Subversive wrote:
On February 19 2011 19:09 Zona wrote:
On February 19 2011 19:03 Spica wrote:
I think that Hydra implied that Effort played a bigger role in helping him out behind the scenes

great looking unhappy with his $20,000 prize- who can blame him

heh, usually I dislike it when people question how "easy" a person's starleague run was...but look at great's

vs a slumping leta and a decent soulkey in the ro32
vs action's "amazing" zvz in the ro16
barely squeaks by the currently weak kal in the ro8
another zvz against a <50% in the form of zero in the semis


So much January bashing, Khan bashing and Great bashing makes me sad. I'm definitely not calling going through Leta and Soulkey, Action, Kal and Zero an easy run no matter who you are or what form they're in. Great's games felt a hell of a lot closer than Jaedong vs Yarnc. He deserves his silver at least as much as half a dozen other players out there.

In comparison Hydra went through Calm, Killer, Classic and Calm again before JD. I don't see how the first 4 are somehow harder than Great's opponents.

I said this earlier:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2011 12:35 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
So where does this leave Great? Great's current ELO is 2047... ouch. His peak was 2071, even lower than Movie's! He's never been even a whimper in any OSL. Did you know he's only qualified for 2 OSLs ever, and has never even made the Ro16? How the MSL? Well, he's qualified for... 3. He even made the Ro8 once! So, that's 5 starleague qualifications and 1 trip past the Ro16 in any of them (technically only one trip to the Ro16 as well). How did Great manage to get to the finals? Well, he beat Canata twice in the MST. Remember Canata? ELO 2020? A terran so bad now (and then) that he even lost to Juni has hasn't been played by SKT in almost 2 months? Fortuitous. In the Ro32, Great gets his 2 needed wins versus 2 super-slumpers known as Leta and Soulkey. Fortuitous. Next, he defeats Action. Impressive right? Ask any KT fan how wonderful Action's ZvZ is, and see if the can help themselves from crying. Fortuitous! But wait, wait, wait! Great then defeats Kal! Hey, Kal's a good player! Props to Great, right? NO. Kal has the most overrated PvZ of all time. How so? Because he is incapable of beating any zerg in a meaningful series! Nevermind his thrashings at the hands of Jaedong. Remember that 0-3 performance vs Effort in KAS1? And how about losing to teammate Modesty last season? Modesty? He has 38% win rate in ZvP for God's sake! In fact look at Kal's MSL and OSL history in TLPD. You'll see in all but 3 or 4 of the many leagues he's qualified for, he always gets fleeced by zergs. If Modesty can beat Kal, hell, so can the coin-flip ZvP of Great. Choking in starleagues is something Kal shares in common with Zero. And guess who Great played next? You guessed it! The Prince of Queens, Cute-choker himself. Zero's weakest MU shows up once again and he is bounced without much strain on Great. Fortuitous!


It's true, not paricularly strong runs by either player, but Hydra edges it out in my mind because he beat a seasonal semifinalist (Calm) and the best (perhaps second now?) zerg in the game (Jaedong). But who gives a shit how they got here. Hydra got the trophy, bottom line. A championship is a championship. Except for Casy's OSL.


Yeah I actually agree with what you previously wrote. And I definitely agree Hydra had the tougher overall opponents. I just think that plenty of players get lucky in their runs in tourney's, it's part of the nature of the system. I agree at the end of the day, a championship is a championship and Hydra well deserves his. (and yes, Great is somewhat of a big surprise for a finalist, even I'll readily admit that).
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
February 22 2011 06:17 GMT
#1159
ugh how did I miss this live

happy hydra won, but I feel bad for great and samsung with a silver =/
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
February 23 2011 10:47 GMT
#1160
It seemed like Great wasn't taking it seriously. Sure, he wants to be a ZvZ revolutionary and all, but you gotta take it one step at a time. Burrow? Wtf???

IMO, he should have done what he did game 1, and once he saw it worked, follow up with a 9pool speed or even a 5pool or something like that. He starts off with a quick 2-0 lead, and Hydra's on tilt for the rest of the set.
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