Pretty much hoping all left except Fantasy, but Shine will probably win. I don't really dislike Shine, but I don't think he should have a winstreak longer than just about every player in the game.
everything is right on it, with the exeption of the image tags on some, feel free to canibalise any parts of it you want; it will make me feel slightly better that I din't just waste my time .
On December 17 2010 17:32 hacklebeast wrote: everything is right on it, with the exeption of the image tags on some, feel free to canibalise any parts of it you want; it will make me feel slightly better that I din't just waste my time .
you got the day and the games wrong...those are next Wednesday's games,you can do the LR thread for that one.
On December 17 2010 17:32 hacklebeast wrote: everything is right on it, with the exeption of the image tags on some, feel free to canibalise any parts of it you want; it will make me feel slightly better that I din't just waste my time .
you got the day and the games wrong...those are next Wednesday's games,you can do the LR thread for that one.
wow... that makes me so sad and so happy at the same time im just sad now because only one matchup was wrong...' well at least some one made this before I did
Jaedong must win. Rooting for Fantasy. Other than that, I hope Hyuk goes 3-0 and Paralyze defeats Kal, so there is a tiebreaker and the afrotoss can advance :D. I estimated a 0.5% chance of Paralyze advancing, but given the MSL ro32 results, I think it might have gone up to almost 1%.
I really didn't see that coming, but I should've known better with Hyuk (not to mention how things have been going recently with the individual leagues).
If Flash beats Hyuk next week, and Kal beats Paralyze, it's tie-breakers for the two spots out of the group between Kal, Flash and Hyuk (everyone 2-1). If Kal wins and Flash loses, Flash can be eliminated. . .
On December 17 2010 19:49 alypse wrote: What is this? New trend in PvZ? almost every game I saw recently features a hydra bust. Looks like an easy win for Z.
Hydrabust is like the oldest shit in modern day ZvP, it probably accounts for 70+ % of all protoss losses last year.
On December 17 2010 19:49 alypse wrote: What is this? New trend in PvZ? almost every game I saw recently features a hydra bust. Looks like an easy win for Z.
Hydrabust is like the oldest shit in modern day ZvP, it probably accounts for 70+ % of all protoss losses last year.
That's what I always say when people ask why there is there no toss champs. Hydra busts
On December 17 2010 19:49 alypse wrote: What is this? New trend in PvZ? almost every game I saw recently features a hydra bust. Looks like an easy win for Z.
Hydrabust is like the oldest shit in modern day ZvP, it probably accounts for 70+ % of all protoss losses last year.
Zerg goes mutas he is a cheesing newbie, zerg goes sunken/zergling into ultra he is a camper, zerg goes hydra not fine too. Not directed to you personaly, I just dont like all that screaming when a big name protoss loses no matter what his opponent ''cheesed''.
On December 17 2010 19:57 Xinliben wrote: Oh man I was about to go to sleep and turned off my computer (It's 6 am) But then I remembed Jaedong was playing, and BAM HE'S NEXT. Fuck year. Lucky!
Go JD! Must not show weakness like flash! (hiya was something else obv.)
I remember when Calm was good.... hah just kidding. Hurry up and lose this JvZ so we can get to a good game like.... WHAT? Shine vs Mind? Dammit, this is a conspiracy. At least Shine has been doing well, so I suppose i can't complain too much.
On December 17 2010 20:00 seRapH wrote: I remember when Calm beat Jaedong 3-1 in the Avalon MSL. that was a good MSL.
The only game of that series I liked was the map (man how can I forget this stuff so fast), where calm tricked JD up by hiding the small match of lings inducing JD to overcommit to his own early aggression. Sneaky sneaky. Wait, was that the Avalon MSL?
On December 17 2010 20:00 seRapH wrote: I remember when Calm beat Jaedong 3-1 in the Avalon MSL. that was a good MSL.
The only game of that series I liked was the map (man how can I forget this stuff so fast), where calm tricked JD up by hiding the small match of lings inducing JD to overcommit to his own early aggression. Sneaky sneaky.
iirc that was heartbreak ridge (or neo heartbreak ridge, doesn't matter much for zvz)
On December 17 2010 19:49 alypse wrote: What is this? New trend in PvZ? almost every game I saw recently features a hydra bust. Looks like an easy win for Z.
Hydrabust is like the oldest shit in modern day ZvP, it probably accounts for 70+ % of all protoss losses last year.
Zerg goes mutas he is a cheesing newbie, zerg goes sunken/zergling into ultra he is a camper, zerg goes hydra not fine too. Not directed to you personaly, I just dont like all that screaming when a big name protoss loses no matter what his opponent ''cheesed''.
On December 17 2010 20:00 seRapH wrote: I remember when Calm beat Jaedong 3-1 in the Avalon MSL. that was a good MSL.
A ZvZ finals was a good finals? That was probably one of the most distasteful MSLs for me. And I wouldn't count that, Jaedong was so channeling all of his inner dong into manhandling fantasy in the OSL semifinals( which he did right after getting bunker rushed by fantasy in the proleague finals) and just demolished Fantasy.
You guys could probably say that Flash even managed to prepare for both OSL and MSL, but well Jaedong did manhandle Fantasy, so he just gave Calm the MSL. And Jaedong came back to destroy Calm with ease in one OSL or MSL which made Calm forgot how to ZvZ
On December 17 2010 20:00 seRapH wrote: I remember when Calm beat Jaedong 3-1 in the Avalon MSL. that was a good MSL.
The only game of that series I liked was the map (man how can I forget this stuff so fast), where calm tricked JD up by hiding the small match of lings inducing JD to overcommit to his own early aggression. Sneaky sneaky.
Mine was Calm > Kwanro when kwanro 4pooled a 12hatch and lost
On December 17 2010 20:00 seRapH wrote: I remember when Calm beat Jaedong 3-1 in the Avalon MSL. that was a good MSL.
A ZvZ finals was a good finals? That was probably one of the most distasteful MSLs for me. And I wouldn't count that, Jaedong was so channeling all of his inner dong into manhandling fantasy in the OSL semifinals( which he did right after getting bunker rushed by fantasy in the proleague finals) and just demolished Fantasy.
You guys could probably say that Flash even managed to prepare for both OSL and MSL, but well Jaedong did manhandle Fantasy, so he just gave Calm the MSL. And Jaedong came back to destroy Calm with ease in one OSL or MSL which made Calm forgot how to ZvZ
calm scouts the nat hatch, realizes he's gonna have to get something done with aggression or he's screwed lings move out, mutas do too JD with a well positioned overlord to see it ling attack doesn't even break the nat though
On December 17 2010 20:11 Xinliben wrote: Lol what, I didn't even see where calm was behind, then he lost.
he was behind in... everything 9pool vs overgas is a pretty big disadvantage - you end up with less gas, fewer drones, 1 fewer hatchery, and almost zero compensation
On December 17 2010 20:09 alffla wrote: lol hows this wrok. both lpayers have similar supply and resources yet jeaong can get a hatchery out first?
Overgas means more drones than 9pool. It's a pretty big advantage, especially when followed up by a ling contain to deny any ling damage until you both spire out
hmmm it looks like what happened was jaedong baited calm into attacking since he expanded calm thought he would have more units; but jaedong didn't make extra drones and won the micro war since he had similar unit count... does this sound possible? :x
On December 17 2010 20:13 Confuse wrote: hmmm it looks like what happened was jaedong baited calm into attacking since he expanded calm thought he would have more units; but jaedong didn't make extra drones and won the micro war since he had similar unit count... does this sound possible? :x
But at the same time a hatchery costs 300 minerals...o_O not using it is kinda wasteful =/
On December 17 2010 20:13 Confuse wrote: hmmm it looks like what happened was jaedong baited calm into attacking since he expanded calm thought he would have more units; but jaedong didn't make extra drones and won the micro war since he had similar unit count... does this sound possible? :x
On December 17 2010 20:13 Confuse wrote: hmmm it looks like what happened was jaedong baited calm into attacking since he expanded calm thought he would have more units; but jaedong didn't make extra drones and won the micro war since he had similar unit count... does this sound possible? :x
On December 17 2010 20:13 Confuse wrote: hmmm it looks like what happened was jaedong baited calm into attacking since he expanded calm thought he would have more units; but jaedong didn't make extra drones and won the micro war since he had similar unit count... does this sound possible? :x
But at the same time a hatchery costs 300 minerals...o_O not using it is kinda wasteful =/
Not really, the observer showed that Jaedong could at least use the extra larvae from the 2nd hatchery to spawn overlords. Huuuuge advantage especially if your opponent couldn't do anything with a 9 pool.
On December 17 2010 20:11 Xinliben wrote: Lol what, I didn't even see where calm was behind, then he lost.
Being one hatchery up on your opponent is a good advantage, Jaedong was able to produce ling+muta at the same time, whereas calm was stuck to one unit choice. That's why Calm moved out, but he was too late to prevent the loss.
On December 17 2010 20:13 Confuse wrote: hmmm it looks like what happened was jaedong baited calm into attacking since he expanded calm thought he would have more units; but jaedong didn't make extra drones and won the micro war since he had similar unit count... does this sound possible? :x
But at the same time a hatchery costs 300 minerals...o_O not using it is kinda wasteful =/
Not really, the observer showed that Jaedong could at least use the extra larvae from the 2nd hatchery to spawn overlords. Huuuuge advantage especially if your opponent couldn't do anything with a 9 pool.
Thanks for the insight, I didn't think of that. Yay for JD :D
btw I've just realised we can see a tiebreaker in group B O_o If Hiya < Calm and JD > Hogil, then all three will have 2-1 with Hiya>JD>Calm>Hiya. That'll be lol.
But I hope that Hiya doesn't go retarded and wins calm this time.
On December 17 2010 20:25 Nikon wrote: Mind got Jaedong's boothgirl, he is going to win!
Kal did too
Yeah, but that was before Jaedong's game yo! Although, I admit that I'm cheering for Shine here, if he wins an OSL, it would be downright hilarious. Unless you're a Bisu fan, that is.
On December 17 2010 20:26 konadora wrote: shine 100% winrate in last 10 9-1 in last 10 vT
when the shit?
For like two whole months he's been completely raping everyone seriously. Macro still seems bad but he's playing really smart (or lucky, but seems smart).
He's like on a 14 game win streak, getting dangerously close to GoRush's record.
On December 17 2010 20:26 konadora wrote: shine 100% winrate in last 10 9-1 in last 10 vT
when the shit?
For like two whole months he's been completely raping everyone seriously. Macro still seems bad but he's playing really smart (or lucky, but seems smart).
He's like on a 14 game win streak, getting dangerously close to GoRush's record.
Oh, 9 pool but no gas. That's quite standard, although a bit more aggressive than 12hatch... I guess Mind isn't Flash so against him 9 pool doesn't put you so behind anyway.
On December 17 2010 20:39 samachking wrote: What is this? Their supply counts are almost even? How did this happen after that early game? And he will get away with atleast 3 bases.
Yeah for some reason Mind decided to stall at 60 supply for a long long time, then with his investment in turrets struggled to regain momentum.
Shine used those lings as meat shields really well too.
Going to be tough to deal with tank vessel though.
Well, was making breakfast and heard the commentators yelling, thought something awesome is happening but it was just Mind retreating for whatever reason -.-
This is great to see. Finally Shine backs himself into a mid-late game situation and gets rolled. Deserved. Cant wait to see bisu vs shine in the MSL now
On December 17 2010 20:45 Womwomwom wrote: Probably one of the most unsuccessful harass attempts, how did you fail to get anything with 4 speed vultures?
Mind's vulture control was such that Shine's static defence was able to outmaneuver the vultures.
Why are people hating on Shine for that game? He obviously expect something non-standard from Mind (not a terrible bet) and went pool first. When Terran goes rax-expand against pool-first from Zerg that heavily favours Terran in the mid game. It's not like Shine made any major blunders that game, or did I miss something???
Nothing unexpected, Mind is one of the more clever players around (definitely more than most players Shine played in his streak) and he has to know Shine very well from practice.
Anyway, I like Shine but I like Mind more, so good job!
On December 17 2010 20:53 Goragoth wrote: Why are people hating on Shine for that game? He obviously expect something non-standard from Mind (not a terrible bet) and went pool first. When Terran goes rax-expand against pool-first from Zerg that heavily favours Terran in the mid game. It's not like Shine made any major blunders that game, or did I miss something???
Losing all his lurkers for nothing was a pretty big blunder. Losing the overlord early neutered his three hatch too.
On December 17 2010 20:53 Goragoth wrote: Why are people hating on Shine for that game? He obviously expect something non-standard from Mind (not a terrible bet) and went pool first. When Terran goes rax-expand against pool-first from Zerg that heavily favours Terran in the mid game. It's not like Shine made any major blunders that game, or did I miss something???
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
On December 17 2010 20:58 kdong90 wrote: i think the person that loses here will mostly likely be eliminated since they both have 1 loss under their belt
if fantasy wins it's in his own hands. if free wins he may still end up with tiebreakers if other results go badly
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
Fantasy ready for another small battle in the elo assault on JD and YH, curious to see if he's up to it. After all this time he's got to do something significant before he turns into a terran stork.
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
On December 17 2010 20:53 Goragoth wrote: Why are people hating on Shine for that game? He obviously expect something non-standard from Mind (not a terrible bet) and went pool first. When Terran goes rax-expand against pool-first from Zerg that heavily favours Terran in the mid game. It's not like Shine made any major blunders that game, or did I miss something???
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
Everyone in this thread is awesome.
Much love.
I will meet you someday.
Gonna have to save up for a long time on interac salary >< But soon! I will do the bike trip again next year, and maybe I can budget more time if you are still in Hiroshima. Thinnk you will still be there? Did you see my pics from that trip? It wasn't so far from Hiroshima at all.
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
Everyone in this thread is awesome.
much thanks!
you are still more awesome than everyone else though.
On December 17 2010 20:58 Manifesto7 wrote: Can I be honest? There is little more that I wanted from tonight than to watch the OSL and chat about it with my fellow nerds from around the world.
On December 17 2010 20:53 Goragoth wrote: Why are people hating on Shine for that game? He obviously expect something non-standard from Mind (not a terrible bet) and went pool first. When Terran goes rax-expand against pool-first from Zerg that heavily favours Terran in the mid game. It's not like Shine made any major blunders that game, or did I miss something???
On December 17 2010 21:11 Kiante wrote: zeealot coming in to bring some ruckus
if ruckus means a face full of grenades.
Is anyone else getting a real hum in the audio?
The slight humming is coming from the OGN stream, Can't do anything about it unfortunately.
Edit: luckily one can only hear it when the commentators (+game sounds) are all silent which they rarely are.
Yeah it sounded like it was from the studio. I thought maybe it was because of fantasy's equipment screwing up. But yeah, it is almost never noticeable. Thanks a lot for streaming
Fantasy has 30+ extra supply and drops 3 more depots right away. He fills up supply so fast.
I really like free decisions making to not recall near the factorys but in t he back of the base as he saw how clumbed fanta's entrance and factory placement was.
fantasy, with an arb build, you are supposed to mine and turret your main + expos and not clump your tanks. Not leave your main undefended and let free stasis 10 of your tanks at once, not that that happened but still fantasy playng pretty bad. and free just expoing everywhehe
On December 17 2010 21:30 4Servy wrote: protoss upgrades matter so little when terran has 3/2 you need air tech vs that its just cost effective as hell.
Man, I just impulsively root for Terran in this matchup but it fucking hurts when I'm like 'this Protoss is finished, bwahaha.... Fuck. This is fantasy winning isn't it.'
On December 17 2010 21:39 Kipsate wrote: Yaaaa pwning game
Amazing comeback by Fantasy when he was 2-3 bases behind or so lol
That wasn't a comeback at all, at no point in that game was Fantasy in danger.
Yeah pretty much, sweet recall was sweet but he forgot about Fantasy's multi-control groups worth of siege tanks.
Gotta be able to break through that to win the game, stasis makes it easier but upgraded tanks/vultures can pretty much melt a disproportionate number of dragoons/zealots. Needed storm badly at that point (clumped tanks holy shit asking for storm seriously) and Free didn't really use them beyond "base defense".
How can that game be recommended, Fantasy had 4000 minerals and 1000 gas and somehow Free was still managing to put no pressure on him. Boring, boring stuff.
On December 17 2010 21:45 Turbovolver wrote: How can that game be recommended, Fantasy had 4000 minerals and 1000 gas and somehow Free was still managing to put no pressure on him. Boring, boring stuff.
because it was the best game of the day....its not a long term recommendation.
On December 17 2010 21:45 Turbovolver wrote: How can that game be recommended, Fantasy had 4000 minerals and 1000 gas and somehow Free was still managing to put no pressure on him. Boring, boring stuff.
On December 17 2010 21:45 Turbovolver wrote: How can that game be recommended, Fantasy had 4000 minerals and 1000 gas and somehow Free was still managing to put no pressure on him. Boring, boring stuff.
Group A: Hyuk/Kal wins = Hyuk wins group, Kal second Hyuk/Paralyze wins = Hyuk wins group, tiebreaker for second Flash/Kal wins = tiebreaker for two spots between those two and Hyuk Flash/Paralyze wins = Flash wins group, Hyuk second
Group B: Hiya/JD wins = Hiya first, JD second Hiya/Hogil wins = Hiya first, three way ZvZ fest for second Calm/JD wins = tiebreaker for two spots between those two and Hiya Calm/Hogil wins = Hiya wins group, Hogil second
Group C: Stork/Mind wins = Stork first, Mind second Stork/Sea wins = Stork first, tiebreakers for second Shine/Mind wins = tiebreaker for two spots between those two and Stork Shine/Sea wins = Shine wins group, Stork second
Group D: Modesty has won the group, winner of Fantasy/Hydra is second.
These 19:30 KST matches are too hard to watch in EST (it's like what, 5:30 in the morning?), but checking the results in the morning makes me surprised everyday. Yesterday was perhaps the most shocking (MSL). Today... I find Hyuk is 2-0 in his group -_-; WHATS GOING ON
Hyuk won and that gives AfroToss chances to qualify. Hyuk should be used in PL to snipe Protoss cuz his ZvP is steady compared to other Z players this season.
And yes Mind beating Shine makes my day along with Fanta & JD wins.
anyone else get the feeling shine just threw his match? i mean it was a teamkill and he already said something along the lines of "I don't want to beat mind because he's 0-1"
Holy shit, ideal results. I think esports got tired of screwing me over in the last few weeks and decided to give me this. And we have yet to see whether Hyuk will 3-0 or if we're gonna have a tiebreaker.
On December 18 2010 00:29 zenMaster wrote: Hyuk > Flash via 4 pool vs 14cc Kal > Paralyze via experience
Bye Flash
Actually possible scenario
Impossible. People saying Flash is going to 14CC Hyuk, a guy who has generally been abysmal at TvZ, don't understand Flash's relationship with 14CC beyond the fact he likes the opener. In TvZ, at the very least, Flash basically only 14CCs tough opponents like GGPlay, Savior, and Jaedong. Beyond the best ZvTers, he doesn't really bother with it because they're all scrubs compared to him and he doesn't need it since 1 Rax CC and its variants are all so powerful already. No, Flash is going to open 1 Rax CC against Hyuk.
An actual possible scenario would be Hyuk doing some crazy barely two base lurker all in like Calm attempted to do on Moon Glave, only here Flash fails to "feel" it in time. That or bad spawn positions for terran occur and we get another Modesty vs Fantasy where mutalisks basically end up controlling the mineral lines. I doubt it'll be a long game anyway seeing the longer the game is, the less chance Hyuk has of winning.
On December 18 2010 00:29 zenMaster wrote: Hyuk > Flash via 4 pool vs 14cc Kal > Paralyze via experience
Bye Flash
Actually possible scenario
Impossible. People saying Flash is going to 14CC Hyuk, a guy who has generally been abysmal at TvZ, don't understand Flash's relationship with 14CC beyond the fact he likes the opener. In TvZ, at the very least, Flash basically only 14CCs tough opponents like GGPlay, Savior, and Jaedong. Beyond the best ZvTers, he doesn't really bother with it because they're all scrubs compared to him and he doesn't need it since 1 Rax CC and its variants are all so powerful already. No, Flash is going to open 1 Rax CC against Hyuk.
An actual possible scenario would be Hyuk doing some crazy barely two base lurker all in like Calm attempted to do on Moon Glave, only here Flash fails to "feel" it in time. That or bad spawn positions for terran occur and we get another Modesty vs Fantasy where mutalisks basically end up controlling the mineral lines. I doubt it'll be a long game anyway seeing the longer the game is, the less chance Hyuk has of winning.
On December 17 2010 23:10 ItsBigfoot wrote: anyone else get the feeling shine just threw his match? i mean it was a teamkill and he already said something along the lines of "I don't want to beat mind because he's 0-1"
eh, I doubt he did it intentionally. He might not have given it 100%, though. He was in a great position up until he walked his entire army into Mind's ball.
On December 17 2010 23:10 ItsBigfoot wrote: anyone else get the feeling shine just threw his match? i mean it was a teamkill and he already said something along the lines of "I don't want to beat mind because he's 0-1"
Yeah, Shine really threw away a 14 game winning streak to help out his 0-1 teammate -.-
You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Love how you complain about haters and then proceed to whip out some silly hate yourself. Nice.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
The name calling is completely uncalled for.
The only way for Sea to have a chance to advance was for Mind to beat Shine so of course people were rooting for Mind.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
On December 17 2010 23:10 ItsBigfoot wrote: anyone else get the feeling shine just threw his match? i mean it was a teamkill and he already said something along the lines of "I don't want to beat mind because he's 0-1"
Yeah, Shine really threw away a 14 game winning streak to help out his 0-1 teammate -.-
a true friend? i would like my teammate to do the same for me :-)
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
So you admit Bisu's run in Proleague is a fluke
Bisu has 3 titles and a long history of dominance to back up that he's actually good. This is the only thing Shine has accomplished other than knocking out Bisu/Stork then losing like a total noob. Fluke or not, you can't deny that Bisu is actually good. Shine, not so much.
Bisu let his sairs idle for literally 2 seconds too long then flopped a won game vs a last-ditch muta switch then got basically out BO'd in the all-in war game 2.
but I was rooting for Shine in this. He really did throw the game away with that one attack. I was thinking "man Shine's in great shape" before that with Lurkers out early and easily positioned defensively and Hive tech nearing finished... and then he throw away like 40-50 food for 10 marines. =/.
But anyway, Shine's streak was remarkable only by virtue of it being a streak. Almost every game he won was versus a bad opponent. He beat BByong, Ruby, Sunyx2 (all weak), Bisu x2 (covered in spoiler), Snow (who has been in a mild slump and has below average pvz, but is at least a decent opponent), Soo, who sucks zvz (33%), a slumping Action, Cloud, Sea (I forget this game), Princess, and Sea via all-in. All-in-all you've got basically 3 good opponents. Of those, he lucked out against Bisu, he all-in'd Sea once of two (Sea is 4-8 of his last 12 TvZ, 4-5 this season), and he beat Snow (6 game PvZ losing streak, 3-7 this season).
The whole Bisu thing is why everyone is awaiting that Shine-Bisu rematch, btb.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
So you admit Bisu's run in Proleague is a fluke
Bisu has 3 titles and a long history of dominance to back up that he's actually good. This is the only thing Shine has accomplished other than knocking out Bisu/Stork then losing like a total noob. Fluke or not, you can't deny that Bisu is actually good. Shine, not so much.
Lol, total noob.
I love how after knocking bisu and stork out people just choose to forget what shine did after.
Beat Effort twice Beat Fantasy, Iris, and Violet Beat Stork twice and took a game off Movie (who was a beast pvz player at the time) Beat Kal Beat Bisu, again Beat Hyuk Beat Effort, again Beat go.go twitce Beat Hydra, Calm, Soulkey, Much, Canata, and Chavi in succession (6 game winstreak) Beat Kal again Beat Leta Beat Kal, Stats, and Leta in succession Went on an 11 game winstreak that involved beating Bisu twice.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
So you admit Bisu's run in Proleague is a fluke
Bisu has 3 titles and a long history of dominance to back up that he's actually good. This is the only thing Shine has accomplished other than knocking out Bisu/Stork then losing like a total noob. Fluke or not, you can't deny that Bisu is actually good. Shine, not so much.
Lol, total noob.
I love how after knocking bisu and stork out people just choose to forget what shine did after.
Beat Effort twice Beat Fantasy, Iris, and Violet Beat Stork twice and took a game off Movie (who was a beast pvz player at the time) Beat Kal Beat Bisu, again Beat Hyuk Beat Effort, again Beat go.go twitce Beat Hydra, Calm, Soulkey, Much, Canata, and Chavi in succession (6 game winstreak) Beat Kal again Beat Leta Beat Kal, Stats, and Leta in succession Went on an 11 game winstreak that involved beating Bisu twice.
How does that make him a noob?
It's all about HOW he did it. Aside from ZvZ, nearly all of his wins are from all-ins of one form or another.
People hate Shine because of his stupid cheeses/all-ins that show no skill. That's all. Shine's haters just outnumber Shine's lovers. That means he deserves to be hated because he did something that made the majority of the community hate him. Majority > Minority : The hate on Shine is justified.
That's right - nobody cares about Mind but some care about underdogs and some are anti-Shine fans which is okey (we have anti-fans for every good player here). Seeing how Shine/Bisu fans brought up this rematch, makes it look bigger than it should be
Throwing away games is simply unsportsmanlike btw and not only that - it's stupid and could lead to elimination of yourself.
So.. looks like Group A is going into tie breakers? Most likely outcome of next set of games.
Flash > Hyuk (6:1, head-to-head) and Kal > Paralyze (Kal has solid PvP and Paralyze is looking like he fluked his way into ro16), putting Hyuk/Flash/Kal into a 2-1 tie.
On December 18 2010 08:18 Hazard wrote: That's right - nobody cares about Mind but some care about underdogs and some are anti-Shine fans which is okey (we have anti-fans for every good player here). Seeing how Shine/Bisu fans brought up this rematch, makes it look bigger than it should be
Throwing away games is simply unsportsmanlike btw and not only that - it's stupid and could lead to elimination of yourself.
But...but....I do D: I guess I'm the minority in this. I just want to see Mind return to that form he had when he went on his MSL run knocking off Savior/Bisu. :[
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
So you admit Bisu's run in Proleague is a fluke
Bisu has 3 titles and a long history of dominance to back up that he's actually good. This is the only thing Shine has accomplished other than knocking out Bisu/Stork then losing like a total noob. Fluke or not, you can't deny that Bisu is actually good. Shine, not so much.
Lol, total noob.
I love how after knocking bisu and stork out people just choose to forget what shine did after.
Beat Effort twice Beat Fantasy, Iris, and Violet Beat Stork twice and took a game off Movie (who was a beast pvz player at the time) Beat Kal Beat Bisu, again Beat Hyuk Beat Effort, again Beat go.go twitce Beat Hydra, Calm, Soulkey, Much, Canata, and Chavi in succession (6 game winstreak) Beat Kal again Beat Leta Beat Kal, Stats, and Leta in succession Went on an 11 game winstreak that involved beating Bisu twice.
How does that make him a noob?
It's all about HOW he did it. Aside from ZvZ, nearly all of his wins are from all-ins of one form or another.
Wow shine hate is soooo stupid. I'm not even his fan. Here's some non ZvZ against known players
Shine vs. Fantasy, Fantasy does his make one of each unit build and builds no units. Shine goes 2 hatch muta and punishes Fantasy. There was nothing Shine did that was "all-in," in fact everything was scouted by Fanta with his wraith. Do you think Shine should just drone up and just roll over and die? His actions were perfect counter to Fantasy's stupid build.
Shine vs. Kal Shine raped Kal in late game, nuff said. Shine played great defense and stalled until he had hive and 4 bases running. Cracklings and backstabs shutdown Kal's third easily.
shine vs. Leta Leta goes 2 port wrath. Shine overwhelms him with mutas.
Shine vs. Bisu (last two games) 1st game: Both play standard. Bisu looks to win, then Shine ingeniously makes mutas out of nowhere, more importantly, they take out all the corsairs. Bisu fails to adapt to Shine's style and loses to one group of mutas for being stubborn and not making archons or more cannons
2nd game: Bisu also went all in with his goon attack timing.
Granted i don't remember every game perfectly, but the point being Shine doesn't always "all-in" and "cheese" way through his opponents. And playing that aggressive takes skills. Blame you favorite players for not adjusting to his style, whereas Shine punishes opponent's style of play.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
Normally I don't hate Shine, even though he eliminated Bisu/Stork. But I can't watch as someone who really doesn't have too much skill get a higher winstreak than the best players of our time. You can say that you can't argue with results, but in this case you really can. I can't really say that his games are a show of skill, only that he keeps being successful with hyper-aggressive play which, after it is noted by the opponent, is relatively easy to counter.
So you admit Bisu's run in Proleague is a fluke
Bisu has 3 titles and a long history of dominance to back up that he's actually good. This is the only thing Shine has accomplished other than knocking out Bisu/Stork then losing like a total noob. Fluke or not, you can't deny that Bisu is actually good. Shine, not so much.
Lol, total noob.
I love how after knocking bisu and stork out people just choose to forget what shine did after.
Beat Effort twice Beat Fantasy, Iris, and Violet Beat Stork twice and took a game off Movie (who was a beast pvz player at the time) Beat Kal Beat Bisu, again Beat Hyuk Beat Effort, again Beat go.go twitce Beat Hydra, Calm, Soulkey, Much, Canata, and Chavi in succession (6 game winstreak) Beat Kal again Beat Leta Beat Kal, Stats, and Leta in succession Went on an 11 game winstreak that involved beating Bisu twice.
How does that make him a noob?
It's all about HOW he did it. Aside from ZvZ, nearly all of his wins are from all-ins of one form or another.
So people are flaming him for doing what works? And it's not like he went "trolololol i4poolu lololol" cheese. The players he beat aren't stupid, they are quite capable of reading mid game aggression or allin and play accordingly, and Shine sure as hell weren't the first to cheese them in progames. Hyuk allined. Kwanro allined (a lot), and so did many other zergs. But none of them can pull it off as crisp, as often, and as convincing as Shine. Shine can play mindgames. Shine knows how to mask his builds. Shine has the mechanics to do what needs to be done.
If your *insert favorite player here* can't adapt against him and lose in some horribly fashion, then go flame them instead. You people sounds like fucking Idra (see Rek's rant on him here). If he's a skilless noobie, what does it make the people he beat?
Shine is a great example of someone with nice, refined aggression. It's not like he's abusing the game (...gives a certain other game the death stare), he just makes really good decisions that often times result in shorter games rather than massing one unit and rolling to victory.
shine is aggressive BO player, fantasy is exactly the same, a player who relies 100% on his build orders that got him to 2 OSL finals in which he completely crumbled against players who exhibit strategies he can't adapt to or can't follow up after he got his BO's countered.
and people who cry bisu is good, bisu WAS good, his last title won was over 2 years ago. he was good last year around august, WCG where he dominated flash 2-1. bisu hasn't been any good for over a year now, his 11 pvz win streak was a complete fluke, 6 of the games he played were unconvincing as hell.
On December 18 2010 00:29 zenMaster wrote: Hyuk > Flash via 4 pool vs 14cc Kal > Paralyze via experience
Bye Flash
Actually possible scenario
Impossible. People saying Flash is going to 14CC Hyuk, a guy who has generally been abysmal at TvZ, don't understand Flash's relationship with 14CC beyond the fact he likes the opener. In TvZ, at the very least, Flash basically only 14CCs tough opponents like GGPlay, Savior, and Jaedong. Beyond the best ZvTers, he doesn't really bother with it because they're all scrubs compared to him and he doesn't need it since 1 Rax CC and its variants are all so powerful already. No, Flash is going to open 1 Rax CC against Hyuk.
An actual possible scenario would be Hyuk doing some crazy barely two base lurker all in like Calm attempted to do on Moon Glave, only here Flash fails to "feel" it in time. That or bad spawn positions for terran occur and we get another Modesty vs Fantasy where mutalisks basically end up controlling the mineral lines. I doubt it'll be a long game anyway seeing the longer the game is, the less chance Hyuk has of winning.
He was obviously half joking....
A lot of people seem to seriously suggesting it, not to mention the whole Flash 14CC joke was run into the ground like two whole years ago so its barely a joke anyway.
On December 18 2010 03:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You know you're an arrogant bitter hater (Bisu/Stork lover) when you root for fucking Mind instead of Shine. I'd rather watch paint dry than any of Mind's games.
On December 18 2010 08:18 Hazard wrote: That's right - nobody cares about Mind but some care about underdogs and some are anti-Shine fans which is okey (we have anti-fans for every good player here). Seeing how Shine/Bisu fans brought up this rematch, makes it look bigger than it should be
Throwing away games is simply unsportsmanlike btw and not only that - it's stupid and could lead to elimination of yourself.
But...but....I do D: I guess I'm the minority in this. I just want to see Mind return to that form he had when he went on his MSL run knocking off Savior/Bisu. :[
My thoughts (wish) exactly. Don't worry Apex, minority maybe, but alone not!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/g25d5.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/nMEmL.png)
Kal < Pathfinder > 
Hyuk
Mind < Aztec > ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Q7eU7.png)
![[image loading]](http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/725/jaedongwallpaper3kopia.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qCqLU.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/q2F4U.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/t25ar.jpg)
[http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/5243879062_9578e009fe_m.jpg![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/211.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1411/5182969101_c40d98e9c1_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/1uYin.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1282/5183445768_895bc79c58_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/623.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5245/5243280943_09ab5c177a_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/o6AJj.jpg)
.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/BjQq0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Erich.Draganits/images/Animated/dance.gif)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/FwMTx.png)
okay?!
