Manly Protoss army moves out with all sorts of shiny archon, dark archon, high templar, observer, etc toys. Reach with his traditional 12-dragoon backbone haha.
On December 13 2010 20:12 Holgerius wrote: What happened to Reach's macro in the end there? He still had a decent econ, but it seemed like almost no units were popping out.
I think that one doom drop hurt him a lot. He lost a lot of tech and gates. Then gorush started taking out expos while he had no army.
Ok because reach is so baller and is amazingly sexy i've decided to give him that game anyway, he wins because he won our hearts, and thats what counts silly gorush just focusing on sc :\
On December 13 2010 20:12 Holgerius wrote: What happened to Reach's macro in the end there? He still had a decent econ, but it seemed like almost no units were popping out.
I think that one doom drop hurt him a lot. He lost a lot of tech and gates. Then gorush started taking out expos while he had no army.
Didn't watch the game too closely there (making fooood), so it might've done more damage than I though. =/
On December 13 2010 20:10 kuroshiroi wrote: Looks like Reach is going to take this.
You watching a different game?
It looked like GoRush had no army left and was about to have only 1 mining base vs. 3, then Reach completely fell apart. My bad ^^
Every time gorush lost an army, he had another one in maybe 20 seconds It was reach's army that shrunk and never got around to being replenished in a significant way despite having so many bases (his probe saturation wasn't close to maximum though)
On December 13 2010 20:12 Holgerius wrote: What happened to Reach's macro in the end there? He still had a decent econ, but it seemed like almost no units were popping out.
I think that one doom drop hurt him a lot. He lost a lot of tech and gates. Then gorush started taking out expos while he had no army.
Didn't watch the game too closely there (making fooood), so it might've done more damage than I though. =/
killed all the tech and a couple of gateways.
reach crushed a lurker heavy army but lost heaps of zealots. gorush rallied a stack of crackling that destroyed whatever reach had (mainly goons, ht/archon)
On December 13 2010 20:10 kuroshiroi wrote: Looks like Reach is going to take this.
You watching a different game?
It looked like GoRush had no army left and was about to have only 1 mining base vs. 3, then Reach completely fell apart. My bad ^^
Every time gorush lost an army, he had another one in maybe 20 seconds It was reach's army that shrunk and never got around to being replenished in a significant way despite having so many bases (his probe saturation wasn't close to maximum though)
I always forget that zerg can remake their army in about 30 seconds...
On December 13 2010 20:10 kuroshiroi wrote: Looks like Reach is going to take this.
You watching a different game?
It looked like GoRush had no army left and was about to have only 1 mining base vs. 3, then Reach completely fell apart. My bad ^^
Every time gorush lost an army, he had another one in maybe 20 seconds It was reach's army that shrunk and never got around to being replenished in a significant way despite having so many bases (his probe saturation wasn't close to maximum though)
He took 5th too early. That way he he could never mass up the death ball, so he kept on losing important units in battles. Then the doom drop took out way too much.
On December 13 2010 20:10 kuroshiroi wrote: Looks like Reach is going to take this.
You watching a different game?
It looked like GoRush had no army left and was about to have only 1 mining base vs. 3, then Reach completely fell apart. My bad ^^
Every time gorush lost an army, he had another one in maybe 20 seconds It was reach's army that shrunk and never got around to being replenished in a significant way despite having so many bases (his probe saturation wasn't close to maximum though)
I always forget that zerg can remake their army in about 30 seconds...
Eh? It's what makes the zerg the zerg. Heaven help them if they lose a significant amount of drones in the early or mid-game though.
On December 13 2010 20:20 Fenrax wrote: He took 5th too early. That way he he could never mass up the death ball, so he kept on losing important units in battles. Then the doom drop took out way too much.
nah, it was a decent timing. too many cannons though, needed reavers.
1st vulture out for frog - bunker done at FBH's nat - frog wastes his rines to the bunker and scvs block the vulture from heading into the main whoops!
frog's own nat almost done, FBH's factory finishes and immediately starts a machine shop
On December 13 2010 20:33 b0lt wrote: Why did forgg lift his rax after scouting the cc? If he had just continued marine production, wouldn't he have just outright won right there?
bunker holds against infinite rines FBH's bunker was actually surprisingly late given his 1 rax CC build
both players adding an academy
first dropship out for FBH, picks up an SCV and drops it at 12
FBH sieges a bunch of tanks on the NW hex side 2 rines loaded into FBH's dropship, will probably drop on the island no? dropped in the NE of the map odd one rine does head to 1.5 to scout
3 fact 3 shop for Forgg now - like 7 tanks heading NW for him
Frog starting his comeback? FBH isn't doing much with his econ advantage he's not macro'ing a huge army and isn't harassing well either FBH landing a CC north of 10 to mine merely from the gas there
FBH adding some buildings to 8? not sure what they are
FBH adding double armory at 1.5
both palyers preparing for BC transition?
drop vs drop outside FBH's base at 1
Frog doesn't control his dropships and loses most of them by continuing to fly them north
Frog expanding to 4? something there on the minimap that observer isn't showing
FBH hasn't done any expanding in ages...don't forget about maintaining an economic advantage
mass tank attacking towards FBH's megachoke the one valk is lost to wraiths and 4 goliaths not enough to hold off the wraiths
only 2 tanks survive to siege up FBH's nat - FBH loses 2 tanks as they siege to defend but Forgg's attack is terminated by new forces from FBH's factories
And the thing is, it's not the first time FBH threw away an advantage TvT with a wraith switch - it's just that last time he managed to re-comeback...didn't learn his lesson then because he didn't feel the pain of a loss, I guess
Bah...I just checked for specifics - it was the game he immediately played before this one where he let Mind come back after going nukes and massing wraiths...
forgg was like ahead in bases on fbh and fbh didnt commit to wraiths and did jack with them forgg qwon fair and sqaure although the game was really sloppy it was a gg
I hate the fashion of recent years, where observers don't showing players' bases in order to make it more exciting when one player suddenly has such and such units.
I've seen it happen quite a few times that there are suddenly 4 loaded Carriers. That's an entire tech tree, including some upgrades, and it just takes one second to reveal it. It really used to be different.
On December 13 2010 21:04 GeLaar wrote: I hate the fashion of recent years, where observers don't showing players' bases in order to make it more exciting when one player suddenly has such and such units.
Is that the real reason? It's on purpose? That's extremely lame and something I greatly despise, if true. Especially given that BW has been around so long, most fans are now pretty informed and would rather see the details.
I just thought the seasoned observers somehow left and we were left with crappy untrained ones. Heck there were a few games in recent memory where there was only one observer and no backup...
The observers are also to slow to show expansions and such.
On December 13 2010 21:04 GeLaar wrote: It really used to be different.
Yeah, tell me about it. It used to be different, and much better.
On December 13 2010 21:04 GeLaar wrote: I hate the fashion of recent years, where observers don't showing players' bases in order to make it more exciting when one player suddenly has such and such units.
Is that the real reason? It's on purpose? That's extremely lame and something I greatly despise, if true. Especially given that BW has been around so long, most fans are now pretty informed and would rather see the details.
I just thought the seasoned observers somehow left and we were left with crappy untrained ones. Heck there were a few games in recent memory where there was only one observer and no backup...
The observers are also to slow to show expansions and such.
On December 13 2010 21:04 GeLaar wrote: It really used to be different.
Yeah, tell me about it. It used to be different, and much better.
I can't explain it any other way. It's just too obvious. I seem to remember that 5+ years ago it used to be standard practice to regularly show players' bases, and the surprises were of the "oooh, he's going for that"-sort, whereas now it's "omg, Battlecruiser fleet!!!". And you're right, they also fail to show things that are visible on the mini-map, sometimes while they keep talking about how the situation is so-and-so (which is wrong).
On December 13 2010 21:05 kuroshiroi wrote: That wasn't ForGG winning, that was FBH losing. At least the game was fun
Well Forgg responded well considering the disadvantaged situation he was in.
But why did FBH suddenly forget about expanding and taking out enemy expansions?
I think the transition to wraith cost him the game. Really he had a great positions with drops all around the middle map, but then his wraiths did so little damage compared to what FBH invested in this tech.
On December 13 2010 21:04 GeLaar wrote: I hate the fashion of recent years, where observers don't showing players' bases in order to make it more exciting when one player suddenly has such and such units.
Is that the real reason? It's on purpose? That's extremely lame and something I greatly despise, if true. Especially given that BW has been around so long, most fans are now pretty informed and would rather see the details.
I just thought the seasoned observers somehow left and we were left with crappy untrained ones. Heck there were a few games in recent memory where there was only one observer and no backup...
The observers are also to slow to show expansions and such.
On December 13 2010 21:04 GeLaar wrote: It really used to be different.
Yeah, tell me about it. It used to be different, and much better.
I can't explain it any other way. It's just too obvious. I seem to remember that 5+ years ago it used to be standard practice to regularly show players' bases, and the surprises were of the "oooh, he's going for that"-sort, whereas now it's "omg, Battlecruiser fleet!!!". And you're right, they also fail to show things that are visible on the mini-map, sometimes while they keep talking about how the situation is so-and-so (which is wrong).
Was it really that bad this game? We saw ForGG's Physics Lab well ahead of time, and by the time he'd made 4 BCs the game was basically over anyway. The BCs made virtually no difference this game.
As for relative army sizes, it was pretty obvious ForGG was going to be way ahead on ground army once FBH burned so much money on Wraiths and lost a lot of them. Overall I didn't think there was anything that surprising about the observer style - sure they missed two BC rounds but I wouldn't even have cared to see them given the context of the game.
On December 13 2010 21:05 kuroshiroi wrote: That wasn't ForGG winning, that was FBH losing. At least the game was fun
Well Forgg responded well considering the disadvantaged situation he was in.
But why did FBH suddenly forget about expanding and taking out enemy expansions?
I think the transition to wraith cost him the game. Really he had a great positions with drops all around the middle map, but then his wraiths did so little damage compared to what FBH invested in this tech.
Pretty much what I was thinking, he made 10 starports and maybe 40 wraith and they really didn't do as much damage as they should have. He could've used them to snipe SCVs or even expansions but didn't.
I think FBH may have overestimated his advantage quite badly there.
On December 13 2010 21:05 kuroshiroi wrote: That wasn't ForGG winning, that was FBH losing. At least the game was fun
Well Forgg responded well considering the disadvantaged situation he was in.
But why did FBH suddenly forget about expanding and taking out enemy expansions?
I think the transition to wraith cost him the game. Really he had a great positions with drops all around the middle map, but then his wraiths did so little damage compared to what FBH invested in this tech.
Pretty much what I was thinking, he made 10 starports and maybe 40 wraith and they really didn't do as much damage as they should have. He could've used them to snipe SCVs or even expansions but didn't.
I think FBH may have overestimated his advantage quite badly there.
i think it was FBH's poor saturation for 1 oclock and natural. if it was well-saturated, he could have CONSTANTLY pumped out wraiths, not leaving any breathing space for fOrGG
yeah, action massing a LOT of mutas pure muta mass heading into ruby's main - just 4 goliaths there 2 more now - some get picked off but action has to back off has his mutas take a lot of damage
On December 13 2010 21:32 Holgerius wrote: Come on kid, this is just like all those practise games vs Flash when he's turtling. You know how to deal with this, don't you?
Thatta boy. ^__^
KT finally wins one (counting on Flash to go 2-0)!
u cant go mech vs action cause with mech u have the time to make only one push before his defilers and once action has defilers ruby's tvz wont be enough
On December 13 2010 21:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: You guys don't know anything about fighting mech. You HAVE to suicide hydras constantly. That's how you slowly break them lol.
Not the way he was doing on several occations in this game. There were plenty of times where he lost units in a completely unneccesary way. He did well overall though. ^__^
Ruby's a joke..........y doesnt he incorporate valks with his mech build..........Everyone saw how flash destroyed action last year with the same build.....he's failed twice with the same build same map.......
Also action demonstrating what I think is the best way to beat goliath heavy mech -- one good plague. Mech is so much more fucked if a plague goes off than MnM ever is.
On December 13 2010 21:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: You guys don't know anything about fighting mech. You HAVE to suicide hydras constantly. That's how you slowly break them lol.
Not the way he was doing on several occations in this game. There were plenty of times where he lost units in a completely unneccesary way. He did well overall though. ^__^
Unless you have twelve thousand APM, you can't perfectly control all of your units. Suiciding units needlessly sometimes is necessary just so you can keep up the pressure and still do everything else. No zerg alive can handle attacking mech perfectly without losing stuff needlessly. Cost efficiency isn't the idea.
I don't know what Ruby sees in this map to keep going mech...as this game demonstrates, it's really tough to cover both your main/nat and your 3rd (wherever you take it) at the same time.
On December 13 2010 21:40 alffla wrote: LOL the ad showing the removal of Central Plains from teh map. cue super sad violin music and shots of all protoss players
yeah I saw that yesterday,poor Horang2 and his protoss plains.
On December 13 2010 21:43 Holgerius wrote: It's actually possible for KT to take this without having to play Flash, if Violet and Stats gets good MU's. :D
A lot of scenarios are "possible". But I reckon Flash is coming out all the same.
On December 13 2010 21:35 KTF_CloaK wrote: GG!!!!!
this is looking a lot like the old kt!!!!!!!! brilliant play by action, poking everywhere, massive drops, swarms and stuff
wow im happy now :D
hah, fannning like hell, Action's play way miles away from brilliant, it is that Ruby was sloppy somehow today, he really is this season, on the other hand, I'm glad Action won, somehow
On December 13 2010 21:35 KTF_CloaK wrote: GG!!!!!
this is looking a lot like the old kt!!!!!!!! brilliant play by action, poking everywhere, massive drops, swarms and stuff
wow im happy now :D
hah, fannning like hell, Action's play way miles away from brilliant, it is that Ruby was sloppy somehow today, he really is this season, on the other hand, I'm glad Action won, somehow
Yeah, he flew a bunch of mutas right over a crowd of goliaths, then turrets in the middle of the game lucky for him goliath dps vs mutas is pretty crap his split vs irradiate was excellent though
gateway first for both players, m18m's a tad earlier gasses for both players
Actually we can pretty much expect HoeJJa from KT because Icarus is so zerg fucking favored. And, if ace wins this game while saving yellow and much, ace can actually win this game nvm, ace can't win against KT even if the game goes to ace match.
On December 13 2010 22:07 moktira wrote: Disappointing, so now Much will have to take out Flash, ggaemo will take Violet or soemone and then defeat Flash in the ace match....
On December 13 2010 22:07 moktira wrote: Disappointing, so now Much will have to take out Flash, ggaemo will take Violet or soemone and then defeat Flash in the ace match....
On December 13 2010 22:07 moktira wrote: Disappointing, so now Much will have to take out Flash, ggaemo will take Violet or soemone and then defeat Flash in the ace match....
On December 13 2010 22:07 moktira wrote: Disappointing, so now Much will have to take out Flash, ggaemo will take Violet or soemone and then defeat Flash in the ace match....
KINGDOM: "flash SEEMS to be slumping, but that's only because he's in god mode. he still is. but he's in a 2-game losing streak. enough to make you ask, "Dear God, is anything the matter?"
Modesty beat Fantasy in similar positions the other day, Flash will probably win but this might be a hard match for him. On the other hand, he'll probably just do some timing attack and rape ggaemo before mutas or something.
mutas head into flash's main - take a shot at the ebay and backs off
flies over a lonely rine but doesn't shoot
poor micro but finds a sorta blind spot at the top left of the nat and picks off a few scvs, taking hits from 2 turrets loses more mutas to mnm rushes in with a few lings to pick off a few rines, backs off
mutas fly over mnm for a second, on lost for nothing and lots of damage to others too
drone hugging a hydra's ass as it heads to ggaemo's 3rd one lurker egg forms on the ramp, the other hydra was sniped flash doesn't attack the egg? now he does
gagemo with really poor muta micro loses 2 for nothing
flash scans as the lurker finishes and burrows, kills another 2 mutas now attacking the empty hatch at 2.5
ggaemo gives up on in and moves towards flash's nat with muta/lurker instead but flash has another army of marines on the way
defiler mound starts - drone heading towards 7.5 drone hidden at 2.5 send down, flash's mnm still holding the place, it dies still one drone hidden there
2 tank/1 vessel with a lot of mnm moving out for flash - taking shots and picks off an unburrowed lurker ggaemo trying to move forwards with his lurkerling, loses all his lings and 2 lurkers
flash moving to threaten (or crush ) gagemo's nat tanks siege up to pound the sunkens and lurkers
ggaemo adding a lot of lings - probably all he can afford defiler is there but no sonsume?
tank almost sniped by lings when it moves in front of the army but d-matrix saves it
consume finishes - swarm on top of a lurker or two ggaemo loses 1.5 lurkers for nothing moving around unburrowed and flash crushes the other 2.5 easily after they burrow once he becomes aware of them
On December 13 2010 22:36 J1.au wrote: Battlecruisers shouldn't be totally unexpected in TvZ these days. Quite a few Terrans seem to be using them now. With mixed success I should add.
They're almost always great. I still think they are very underused in TvZ.
Where's YellOw now? For some time without team, then returns to KT? He's the living symbol of Starcraft now I think I'd like to see him return back to power, I know he can! He only need to feel himself a real fighter, not a "old veteran" ^_^
I wonder what a player like him needs to become as good as modern players? APM? but i thought he had the APM like 300-350, just as the other players have... Maybe Flash could inspire him to deeper understand the modern play, for almost no one does understand it as deep as Flash does. I seriously have many hopes in Flash + YellOw collaboration is this team (oh wait wat? I just said I hope KT would do better? X_X)
This is the epiphany of what I want to see from KT - players (other than Flash and and enough to take it to the ace match/win) winning and even the occasional appearance by Reach.
Even though this was against ACE, ACE has been pretty damn good this year so I'll take this win.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/s8cQj.png)
GoRush < Benzene > 
Reach
firebathero < Empire of the Sun > 
![[image loading]](http://cfs.flvs.daum.net/files/86/74/85/1/4425602/thumb.jpg)
Was pretty fun. 
