If you go to fomos, you can find the image of the SPL standings that doesn't have OZ and CJ bolded (which I used for the other match).
In fact, I'll just make the other one with estro and KT bolded for you and paste it in a post. But it might be a bit. For some reason, I can't connect to photobucket.
6:00 CC destroyed by Really's goliaths. Flash responds by killing SCV building 12 with two wraiths and dropping 1:00 with a ton of forces. Lol hey I just realized Flash has a lot of dropships.
On June 23 2010 13:36 darktreb wrote: Not Flash's best game but at this point I think he'll take it.
I don't know the only mistakes I saw him make all game were leaving his wraiths to die at the very end (which was kind of unimportant) and a couple of bad mine hits he could've avoided.
It's kind of uninspiring under the weight of Really's mistakes, but Flash played like Flash there.
VALKYRIE LOL Also man how many hydralisks have been lost to mines now. Four goliaths take out an overlord, but dropship is killed after three are loaded. Valkyries being gay.
On June 23 2010 13:59 JadeFist wrote: recommend poll options should be "no" and "fuck no"
that game was awesome. it wasnt close, but as far as one sided games go it was pretty fun to watch. btw isnt vulture drop into valk the fantasy build? so long since it was used i forget
On June 23 2010 13:59 JadeFist wrote: recommend poll options should be "no" and "fuck no"
that game was awesome. it wasnt close, but as far as one sided games go it was pretty fun to watch. btw isnt vulture drop into valk the fantasy build? so long since it was used i forget
It is incredibly hard to tell what is going on in this game, both players making vultures and just sorta running around, Flash took some map back but it's really unclear what's happening
Flash getting whooped by Really on Match Point? MBC must have gotten lazy and put on an old VOD. No way that's happening again. I mean Flash doesn't lose Ace matches, and he surely doesn't lose TvTs.
On June 23 2010 14:53 Neverhood wrote: lol flash is 0-5 in ace matchs, all of them being his best MU TVT....KT should be a bit worried now that playoffs are almost here
0-6 after fantasy beat his proxy SCV and then just vultured him to death.
On June 23 2010 14:50 nozaro33 wrote: omg... how is this happening?
Really OWNS this map and that includes TvTing vs Flash.
He gets to play a straight harass/macro game while playing safe, Really just slaughters under those conditions TvT and Flash didn't do anything to stop him from getting to that point.
Easy gg and estro takes it. Why would Flash run that kind of strat? Why would KT coach run Flash and have him play that kind of game? Flash is a macro monster but Really outclasses him at this specific style of play and map.
On June 23 2010 14:50 nozaro33 wrote: omg... how is this happening?
Really OWNS this map and that includes TvTing vs Flash.
He gets to play a straight harass/macro game while playing safe, Really just slaughters under those conditions TvT and Flash didn't do anything to stop him from getting to that point.
Easy gg and estro takes it. Why would Flash run that kind of strat? Why would KT coach run Flash and have him play that kind of game? Flash is a macro monster but Really outclasses him at this specific style of play and map.
Basically this.
KT coaches need to get slapped around a bit. Doing this is obviously bad for Flash's confidence, and they need to build up their backup players for playoffs. Sending Flash to get owned in every ace match TvT is just retarded.
On June 23 2010 14:53 Neverhood wrote: lol flash is 0-5 in ace matchs, all of them being his best MU TVT....KT should be a bit worried now that playoffs are almost here
0-6 after fantasy beat his proxy SCV and then just vultured him to death.
Haha i still remember that double cheese, but yeah 0-5 in this round alone...def not a good sign for KT.
Not having confidence in your Ace when the playoffs are here must be a shitty feeling.
On June 23 2010 14:52 danl9rm wrote: well, artosis called it
When?
I'm not gonna lie. I enjoy seeing flash lose. I'd say I enjoy seeing him lose most out of any progamer right now. I have a love/hate thing going on with flash(On the one hand, I hate that he's so good that he makes JD look like any other S class player. But then he IS so good, and it's just hard to NOT like him on a personal level). That said, I felt his pain today as he was writhing helplessly in his booth and muttering obscenities to himself.
On June 23 2010 14:56 Graham wrote: I really think KT should start switching it up with the ACE choices. I want to see Flash win but he's being demolished time and time again. :/
At least that way the guy who sits there and goes "lololololol only practiced TvT inc flash lolol" can get rolled by someone like Stats.
IMO Stats makes a lot of sense for an ace match choice. His PvT is his best matchup by a pretty wide margin, and most of these anti-Flash snipes have been TvTs (and it's only going to be more so when Flash is losing more of them).
On June 23 2010 14:58 J1.au wrote: I-I don't understand it...
Why is Flash losing every ace match TvT he plays?
IMO it's been his most vulnerable matchup for a while now, and knowing that KT is going to send Flash for ace lets other players basically practice specifically for his play. Flash losing confidence after a couple losses only compounds the problem.
I just hope this is all good warmup for the Playoffs I'm guessing even Flash can't believe this is happening. and btw, I think KT's coaches are sending Flash even though they KNOW the other team will try to snipe him so that he can end his ace match losing streak But after today I'm afraid it won't happen? wtf is happening? MSL ace match curse?
With Flash already having lost 4 or 5 matches in a row, I don't think it was a sure thing that he was going to be playing this game, so I'd bet that Really prepared vs P as well, even if not as much. And Really is a fairly obvious choice for ace too, so I'm sure Flash prepared mostly vs T.
On June 23 2010 15:00 stormguy85 wrote: Really is very strong against protoss too. I'm not sure Stats would have fared any better.
Stats should be able to take it if Really is sitting on zero TvP practice.
Perhaps on that final map, but I'm sure he practiced for his regular match incase he ran into Violet or Stats. And remember his 12-win vP streak he was on not that long ago? I'd put it at 50/50 against Stats for him.
On June 23 2010 15:01 nozaro33 wrote: I just hope this is all good warmup for the Playoffs I'm guessing even Flash can't believe this is happening. and btw, I think KT's coaches are sending Flash even though they KNOW the other team will try to snipe him so that he can end his ace match losing streak But after today I'm afraid it won't happen? wtf is happening? MSL ace match curse?
Yeah, I think at this point the vicious cycle can only be broken by Flash breaking out of this. KT has to keep sending him for every ace until he wins in preparation for the grand finals, especially with no individual leagues to prepare for (though MSL starts soon).
At this point given the disparity in his quality of play between ace and regular matches it's clearly mental to some degree....
On June 23 2010 14:52 danl9rm wrote: well, artosis called it
When?
He just said Really was a baller terran. I was giving him more credit than he deserved.
But, seriously, everyone was saying how invincible flash was, and even moreso his TvT, and yet here he stands, 0-5 TvT aces.
Other people are saying, "pft, not hard when all the other team has to do is train to snipe a T."
#1. That doesn't make him unstoppable, does it? #2. Isn't that what Jaedong has had to contend with... forever? (Ya, i know, sometimes Oz gets crafty and sends out Killer[another zerg] as ace!)
edit: ya, ya, i know flash is good. broodwar needs 2 super dominant players. it's good for business, and hype. but i'm still not ready to put flash dominantly above jd. just ain't gona happen.
On June 23 2010 15:02 Smu wrote: Seems like Flash can get dethroned only by other Terran. A circumstance to guarantee Terran dominance before SC2 hype starts killing BW t.t
In other news, JD is on a 14 game PL win streak and 20-4 in his last 24.
On June 23 2010 15:01 nozaro33 wrote: I just hope this is all good warmup for the Playoffs I'm guessing even Flash can't believe this is happening. and btw, I think KT's coaches are sending Flash even though they KNOW the other team will try to snipe him so that he can end his ace match losing streak But after today I'm afraid it won't happen? wtf is happening? MSL ace match curse?
Yeah, I think at this point the vicious cycle can only be broken by Flash breaking out of this. KT has to keep sending him for every ace until he wins in preparation for the grand finals, especially with no individual leagues to prepare for (though MSL starts soon).
At this point given the disparity in his quality of play between ace and regular matches it's clearly mental to some degree....
Yeah,... Why it's so painful for us fans is because of Flash's mental strength in the past... He could always overcome even worst situations (unlike Bisu) But this time I guess it really has got him stuck....
On June 23 2010 15:00 stormguy85 wrote: Really is very strong against protoss too. I'm not sure Stats would have fared any better.
Stats should be able to take it if Really is sitting on zero TvP practice.
Perhaps on that final map, but I'm sure he practiced for his regular match incase he ran into Violet or Stats. And remember his 12-win vP streak he was on not that long ago? I'd put it at 50/50 against Stats for him.
Which is better than the chances I gave Flash going into this ace match.
It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
On June 23 2010 15:04 lyhb wrote: people in the forums underate really... imo his tvt and tvp are godly(maybe even better than flash who is overated), if he can only improve on his tvz
Flash isn't overrated. If you think he is, you know nothing about Brood War.
On June 23 2010 14:52 danl9rm wrote: well, artosis called it
When did artosis predict flash losing 6 ace matches in a row? If youre just talkin about artosis hyping up seiya, then that's really not "calling it"
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
As crazy as this theory is, it actually makes some sense o.o
dammnnn 6 ace match loses in a row Kt coach must be like WTF. he's trying to help Flash snap his lose streak and get his confidence back, but he keeps losing.
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
I never thought of it this way. It's probably all true.
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
loool. I really hope so. Jaedong will be undefeatable in the years to come.
On June 23 2010 15:04 lyhb wrote: people in the forums underate really... imo his tvt and tvp are godly(maybe even better than flash who is overated), if he can only improve on his tvz
So godly that daezang beat him with one reaver.... Really doesn't even come close to the level of Flash. He's a good terran, and he might be getting better, but don't kid yourself. Right now you can't even compare Really with Flash.
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: He just said Really was a baller terran. I was giving him more credit than he deserved.
But, seriously, everyone was saying how invincible flash was, and even moreso his TvT, and yet here he stands, 0-5 TvT aces.
Actually, watching his games, his TvT has been his most vulnerable matchup for a little while now. "FvT" is several months old at this point.
It's worth noting that I think his vT dropoff might be in part due to the lack of serious contenders in individual leagues--leading to Flash slowing his advancement in the matchup. If you recall the "Enlightenment" article from a while back, most of the discussion was limited to TvP and TvZ (as the only Terran that Flash needed to deal with at the time was MVP--not exactly a tough match). While Flash's TvP has become a deadly mix of greedy and aggressive styles, I feel like his lack of meaningful TvT matches means that he hasn't had time to make his TvT as invincible as his TvP currently is.
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: Other people are saying, "pft, not hard when all the other team has to do is train to snipe a T."
#1. That doesn't make him unstoppable, does it? #2. Isn't that what Jaedong has had to contend with... forever? (Ya, i know, sometimes Oz gets crafty and sends out Killer[another zerg] as ace!)
edit: ya, ya, i know flash is good. broodwar needs 2 super dominant players. it's good for business, and hype. but i'm still not ready to put flash dominantly above jd. just ain't gona happen.
The Jaedong comparison (which an Oz fan just HAD to bring in) is interesting, because IIRC there was a period in the middle of last year where the exact same thing happened to Jaedong--people "figured out" JvZ. In the period of about a month, Jaedong dropped out of both GOM and MSL in ZvZ sets, and lost to Hyuk in PL finals.
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: He just said Really was a baller terran. I was giving him more credit than he deserved.
But, seriously, everyone was saying how invincible flash was, and even moreso his TvT, and yet here he stands, 0-5 TvT aces.
Actually, watching his games, his TvT has been his most vulnerable matchup for a little while now. "FvT" is several months old at this point.
It's worth noting that I think his vT dropoff might be in part due to the lack of serious contenders in individual leagues--leading to Flash slowing his advancement in the matchup. If you recall the "Enlightenment" article from a while back, most of the discussion was limited to TvP and TvZ (as the only Terran that Flash needed to deal with at the time was MVP--not exactly a tough match). While Flash's TvP has become a deadly mix of greedy and aggressive styles, I feel like his lack of meaningful TvT matches means that he hasn't had time to make his TvT as invincible as his TvP currently is.
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: Other people are saying, "pft, not hard when all the other team has to do is train to snipe a T."
#1. That doesn't make him unstoppable, does it? #2. Isn't that what Jaedong has had to contend with... forever? (Ya, i know, sometimes Oz gets crafty and sends out Killer[another zerg] as ace!)
edit: ya, ya, i know flash is good. broodwar needs 2 super dominant players. it's good for business, and hype. but i'm still not ready to put flash dominantly above jd. just ain't gona happen.
The Jaedong comparison (which an Oz fan just HAD to bring in) is interesting, because IIRC there was a period in the middle of last year where the exact same thing happened to Jaedong--people "figured out" JvZ. In the period of about a month, Jaedong dropped out of both GOM and MSL in ZvZ sets, and lost to Hyuk in PL finals.
On June 23 2010 15:04 lyhb wrote: people in the forums underate really... imo his tvt and tvp are godly(maybe even better than flash who is overated), if he can only improve on his tvz
So godly that daezang beat him with one reaver.... Really doesn't even come close to the level of Flash. He's a good terran, and he might be getting better, but don't kid yourself. Right now you can't even compare Really with Flash.
How is Flash overrated?
werent you watching the game? i have never seen flash get owned that bad... tvt at that
yes i do reckon that really's tvt and tvp are on par or better than flash. i just call it like it is, not a blind fanboy like you are apparently
maps as of late are just terran favoured. main reason being why he had that crazy win streaks...
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: He just said Really was a baller terran. I was giving him more credit than he deserved.
But, seriously, everyone was saying how invincible flash was, and even moreso his TvT, and yet here he stands, 0-5 TvT aces.
Actually, watching his games, his TvT has been his most vulnerable matchup for a little while now. "FvT" is several months old at this point.
It's worth noting that I think his vT dropoff might be in part due to the lack of serious contenders in individual leagues--leading to Flash slowing his advancement in the matchup. If you recall the "Enlightenment" article from a while back, most of the discussion was limited to TvP and TvZ (as the only Terran that Flash needed to deal with at the time was MVP--not exactly a tough match). While Flash's TvP has become a deadly mix of greedy and aggressive styles, I feel like his lack of meaningful TvT matches means that he hasn't had time to make his TvT as invincible as his TvP currently is.
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: Other people are saying, "pft, not hard when all the other team has to do is train to snipe a T."
#1. That doesn't make him unstoppable, does it? #2. Isn't that what Jaedong has had to contend with... forever? (Ya, i know, sometimes Oz gets crafty and sends out Killer[another zerg] as ace!)
edit: ya, ya, i know flash is good. broodwar needs 2 super dominant players. it's good for business, and hype. but i'm still not ready to put flash dominantly above jd. just ain't gona happen.
The Jaedong comparison (which an Oz fan just HAD to bring in) is interesting, because IIRC there was a period in the middle of last year where the exact same thing happened to Jaedong--people "figured out" JvZ. In the period of about a month, Jaedong dropped out of both GOM and MSL in ZvZ sets, and lost to Hyuk in PL finals.
Not trying to make an excuse for Jaedong, his ZvZ had dropped off quite a bit during that stretch, but you have to keep in mind his schedule was WAY worse than what Flash is going through right now. Losing to Calm came right after a humiliating PL finals performance that included a heartbreaking loss to Fantasy. There was a lot of emotional stress going on for him.
On June 23 2010 14:49 tedster wrote: Really with a commanding army advantage! Why is flash playing him in a macro game? That's a terrible idea :O
Just read what you said and fix it please.
What are you talking about? Flash regularly loses to Really in straight macro games. Really is a better straight macro TvTer than Flash, at least head to head on that map.
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: He just said Really was a baller terran. I was giving him more credit than he deserved.
But, seriously, everyone was saying how invincible flash was, and even moreso his TvT, and yet here he stands, 0-5 TvT aces.
Actually, watching his games, his TvT has been his most vulnerable matchup for a little while now. "FvT" is several months old at this point.
It's worth noting that I think his vT dropoff might be in part due to the lack of serious contenders in individual leagues--leading to Flash slowing his advancement in the matchup. If you recall the "Enlightenment" article from a while back, most of the discussion was limited to TvP and TvZ (as the only Terran that Flash needed to deal with at the time was MVP--not exactly a tough match). While Flash's TvP has become a deadly mix of greedy and aggressive styles, I feel like his lack of meaningful TvT matches means that he hasn't had time to make his TvT as invincible as his TvP currently is.
On June 23 2010 15:04 danl9rm wrote: Other people are saying, "pft, not hard when all the other team has to do is train to snipe a T."
#1. That doesn't make him unstoppable, does it? #2. Isn't that what Jaedong has had to contend with... forever? (Ya, i know, sometimes Oz gets crafty and sends out Killer[another zerg] as ace!)
edit: ya, ya, i know flash is good. broodwar needs 2 super dominant players. it's good for business, and hype. but i'm still not ready to put flash dominantly above jd. just ain't gona happen.
The Jaedong comparison (which an Oz fan just HAD to bring in) is interesting, because IIRC there was a period in the middle of last year where the exact same thing happened to Jaedong--people "figured out" JvZ. In the period of about a month, Jaedong dropped out of both GOM and MSL in ZvZ sets, and lost to Hyuk in PL finals.
Not trying to make an excuse for Jaedong, his ZvZ had dropped off quite a bit during that stretch, but you have to keep in mind his schedule was WAY worse than what Flash is going through right now. Losing to Calm came right after a humiliating PL finals performance that included a heartbreaking loss to Fantasy. There was a lot of emotional stress going on for him.
On top of that JvZ has long since come back since getting "figured out."
On June 23 2010 14:49 tedster wrote: Really with a commanding army advantage! Why is flash playing him in a macro game? That's a terrible idea :O
Just read what you said and fix it please.
What are you talking about? Flash regularly loses to Really in straight macro games. Really is a better straight macro TvTer than Flash, at least head to head on that map.
very true... and i love how the fanboys deny it
i have never seen flash get owned like that in tvt
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
Why are u so bitter? Winning a ZvZ is a lot more complicated than TvT no? and JvZ has been around since when?
All the mirrors are difficult. ZvZ is subject to more randomness than TvT is, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily more complicated.
And I know "JvZ" has been around forever. I'm not contending anything about JvZ The point is that being vulnerable in the mirror matchup when you haven't had to deal with it in individual leagues at all isn't a sign of a slump, especially since Jaedong went on to win the OSL and continue his domination after his minor ZvZ dropoff.
As to bitterness, I generally don't respond well to 2 line posts that have no real content.
On June 23 2010 15:23 Fr33t wrote: On top of that JvZ has long since come back since getting "figured out."
Which is exactly my point. A month of sub-par performance does not make someone down-and-out. Jaedong has proved this.
When was the last time KT didn't go to an Ace match? I didn't really think about it much, but I don't even remember the last time I saw them 3-1 anybody. Or get 1-3'd.
On June 23 2010 15:22 InTheFade wrote: Wait, I count six consecutive ace losses, not five? Where am I messing up? Snow, Ruby, Hiya, SkyHigh, Baby, and Really. That's six, yes?...
On June 23 2010 15:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote: When was the last time KT didn't go to an Ace match? I didn't really think about it much, but I don't even remember the last time I saw them 3-1 anybody. Or get 1-3'd.
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
Why are u so bitter? Winning a ZvZ is a lot more complicated than TvT no? and JvZ has been around since when?
All the mirrors are difficult. ZvZ is subject to more randomness than TvT is, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily more complicated.
And I know "JvZ" has been around forever. I'm not contending anything about JvZ The point is that being vulnerable in the mirror matchup when you haven't had to deal with it in individual leagues at all isn't a sign of a slump, especially since Jaedong went on to win the OSL and continue his domination after his minor ZvZ dropoff.
As to bitterness, I generally don't respond well to 2 line posts that have no real content.
On June 23 2010 15:23 Fr33t wrote: On top of that JvZ has long since come back since getting "figured out."
Which is exactly my point.
Ah, I remember the good ol' days when coaches wouldn't even allow their zergs to play the dong. I hope they don't wizen up again
The only point I was trying to make originally was that getting to the top is hard, but staying on top is almost impossible. Flash fans were quick to note his success, but the longevity isn't there, yet. Jaedong has been around, and has proven himself time and again.
On June 23 2010 15:07 n.DieJokes wrote: It's the beating Jaedong in a Bo5 curse! Hardly documented because of its rarity it's one of if not the most potent curse in pro-gaming. I mean just look at poor Rock, he used to have potential, now he can't even get a game on ace. And ForGG, well he lost every game for a year and half and got kicked off his team... a mild case. And poor Calm... it breaks my hear to see him, his mind split in two by acute schizophrenia
Remember when Leta beat Flash in Winner's League and how it was such a big deal at the time? Leta pretty much earned a spot in the PR just for that one win.
On June 23 2010 15:22 InTheFade wrote: Wait, I count six consecutive ace losses, not five? Where am I messing up? Snow, Ruby, Hiya, SkyHigh, Baby, and Really. That's six, yes?...
Yeah, that is correct. And if you want to go even further, Flash is 1-7 in his last 8 ace games.
On June 23 2010 15:22 InTheFade wrote: Wait, I count six consecutive ace losses, not five? Where am I messing up? Snow, Ruby, Hiya, SkyHigh, Baby, and Really. That's six, yes?...
On June 23 2010 15:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote: When was the last time KT didn't go to an Ace match? I didn't really think about it much, but I don't even remember the last time I saw them 3-1 anybody. Or get 1-3'd.
They 3-0ed STX.
Unfortunately, beating STX doesn't count for much these days
Whoever is spiking Flash's pocari sweat prior to ace matches needs to lay off.
On June 23 2010 15:04 lyhb wrote: people in the forums underate really... imo his tvt and tvp are godly(maybe even better than flash who is overated), if he can only improve on his tvz
So godly that daezang beat him with one reaver.... Really doesn't even come close to the level of Flash. He's a good terran, and he might be getting better, but don't kid yourself. Right now you can't even compare Really with Flash.
How is Flash overrated?
werent you watching the game? i have never seen flash get owned that bad... tvt at that
yes i do reckon that really's tvt and tvp are on par or better than flash. i just call it like it is, not a blind fanboy like you are apparently
maps as of late are just terran favoured. main reason being why he had that crazy win streaks..
Keep sending Flash and he'll get out of his funk sooner or later. Yes, he is getting sniped, but that's also giving him opportunities to make changes.
There's an over-reaction here. 0-6 in ace is a pretty big indicator, but it's not totally damning. Good players can go on bad streaks, and Flash is no exception and only looks bad because of how well he has played.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
On June 23 2010 14:49 tedster wrote: Really with a commanding army advantage! Why is flash playing him in a macro game? That's a terrible idea :O
Just read what you said and fix it please.
What are you talking about? Flash regularly loses to Really in straight macro games. Really is a better straight macro TvTer than Flash, at least head to head on that map.
Regularly? Really has now beaten flash... twice. He's 1-1 vs Flash in the last 3 hours, don't get crazy
Flash antifans out in full force today =\ I've missed your posts, vaMpYr :D
On June 23 2010 15:29 danl9rm wrote: Ah, I remember the good ol' days when coaches wouldn't even allow their zergs to play the dong. I hope they don't wizen up again
The only point I was trying to make originally was that getting to the top is hard, but staying on top is almost impossible. Flash fans were quick to note his success, but the longevity isn't there, yet. Jaedong has been around, and has proven himself time and again.
That's all I was sayin.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think the haters are being just as quick to note Flash's failures as the fanboys are to note his successes (this was true with Jaedong as well).
On June 23 2010 15:32 vaMpYr wrote: ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
I never said that. Such a comparison is impossible. The two matchups don't even share a race.
I pointed out a comparison--that Flash's TvT getting "figured out" at this stage is comparable to Jaedong's getting "figured out" in the middle of last year. In both cases it's too early to say that they have lost their skill at the matchup. One month of ace matches just isn't a large enough sample size. I said *nothing* about the relative levels of their dominance. Such a statement isn't relevant to the analogy.
On June 23 2010 15:32 vaMpYr wrote: let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
I question if you've played TvT, but again, this has nothing to do with what I was talking about at all.
On June 23 2010 15:32 vaMpYr wrote: 80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
The "craps like this" are things I haven't said. They're things your fanboyism has deluded you into thinking I said.
P.s. Lyhb, you know what I love about your posts? How your opinion is obviously not that of the majority and highly subjective, yet in every freakin post you say everyone who disagrees is a blind fanboy (whereas youre obviously just being as objective as can be!!)
On June 23 2010 15:04 lyhb wrote: people in the forums underate really... imo his tvt and tvp are godly(maybe even better than flash who is overated), if he can only improve on his tvz
So godly that daezang beat him with one reaver.... Really doesn't even come close to the level of Flash. He's a good terran, and he might be getting better, but don't kid yourself. Right now you can't even compare Really with Flash.
How is Flash overrated?
i have seen people claim he is undeniably bonjwa and some say he is better than all the old bonjwas(i assume these people are kidding but with the internet you never know) Best current terran->undeniable Best player ever to play the game-> overrating him a little, for the moment anyways.
On June 23 2010 15:29 danl9rm wrote: Ah, I remember the good ol' days when coaches wouldn't even allow their zergs to play the dong. I hope they don't wizen up again
The only point I was trying to make originally was that getting to the top is hard, but staying on top is almost impossible. Flash fans were quick to note his success, but the longevity isn't there, yet. Jaedong has been around, and has proven himself time and again.
That's all I was sayin.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think the haters are being just as quick to note Flash's failures as the fanboys are to note his successes (this was true with Jaedong as well).
I usually read these boards and hope that Jaedong and Flash don't read the Korean boards that look similar to ours, expecting them to play perfectly every single day, match, even. They really do have to steel their minds against this stuff. Some players never come off a slump, and their fickle fans don't lessen the pain.
It's OK when they lose. When else are they going to reinvent their strategies? While they're winning? Nah... (i.e. I think it would have been silly for flash to change his TvT style when he was on that 20+ win streak)
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
Exactly. Hyuk is good at zvz
But what about being best at it? For example, take Flash v Midas. He can just set up a bunker and hold off aggression even when he had no marines initially. If in ZvZ, your opponent gets lings into your base before you start making any, you're dead. No chance for a comeback. There's a way bigger defender's advantage in TvT than ZvZ, allowing the better player, the one with more skill, to win in the end.
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
What he means is that ZvZ is harder to be dominating at. Because of it's low econ its more subtle in nature. He's not saying its HARDER or its more Complex.
ZvZ is more like a balancing act and very easy to drop. It's very low econ and losing 2 units can cost you the game. So 80% is very significant...
TvT and PvP are generally longer, more complex, and very tedious (especially TvT)... and therefor a big skill gap is going to help you more and more. You might even say there is more room for error because those 2 SVC's don't matter as much as those 2 drones.
It's not that his argument is 100% gold but its certainly valid... people seem to want to either be "YES thats correct" or "NO you're totally wrong". I would agree that ZvZ is harder to maintain a very high win rate at than TvT, given equal skill of players.
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
Exactly. Hyuk is good at zvz
But what about being best at it? For example, take Flash v Midas. He can just set up a bunker and hold off aggression even when he had no marines initially. If in ZvZ, your opponent gets lings into your base before you start making any, you're dead. No chance for a comeback. There's a way bigger defender's advantage in TvT than ZvZ, allowing the better player, the one with more skill, to win in the end.
On June 23 2010 16:03 cursor wrote: What he means is that ZvZ is harder to be dominating at. Because of it's low econ its more subtle in nature. He's not saying its HARDER or its more Complex.
ZvZ is more like a balancing act and very easy to drop. It's very low econ and losing 2 units can cost you the game. So 80% is very significant...
TvT and PvP are generally longer, more complex, and very tedious (especially TvT)... and therefor a big skill gap is going to help you more and more. You might even say there is more room for error because those 2 SVC's don't matter as much as those 2 drones.
It's not that his argument is 100% gold but its certainly valid... people seem to want to either be "YES thats correct" or "NO you're totally wrong". I would agree that ZvZ is harder to maintain a very high win rate at than TvT, given equal skill of players.
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
Exactly. Hyuk is good at zvz
He actually isn't. 47% and 3-7 in last 10.
Im not being serious. Still, zvz is Blizzards biggest failure with BW
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
You're missing the point. ZvZ is harder in the sense that it's difficult to win consistently because games can be decided in the matter of a few seconds. One poorly microed ling battle and it can be gg. One poorly executed muta control vs. scourge and it can be gg. Then there's also the luck factor that comes from build orders. If one player goes 4 pool or 9 pool against an opponent going 12 hatch, he is almost guaranteed a win most of the time if he sent his lings in the right direction. Due to all these factors, it's not uncommon for even mediocre/bad zergs to beat good zergs. In the mirror matchups, it's more "easy" for good players to consistently beat weaker players because even if they make a few small mistakes, they can still overcome the opponent in the long run through their superior mechanics and control.
EDIT: It seems like a bunch of people have already explained this point, so this post is a bit redundant.
ZvZ and PvP are quite different from the other matchups, to my eye - defender's advantage is minimal --> aggressive micro-oriented play. In no other matchup is taking your natural a risky play. That's pretty damn unforgiving, and gives you drastically less room to prove your superiority over the other player.
The other matchups have much greater defender's advantage, and therefore afford the stronger player more opportunities to make a comeback --> easier for a stronger player to win over a lesser player.
Yeah I agree, ZvZ and PvP have the least defender's advantage. Good PvP players are always great to watch. Bisu's and Stork's used to be so eye boggling. :| Hope they come back soonish.
On June 23 2010 15:05 Antiochus wrote: I wonder what the record is for most consecutive ace match losses.
beautiful =)
bye bye flash . see you in hell .
Says the STX fan. While both teams are in free-fall, at least KT can GET to ace matches.
On June 23 2010 15:15 vaMpYr wrote: dont compare JvZ and gagFvT please .
JvZ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gagFvT from far and easy .
So you respond to a comparison with a fanboyism. Ok.
Come back when you feel like actually responding to the point of my post.
ok no problem .
im really curious how you can possibly argue that flash'stvt is better than jaedong's zvz .
let's not forget that zvz is maybe the hardest match up in terms of skills and multitasking , its also maybe the hardest match up in terms of psychology . and the lucky things ? ( bo and micro )
tvt is strategic and macro , so being the best at it is easier . the competition is really harder in zvz .
80% in one of the hardest match up is maybe the crasiest record in SC history .
im not here to argue that jaedong is a better player than flash , but i cant let you saying craps like this .
i will never say something like " jaedong's macro > flash's macro " . it would be dumb . personaly im not far of thinking of it . but to maintain it would be really stupid from me .
if you think flash's tvt is better , keep it for you please .
Please don't be an ass and try to argue that ZvZ is more complex than the other mirrors. Please.
i didnt said zvz is more complex , i said being the best at it is harder . its different .
Yeah i really dont think its harder, TvT and even PvP require soooo much more than ZvZ in soo many different aspects
Exactly. Hyuk is good at zvz
He actually isn't. 47% and 3-7 in last 10.
Im not being serious. Still, zvz is Blizzards biggest failure with BW
zvz failure? you obviously have bad taste or just dont like ther race in general
On June 23 2010 16:33 pieisamazing wrote: I don't get it, flash will get eliminated in his first round by a mediocre terran.
Im not the biggest Flash fan, but i highly doubt that he;ll be eliminated in rd 1.
I think its a confidence issue at this point rather than a skill issue. I mean he dominated Really in the first game they played, and then just looked nervous in the ace.
I don't think he will either, I was just feeding the troll.
Who knows, though. He can't seem to bring it when it counts as of late, so maybe it's not too wild an idea that he gets snuffed out early by someone who he should have beaten.
Well to be honest, Flash has always been able to fall back on his macro when he gets at a disadvantage. However, for whatever reason, when he gets at a disadvantage he seems to struggle much more.
So yah its not that far out to think he'll lose early, but I mean, he's still the number one ranked player in Kespa, and that says alot.
They have to keep sending Flash for ace though. You can't go into a playoffs expecting to win with a bum ace. It didn't work for Oz and it won't work for KT.
Haters gonna hate kt still no.1, flash and kt can lose 3-0 for the rest of the games for all i care as long as they keep no.1, and seeing stx are bad they will lose two more games lyhb how are you not banned?
Oh and those who think really is so totally awesome and on par with flash have a look at flashs stats and reallys stats and tell me these players are on par Regardless of how good he is offline and that he just beat flash stats show really is fucking bad compared to flash
On June 23 2010 18:34 Vasoline73 wrote: The thing that I like about KT's recent matches is Stats ForGG and Violet stepping up. Even Tempest.
A true KT fan feels good about the recent matches and knows Flash will pick it up eventually. Honestly doesn't feel like much to worry about.
With this said, I'd like to see the coach put some faith in these players and maybe send one to ace sometime. Maybe stats, since the opponents will be very ready for a TvT.
On June 23 2010 18:25 Scaramanga wrote: Oh and those who think really is so totally awesome and on par with flash have a look at flashs stats and reallys stats and tell me these players are on par Regardless of how good he is offline and that he just beat flash stats show really is fucking bad compared to flash
Everyone knows Flash has been one of the better players of the last little while. The fact is that Really won tonight. He's amazing on that map. If Flash is half as good as people expect him to be, then he'll do something to update his play style.
On June 23 2010 18:34 Vasoline73 wrote: The thing that I like about KT's recent matches is Stats ForGG and Violet stepping up. Even Tempest.
Yeah, if anything the team as a whole has been doing better recently. But like people have been saying, it's time to put someone else in the ace match now and then.
Yeah the KT coach has been kind of stubborn, but I think some of the blame has to be put on Flash if we're going to go that route. I'm sure he really wants to break his losing streak at this point and is asking to be sent out.
If KT didn't have a lock for 1st place I would say KT should just tell Flash no and play Stats but I think it's ok to let Flash struggle a bit before playoffs. Will probably increase his drive as opposed to burning him out seeing as there is no individuals for awhile (as he is seeded)
You could see on his face at the end of the match he's aware of the situation. I think, like someone earlier said, that pretty much proves it's mental. He's psyching himself out at the start of these matches and it's being reflected in his play. He's "on tilt" basically. To borrow another game analogy, it's like in Basketball when a shooter goes cold. Yes, even legendary shooters will have prolonged shooting droughts in games, the trick isn't to avoid them but to feed them even more. Good shooters will make one eventually and that can spark the confidence to go on a sick run. Flash will bounce back, but they need to trust him until he breaks through. In my humble opinion.
On June 23 2010 18:25 Scaramanga wrote: Oh and those who think really is so totally awesome and on par with flash have a look at flashs stats and reallys stats and tell me these players are on par Regardless of how good he is offline and that he just beat flash stats show really is fucking bad compared to flash
Everyone knows Flash has been one of the better players of the last little while. The fact is that Really won tonight. He's amazing on that map. If Flash is half as good as people expect him to be, then he'll do something to update his play style.
On June 23 2010 18:34 Vasoline73 wrote: The thing that I like about KT's recent matches is Stats ForGG and Violet stepping up. Even Tempest.
Yeah, if anything the team as a whole has been doing better recently. But like people have been saying, it's time to put someone else in the ace match now and then.
-__________________________________________________- did you read what i wrote?
On June 23 2010 18:25 Scaramanga wrote: Oh and those who think really is so totally awesome and on par with flash have a look at flashs stats and reallys stats and tell me these players are on par Regardless of how good he is offline and that he just beat flash stats show really is fucking bad compared to flash
Everyone knows Flash has been one of the better players of the last little while. The fact is that Really won tonight. He's amazing on that map. If Flash is half as good as people expect him to be, then he'll do something to update his play style.
On June 23 2010 18:34 Vasoline73 wrote: The thing that I like about KT's recent matches is Stats ForGG and Violet stepping up. Even Tempest.
Yeah, if anything the team as a whole has been doing better recently. But like people have been saying, it's time to put someone else in the ace match now and then.
-__________________________________________________- did you read what i wrote?
I actually began my post with "did you really need to post this" but I removed it because I wanted to be charitable.
Set 5 was actually pretty predictable. I'm not sure who told KT's coach that Seiya can lose on Match Point but they were lying. Also Flash seems to lose Match Point a fair bit. And of course there's the whole ace match problem Flash is dealing with.
On June 24 2010 03:57 MrMotionPicture wrote: Flash isn't trying. He was laughing after he lost.
He's trying, but I think he's just as confused as everyone else. He seems to blow people up in the non-ace then gets rolled in the ace. It's almost like people are holding back against him but have the secret build ready for ace.
After the match I think he was genuinely confused at the difference in the way his two games against Really went.
No need for KT coach bashing here. While I'm also a little worried seeing Flash struggle for ace match, KT is locked in for WL anyways, and better to let Flash work out problems now--you sure as hell don't want the same thing happening in WL.
Yeah in contrast to what most people think: "stop sending out Flash for Aces" - KT needs to keep sending Flash till he makes some wins so that he can overcome his mentality issue. Otherwise it will be a very rough Grand finals for KT.
Flash has become anti-clutch in Ace matches recently.
I attribute a lot of this to the fact that KT is as predicatable as the sun rising everyday since Flash (or forgg who is a worse flash) is the only person they ever send.
KT REALLY needs to send a Toss or Zerg in an ace match to mix things up.
On June 24 2010 10:53 On_Slaught wrote: Flash has become anti-clutch in Ace matches recently.
I attribute a lot of this to the fact that KT is as predicatable as the sun rising everyday since Flash (or forgg who is a worse flash) is the only person they ever send.
KT REALLY needs to send a Toss or Zerg in an ace match to mix things up.
Yeah, ForGG is like the worst possible choice for an ace. But I think KT only did that once or twice so it's not too bad. That said, I think Stats could be a pretty legitimate ace player to mix in and even Tempest has shown a fair bit of potential.
On June 25 2010 06:51 DemiSe wrote: Set 5 was epic. Everyone should watch it!
Don't think so. It was a good old fashioned ass-whupping. Nothing special about it. In fact, what surprised me was how easily Flash got owned. That too at his strongest matchup.
On June 26 2010 13:28 [X]Ken_D wrote: People might be underestimating Really's TvT. This is the same guy that ended Flash's huge TvT winning streak not too long ago!
He's definitely the worse player, and he is 2-4 against Flash now. Honestly, he shouldn't have won if Flash didn't fail, and I thought he would end his losing streak today.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/r5proleaguebanner.jpg)
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vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/flamewheel/Team_Icons/eSTRO.png){kind=icon}
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not pocari sweat anymore 
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