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Predictions:+ Show Spoiler +Near impossible to predict, but here goes:  Violet < ShuttleNeither team wants to send out a Zerg on this map, and KT will unlikely send  Flash first, so they send a Protoss: Violet, maybe Stats. STX sends either Kal or Shuttle, but anticipate Violet or Stats from KT so they send their 78% winrate PvP beast Shuttle to take them out. fOrGG > SoOKT will send out Flash on Judgment Day, so STX saves Kal for that(see it's map statistics). STX will want to send either another Protoss or  Calm. Since PvX statistics aren't very good on Roadrunner, they will send a Protoss and save Calm for the Roadrunner. SoO probably comes out, but fOrGG has been trampling people left and right lately, so he takes this pretty easily. Flash < KalKT sends Flash out for Judgment Day and STX sends Kal. Flash is too greedy and Kal macros like a king, eventually breaking him and getting revenge from their last encounter of Fighting Spirit. 815 < Calm815 and Calm are both good ZvZ, but 815 breaks under the pressure and slips. I wouldn't be surprised if 815 did win though, taking it to ace. If he does STX won't send Kal because the PvT winrate on Grand Line is horrid, and will instead send Calm, who, focusing harder than ever after losing the previous game, takes a game off Flash. KT Rolster 1-3 STX SouL
How to watch:
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I don't see someone other than Flash getting a win in this one for KT.
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Flash will play a free on judgment day.
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Expecting Flash and ForGG to come through for KT today
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if anyone other then flash don't take a set for KT
this is not going anywhere lol.
stx most likely 3-1 kt
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GOGOGOGO FLASH
I actually think he might be a liability, everyone on his team loses confidence from losing so much
nal_ra's oldboy "you forget how to win"
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lol those predictions took me like 30-40 mins to think of and type of. nice to see people were already agreeing with me ^_^
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One nitpick about the predictions: Lux can't come out
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If Forgg can run into Calm, it might get to ace. Other than that, I doubt KT will get to the ace match.
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Last I heard Luxury was moved to the B-Team, so it's pretty unlikely if not impossible that we'll see him play tonight.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
We won't be seeing Lux :/
I wish I could stay up for these games.
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Oooo k. I'll just change it to 815 then 
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STX was one of the few teams to stay completely clean in the scandal.
e: actually by.hero is suspected but he sucks anyways, no suspicion on the kal/hwasin/calm trio
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C'mon KT!!! I can't watch it live 
gogogogo Flash, Forgg, and Violet!!
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I like your predictions because they would score me ridiculous fpl points.
although... 815>calm and then kal>somebody would be nice :D
Make it happen, starcraft gods
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stx to win this 3-1.unless Forgg does something crazy.
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kt will take this, calm is playing like balls
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Stx isn't going to send out that many toss me thinks, but either way I doubt KT has a chance tonight.
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Canada5565 Posts
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July got removed from the STX april roster as well
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Canada5565 Posts
On April 13 2010 16:40 Grobyc wrote:July got removed from the STX april roster as well
aw you serious? shucks.
edit: I see it now
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The current KT rolster is like the old Jaedong OZ, except KT Flash's Flash is stronger than Jaedong, and the rest of KT are stronger than the rest of OZ.
Same strategy that got Jaedong OZ to the proleague final can be applied here.
Flash wins a game, someone else wins a game, Flash wins ace.
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So because KT lost one match 3-1 and didn't look that strong as a team in the last half of R3 they are gonna lose 3-1 here?
Doubt it. KT is winning this match 
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On April 13 2010 17:00 phaleos wrote:The current KT rolster is like the old Jaedong OZ, except KT Flash's Flash is stronger than Jaedong, and the rest of KT are stronger than the rest of OZ. Same strategy that got Jaedong OZ to the proleague final can be applied here. Flash wins a game, someone else wins a game, Flash wins ace.
Flash has always carried his team. The current KT rolster is like the old KT MagicNs.
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You predicted ForGG to beat Soo, but he's a coach now, isn't he?
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Russian Federation376 Posts
Grobyc, your predictions are very good, but it's so touching to see how people want flash to lose and fail every time 
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They are beginning anyone streaming?
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i am hoping to see some exciting games considering the two teams that are playing
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Canada5565 Posts
LOL Nalra looks dead tired today, must have had a 12 hour gaming session
edit: Roffflesss <3
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Flash out first
LOL OP GOT IT RIGHT, JUST IN WRONG SLOT
Flash vs kal
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
OMG OMG OMG FLASH VS KAL WTF
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Kal, huh?
Edit:
This is gonna be awesome.
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Flash vs Kal oh snap. Dam this is not what I wanted lol.
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why FlaSh first ? I prefer third game ...
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Flash vs. Kal first it appears! Preview of their upcoming OSL match.
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Nice first match: Flash vs Kal!
This should be good
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this is good for KT, Flash can snipe one of STX best players, of course it may go the way around, but KT's only trump is Flash anyway
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this is gonna be gooddddd
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Canada5565 Posts
On April 13 2010 18:05 Mystlord wrote:
OMG OMG OMG FLASH VS KAL WTF
shiiit, they're both on my FPL why do they have to play each other?!
will be a great game
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Man I'm bummed about this format. Sucks that they did it because of the gambling sites, but I know there's going to be people asleep who would have normally stayed up to watch Flash v Kal if they knew it was coming.
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Lets go Flash! (or Kal, though tbh i want kt to take this)
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On April 13 2010 17:00 phaleos wrote:The current KT rolster is like the old Jaedong OZ, except KT Flash's Flash is stronger than Jaedong, and the rest of KT are stronger than the rest of OZ. Same strategy that got Jaedong OZ to the proleague final can be applied here. Flash wins a game, someone else wins a game, Flash wins ace.
Right now Jaedong OZ sucks but when they were raping the rest of them performed somewhat good or at lest average. Much like the rest of KT Flash right now.
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Kal going for gas steal maybe?
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gas steal
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Kal goes for a gas steal, Flash tries to block but Kal barely gets it off.
Wonder if Flash will just go 1rax CC, like he did in the final two games of the proleague winner's finals.
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nvm lol, Flash didnt go 1 rax CC
Kal goes 1 gate nex tho
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal with the gas steal so I'm expecting good things...
AH KAL MISSES THE 2ND GAS STEAL!
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a lot of scvs are dealing with that assimilator
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Another gas steal attempt after Flash's scvs take out the first, no go.
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Tries to re-gas steal but too quick!
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
:O Kal planting down a Nex instead. Flash going to scout.
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Flash attacks down the geyser with FIVE scvs, instantly caps it as soon as it goes down. Kal tried to steal a 2nd time, but didn't quite get it off.
Kal going for 1gate Nexus without gas or core. Interesting opening.
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Reverse match order ace match first, oh goodie.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Flash with non-stop rine production and he's moving out. Here we go!~
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Well never mind. Mass rine production into FE... A timing push most likely incoming.
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4 marines moving out for Flash, not sure if this is advisable, since kal should have goons out very very soon, but flash isnt attacking, just kind of patrolling those 5, now 6 marines outside of his choke.
his expo is pretty far behind Kal's
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Engineering Bay and first tank out for Flash already.... A vult as well and mines were researched first.
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mines done for flash. planting a few in a defnsive position.
Flash's vulture finds a scouting probe at 9 oclock and takes him out.
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Vultures out and scouting around for Flash. Fast citadel going up for Kal.
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Flash with EIGHT marines now, getting turrets cause i guess he thinks Kal is going for a fast DT/Reaver. Kal instead went for obs, and is just now adding Citadel
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal going 2 base arbs. Flash has a timing window.... But those narrow bridges will be troublesome.
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Kal adds 2 gateways and a stargate. loses a pylon to vults =/
2 base arbs looks like
Flash already has third CC made, just needs to float it over
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Flash choosing to take a fast third instead of a full on timing push. Kal getting his third.
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Baa?21244 Posts
STX is gonna own this shit...
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Flash's 3rd CC is already finished. Kal still on 2 bases.
Flash moving out a little with marine/tank/vult, to secure his 3rd base. Looks like he just wants to setup in a good position to turtle.
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Kal with obs out, 4 gates.
Flash's vultures manage to take down a pylon at 6 before retreating.
Flash gets a 3rd CC in his main, though its scouted by an obs. Kal meanwhile getting ready to build a nexus at 3 oclock.
Kal's goons moving into flash's territory now, flash having to pull back a few tanks to defend.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal being rather aggressive with his early goons. Takes out quite a few vults while losing no goons I think? Loses an obs though.
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Ah, kal double expos at 3
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Kal double expanding to catch up to Flash, Flash starts his fourth tho as well
First arb coming out soon
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Wow Flash starting his 4th CC very fast. Kal looks like he's adding on a 3rd and 4th now.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
WOW Flash taking a FOURTH already! Apparently he thinks that he can hold that side of the map easily.
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Sigh. What with the scandals and everything I just can never watch a match the same ever again.
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Flash getting another fast expo at 9 oclock as well. He has his area secure with lots of tanks and mines. Kal's forces are also turtling his zone.
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kal will lose trying to keep up macro with flash, he will start to see a 6th CC and shit his pants.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal going to try to take his fifth at top right... DENIED BY A VULT!
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Kal tries to setup his 5th at top right, but Flash's vulture snipes the probe and delays the expansion significantly.
Flash doing a really good job of using his supply depots to create semi-walls across the map, allowing him to expand earlier and with fewer forces (along with turrets to block obs and lots of mines).
Kal now setting up his 5th base at 6:00
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal essentially massing Zealots now....
Flash is taking control of the left side of the map and it doesn't seem like there's anything that Kal can do unless there's a path that I'm not aware f....
BUT 3 ARBS FOR KAL !!!
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Wait... HALLUCINATION!!!!!
RECALL INTO FLASH'S FOURTH!!
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nice recall by kal, they are taking down this CC
CC down!
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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Kal gets off a recall at 3 using hallucinated arbiters to draw turret fire!
Base down
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horribly slow reaction from Flash, loses an entire base of SCV's +the CC
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mass vultures > goons apparently. but flash is now out for blood. assaults the newly made expo at 1 oclock but has to back off due to too many forces and an arb.
meanwhile flash cleans up 9 oclock of the remaining forces.
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EMP MISSES, STASIS ON 3 TANKS, HUGE LINE OF ZEALS FOR KAL
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holy crap, kal is coming in with mass zealots and goons, nice stasis. flash's nat might break soon.
flash with a good dmatrix on a tank, stops kal's advance, kal backs off.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Flash attempts to get top left with Vults... Gets the probe, but the Nex is already building. No luck for Flash... Loses most of the vults...
Kal pushing into Flash's natural area!!!
OMG EMP MISSED!
STASIS GOES OFF!!!
Ahhh Zealots melt and Flash's reinforcements come in. Kal is forced back, but he's delaying Flash admirably.
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Horrible move by Kal, lost a shitton of units just charging flash his wall without doing much damage
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Canada5565 Posts
Kal shouldn't have run in right after that EMP
Got too anxious
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Flash pushing to 6... Looks like that base is screwed. Kal pulls his Probes...
Kal countering into Flash's third/fourth!
Arb dies...
Flash bringing his units back....
OMG PSI STORM!!
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lol Flash EMP'd an arb just after it died. kal fails to snipe this CC, Flash manages to repair it without too many loses
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Kal recalls on top of tanks while he tries to break 12! Going to force the liftoff
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i cant imagine the apm in this game
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KAL RECALLS ON FLASH'S ARMY, WIPES IT OUT.
actually that was only about 1/2 of Flash's army, the rest is set up behind quite a nice pickett line
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things not looking good for flash now, he is stuck playing a defensive position, kal's army is circling around his zone.
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I hope one day Protoss players will learn to save their recalled units just by recalling them back home. Anyway, Kal plays quite amazing game. Lovely macro struggle by both, but Toss is so good.
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Canada8031 Posts
Kal recalls on the tanks.
I love you so much.
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kinda expect flash just to roll up Kal in a few minuyts
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Kal's now secure top right and is rebuilding 6:00.
Flash sacks a science vessel to get of an EMP on an arbiter, not sure if it hit or not.
Templars out now for Kal.
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3/2 upgrades just finished for Flash.
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Flash gets off a critical EMP on the arbiter right as Kal goes for a break!
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HE DIDNT WALK INTO THE TANKS
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Kal does a lot of damage but he doesn't have enough! He loses everything and Flash holds!
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omg flash defense is good, but kal has too much stuff. flash's tanks are dying, 3 left now. dmatrix on 1, and he pulls it off!
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flash goes to counter now at 12 oclock, taking down the cannons and pylon.
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Kal now going to lose the base at 12, which Flash is ready to reclaim immediately.
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Jesus so intense barely held..
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Flash 3-2 now.... I don't want to LR anymore.... Just want to watch this game.....
Kal taking a slight lead thanks to his top right expo.
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Kal's bases all look like theyre wearing a little thin on resources, except for top right.
Flash gets off another EMP on an arbiter!!
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Kal going for another EMP on the bottom left area of the map, but instead of flying in and recalling on the D he just recalsl outside in a safe position and tries to walk in through the minefield and to the tanks that are well positioned behind depots and turrets . . .
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Canada5565 Posts
Flash's supply depot placement is so nice~
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And Flash indeed just going to roll up Kal
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flash is now attacking kal's expo at 1 oclock, kal doesnt have any forces there but recalls some goons and a ht, however flash pushes on and the expo goes down.
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Flash now looks like he's about to take out top right, unless Kal can do something quickly. This is Kal's last fully functional base (others about to mine out soon), so he needs to defend it.
Again he opts to recall not on the tanks but in front of them. Doesn't work out well for him, and now he's going to lose the Nexus.
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this looks like its over .)
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal desperately recalling into top right to try and buy time... He has a lot of reinforcements coming from the south....
They have to break this offensive from Flash, but mines are slowing him down A LOT.
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this looks over. freaken terrans.
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Some nice stasis by Kal, but Flash just has way too many tanks, mines, and vultures in position. His positioning is wonderful too.
Kal's break attempt does damage but not nearly enough. He's in serous trouble now.
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Wow Flash makes it look imbalanced.
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On April 13 2010 18:32 Doraemon wrote:
this looks over. freaken terrans.
Kal shot himself in the foot with some idiot frontal charges at Flash his depot-wall
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Fuck Nexus at top right goes down....
Flash's reinforcements push Kal back.....
Kal bringing in more reinforcements....
These Zealots need to do the trick... EXCEPT THEY'RE CAUGHT BEHIND THE GOONS >.<
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OUCH goons walk up a little too far and about four of them instantly turn into blue goo
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Kal's forces starting to look really thin.
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Anyone can explain why Kal refuses to take bottom-left corner? He could use high ground to cover it easily. Instead of that, he will just lose top-right corner. Even though I felt he was miles ahead...
But Flash macroes flawlessly.
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kal taking bottom left expo
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kal has lost his advantage now, and flash is once again on the offensive, extending his tank wall. flash on 2-3 upgrades, kal is 3-3.
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Flash EMPs most of Kal's remaining goons, but loses a science vessel to do it and misses the two arbiters.
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Kal desperately trying to secure a fresh base in bottom left, but Flash is moving in through a very tight, efficient choke that Kal can't possibly break.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal now trying to take bottom left instead... But Flash is redirecting with a ton of tanks...
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thats one narrow ass passage of tanks
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TANKS ARE FUCKING POWERFUL
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Canada5565 Posts
Not the best storms either but to be fair Flash spaced his tanks so nicely...works well to minimize effectiveness of stasis too.
I fell that Kal's first attack when he ran in right after that huge EMP was a blunder, and then when he attacked the same spot a few minutes later the same thing happened. Can't just bash down the front door like that, though he did come close the second time.
Should be using more recalls, maybe while he was pushing the front.
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flash taking out the expo at 7 now. kal is almost mined out on his remaining ones.
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Flash got himself into position, and now bottom left is going to fall. Kal responding by redirecting his forces to top right. Currently distance mining from the patches there.
Flash looks like he's almost mined out at the moment, but he has such a large ground army that it might not matter much.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Kal doesn't have the units left to break Flash..... Kal with a ton of units doing nothing at top right, but there's not much he can do at this point.
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If only Kal kept reinforcing the push he did to Flash's natural...
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nice stasis from kal! moving in!
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Canada5565 Posts
Flash's slow push like this is truly scary O_O
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On April 13 2010 18:36 Xxio wrote:
Not the best storms either but to be fair Flash spaced his tanks so nicely...works well to minimize effectiveness of stasis too.
I fell that Kal's first attack when he ran in right after that huge EMP was a blunder, and then when he attacked the same spot a few minutes later the same thing happened. Can't just bash down the front door like that, though he did come close the second time.
Should be using more recalls, maybe while he was pushing the front.
Yeah, he was doing very well, untill those brainfarts. Might be a cliche, but it seems alot of Protoss are still stuck in the a-move-maxed-army mentality
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Flash now with a large force that's securing bottom left, g oing to take it as his next expansion.
Kal moving in with everything to try to break it, gets off some mean stasis, but mines kill almost all of the speedlots and now he just has a few goons left vs. well positioned tanks.
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DOUBLE STASIS FROM AN ARB, FLASH WASNT EXPECTING IT SO HE DIDNT EMP
BUT TOOOO MANY TANKS FROM BEHIND
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Kal's forces moving in, trying to re-establish control over 1 and 7 oclock. kal starts rebuilding at 1 now.
big battle at 7 oclock, lots of stasis as flash starts a CC (and then cancels when kal's troops arive). kal backs off due to a massive tank count.
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Yeah this game is over.
I'm really interested how the stats on this map will look like in a few weeks time.
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Flash for some reason lifted 12:00 before it was mined out?
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fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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Kal now losing top right, which will make him completely mined out without a significant army.
His last group of goons is currently getting demolished by a small task force from Flash's army.
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This was a good comeback by flash, though to be honest, kal tried to assault flash's nat twice unsuccessfully.
kal ggs.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
GG from Kal.....
Horrible horrible....
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wow, I kept watching to see if flash was going to lose a battle
lol
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another win for mr.proleague! gg
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Yeah Flash back to normal
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Canada5565 Posts
Booo! I was so sure I would get Kal and Flash wins tonight for my FPL hehe
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On April 13 2010 18:39 Jakalo wrote:Yeah Flash back to normal
Good thing we got through that slump!
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Flash was 3 tanks away from losing control of his nat and the game so.. really pretty close at one point
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Not excited anymore when Flash wins, its just so...expected.
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lol
commentator 1: how the hell is toss supposed to beat flash? kal did everything right but still lost.
kingdom: he didnt go carriers
commentator 1: lol
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ffs. terrans gonna go 70%+ in R4...
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On April 13 2010 18:38 Malinor wrote:
Yeah this game is over.
I'm really interested how the stats on this map will look like in a few weeks time.
Ridiculously favoured for terran most likely. Seems like there's nothing but really small chokes.
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Now the question is can the rest of KT (likely Forgg/stats/violet) pull off 1 more win for Flash to take the ace, or will we have another 1-3.
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On April 13 2010 18:40 d_so wrote:
lol
commentator 1: how the hell is toss supposed to beat flash? kal did everything right but still lost.
kingdom: he didnt go carriers
commentator 1: lol
Gotta roll out more stuff from the PvT abuse checklist. Gas steal and (relatively) fast double nexus wasn't enough apparently.
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Canada5565 Posts
On April 13 2010 18:40 Vasoline73 wrote:
Flash was 3 tanks away from losing control of his nat and the game so.. really pretty close at one point
I know! I think Kal went to macro or something because he had maybe 5 goons that he could have moved right up to those sieged tanks and finished them. Then he would have been able to finish his base at 12 oclock etc.
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On April 13 2010 18:40 QuothTheRaven wrote:Good thing we got through that slump!
yeah that 2 loss streak really got me sad!
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On April 13 2010 18:40 d_so wrote:
lol
commentator 1: how the hell is toss supposed to beat flash? kal did everything right but still lost.
kingdom: he didnt go carriers
commentator 1: lol
LOL This is quite true. I think the only real way to beat Flash now is to either go Carriers (though not like Jaehoon ><) or to go 4 gate goons (I think tosses should start learning from Nony).
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would flash be this good if he was protoss? terran just seems invincible when flash is playing it
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Why do Protoss players consistently make those terrible blunders? Easy to blame maps/racial imbalances, but they really play like idiots some times. Throwing away a maxed army twice at Flash his defenses. The second attack was crucial as it allowed Flash to take the base at 12 that Kal was trying to take and the whole game just collapsed fromt here
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Toss needs to get about 12 arbs and just stadid the Terran army over and over again.
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On April 13 2010 18:43 Lann555 wrote:
Why do Protoss players consistently make those terrible blunders? Easy to blame maps/racial imbalances, but they really play like idiots some times. Throwing away a maxed army twice at Flash his defenses. The second attack was crucial as it allowed Flash to take the base at 12 that Kal was trying to take and the whole game just collapsed fromt here
how is kal suppose to attack with chokes like that
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can someone give me a link to a working DNS server? mine keeps crashing. i missed over half of that game D:
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On April 13 2010 18:41 QuothTheRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 18:40 d_so wrote:
lol
commentator 1: how the hell is toss supposed to beat flash? kal did everything right but still lost.
kingdom: he didnt go carriers
commentator 1: lol Gotta roll out more stuff from the PvT abuse checklist. Gas steal and (relatively) fast double nexus wasn't enough apparently.
He was way ahead when the first push on flash's nat started. Had he had another 5-6 zealots he could have broken through, but once he lost his forces, flash was able to re-expand.
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On April 13 2010 18:40 QuothTheRaven wrote:Good thing we got through that slump!
That WAS terrible, dont you agree!
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Hopefully getting ANYONE else on KT to win just one game isn't too much to ask this time around . . .
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Love that image of Flash pulling a handcart filled with all of KT in it.
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Canada5565 Posts
On April 13 2010 18:43 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 18:43 Lann555 wrote:
Why do Protoss players consistently make those terrible blunders? Easy to blame maps/racial imbalances, but they really play like idiots some times. Throwing away a maxed army twice at Flash his defenses. The second attack was crucial as it allowed Flash to take the base at 12 that Kal was trying to take and the whole game just collapsed fromt here how is kal suppose to attack with chokes like that
Recal n' Stasis. Storms if you can. Zlot drops. Or just not engage at those chokes, especially not when your army got EMP'd 2 seconds ago.
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Ye, Kal tried to run like 30 zealots through a choke into a mass of vultures without stasis support in his first attack. Killed like 3 tanks total and lost his entire army.
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That was a pretty awesome game in the end.
Kal did a decent job but in the end his harass wasn't quite good enough.
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On April 13 2010 18:44 QuothTheRaven wrote:
Hopefully getting ANYONE else on KT to win just one game isn't too much to ask this time around . . .
are you kidding? STX is powerful; shuttle, calm, hwasin maybe.
Would be lucky if any other KT gets a game *hope*
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On April 13 2010 18:44 QuothTheRaven wrote:
Hopefully getting ANYONE else on KT to win just one game isn't too much to ask this time around . . .
You're asking the impossiblol with their current condition.
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flash not looking to good..
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Canada5565 Posts
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What happened to Stat's chin?!
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fuck yea, Stats. finally replaced Violet.
go boy, stomp some noob
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that's... not stats... I think they messed up the ID again.
edit: TLPD says it's Tempest.
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Stats looks different... 0_o
anyway, Tempest vs Bogus up next.
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Thats tempest fools! lol.
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51480 Posts
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bogus for STX vs tempest from KT
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On April 13 2010 18:49 Kwanroller wrote:
What happened to Stat's chin?!
Was wondering the same thing. Thought "Who is this guy" and when i see it stats im like wtf?
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On April 13 2010 18:43 InFdude wrote:
That was painful to watch .Kal played alot better IMO and won so many battles but the map just wouldn't let him win.
You clearly don't understand TvP. Flash's army movement, macro and positioning was unreal. To say Kal played "alot" better is just plain ignorant.
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On April 13 2010 18:43 Qwertify wrote:I'm sure NonY can beat Flash.
Sure, at english grammar.
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lol everyone thinking Tempest was Stats... .
Anyways guys, KT is the best team. Going to 3-0 here! woot. Hoping for ForGG v Calm 3rd game
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i think tempest is an apt name, foo always looks mad
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On April 13 2010 18:45 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 18:43 Doraemon wrote:On April 13 2010 18:43 Lann555 wrote:
Why do Protoss players consistently make those terrible blunders? Easy to blame maps/racial imbalances, but they really play like idiots some times. Throwing away a maxed army twice at Flash his defenses. The second attack was crucial as it allowed Flash to take the base at 12 that Kal was trying to take and the whole game just collapsed fromt here how is kal suppose to attack with chokes like that Recal n' Stasis. Storms if you can. Zlot drops. Or just not engage at those chokes, especially not when your army got EMP'd 2 seconds ago.
he was using recall and stasis, he was storming, he was dropping templars and some z's, if you dont engage him, his macro takes full effect and his upgrades climb, fucking flash is a beast emp'ing every attack with perfect timing, the clutter of depots knowing he would attack there, the clutter of mines before every big attack, perfect placement of tanks(which are too powerful in most maps imho).
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On April 13 2010 18:50 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 18:43 InFdude wrote:
That was painful to watch .Kal played alot better IMO and won so many battles but the map just wouldn't let him win. You clearly don't understand TvP. Flash's army movement, macro and positioning was unreal. To say Kal played "alot" better is just plain ignorant.
Yeah, repositioning your army, moving it from place to place, getting off EMPS, sieging/unsieging, laying mines, building turrets, building depots to wall places, always having the right amount of forces in the right places at the right times, spreading tanks . . . all this stuff doesn't look that hard but it's OBSCENELY difficult to do with the UI of Starcraft (all while keeping up your non-MBS macro!), which is what makes Flash's play so incredibly impressive to anyone who's tried to do it on their own at a decent level.
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Im actually really happy with these. Besides flash all of the other KT players rely heavily on preperation to do well in a game. Tempest is probably there 2nd best player with the current rules of PL. When he plays well ofcourse. lol
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Tempest the toss at 1
Bogus the Terran at 7.
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Tempest scouting very early - proxy probably
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Wow, I forgot Tempest even existed. He can definitely win this if the good Tempest comes and plays.
Bogus prevents a gas steal.
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commentators cracking themselves up lol
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Stats looks like he was going for a gas steal, but Bogus caps it just in time.
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no, just tried to gas steal? but bogus got up gas up relatively early
didn't notice his pylon at home
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Nexus first for Tempest..Bogus scouts for proxies but not for Tempest's base
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Oh wait it's Tempest? I could have sworn I saw it said Stats.
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depot-gas-rax-fact for Bogus
Bogus scouts the early nexus
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Finally KT sends out temptest, probably the most underused programer right now. imo he's better then Stats and Violet.
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core and 2nd gate immediately after for tempest
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FE going up now for Bogus.
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Bogus starts his own expo at his nat
his machine shop researching something, still on one fact
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SCV gets into Tempest's base past the goon, going to see everything in there.
Temptest starting his 2nd gas fairly early at his expansion.
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First goon out, but is slow to finally kill the scouting scv
Tempest starts his nat gas
first vulture out, research is probably mines
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On April 13 2010 18:54 FireGuyX wrote:
Finally KT sends out temptest, probably the most underused programer right now. imo he's better then Stats and Violet.
Clearly have not seen a lot of Tempest melt down games. Kid has nerves or something.
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Yep, it was mines - mines laid on the ramp next to 3
robo starts for tempest, while bogus goes for starport/control tower
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Bogus laying a few mines outside Tempest's base and outside his 3rd to protect his FE.
Fast starport opening from Bogus. Machine shop probably researching vulture speed now.
Meanwhile Tempest is getting robo after range.
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both on 2 base now, tempest with a decent goon count on defense.
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vulture checks out 6 - nothing there
3 vultures massing the west of tempest's main - and a dropship is out!
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Nice temptest already has goons positioned back inside his base and pylons positioned in anticipation of a drop.
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Temest with such a nice building placement.
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4 vultures loaded up and dropped inot the main - but it runs into an observer on the way and some goons are ready to respond
still, 3 vultures live to raid the main mineral line and spot the stargate/templar archives
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Vultures drop, see the fast starport and 2base arbiter build, but they're not going to accomplish all that much else besides getting a few probes at most. Definitely a win there for Tempest.
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But stargates are scouted by the vultures.
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dropship lost, but another one is ready
despite inferior micro, the drop did get a number of probe kills.
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Bogus now on 3 factories
Tempest adds another 2 gates as well as a tribunal
4 vultures loaded into the new dropship
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Bogus on 2.5
flash drinking happily on the bench.
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Bogus taking his 3rd base at his mineral only, going for another drop in Tempest's main but again tempest has 4 goons there and an observer as well. Got like maybe two probes in exchange for 4 vultures.
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4 vultures dropped at the top left of the main this time - vultures are having a hard time getting into place to attack tempest's main mineral line
bogus is expanding to 9
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How isnt game one recommended?
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tempest expands to 3
bogus lays tons of mines below the ramp at tempest's nat
and sets up 2 tanks at the abuse spot
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Seems like it's been a recent trend lately for Terrans to take their third as fast as protoss, or often earlier.
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as a mass of goons come out to clear the mines - the two tanks are picked up and the vultures run away
vultures snipe the probe that built the base at 3
4 tanks dropped in tempest's main!
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4 tank drop in Tempest's main?! Dropships now ferrying in 8 vultures to support it!
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Temptest sends a force to try to deal with it, but it gets cleaned up. Then he loses MORE guys to it before it finally gets taken out.
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vultures dropped with the tanks, and they siege near the main mineral line! do some damage
cleared out by mostly zealots
3 vultures run to 3, but without micro, they die to cannons and later goons, without dealing much damage
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bogus with 2 shuttles, drops 4 tanks in tempest's main. now drops vultures with a second wave of the dropships. tempest sends zealots followed by goons to clean up.
bogus meanwhile sends vults to harsass and picks off 1 probe in the 3rd.
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rofl bogus alias fits him so well
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Bogus clearly the faster player :-)
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Bogus prepares the east side of his main for recalls
his scv chilling at 5 knows that tempest hasn't expanded there yet
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bogus getting lots of turrets in his main, and mines the area against a possible recall.
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but a medium force of goons kills the scv at 5 and a probe heads that way to expand!
6 vultures head towards 3 but are trapped, their numbers reduced by half
but they head to 5 and snipe the probe before it starts the nexus!
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bogus trying to harass with some vults, mining a few areas, but observers help the goons pick it off, no real damage.
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Vultures trying to push into Tempest's 3rd for some harassment, but get denied. Then he manages to snipe the probe before it can get off the 4th nexus! Big setback for Temptest.
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Bogus has his first vessel - good timing - but tempest has had arbiters for quite awhile without recalling yet
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On April 13 2010 19:01 Scaramanga wrote:
How isnt game one recommended?
oops. thanks, forgot
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tempest expands to 5
but bogus also floats a cc to 11
tempest is playing very passive
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On April 13 2010 18:50 adelarge wrote:Sure, at english grammar.
He can probably beat you at English grammar as well.
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tempest moving his forces to the middle, with 1 arb and 1 observer. starts his 4th meanwhile.
bogus landing a cc in his 4th as well.
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two science vessels out now for Bogus, with 1/0 upgrades as well and probably 2/1 well on the way.
Tempest taking his 4th, but Bogus' 4th CC is already done and landing in the top left. So both Bogus' 3rd and 4th bases were faster than Tempest's, and also Bogus' economy hasn't been harassed at all this game.
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tempest eats 2 mine hits despite having an observer with his goons...
bogus has mixed in 4 goliaths with his army
tempest moves his army towards 11!
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Bogus reminds me a lot of Flash when he started. A talented player, that beat many pro-players with cheese, and that no one really wanted to take seriously.
But yeah, he could have picked a better alias.
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nice! arbiter dodges the emp and stasis's bogus's tank on the lower ramp to 5 - so he can't reinforce that way
bogus sieges his tanks on the lowground
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Stasis on the ramp blocks reinforcements from coming into the 4th as Tempest tries to break it!
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Tempest attacks bogus's 4th! vessel tries to emp the arb, but misses. arbitar statsises troops on the ramp to block off reinforcements. tempests units move in and cc is forced to lift!
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On April 13 2010 19:04 M2 wrote:
Bogus clearly the faster player :-)
lol
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Wow tempest uses so much to break into that base and the CC just flies away haha.
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repair saves the cc as it floats south of 5
a group of vultures destroy the cannons at 5 and now prey on the weak probes...almost all killed as they flee WEST?!?
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Vultures doing some strong harassment on bottom right.
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bogus counters with vultures on tempest's 4th. takes down all the probes.
tempest laying down a 5th nexus at 6 oclock, but is forced to cancel when spotted.
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Tempest, realizing 2 cannons weren't enough, builds 4 of them at 5.
first templar out
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no way terran can lose from here
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Tempest cancels both his 6:00 nexus and both of the cannons warping there when the vultures chase the probes into the base. Why would he run his probes into his base if he was going to cancel it when the vultures followed them . . .
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arbiter heads to 11 and recalls - bonus's response force is stormed once, twice, three times
that ramp is really helping out tempest
cc killed!
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Recall at top left, with storms on the ramp to delay reinforcements. Snipes the CC!
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epic storms from tempest! snipes the CC!
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0-0-2 for tempest. 1-2 for bogus.
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NICE! Nice attack at freaking 11!!!! Tanks eat so many storms and the CC is sniped
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Snipes the CC, but at what cost?
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bogus clears the recalled force out, but his tanks took a ton of damage from storm
he begins to rebuild the cc right away
bogus still making sure tempest doesn't expand to 12 or 6
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Another recall incoming at top left, CC canceled immediately. Bogus EMPs the goons but misses the arbiter, which takes the opportunity to stasis the ramp again.
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another recall at 11. destroys(canceled actually) the new CC building. stasis on the ramp and starts picking away depots/turrets
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Wow, tempest at 3?-2 ground ups - his army is dangerous
another recall at 11 - the cc there cancelled
once again units on the ramp are stasis'd, blocking them from moving up
bogus starts another cc at 11 with a remaining scv, goons force it to cancel
tempest starts a nexus at 6
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another recall on bogus's 4th and another stasis on the units on the ramp. bogus is forced to cancel the cc he was building. this must be annoying him something awful.
meanwhile, tempest is building his 5th again at 6 oclock.
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Man seems like Tempest isn't macroing well
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only a few probes maynarded towards 6.
Arbiter heading towards 11 again!
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but it chills east of 11 - and there's still an arbiter in the top left corner!
tank dropped at 6, with an scv to build a depot to block it off!
2 tanks in the main also support the attack!
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another recall heading towards 11! arbiter sliding along the top like a ninja. tank dropped at 6 o clock expo and hitting the nex. multiple other tanks behind the cliff him him
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Hah, they removed the doodad that could make invincible tank drops at 12 and 6, so Bogus just drops a tank there and builds a supply depot to wall it.
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Arbiter heads towards 7 in response to the attack on 6 - but enough turrets are there to kill it before it can recall
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game is officially over if terran takes bottom
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tempest tries to fly an arb into bogus's main, but it dies to the massive ammounts of turrets.
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Oh man Tempest goes for a recall to save his 6:00 base, but the arbiter dies to a mass of turrets before it can get teh recall off. Zealots moving in now, but they can't get to the tank because of the depot and missile turret!
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Tempest tries again, this time gets off the recall in the main!
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damn, arbiter flies into all those turrets and the idle vessel and recalls successfully into bogus's main, killing the tanks shelling 6 instantly
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recalls into bogus' main! gets hit by some mines, but still wreaking havoc
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another arb and a successful recall now, though it has been emped, and he did land on mines, which killed a few goons. still, goons inside bogus's main.
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Tempest? Wow all of KT must be in a deep slump.
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Another arbiter recalls right below bogus's factories
bogus really dropped the ball in the last few minutes
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remaining forces are cleaned up by sieged tanks and vults.
another recall at the cc in the main, this one takes out the tanks. bogus's buildings are under attack now, defending with goliaths and vults.
tempest's second wave dies as well.
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another vessel lost for bogus - and bogus doesn't even have vesseltech as his floating facility was destroyed at 6.5
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That recall was insanely cost effective. Killed all those tanks and turrets, saved his 6:00 base, forced bogus to move his whole army into a more passive position and divert a ton of APM to stopping it, killed some depots, and now Bogus will ahve to take the time to rebuild all that stuff and start over with his D.
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bogus tries the same trick at 6 - but mismicro of his scv there suicides it into the cannons
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2 more arbs for tempest both get stasis'd.
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Bogus needs some wraiths here
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bogus's north army is on the move!
but tempest's army is also on the move as well - attacks towards 8 - depots wall the place off but fall quickly
storm decimates bogus's army - but his main army is moving there to respond!
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tempest tries a frontal assault on bous's nat. zealots rush up the ramp and takes down the wall plus some tanks, but then retreat as the rest of the tanks arrive.
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what are you doing tempest? trying to attack up a ramp like that with depots in the way :S
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Tempest going for a counter at Bogus' small ramp, but Bogus had walled it off entirely and it buys him time to reposition his army. Tempest loses a lot of zealots there.
Tempest now taking 12:00 and trying to defend his 6:00 base against tank + supply depot cliffing.
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tempest quickly moves his army away as bogus returns to 8, losing very few units
tempest expands to 12!
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Psi storm takes out the dropship at 6:00!
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tempest storms and destroys a dropship for bogus.
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small goon force clearing mines below 12
bogus moving his army towards 12 - they clash!
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this guy learned from flash's EMP
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Tempest goes for a break, but a critical EMP plus d-matrix plus high-ground advantage mean that there's no chance of that happening. He loses a lot and has to back off.
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forces engage, but stasis was late and the arb got emped. tempest is forced to retreat his army. bgus is now getting close to sieging on 12.
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very nice storms and stasis by tempest, but its not enough to break the push
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nice d-matrix absorbs most of the storm damage - tempest's goons have to back off as bogus continues his push towards 12!
but both vessels are stasis'd
and a huge storm on 4 of the 6 unfrozen tanks
still - more tanks arrive to reinforce and tempest backs off again!
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another wave, this time with double stasis, but additional tanks take down a ton of goons, blue goo everywhere!
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TEMPEST'S ENTIRE GOON ARMY MELTS TO 3/2 TANKS
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Mass stasis, but tempest still loses all his goons. Shouldnt have wasted all his zealots charging up the ramp
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tanks now shelling 12 - and a cc being built below 12 to take the base immediately
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Tempest now losing 12:00, which is being taken by Bogus.
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Tempest loves his storms and recalls, but still...that doesn't make up for running into turrets/tanks.
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this looks like it for tempest. his nexus as 12 dies, his base at 6 will likely be next. he still has somewhat of an army, but bogus's 3-3 tank wall is too much.
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tempest on 3-0-0 ground ups
he's moving his army around - perhaps he wants to try to test bogus's army near 12?
but he moves his goon/zeal force south - wise not to fight terran head on
only 3 probes on the gas at his nat!
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On April 13 2010 19:21 moopie wrote:
this looks like it for tempest. his nexus as 12 dies, his base at 6 will likely be next. he still has somewhat of an army, but bogus's 3-3 tank wall is too much.
Taking out that dropship with psi storm has bought his 6 expansion some time, but it's only a matter of time before Bogus gets around to building another dropship and doing that same trick again.
Tempest going for a recall in the main on the depots, but Bogus' forces are already close. Seems like a desperation play to me, and it's not going to do that much.
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tempest looking to recall into the main. passes the mines. gets it off! most of bogus's forces are at the top!
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an arbiter potshotting at the half finished depot still at 6
a recall on bogus's main!
the armories under attack!
a second recall near the factories!
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bogus on 3-3, tempest still on on 0-0-3.
tons of arbs for tempest, but no good places to attack.
tempest tries to recall again in bogus's main. its successful and he manages to get the cc into the red.
a second recall comes in, and attack some tanks.
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Tempest doing ANOTHER recall in the main. He's probably committed his entire ground army to that at this point, and all he's done is kill a bunch of depots.
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bogus losing a lot of depots, 7 so far...going to be supply blocked for awhile
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second recall gets off as well! bogus forces to retreat units from his push. killing lots of depots , armoury, etc
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Recalls on top of enemy tanks is back in style once more
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Tempest coming in for a third recall, but the arbiter gets EMP'd!
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How many arbiters is that ?!
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another arbiter gets through into the main, but is emp'd
the hole in bogus's turrets at the south of his main is really costing him
another arbiter gets through into the main, and is emp'd AGAIN
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How many EMPs is that, too ?!
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ANOTHER arbiter gets EMP'd on its way in to the main.
Now yet another arbiter on its way in, this one sneaks by!
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How many fucking arbiters does he have?
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bogus lost 8 depos in his main, and another arb is now coming in !
oh, it got emped before it could recall another group. bogus's remaining base is on fire.
another arb comes in, but it also gets emped.
yet another arb is coming in now! bogus's vessel has no energy left, recall goes off.
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Tempest showing great arbitor play this game. Too bad the rest isnt quite up to par
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ANOTHER arbiter gets into the main, and recalls at the CC
the main cc is killed, even more depots are destroyed
all the depots in the south of bogus's main are destroyed
bogus's fvp shows him building a ton of depots
another recall near bogus's factories/army
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bogus has no forces to defend the main with, lost every supply depot he had there. the main is empty now. another recall in the main! though it all melts to tanks..
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that's a lot of blue goo o_o
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Recall gets cleaned up, but Tempest just sends yet ANOTHER arbiter for a recall AGAIN. But now there are way too many tanks there and it just gets demolished.
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tempest lost a LOT of his army in those exchanges
and on equal bases with terran....I don't think it'll pay off in the end
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Canada5565 Posts
Tempest whyyy you lost so many goons trying to push up that factory funnel
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another recall on bogus's factories - and now bogus has no forces to respond??
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Tempest has used up all his good dragoon play in that one single game. Today it's all blue goo
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tempest must be running dry on minerals. going to need to take out 12 really soon. another recall in the main!
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Tanks are too POWERFUL, i hope sc2 makes it slightly less range or power.
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another recall in the main! factories are under attack now. stasis on 4 tanks coming to save the base.
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Never ending recalls holy shit.
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nice stasis on 4 of bogus's tanks at the narrow choke between the main/nat
2 factories destroyed so far
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great stasis on the tanks! bogus has nothing to defend. his main is getting ravaged
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Wow Tempest recalls the main AGAIN. How many times is this?
This time he's getting a lot of factories and finally doing some damage.
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Bogus factory line being demolished
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Sickkkk. Nice nice arb use. This is why you can't let the P get 8 arbitors.. lol
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bogus has no army response - he's going to lose all his factories in his main!
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Canada5565 Posts
omg all those recalls pay off, so aggressive!
Bogus not expecting them one after the other.
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bogus however is adding depots and factories south of 12...he's just given up his main completely
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Bogus lost all his production. Rebuilding somewhere else and probably giving up on his main. Still hasnt dealt with the 6 either
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Bogus rebuilding factories at 12. Anyone catch how much money he has left?
Protoss is dead broke--he won't be able to remacro anything, so what he has is going to be pretty much it.
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this is what Terran get for playing turtle too much,
he had all the time in the world to push toss and trade bases
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an arbiter heads towards 12 but is taken down and emp'd
tempest is practically mined out - he must take down 12 to win
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bogus still got a lotttttttttttttt of tanks near 12 though. i think tempest is fucked
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bogus losing some factories in the main, and is forced to rebuild them outside 12 oclock.
an arb moves into 12 oclock but gets emped. tempest essentially mined out now. this looks like he will lose. has 1 more main force he is now marching to 12.
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6 is actually mined out now. Protoss not going to be able to throw army after army in anymore
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I can't recall seeing so much arbiter action in a single game before.
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On April 13 2010 19:28 anch wrote:
this is what Terran get for playing turtle too much,
he had all the time in the world to push toss and trade bases
They get a win?
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On April 13 2010 19:27 Lann555 wrote:
Bogus lost all his production. Rebuilding somewhere else and probably giving up on his main. Still hasnt dealt with the 6 either
At this point 12 is the only base left with minerals, so it's all that matters. And tempest doesn't have nearly enough to break it.
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the last attack of the game, probably, as goon/zeal attack into bogus's army below 12
tempest concedes
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tempest tries to break the terran wall and fails. tempest ggs.
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Tempest sucking hard with anything that's not arbitors =p
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Lol if tempest had won that i would have been piiiiissed
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coach pats bogus's head as he heads to high five the stx bench
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Canada5565 Posts
WHAT THE HEL LWAS THAT !!?!
fucking suidaohjak
i have no idea what just happened
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Just two more chances for someone on KT Flash to get their superstar to the ace match.
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Roffles raging on the stream again, because the tosses keep losing ^_^
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Summary: Two drunk people decided to play in Proleague.
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How is that map still in the map pool?
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c'mon, only 1 of 3 KT non-Flash players need to win, can the rest of KT's bench even do that?
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tempest, omfg. if only you were god at statising everything
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Turning point in the game was when Tempest lost 20+ zealots charging up a ramp into a sea of vultures/mines. Bogus pushed out afterwards and Tempest was stuck with just goons/arbs. If he had those zealots to back up his stasis he could have stopped the push and defended the 12
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Tempest's macro just a little underpar. Good micro and still almost won the game. I wish they took match point out already :/.
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Canada5565 Posts
So instead of waiting to build up energy on his arbiters for max recall/stasis - OR - bother to attack form a different angle and avoid the mine field of death, or attempt a flank, Tempest decides to A-move into Bogus' entrenched position and GG when his army OBVIOUSLY gets raped.
what the fuck.
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Bogus was lucky to have won that. He's still way too timid when it comes to pushing out. Fortunately for him, Tempest is still a bonehead macrobot and managed to throw away enough units to hand over the win.
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On April 13 2010 19:31 pines0ul wrote:
Bogus was lucky to have won that. He's still way too timid when it comes to pushing out. Fortunately for him, Tempest is still a bonehead macrobot and managed to throw away enough units to hand over the win.
He wasn't lucky, it's just if T gets either 6 or 12 and holds it, its pretty much autowin for them, unless P has like 24 carriers, but then T would have never got 6 or 12 in the first place.
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some really gay moves kept bogus in that
aka that shit with the tank and depot at 6
but I thought tempest would have it after he denied top left for so long but i guess tempest was just sucking way too many resources into just denying a CC and not killing very much army. Though storms at the ramp were nice
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so disappointed in how protosses have been playing late game on match point. just fucking obey the 1st rule of pvt, your army should attack where the terran army isnt
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On April 13 2010 19:33 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:31 pines0ul wrote:
Bogus was lucky to have won that. He's still way too timid when it comes to pushing out. Fortunately for him, Tempest is still a bonehead macrobot and managed to throw away enough units to hand over the win. He wasn't lucky, it's just if T gets either 6 or 12 and holds it, its pretty much autowin for them, unless P has like 24 carriers, but then T would have never got 6 or 12 in the first place.
...when is the last time you saw a progame with 24 carriers? that would be 144 supply (not to mention 13k mins after interceptors).
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On April 13 2010 19:30 Romantic wrote:
Summary: Two drunk people decided to play in Proleague.
Drop in quality was expected as now they have to practice all the machups against all the different styles of other players.
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Tempest was draining his economy by recalling all the time. He should have known by the 6th failed recall that his strategy was not effective.
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well bogus was able to stay on equal bases (3) with tempest for most of the early/mid game
get his upgrades up fairly early
despite getting arbiter tech relatively early, tempest didn't do anything with them until bogus had (relatively late) vessel tech and plenty of time to set up mines and turrets in his main
bogus played well - despite the attacks on his main, he didn't give into temptation to split his army that was positioned to defend 12
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On April 13 2010 19:36 FireGuyX wrote:
Tempest was draining his economy by recalling all the time. He should have known by the 6th failed recall that it was not effective.
actually, taking out all of the supply depos and the factories in the main was effective. had he not gotten mined out just then, he would have had a big advantage while bogus couldn't remake his army.
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On April 13 2010 19:35 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:33 Sadistx wrote:On April 13 2010 19:31 pines0ul wrote:
Bogus was lucky to have won that. He's still way too timid when it comes to pushing out. Fortunately for him, Tempest is still a bonehead macrobot and managed to throw away enough units to hand over the win. He wasn't lucky, it's just if T gets either 6 or 12 and holds it, its pretty much autowin for them, unless P has like 24 carriers, but then T would have never got 6 or 12 in the first place. ...when is the last time you saw a progame with 24 carriers? that would be 144 supply (not to mention 13k mins after interceptors).
the Kal vs Flash game before tonight had that. Kal lost basically everything so he spent all his money on carriers, had at least 20 of them, but ran out of interceptors vs Flash's infinite gols
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On April 13 2010 19:31 pines0ul wrote:
Bogus was lucky to have won that. He's still way too timid when it comes to pushing out. Fortunately for him, Tempest is still a bonehead macrobot and managed to throw away enough units to hand over the win.
What? His play was really strong for the first 3/4 or so of that game. Both his 3rd and 4th bases were up much faster than Tempest's, and he also had some (decent but not incredible) dropship harassment that kept the P in his base losing some econ, while Bogus' economy was relatively unharmed. Then he had some pretty nice defense of his 4th, even though he lost it a few times Tempest was only on 4bases for a very, very long time so it wasn't *that* big of a deal. And he had some really nice harassment with the tank/depot/turret drop at 6, and some great EMPs for a long time, plus good vulture harassment on the P's 4th and 5th bases.
Sure he really broke down at the end there when that recall got into his main, as his multitasking was clearly stretched, but he managed to keep it together enough to pull out the win.
He didn't really need to push out at any time, because Tempest didn't expand very aggressively--all he really needed to do was sit on (pretty much) equal bases until his upgrades kicked in and he got a critical mass of stuff.
Tempest on the other hand was just horribly sloppy. Had he won I think there would have been good cause to call it a lucky victory, but I thought Bogus' win seemed pretty solid there. (At least as I remember the game)
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On April 13 2010 19:34 lazz wrote:
so disappointed in how protosses have been playing late game on match point. just fucking obey the 1st rule of pvt, your army should attack where the terran army isnt
Its fucking hard late game, you try to take either 12 or 6 and your getting dropped at one and then pused from two high grounds from the other, i can understand what you mean but i'd just go carriers once im on 4 base
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On April 13 2010 19:38 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:36 FireGuyX wrote:
Tempest was draining his economy by recalling all the time. He should have known by the 6th failed recall that it was not effective. actually, taking out all of the supply depos and the factories in the main was effective. had he not gotten mined out just then, he would have had a big advantage while bogus couldn't remake his army.
Yeah but that was late-game, if Tempest done that earlier it would have been much more effective. In the end Bogus had the economy to rebuild his factories and Tempest didn't have the economy to replenish his units.
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On April 13 2010 19:38 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:36 FireGuyX wrote:
Tempest was draining his economy by recalling all the time. He should have known by the 6th failed recall that it was not effective. actually, taking out all of the supply depos and the factories in the main was effective. had he not gotten mined out just then, he would have had a big advantage while bogus couldn't remake his army.
yeah, design of the map that didn't favour him at that point in the game. it can be a very effective strategy though
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Hoejja-Calm
ZvZ KTF has a chance to get 1 here
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On April 13 2010 19:40 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:34 lazz wrote:
so disappointed in how protosses have been playing late game on match point. just fucking obey the 1st rule of pvt, your army should attack where the terran army isnt Its fucking hard late game, you try to take either 12 or 6 and your getting dropped at one and then pused from two high grounds from the other, i can understand what you mean but i'd just go carriers once im on 4 base
Yeah exactly. i hope toss go for more aggressive strategies in the future, like maybe trying to hold the ground above the mineral only 3rd for a while to delay the terran moving out and taking the 4th. once terran gets that 4th the game just seems retardedly easy for the terran, just turtle, drop expos and drain the toss until he ggs
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Hoejja bro what you doing. A zergling all in it looks like to me.
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hoejja 12hatches in his main.
calm going 12hatch at his natural(with gas)
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Calm sending his overlord directly to Hoejja, while Hoejja sends his overlord to the center of the map.
Hoejja going for an in-base 9hatch --> 9pool.
Calm looks like he went for 12hatch 11pool 10gas.
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.... did Hoejja 9 hatch or something? cause his hatch is much faster than Calm, who also went hatch first
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Fuck, Hoejja getting a game again. Bad for my anti team
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On April 13 2010 19:44 Grobyc wrote:
hoejja 12hatches in his main.
calm going 12hatch at his natural(with gas)
I'm pretty sure I counted 9 drones and no overlord for Hoejja when the hatch went up.
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Zerglings out for Hoejja, but he appears to be going the wrong way . . .
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On April 13 2010 19:44 Grobyc wrote:
hoejja 12hatches in his main.
calm going 12hatch at his natural(with gas)
no way its a 12-hatch, Hoejja's hatch was at 500-750 HP when Calm's STARTED
i think it was 9 since i didnt see an OL in the vicinity when it started
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Calm has the epic zergling concave. Hoejja with a random drone, LOL DRONE RANGES LINGS AND FORVES A BEND IN THE CONCAVE
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calm just BARELY defending
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Calm with a nice hold position zergling concave. Hoejja brings a drone and uses its range advantage to move some of the lings.
Hoejja goes in! He wins but with only a few zerglings left. Sunk going up in Calm's main, and the spire is going up as well.
Hoejja is COMPLETELY all-in here.
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and Hoejja fucked because the spire is done and his zergling all-in has failed to win him the game
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thats an awesome use of the drone in that attack by hoejja
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First mutalisk out for Calm. This is over.
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kt won't even win 3-1 today, what a waste of 6pts damn.
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Plz KT nonflash take 1 win in 6 tries.
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HoeJJa GGs. One more chance for KT Flash to get a win from a non-Flash player, or it's over.
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WOOT CALM
cmon 3-1, own that KT Flash
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hoejja gg's
yay, i knew i did the right thing picking him for my anti
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On April 13 2010 19:44 QuothTheRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:44 Grobyc wrote:
hoejja 12hatches in his main.
calm going 12hatch at his natural(with gas) I'm pretty sure I counted 9 drones and no overlord for Hoejja when the hatch went up.
o yeah, my bad.
very nice play from calm actually. very good at determining how many zerglings he needs to make in order to barely survive
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Calm wins zergling fight, Hoejja ggs
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:49 Vasoline73 wrote:
Good god wtf.
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It's ok guys, without Calm and Kal there's nobody left on STX who can stop the fOrGG macro
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Hoejja....
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On April 13 2010 19:39 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:35 moopie wrote:On April 13 2010 19:33 Sadistx wrote:On April 13 2010 19:31 pines0ul wrote:
Bogus was lucky to have won that. He's still way too timid when it comes to pushing out. Fortunately for him, Tempest is still a bonehead macrobot and managed to throw away enough units to hand over the win. He wasn't lucky, it's just if T gets either 6 or 12 and holds it, its pretty much autowin for them, unless P has like 24 carriers, but then T would have never got 6 or 12 in the first place. ...when is the last time you saw a progame with 24 carriers? that would be 144 supply (not to mention 13k mins after interceptors). the Kal vs Flash game before tonight had that. Kal lost basically everything so he spent all his money on carriers, had at least 20 of them, but ran out of interceptors vs Flash's infinite gols
I believe it was around 17-18, and that was on Fighting Spirit. Match point is far too small.
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I miss winner's league already
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ForGG or Violet for the rescue?
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I think Hoejja is one of the corrupted from gambling. He doesnt suck this much before.
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On April 13 2010 19:50 Scorch wrote:
ForGG or Violet for the rescue?
i hope forgg
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Last time KT-nonFlash won a game was Violet in SWL Finals. And that was just 1 game OMG.
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Baa?21244 Posts
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING.
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oh my fucking god.
with luxury in b-team, i was unsure if i can call myself a kt anymore.
the rest just sucks plain bad.
i hope forgg can make up for him.
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On April 13 2010 19:49 writer22816 wrote:
It's ok guys, without Calm and Kal there's nobody left on STX who can stop the fOrGG macro
Shuttle has a pretty good record vs our pretender
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51480 Posts
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
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On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING.
more like standard. But sure, pretty good.
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lets hope STX decides to play nice and send someone shitty, like hero or july.
that should be ez for forgg
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Stop playing HoeJJa please. fOrGG-Violet-Stats together should at least have a 50% chance to win a game.
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stx will probably send shuttle, kt should send forgg. If they send stats or violet they'll be raped
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On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING.
Or Calm didn't see Hoejja's overlord heading from that base and was trying to cut the corner as close as possible to see the creep, and then happened to move up when he realized he passed Hoejja's base. Looked alot like luck to me (even though Hoejja still would have lost imo.)
Just don't think calm was really trying to trick hoejja there
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:52 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING. more like standard. But sure, pretty good.
How the hell is that standard lol? Who flies an overlord like that standard?
On April 13 2010 19:53 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING. Or Calm didn't see Hoejja's overlord heading from that base and was trying to cut the corner as close as possible to see the creep, and then happened to move up when he realized he passed Hoejja's base. Looked alot like luck to me (even though Hoejja still would have lost imo.) Just don't think calm was really trying to trick hoejja there
Calm's Overlord began fling up, then he stopped and shifted ti the left a little bit more before continuing up. Seems on purpose enough...
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On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
or a fan of yellow/reach/nal_ra.
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On April 13 2010 19:52 anch wrote:
lets hope STX decides to play nice and send someone shitty, like hero or july.
that should be ez for forgg
july got booted off the april roster. he can't play. I suspect they'll send shuttle and KT will send forgg
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On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
It's hard to be a luxury fan right now :/
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On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
I was KT fan just as long as Last Romantic throwing fanboyism left and right.
except I only favored Kang Min.
its just so magically a kid stepped in at 2007.
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On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING.
that kind of play that made calm a msl champion and made me a fan of calm. Too bad clam sometimes shows up, but calm is known as brain zerg for a good reason
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On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
Well they did play pretty good earlier, but the way all of them are playing now. Can you blame us?
I myself am only fan of Flash since ages ago, not really KT.
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yoonjoong is best choice for stx now
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:53 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique. or a fan of yellow/reach/nal_ra.
I love YellOw/Reach/Nal Ra and I can't like the shitty excuse of a team that KT is today ._.
KTF <- favorite team ever
KT <- can die.
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you be a wraith stylish!
pew pew
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On April 13 2010 19:50 QuothTheRaven wrote:I miss winner's league already
sad, but true
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On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
no no no no no on your second statement!
Fans of teams aren't just because of current performance, unless you're a real fairweather fan. I'm a fan of boxer and oov, and there's probably a significant bunch of others with similar rationale! Hopefully fantasy can one day revive the T1 terran birthright.
And of course old-school KT fans have tons of old-school heroes as well...Nal_rA!!
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On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique.
you can be fan of bad players also, just look at all the estro and cj fanboys.
lux, 815, firefist and forgg also have a lot of charme, and the kt tosses never lose in a bad way, its always entertaining.
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On April 13 2010 19:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:52 StylishVODs wrote:On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING. more like standard. But sure, pretty good. How the hell is that standard lol? Who flies an overlord like that standard?
Well everytime you get the opportunity it should be done. I don't see how it's amazing but not really worth arguing about, it was a nice move.
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On April 13 2010 19:52 okum wrote:
Stop playing HoeJJa please. fOrGG-Violet-Stats together should at least have a 50% chance to win a game.
Flash should play 3rd, so he takes up the choking pressure.
Then he wont win the first game, his teammate wont think this is ezpz "just 1 win out of 3 lololol"
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Flash has such stupid pathetic teammates.
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firefist,..
fuck we are boned. i was really hoping for Stats.
vs Last, who the hell is this kid?
anyway, please win fss.
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Vatican City State101 Posts
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On April 13 2010 19:53 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:52 GTR wrote:
everyone who is a fan of kt is ultimately just a fan of just flash.
just like the bisu-skt and hwaseung-jaedong clique. or a fan of yellow/reach/nal_ra.
i started following ktf after they bought reach and ra
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firefist vs last
this sounds bad and probably will look bad
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On April 13 2010 19:56 Grobyc wrote:
you be a wraith stylish!
pew pew
yippie!
had no idea:D
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:57 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 13 2010 19:52 StylishVODs wrote:On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING. more like standard. But sure, pretty good. How the hell is that standard lol? Who flies an overlord like that standard? Well everytime you get the opportunity it should be done. I don't see how it's amazing but not really worth arguing about, it was a nice move.
I've seen a decent number of ZvZs (granted a lot of people probably saw more games than me) and that was the first time I saw something like that =S
And why aren't STX wearing their new uniforms? :3
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what no fordoublegangster
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gatorade zerg? gogogo i guess
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On April 13 2010 19:51 Heimatloser wrote:
oh my fucking god.
with luxury in b-team, i was unsure if i can call myself a kt anymore.
the rest just sucks plain bad.
i hope forgg can make up for him.
Actually Luxury is in jail where he belongs......
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Canada5565 Posts
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Probably trying to give ForGG practice time for OSL?
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does stx coach hate shuttle?Or is it the maps or something...?
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why no violet/stats/forgg ?? kt coach decisions make me sad sometimes.
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Firefist the yellow zerg at 2
Last the red terran at 11
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OL going the wrong way...thanks Roffles for streaming for us even though it seems you're about to sleep =)
(guessing from seeing you set up the auto shutdown)
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On April 13 2010 19:59 Almtom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:51 Heimatloser wrote:
oh my fucking god.
with luxury in b-team, i was unsure if i can call myself a kt anymore.
the rest just sucks plain bad.
i hope forgg can make up for him. Actually Luxury is in jail where he belongs......
if scammers are in jail I dont think anyone can beat Flash in this OSL, (except Kal, was he in the list?)
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Also could it be that ForGG is under investigation and thats why they arent playing him today? He is for sure the second best player on the KT team, so i dont get why they wouldnt use him otherwise?
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Hmm I don't think anyone thought we'd be seeing Firefist tonight instead of ForGG/Violet/Stats.
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On April 13 2010 19:59 Almtom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:51 Heimatloser wrote:
oh my fucking god.
with luxury in b-team, i was unsure if i can call myself a kt anymore.
the rest just sucks plain bad.
i hope forgg can make up for him. Actually Luxury is in jail where he belongs......
Yeah just like Savior and Yarnc and Jaedong.. all those people "confirmed" to be cheaters on various lists and throwing matches. Ohhhh wait, no names have come out yet from an official source? Maybe you should be less quick to say someone belongs in jail...
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hatchery first for firefist, then gas right after
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 19:59 zmeqt wrote:
does stx coach hate shuttle?Or is it the maps or something...?
Roadrunner's terrible PvT, and Last has good TvT. They were probably expecting ForGG.
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On April 13 2010 20:00 Almtom wrote:
Also could it be that ForGG is under investigation and thats why they arent playing him today? He is for sure the second best player on the KT team, so i dont get why they wouldnt use him otherwise?
No he's not under investigation
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On April 13 2010 19:59 moopie wrote:
why no violet/stats/forgg ?? kt coach decisions make me sad sometimes.
KT coach too sympathetic. Sends scrubs to give them a chance 
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rax set up near the ramp but not as a wall
2 rines hunt an overlord as it runs for the safety of the cliff!
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Also being a flash fan or a KT fan isn't that big of a difference. KT gets to play 3 games and Flash gets to play 2. And in WL flash plays more than KT.
So if you like flash you actually like 50% of KT LOL.
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1rax CC from Last. He might get to snipe an overlord here with his marines.
Yes, he gets it!
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lol boom goes the overlord. GO STX!!!!!!!!!!!
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On April 13 2010 20:01 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:59 Almtom wrote:On April 13 2010 19:51 Heimatloser wrote:
oh my fucking god.
with luxury in b-team, i was unsure if i can call myself a kt anymore.
the rest just sucks plain bad.
i hope forgg can make up for him. Actually Luxury is in jail where he belongs...... Yeah just like Savior and Yarnc and Jaedong.. all those people "confirmed" to be cheaters on various lists and throwing matches. Ohhhh wait, no names have come out yet from an official source? Maybe you should be less quick to say someone belongs in jail...
No kidding. every single player has been named on some list, most on hypothetical what-ifs, that then get quoted and spread by word of mouth. enough is enough.
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On April 13 2010 20:00 QuothTheRaven wrote:
Hmm I don't think anyone thought we'd be seeing Firefist tonight instead of ForGG/Violet/Stats.
i prefer firefist over violet/stats
however i didnt like the second and third set choices.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. Burn in a firefist Firefist!
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France2061 Posts
Things are starting well for firefist.
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OL dies!
lair starts for firefist
last starts his expo, and a 2nd rax/academy
his gas almost finishes
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firefist pumping pure drone?
scv in his main sees everything
a drone heads towards 3
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looks like 2hatch mutas from FF. last's natural up, gonna be on the defensive for the next little while.
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Roffles stream go offline?
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Maybe he set the shutdown countdown timer to 2 minutes instead of 2 hours
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firefist tries sneaking 3 lings in unsuccessfully.
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Last moving out towards the middle. FFs mutas just popping. FF heading closer to FFs 3rd
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On April 13 2010 20:04 moopie wrote:
firefist tries sneaking 3 lings in unsuccessfully.
how do you watch it?
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Baa?21244 Posts
Firefist puts down 3rd hatch at expo, prepares Mutas.
Mutas about to pop...
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On April 13 2010 20:05 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:04 moopie wrote:
firefist tries sneaking 3 lings in unsuccessfully. how do you watch it?
ogn account.
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firefist needs a haircut. mutas doing terrible terrible damage
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firefist now attacking last's main, but last send marines into firefist's main. spire goes down!
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
what the fuckkkkkkkkk
seriously, KT worst investment of 6 points ever.
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last counters! wiping out FFs main in return! FFs mutas reigning free over lasts base, destroying everything!
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will STX ever let YoonJoong play?
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Man sounds awful for KT. *sigh*
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this looks like a race against the clock. mutas still attacking scvs. pool down in firefists main.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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France2061 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:06 Garnet wrote:
will STX ever let YoonJoong play?
They can afford to send out the scrubs vs KT.
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FF has no tech! main has fallen and natural getting wiped out. All FF has is a handful of mutas and a mining expo with no tech
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:06 konadora wrote:
trading bases rofl
Lol trading bases with Mutas...
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LR please.. no streams :/
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mutas still picking off scvs, firefist lost his lair, and a lot of drones. mutas now coming to defend the nat.
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On April 13 2010 20:06 Garnet wrote:
will STX ever let YoonJoong play?
or Stats for KT?seriously 2 terrible zergs sent out today, all we need is 815 for ace and i can officialy say WTF KT(F)
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On April 13 2010 20:07 snowdrift86 wrote:They can afford to send out the scrubs vs KT.
more like YoonJoong can't afford to get sent out! har har
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mutas clean up the marines on the attack, and moving back on the offensive.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
wait it looks like there is hope LOL
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Baa?21244 Posts
Firefist puts down creeps at third, IDK wtf he's doing since he has no pool anymore lol.
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firefist tosses up 4 sunkens on his nat, hoping to block the next wave of m&m as his mutas are still on the offense.
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3 sunkens at FFs natural, 4th on the way. MnM can't break it! FF is mining at his natural. Last heading back to his main
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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Go Firefist! Take it to ace son!
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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lol this game is hilarious
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lair morphing for FF. we have a 1hatch build 12 minutes in folks!
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What does last have? any production?
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France2061 Posts
Wait what does last have left exactly?
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oh wait, hatchery up in main again. 2 hatch mutas on the way.
... again
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
nope not 1 hatch, firefist's backyard is mining
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Anyone streaming besides Roffles?
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Arrrrg. No one can livestream this? . Firefist fighting! Game sounds fun. I'm guessing FF with the advantage right now?
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:10 11cc wrote:
sounds epic lol
It's more sad than epic lol.
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So it sounds like FF has this?
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:10 snowdrift86 wrote:
Wait what does last have left exactly?
a handful of rines, 3 medics, 5 SCVs or something mining
firefist has 2 full bases mining, 3rd base going up
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Last got only 5 SCVs left mining. Last moving out with his remaining MnM. I don't think he can do much
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7 sunken colonies morphing???? Last is so fucked
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
firefist know he wins if he defends, massing sunkens
AND MUTAS OUT
LAST GOES FOR HIS LAST ATTACK
MARINES DIE
GGGGGG
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Kona please stream? u are our last hope
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS now someone please stream FLash!!
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fuck, too bad i missed this game, can anyone stream the ace match for us?
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Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Ace match incoming. lol. GOGO KTFLASH
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FUCK YES FIREFIST, So sweet
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France2061 Posts
Well, Bogus worked; sending out Last was pushing it I guess.
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That match was hilarious. gatorade!
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LOLOL firefist coming through wtf!
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Someone livestream KT vs STX please.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:12 SVN-ShaS wrote:Kona please stream? u are our last hope
i'll try, at my friend's house though
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Sounds like an insane game... if only the stream worked :/
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Forgg for ace please!
Someone stream!
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firefist is the last guy from KT aside from flash I'd expect a win from. haha. GJ GATORADE ZERG!
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Yeah, now STX coach can jump off a cliff for picking Last given the other choices he has on the bench.
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Baa?21244 Posts
Lol Firefist...
All right...who's gonna do this...
Kal v Flash again? Maybe Calm?
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who will stx send against flash?
hardest decision ever
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KT send hoejja please!! :;O
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France2061 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Lol Firefist...
All right...who's gonna do this...
Kal v Flash again? Maybe Calm?
Sending out Kal would be the smartest decision, but it's almost always been Calm.
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It's so retarded that Shuttle doesn't get to play. He's fucking awesome.
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ogn is the best stream and quality, get an account.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
FORGG AND NOT FLASH? WTF?
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Edit : nevermind, misunderstood.
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Vatican City State101 Posts
Major STX fail. They had this easily.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
FORGG VS SHUTTLE ACE MATCH
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SHUTTLE CHOSEN AS STX ACE
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yay, forgg gets some play time!
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On April 13 2010 20:16 Alaric wrote:
Oh damn, Baby vs JD on the other match, don't have bandwith for both in another stream goes up.
nop its not baby
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On April 13 2010 20:16 Alaric wrote:
Oh damn, Baby vs JD on the other match, don't have bandwith for both in another stream goes up.
Nope. It's RorO vs Jaedong. JvZ. We were robbed of two epic matches...
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France2061 Posts
FUCK YEAAAAH
YOONJOOONG
Though we need a streamer.
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On April 13 2010 20:16 Alaric wrote:
Oh damn, Baby vs JD on the other match, don't have bandwith for both in another stream goes up.
that's roro, not baby.
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Suddenly I'm less worried about watching the Ace match.
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This is good actually. I bet they think about Flash's game vs Kal tomorrow.
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hmm weird decision?!?
But I guess the decision that ForGG not play as 2nd or 3rd match because ForGG as ACE ...
woo hoo KT take this :D
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On April 13 2010 20:17 Likkzi wrote:Nope. It's RorO vs Jaedong. JvZ. We were robbed of two epic matches...
Yeah, me angry >: (
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omgggg lol. ForGG!!!!!!! HELL YEAH BABY. Take it to the limit son!
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now that was an awesome game hehehe
FORGG <3
own it up plx ^_^
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Hows the stream going konadora?
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Yeah thank you KT coach and STX coach.
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First Hogil and Movie for ace, now ForGG and Shuttle. The new proleague rules seem to bring out some unexpected lineup choices.
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is there a rule that players cannot play two games (including Ace match)?
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Wat. Firefist gives KT Flash a chance and the coach is going to squander it?
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Baa?21244 Posts
Shuttle will destroy this shit ^___^
Consider this: STX traditionally goes to Ace often. Knowing this, they would've prepared a vT ace player. Shuttle didn't play, so he practiced exclusively for a vT ace match on Grand Line. Hence, he's got this shit.
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Would have been rough to send Flash on Polaris AND Grand Line when both were brand new maps.
If it was FS or Match Point or even Roadrunner I think they would have just let Flash go anyway.
Seems like a lot of teams are sending a player they didn't send in the first 4 games for ace these days - all games are now equivalently difficult to prepare for so it does make sense.
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On April 13 2010 20:19 anch wrote:
is there a rule that players cannot play two games (including Ace match)?
no.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
i can't get my friend's procaster to work
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On April 13 2010 20:19 anch wrote:
is there a rule that players cannot play two games (including Ace match)?
No
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Wait? Firefitst won that game? lolol I qq'd out of the stream in rage when it looked like he was losing
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I totally called Forgg for ace.
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go forgg, for my fantasy and for my LB
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Grobyc. HERO
EDIT: Expecting ForGG to roll Shuttle by the way.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:21 Plexa wrote:
Wait? Firefitst won that game? lolol I qq'd out of the stream in rage when it looked like he was losing
yeah he won thanks to nice SCV snipes
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:22 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:21 Plexa wrote:
Wait? Firefitst won that game? lolol I qq'd out of the stream in rage when it looked like he was losing yeah he won thanks to nice SCV snipes
loooool
Cmon KT!! I need some points plz D:
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
anyone knows why i'm stuck at 0% when trying to log in via procaster, only to get 'error - the network name cannot be found, this is probably due to network problems.'? my friend says he could log in in the past.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:22 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:21 Plexa wrote:
Wait? Firefitst won that game? lolol I qq'd out of the stream in rage when it looked like he was losing yeah he won thanks to nice SCV snipes
Last just handled it poorly. He could've won that easily.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
oh grobyc got a stream up, nvm then
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uusee always works, just a little behind and with lousy chinese guys
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^ the chinese commentators are awesome >(
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On April 13 2010 20:26 konadora wrote:
oh grobyc got a stream up, nvm then
<3 you for trying!
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:27 writer22816 wrote:
^ the chinese commentators are awesome >(
It's true :3
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On April 13 2010 20:22 prototype. wrote:I bet KT Rolster's coach has fOrGG instead of Flash on his FPL
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On April 13 2010 20:22 prototype. wrote:I bet KT Rolster's coach has fOrGG instead of Flash on his FPL
Or he bet against his team.
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On April 13 2010 20:28 Doraemon wrote:
haha
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On April 13 2010 20:22 prototype. wrote:I bet KT Rolster's coach has fOrGG instead of Flash on his FPL
i know that i have
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On April 13 2010 20:30 Garnet wrote:Or he bet against his team.
hahahah even more funny :D
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I guess i kind of understand KT's decision to send forgg as he hasent been total shitballs lately but i dont understand STX. Why not send either kal, calm or hwasin who all have higher chances of beating forgg or flash who they probably thought was going to come out
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On April 13 2010 20:28 Doraemon wrote:
no, he LB'ed STX.Flash almost fucked him up so hes staying on the bench for ace game
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In the green corner, weighing 83 lbs, ForGG... and in the blue corner, weighing an impressive 87 lbs, shuttle.
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forgg the green terran at 7
shuttle the blue toss at 5
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On April 13 2010 20:30 Scaramanga wrote:
I guess i kind of understand KT's decision to send forgg as he hasent been total shitballs lately but i dont understand STX. Why not send either kal, calm or hwasin who all have higher chances of beating forgg or flash who they probably thought was going to come out
because Shuttle is a A-class player and all the others have other games this week?
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:30 Scaramanga wrote:
I guess i kind of understand KT's decision to send forgg as he hasent been total shitballs lately but i dont understand STX. Why not send either kal, calm or hwasin who all have higher chances of beating forgg or flash who they probably thought was going to come out
Calm's weakest matchup is vT, and Kal devoted all his time to practicing for Polaris which is a new map.
Shuttle's vT (all three of his matchups, actually) is solid. Not that bad of a choice. Not to mention no individual leagues to prepare for - Calm Kal Hwasin all do. Pretty important ones too.
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shuttle probably has a better chance than kal calm or hwasin
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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Why are people so fond of ForGG anyway?
I for one root for (P)Shuttle!
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uh oh, forgg doesnt notice the hidden probe. builds a starport.
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dropship for forgg
woah, shuttle's hidden probe gets 2 pylons in forggs main, to block off reinforcements from going out.
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SHUTLE PYLON BLOCKS THE WALL :D
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pimpest plays right there
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vultures from the dropship are kicking ass in shuttle's main. meanwhile, forgg advances his tanks on the nat and back home he is attacking the pylons.
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great play with that pylon wall
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pylon wall dies for shuttle. shuttle with shuttle/reaver chases the tanks away.
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forgg needs to expo 5 mins ago :/
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Nice pylon wall to cut off reinforcements. Never seen that tactic.
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forgg sieging 3 tanks outside shuttle's nat. takes out a pylon. finally starts a cc in his own nat.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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bothj players on 2 base now. forgg building yet another cc to float towards 6-7 oclock.
shuttle coming in with 2 shuttles loaded with zealots and a reaver, but they die to a wraith. shuttle looks displeased.
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BOOOOOOOOOO YA, ForGG baby!
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Nice timing with the wraith Forgg.
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lol, horrible targeting by the reaver.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
OH MY GOD FORGG
TWO WRAITH FUCKING GOSUUUUUUUUU
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pew pew, pew pew
wraiths for the win!
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oh, I had utorrent open. that explains the majority of the lag
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forgg's wraiths made the game even again.
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Major timing window open for fOrGG.
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shuttle builds a nexus at the top right corner, as well as at his nearby expo at 5.
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On April 13 2010 20:43 writer22816 wrote:
Major timing window open for fOrGG.
Forgg DID a timing push, but Shuttle's pylon block completely ruined it. The sniped shuttles made the game even again.
Shuttle with arbiters = no timing for terran
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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shuttle trying to push forgg back, but the tank line is deeeeeeeeeep
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that's a really long tank line.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
EPIC FAIL SCIENCE FACILITY LOLOLOL
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what a gay science facility.
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omg ForGG manner science facility -____-
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Sigh Forgg what the hell dude.
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forgg builds a cc at 6 oclock. sets up a mine walkk outside shuttle's base.
forgg seems to have build the science facitlity in his own choke, waiting for it to finish so he can lift.
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forgg got payed to loose so he blocks him self ?
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Forgg misses the 2 pylons that were there before.
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shuttle moving in to 6 oclock, 2 arbs and tons of goons. 1 stasis, but its not enough, has to back off, losing a lot of goons in this attack.
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shuttle breaks it???????????
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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And reinforcements flood in for forgg, in the nick of time too!
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o_o impressive push breaking from shuttle
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shuttle moving in once again, more stasis this time, but its not enough yet again, he once again backs off.
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The whole match was insane.
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Why do progamers insist on placing stasis in the frontline.
Terran want walls.
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oh man shuttle gonna win!
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2tank/3 vult drop at 1
tanks raped, it's not going to work
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Shuttle broke the push because forgg CUT SCVS in the beginning of the match.
His tech was way behind Shuttle's.
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forgg dropping at the top right expo, but an unlucky mine drag by a zealot takes out a tank. 3 goons close in and take out the 2nd tank.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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No vessels killed ForGG. Really shows how unforgiving TvP is. 2 Fact put him way behind in tech
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France2061 Posts
SHUTTLE MACRO > FORGG MACRO
Recall !
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wow, shuttle is fucking awesome...
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shuttle advancing on forggs nat. stasis freezes 3 tanks and a vult. recall follows inside forggs main. forgg has nothing to defend with. this looks like the end.
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this is it for forgg
dammit man
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fOrGG continues his history of epic openings into catastrophic failure, lol
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The statis then recall on ledge owned
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On April 13 2010 20:50 SubtleArt wrote:
No vessels killed ForGG. Really shows how unforgiving TvP is. 2 Fact put him way behind in tech
2 fact PLUS DROPSHIP.
Forgg cut so many scvs in the beginning.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
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good job KT coach! I'm sure the salary the KT pays you for your deep strategic thinking and your amazing ability to train your players is well justified.
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forgg gg's.
ktforgg loses. ktflash frowns.
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Really only ForGG can play this bad. Comeback from a big disadvantage only to completely blow it. Nice.
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KTF, what a waste of 6 pts haha
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No kidding. Shuttle is really good.
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forgg just screw my fantasy team and my LB streak
thanks dude
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Both LB and fantasy fail ;/
edit: what above ;/
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Forgg Clearly got payed to loose here, haha, he blocked HIM SELF IN hahaha
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ForGG wtf were you thinking KT gg.
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where does Flash learn to be so good? It sure isn't from the KT coaching staff, since everybody else sucks.
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Shuttle is paying off nicely for FPL. Too bad I lost some points on the Fox/Oz match though =[
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man, these "player x" was paid to lose since he did "stupid thing y" comments are going to get old fast.
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That was some failgg.
But Shuttle played really great though.
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On April 13 2010 20:51 Malinor wrote:
No kidding. Shuttle is really good.
sure is! hence...
On April 13 2010 20:34 foxmeep wrote:
shuttle probably has a better chance than kal calm or hwasin
in fact, i would pick shuttle over those 3 hands down to be honest.
edit: to vs a terran anyways
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lol at all the KT owners in fantasy
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Baa?21244 Posts
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Why are people blaming forgg for losing?
His only mistake was not noticing Shuttle's probe doing a pylon block. Otherwise his timing attack would have completely crushed Shuttle.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Honestly, that last game was really good (even though I wanted forgg to win !). It's games like that that make me hope and pray that SC never dies, it's still a far superior game in terms of excitement to SC2.
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I can't trade away KT Rolster fast enough. What was I thinking, that the coach would be able to somehow arrange the rest of the team to get 1 win so that Flash could finish up the rest.
And worse, from my blurry stream, the coach doesn't look disturbed at all.
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France2061 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
STXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!
XXXXXXXXXX
With Shuttle looking so strong, and even Bogus getting results, they're going to rock this R4. I mean, they literally have the two best Protoss right now.
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:53 Plexa wrote:Honestly, that last game was really good (even though I wanted forgg to win !). It's games like that that make me hope and pray that SC never dies, it's still a far superior game in terms of excitement to SC2.
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On April 13 2010 20:52 foxmeep wrote:sure is! hence... Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:34 foxmeep wrote:
shuttle probably has a better chance than kal calm or hwasin in fact, i would pick shuttle over those 3 hands down to be honest.
Why are you quoting yourself?
Anyway forgg didnt play overly bad there, he has this nack of getting into a got spot and not being able to finish the game and in trying to blunders majorly and loses, i would have thought after two years with flash he'd learn to expo everywhere and make the game as long as possible to have the best chance of winning, oh forgg
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On April 13 2010 20:50 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:50 SubtleArt wrote:
No vessels killed ForGG. Really shows how unforgiving TvP is. 2 Fact put him way behind in tech 2 fact PLUS DROPSHIP. Forgg cut so many scvs in the beginning.
Did he go Fact - Fact - Port?? Dam, you pretty much have to outright kill them with that build. ForGG deserves credit from transitioning so well from it though. It failed badly but his transition into Flash style 3 base was really solid.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote:
Why are people blaming forgg for losing?
His only mistake was not noticing Shuttle's probe doing a pylon block. Otherwise his timing attack would have completely crushed Shuttle.
Well, and also manner blocking himself with Scienve Facility lol P
But yeah, SHuttle is great. Honestly, he's probably top 3 Protoss at this point. His macro is just amazing - did you see how continuous his reinforcements were? i don't think any other Protoss could've held the third like that.
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On April 13 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote:
Why are people blaming forgg for losing?
His only mistake was not noticing Shuttle's probe doing a pylon block. Otherwise his timing attack would have completely crushed Shuttle.
and as if that wasnt enough, he decides to block himself again. forgg is truely special.
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I wish they would play hwasin in pl more -__-" oh well. at least team win gives him 1 point in FPL
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:55 JChen wrote:
I wish they would play hwasin in pl more -__-" oh well. at least team win gives him 1 point in FPL
Hwasin's busy planning his breakout into the Ro8 ^_^
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konadora
Singapore66248 Posts
KT can afford to lose 3 more games and still be at the top lol
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On April 13 2010 20:55 konadora wrote:
KT can afford to lose 3 more games and still be at the top lol
Yeah, but at the rate they are going #1 will be gone by the end of round 5.
The last two PL matches and the last four/five? WL matches they solely depended on Flash to win. It's 100% back to KTFlash.
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Thanks KT coaches for robbing a declining game's audience of it's spectator experience.
Tactical.
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On April 13 2010 20:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote:
Why are people blaming forgg for losing?
His only mistake was not noticing Shuttle's probe doing a pylon block. Otherwise his timing attack would have completely crushed Shuttle. Well, and also manner blocking himself with Scienve Facility lol P But yeah, SHuttle is great. Honestly, he's probably top 3 Protoss at this point. His macro is just amazing - did you see how continuous his reinforcements were? i don't think any other Protoss could've held the third like that.
i hope stx pays you for all the brown nosing you do
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:59 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 13 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote:
Why are people blaming forgg for losing?
His only mistake was not noticing Shuttle's probe doing a pylon block. Otherwise his timing attack would have completely crushed Shuttle. Well, and also manner blocking himself with Scienve Facility lol P But yeah, SHuttle is great. Honestly, he's probably top 3 Protoss at this point. His macro is just amazing - did you see how continuous his reinforcements were? i don't think any other Protoss could've held the third like that. i hope stx pays you for all the brown nosing you do
Kal is top Protoss, and Stork is no longer his consistent old self. Who's unarguably better than Shuttle?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:58 Demand2k wrote:
Thanks KT coaches for robbing a declining game's audience of it's spectator experience.
Tactical.
What? I don't know what game you were watching but that was tense as fuck LOL
Smart moves by KT imo. They know that they can't rely on Flash to take out PL (unlike WL) so they send out some other players to get experience so they have more options down the line. They've got the games to spare so why not?
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On April 13 2010 20:57 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:55 konadora wrote:
KT can afford to lose 3 more games and still be at the top lol Yeah, but at the rate they are going #1 will be gone by the end of round 5. The last two PL matches and the last four/five? WL matches they solely depended on Flash to win. It's 100% back to KTFlash.
Sad but true.
KT is one of the worst teams atm without flash, going something like 2-10 in their last games with one win being from today's firefist which was really wierd. (
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On April 13 2010 20:53 Plexa wrote:Honestly, that last game was really good (even though I wanted forgg to win !). It's games like that that make me hope and pray that SC never dies, it's still a far superior game in terms of excitement to SC2.
Yeah +1 to this.
And because fOrGG is fucking my fantasy >_>
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On April 13 2010 20:58 Demand2k wrote:
Thanks KT coaches for robbing a declining game's audience of it's spectator experience.
Tactical.
That's a little pessimistic. ForGG played extremely well. His transition from a failed all in was solid, and his push was well executed. Had he gone 1 fact expand he would have had vessel tech and emp out in a timely manner, and the game might have looked different.
As for Shuttle, that was really well push breaking and great arbiter use. Not the best game in the world but very entertaining. Its a lot better than anything ive seen from Sc2
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On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING.
i really hope you are getting paid lol
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On April 13 2010 20:55 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:52 foxmeep wrote:On April 13 2010 20:51 Malinor wrote:
No kidding. Shuttle is really good. sure is! hence... On April 13 2010 20:34 foxmeep wrote:
shuttle probably has a better chance than kal calm or hwasin in fact, i would pick shuttle over those 3 hands down to be honest. Why are you quoting yourself? Anyway forgg didnt play overly bad there, he has this nack of getting into a got spot and not being able to finish the game and in trying to blunders majorly and loses, i would have thought after two years with flash he'd learn to expo everywhere and make the game as long as possible to have the best chance of winning, oh forgg
makes me feel good when i'm right, of course. i can quote you too if you like.
On April 13 2010 20:30 Scaramanga wrote:
I guess i kind of understand KT's decision to send forgg as he hasent been total shitballs lately but i dont understand STX. Why not send either kal, calm or hwasin who all have higher chances of beating forgg or flash who they probably thought was going to come out
but seriously, i was just backing up my statement that i think shuttle is a quality player, no need for you to get defensive.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Baa?21244 Posts
On April 13 2010 21:03 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 19:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Calm played amazingly smart - his Overlord flew at an angle, so it saw the creep. Then Calm adjusted to make it look like the Overlord flew form the bottom, which basically tricked Hoejja and won Calm the game. AMAZING. i really hope you are getting paid lol
I call it like it is. The fact that it's my favorite team just makes it better for me.
You might as well say everyone who says Flash is the best Terran right now is brown-nosing...?
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try sending out barracks. maybe hell win some games. instead of sending hoejja to lose everytime.
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Glad to see Shuttle in ace match .
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France2061 Posts
On April 13 2010 20:58 Demand2k wrote:
Thanks KT coaches for robbing a declining game's audience of it's spectator experience.
Tactical.
I like how your thought process went from "my favorite team loses" to "gg SC is over." Overdramatic?
From a purely materialistic point of view, what made that last game all the more exciting is that I replaced forGG with Shuttle in my fantasy team at the last moment. That stroke of brilliance makes up for me replacing Effort with Bisu on my anti.
FPL -- making your wins even deeper.
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im so torn. my fpl did great today but kt lost
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KT... wtf were you thinking
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Why on earth do KT insist on sending ForGG out as Ace. All opponents know that Flash is by far the most likely so they all practice sniping Terran, if you then send out ForGG its like feeding the sniper with a nice friendly little lamb. Hell even Hoejja would have been a better choice if they want to mix it up, at least he has good ZvP. And to do this against the one team they really need to beat? I'm thoroughly disgusted!
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On April 13 2010 21:27 HopLight wrote:
Why on earth do KT insist on sending ForGG out as Ace. All opponents know that Flash is by far the most likely so they all practice sniping Terran, if you then send out ForGG its like feeding the sniper with a nice friendly little lamb. Hell even Hoejja would have been a better choice if they want to mix it up, at least he has good ZvP. And to do this against the one team they really need to beat? I'm thoroughly disgusted!
Have you looked at the overall stats for proleague? KT is so far in first that it's disgusting. They don't "need" to beat anyone right now; as long as they keep performing half-decently they will get first place for playoffs. That's presumably why they went ahead with sending out fOrGG, despite the fact that it would likely lose them the match.
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We've seen it before with Killer that sending out a player for ace can help build their confidence (in ForGG's case, rebuild) and helps in the longterm. I don't know why some of you KT fans think you know better than the coaches in this case. KT is already far ahead its no big deal to try and give other players a go rather than continuing to rely on a single person. The team you lost to clearly shows that having multiple choices for ace is a good thing, stops your team being 100% predictable too.
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On April 13 2010 21:46 infinity2k9 wrote:
We've seen it before with Killer that sending out a player for ace can help build their confidence (in ForGG's case, rebuild) and helps in the longterm. I don't know why some of you KT fans think you know better than the coaches in this case. KT is already far ahead its no big deal to try and give other players a go rather than continuing to rely on a single person. The team you lost to clearly shows that having multiple choices for ace is a good thing.
Killer needed two rounds to start shining. KT only has two rounds left. And if they lose all their aces they are barely in the playoffs.
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How can you not play Flash for Ace -_-
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On April 13 2010 21:57 lavion wrote:
How can you not play Flash for Ace -_-
OSL, most likely.
(Damn hyvaa, indirectly stealing a Proleague win from KT!)
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omfg
what's KT doing???
and how the hell could forgg lose
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yes, basically kt can go 0-12 this round and still be rank6 overall.
ofc you never know, aces could go 20-0 in their next games, but kt has a pretty secure play off spot.
STILL THEY SUCK AND I WOULD LIQUIBET WOONGJIN OVER THEM ANYTIME!
if i would be kt coach i would only send out: flash, firefist, 815, (luxury), sometimes maybe barracks or forgg, depending on who has the better sniping build.
kt toss always look glorious when they lose, but that doesnt change the fact that they always lose.
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how the fuck did they not send out flash
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Ah KT... But it's okay given that they didn't play horribly... Mwahaha Flash beat Kal!! Do it again in the OSL!
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i think someone paid forgg to lose :| j/k
nice match flash !
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There's a reason its not KTForGG, and this is it.
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On April 13 2010 21:27 HopLight wrote:
Why on earth do KT insist on sending ForGG out as Ace. All opponents know that Flash is by far the most likely so they all practice sniping Terran, if you then send out ForGG its like feeding the sniper with a nice friendly little lamb. Hell even Hoejja would have been a better choice if they want to mix it up, at least he has good ZvP. And to do this against the one team they really need to beat? I'm thoroughly disgusted!
You can't always send Flash it's not fair on him. Why put pressure on Flash (he would need to practice specifically on that map) when you don't even need to win.
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I love how these same KT fans also bitch about Flash having to carry the team.
Kt actually can afford to experiment with other Ace choices right now. Sending ForGG for Ace is fine. If anything, bitch about them always sending Hoejja on Judgment Day, or not using Stats or Violet for at least one match.
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A bit annoyed at KT using a very subpar line up but we're still drastically in the lead so I guess it's okay.
I actually don't mind an ace choice of ForGG since Flash is busy with leagues, but it still seems funky not to send either Violet or Stats, especially when one of the players is Bogus, a guy I can see either top KT toss taking down handily, not to mention being on match point.
Maybe they were expecting Toss so they sent Hoejja, and STX expected that so STX sent a terran. Who knows.
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On April 14 2010 00:10 ndralcasid wrote:
I love how these same KT fans also bitch about Flash having to carry the team.
Kt actually can afford to experiment with other Ace choices right now. Sending ForGG for Ace is fine. If anything, bitch about them always sending Hoejja on Judgment Day, or not using Stats or Violet for at least one match.
That's my gripe. No Violet or Stats... WTF MAN
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On April 13 2010 21:27 HopLight wrote:
Why on earth do KT insist on sending ForGG out as Ace. All opponents know that Flash is by far the most likely so they all practice sniping Terran, if you then send out ForGG its like feeding the sniper with a nice friendly little lamb. Hell even Hoejja would have been a better choice if they want to mix it up, at least he has good ZvP. And to do this against the one team they really need to beat? I'm thoroughly disgusted!
Sounds a lot like Oz sending out Killer when people pratice for JD.
The difference is that Forgg is actually good.
If KT wants to test this shit out, now is the time... tho it's clear what kind of team they are without flash playing twice.
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On April 13 2010 21:57 lavion wrote:
How can you not play Flash for Ace -_-
Ace match was on Grand Line, I don't think Flash has practiced much on the new map since he's busy practicing for OSL.
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On April 14 2010 01:36 amazingoopah wrote:
where's violet??? In the shitter since he is awful right now
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I had a dream that July played and lost the Ace match to Flash, and everyone was really sad.
Much to my relief, that didn't happen, as KTFlash sent out the one-matchup-wonder ForGG (whom I have clearly overvalued) instead of that one guy who's really good and wins things. Shuttle delivers! Aaand it looks like Kal is still trapped in his A-class box, unable to beat another Boss.
KT, instead of playing ForGG, Stats, Flash, and Violet and crossing their fingers every match, played two zergs and Tempest. *shrugs* What could possibly go wrong?
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So i log on today and look at the match. FORGG AS ACE DOESN"TMAKE SENSEEE
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On April 14 2010 00:19 LunarDestiny wrote:
Forgg as Ace, really?
srsly man, someone was smoking something that day
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Shuttles picking up steam
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well.. this was unexpected
anyone know why Flash wasnt ace?
OH YEAH KT COACHING IS HORRIBLE
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IMO Flash without practice is still better than Forgg with practice.
COACHES. Stop trying to prove that you guys did anything well. All you're doing is proving over and over and over again that you did NOTHING and FLASH was the ONLY reason for the WL win. Just give him the team earnings and beg Flash for money. ACKNOWLEDGE that Flash is the only thing keeping KT afloat, and that he is the only reason you guys are still on the payroll.
Sigh. KT. Breaks my heart.
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If Flash were to play on the Ace match, then he would have had to practice on Polaris Rhapsody and Grand Line, both two brand new maps. This on top of a absolutely crucial TvP he has to play the next day against Kal for the OSL. I'm sad KT lost, but I like the fact that they respected Flash's practice schedule so that he could prepare a bit more for the OSL. (I suppose this is also 100% applies to STX's ace choices as well.)
On a side note, I think that's why both Flash and Kal ended up playing on Polaris Rhapsody, because I think that's where both coaches figured they would have the least chances of running into each other. If that's true, interesting how that ended up.
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Naw not sending Flash for ace is fine. but ya as the others said where were Stats and maybe violet? It makes me really wonder what happened to stats. He was doing super good previously but now is losing playtime to Hoejja Tempest and Firefist. What gives.
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Lol, so much for my Fantasy team strategy of getting 1 point KTR players and trading them later. JUST SEND FLASH!
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France2061 Posts
Another thing about Flash not playing the ace game: it's not only because KT is pretty much guaranteed to reach the playoffs, as other posters have already explained, but also because, more importantly, the playoffs aren't an end in themselves. If KT wants to have a chance at actually beating teams like STX or Stars and winning the Grand Final, they have to develop and improve their roster. The playoffs and finals don't use the Winners League format, so Flash alone won't be able to carry the team.
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People are too quick to jump on the "omg its KTFlash again!" bandwagon. Half of R3 and first two matches of R4... ok. I really feel like ForGG is coming back into form also. Strong TvZ, decent TvT, and when he practices, a strong TvP. Transitioning out of 2 fact port is pretty difficult... and he still almost won the game...
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On April 14 2010 06:48 Vasoline73 wrote:
People are too quick to jump on the "omg its KTFlash again!" bandwagon. Half of R3 and first two matches of R4... ok. I really feel like ForGG is coming back into form also. Strong TvZ, decent TvT, and when he practices, a strong TvP. Transitioning out of 2 fact port is pretty difficult... and he still almost won the game...
or maybe you were too quick to jump on the "omg KT actually has good players" bandwagon?
forgg is getting better yes, in return Violet and Stats get worse
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I perfectly understand why Forgg was sent as ace besides .
1) Lets consider what KT thought were STX's ace choices: 45% Kal, 45% Calm, maybe 10% Shuttle. All 3 own tosses like their bitch and Stats/Violet has really mediocre PvZ and PvP as of now if you look at records or watch games.
2)Now lets consider FireFist and Hojjea. FireFist could not beat Effort in ZvZ twice in a row with a BO advantage. Now you want him to take out Kal's PvZ scrubs or Calm who won a starleague with ZvZ? Plus he blows. Then there is Hojjea. When was the last time he won a game? His recent losses has been at the hands of Calm and Shuttle. Dude lost to Nada for god sakes. Almost as bad as when Killer lost to Boxer.
3) Now obviously Kt wanted to train the rest of the roster so Flash is off limits, so the only other player who is doing well and has a chance is Forgg. Calm is sucking at ZvT but somehow only brings A-game vs. Flash. Kal just lost to Flash, so STX probably will not send him thinking Flash is coming for ace. And Forgg's style is much different from Flash in that he relies 90% on timing pushes, so the sniper will most likely have not prepared for that.
So in summary besides Flash, anyone else would have been a retarded choice to take on STX ace choices.
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On April 13 2010 20:14 Holgerius wrote:Forgg for ace please! Someone stream!
lol, regretting that request?
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On April 14 2010 06:59 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 06:48 Vasoline73 wrote:
People are too quick to jump on the "omg its KTFlash again!" bandwagon. Half of R3 and first two matches of R4... ok. I really feel like ForGG is coming back into form also. Strong TvZ, decent TvT, and when he practices, a strong TvP. Transitioning out of 2 fact port is pretty difficult... and he still almost won the game... or maybe you were too quick to jump on the "omg KT actually has good players" bandwagon? forgg is getting better yes, in return Violet and Stats get worse
I've always tried to be wary about KT's preformance in R1, 2 and start of 3. Even when Violet, Stats, ForGG and Hoejja preform well, you can sense their inconsistency and it's rare that you see a perfectly clean game from any of them.
I feel like KT lacks a fighting spirit. I really don't feel like Violet, Stats or Firefist are giving a 100% in the practice room. Maybe they are just slacking off because they have a big lead? I don't know, but it's worrying.
During the time Violet was doing really well, it was because of the attention given to him by H.O.T-Forever. You can read the interview about it here. H.O.T-Forever really dedicated time to helping Violet improve as a player, in other ways than just mass practicing. I feel like that level of coaching must have stopped for some reason because you can see it now in Violet's decreasing in game skill recently.
ForGG on the other hand is kind of different in the sense that he seems to be trying hard now, he just lacks game sense in TvT and TvP, which is why he's most dangerous when he can analyze and prepare for his opponents before hand. He needs the build to overcome his shakyness. However, if someone was dedicating time to helping him like Violet got help, maybe ForGG could be KT's second ace player. I think he's like Leta but with worse TvT and better TvZ. *imo* and that he just again, is kind of lacking the fighting spirit he needs to clinch the games he needs to win. *However, ForGG has been saying in interviews that he's getting his sense back, so I have a big amount of hope in him, especially with his OSL run*
KT's biggest issue *imo* and one that's kind of overlooked right now is losing Luxury. Does Luxury suck big balls sometimes? Yes. Did Luxury throw games? *we dont "know" yet*. But in clutch situations, unlike the rest of KT (minus Flash) Luxury actually shows some ability to succeed. I still remember his WL performance against Fantasy and Best last playoffs... his play v Leta in the MSL... v Flash in the OSL. What I'm trying to say is, I don't doubt Luxury would suck it up big time in Ro4 and 5 even if he still was on the team... but in the playoffs, I think KT without Luxury is missing a clutch strong player in all MU.
My biggest fear for KT right now is that they are going to be in the grand finals, or in the match before the grandfinals (winner advances to GF) and the score is going to be something like
2-3
KT > other team
KT < other team
KT < other team
KT < other team
Flash > other team
???? vs other team average guy 6th set
ACE
going into the 6th set where KT needs the next player to win for them to set up the ace match with Flash. Is there any player on KT who anyone would feel confident about playing that 6th set? Right now, not really. But I feel like that's where Luxury could have been strong for KT. As of now, I see most of the team failing in this spot and it's not going to be pretty for us KTR fans.
Stats is too inexperienced
Violet has been playing like shit and constantly 12 nexus'ing PvT(I feel like it's only a matter of time before he gets blind BBS'ed in an important match)
Firefist is bad in ZvP, kind of OK in ZvT but would still lose, and 40/60 in a ZvZ.
ForGG COULD be clutch by the time finals come around, but I wouldn't put faith in him in a TvT. I feel like in a TvP or Z he could seal the deal though.
Hoejja has been so bad with his midgame recently in all MU and sucks in ZvZ.
Luxury is gone.
815 isn't on Bluestorm.
So.. I agree that KT has a problem right now, but we've already seen what happens when the team is clicking. They are all good players when they are prepared, especially ForGG Stats and Violet... but often times they seem like they don't care that much about winning. I don't see the fire in those 2 P's.. and in ForGG it often doesn't come up unless its an individual league.
What KT needs to do in the next two rounds in my opinion is to get the coaches to focus on Violet, Hoejja and ForGG harder, help Stats play more important matches for experience, and figure out the Luxury situation. Maybe give Flash a break. Letting ForGG play the ace match tonight was pretty important in my opinion. KTR has breathing room to try and improve their lineup and they should use it wisely.
Overall KT is kind of weak right now, but I definitely don't feel like they don't have the potential. In R1 and 2 the team took home games where Flash didn't win any of the matches, and had Violet go 2-0 in ace matches. If they can get back to that and improve it with the new ForGG (perhaps get Lux back if he's innocent) then KT is definitely the best team and has the best ace. We'll see. The ball is definitely in the coaches hands at this point.
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On April 14 2010 08:14 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 06:59 SuperArc wrote:On April 14 2010 06:48 Vasoline73 wrote:
People are too quick to jump on the "omg its KTFlash again!" bandwagon. Half of R3 and first two matches of R4... ok. I really feel like ForGG is coming back into form also. Strong TvZ, decent TvT, and when he practices, a strong TvP. Transitioning out of 2 fact port is pretty difficult... and he still almost won the game... or maybe you were too quick to jump on the "omg KT actually has good players" bandwagon? forgg is getting better yes, in return Violet and Stats get worse 2-3KT > other team KT < other teamKT < other teamKT < other teamFlash > other team ???? vs other team average guy 6th set ACE
welcome to OZ!
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On April 14 2010 08:26 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 08:14 Vasoline73 wrote:On April 14 2010 06:59 SuperArc wrote:On April 14 2010 06:48 Vasoline73 wrote:
People are too quick to jump on the "omg its KTFlash again!" bandwagon. Half of R3 and first two matches of R4... ok. I really feel like ForGG is coming back into form also. Strong TvZ, decent TvT, and when he practices, a strong TvP. Transitioning out of 2 fact port is pretty difficult... and he still almost won the game... or maybe you were too quick to jump on the "omg KT actually has good players" bandwagon? forgg is getting better yes, in return Violet and Stats get worse 2-3KT > other team KT < other teamKT < other teamKT < other teamFlash > other team ???? vs other team average guy 6th set ACE welcome to OZ!
Kind of... but KT used to have Luxury for this situation and his track record in PL is good even when you look back to his time at Hite/OGN. So really, this "who for the 6th set?" situation is kind of new imo.
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On April 14 2010 08:05 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 20:14 Holgerius wrote:Forgg for ace please! Someone stream! lol, regretting that request?
Asking for a stream? Nah, I like watching the games.
+ Show Spoiler + I actually still think it was a great choice, despite the loss, to let Flash focus more on his important OSL game tomorrow instead of preparing an ace match.
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KT will recoup. They did great in R1, mediocre R2, great R3, and now they'll go something like 6-5 R4, which will light the fire where they'll go 9-2 or better for R5.
They'll probably be first or second seed when all is said and done and I put them as a favorite over whoever has a chance at 1st seed (MBC/STX) in playoffs. The challenge will probably come from whoever takes 3rd seed to fight KT, I think. Probably woongjin, possibly SKT.
If it's SKT then we lose. =(
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Russian Federation327 Posts
KT should buy Jaedong. He is underpaid at his current team and KT doesn't have descent zergs anymore.
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I don't understand why KT fans complain that Flash wasn't sent out for ace. He has been carrying his team for a while now. If they keep using him he will burn out again and semi-slump. He has an important game soon and I prefer him winning it. KT has a huge lead and one extra loss won't change anything...
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Well KT fans specifically obviously want KT to win more than they want Flash to win another OSL.
Flash fans want the opposite.
Fans of both for separate and conjoining reasons are conflicted, like me. =(
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On April 14 2010 09:38 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Well KT fans specifically obviously want KT to win more than they want Flash to win another OSL.
Flash fans want the opposite.
Fans of both for separate and conjoining reasons are conflicted, like me. =(
I am a huge fan of KT. But I really think losing one game is not a big issue. Other players should just get their shit together and start playing better so they don't have to rely on Flash to win two games in each match.
If they want to win proleague (which I really really want to happen obviously) they need more than just Flash. Relying on him so much now will get back on KT in the playoffs.
And how can you be a KT fan without being a Flash fan. The guy has been carying the team for over 2 years. Flash is KT and KT is Flash!
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KT should stop messing around and just use flash for every ace match.
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On April 14 2010 11:09 Lebesgue wrote:
And how can you be a KT fan without being a Flash fan. The guy has been carying the team for over 2 years. Flash is KT and KT is Flash!
Mantoss and Nal_Ra say 'sup.
(not that I'm not a Flash fan, but 80% of KT fans are really just Flash fans)
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Flash needs to be well reseted so he can take OSL/MSL titles home
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On April 14 2010 15:28 ndralcasid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 11:09 Lebesgue wrote:
And how can you be a KT fan without being a Flash fan. The guy has been carying the team for over 2 years. Flash is KT and KT is Flash! Mantoss and Nal_Ra say 'sup. (not that I'm not a Flash fan, but 80% of KT fans are really just Flash fans)
Mantoss and Nal_Ra are no longer in KT. I love both of them but this is time when KT is called KTFlash for a reason. And how can you be supporting a team without supporting any of the players individually?
What wouldn't make any sense is not being a Flash supporter if you cheer for KT. If Flash loses KT loses, so if you are KT fan you better pray Flash will win.
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Actually, if you are unilaterally in support of KT for pure proleague purposes then you might want Flash to drop out of leagues early, so he can then have full practice time for PL.
Imagine if Flash weren't in OSL. He would've been fully able to practice for ace and, considering how close Forgg made it with a subpar TvP, who here thinks Shuttle would've taken that game against a prepared Flash, especially with his recent TvP? I think not.
But few if any KT fans are that cynically in support of KT winning to the point where they hope flash loses individual leagues.
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On April 15 2010 12:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Actually, if you are unilaterally in support of KT for pure proleague purposes then you might want Flash to drop out of leagues early, so he can then have full practice time for PL.
Imagine if Flash weren't in OSL. He would've been fully able to practice for ace and, considering how close Forgg made it with a subpar TvP, who here thinks Shuttle would've taken that game against a prepared Flash, especially with his recent TvP? I think not.
But few if any KT fans are that cynically in support of KT winning to the point where they hope flash loses individual leagues.
This is why I wouldn't really mind if he dropped out in the OSL and MSL. Obviously it's better if he can win all 3, but I think PL is the most important for him and his team.
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On April 13 2010 20:22 prototype. wrote:I bet KT Rolster's coach has fOrGG instead of Flash on his FPL
LOL. Then he should still send Flash so fOrGG gets the point for the team win rather than nothing for failing -_-
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KT is nothing without Flash
that's why they can only win WL... sad but true
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KT will unlikely send Flash first
I guess these thing reall ARE hard to predict
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On April 15 2010 13:10 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 12:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Actually, if you are unilaterally in support of KT for pure proleague purposes then you might want Flash to drop out of leagues early, so he can then have full practice time for PL.
Imagine if Flash weren't in OSL. He would've been fully able to practice for ace and, considering how close Forgg made it with a subpar TvP, who here thinks Shuttle would've taken that game against a prepared Flash, especially with his recent TvP? I think not.
But few if any KT fans are that cynically in support of KT winning to the point where they hope flash loses individual leagues. This is why I wouldn't really mind if he dropped out in the OSL and MSL. Obviously it's better if he can win all 3, but I think PL is the most important for him and his team. Even in their current state, they will get a fairly good playoff seed. If KT loses all their games this round, they are still 6th, I believe. Flash will always be this unstoppable anchor, barring any absurd slumps, so these games are less meaningful to KT than Flash's individual leagues. It's great that the team is finally recognizing this.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/plNamdaemun.png)
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![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/JudgmentDay.jpg?t=1270863788)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/Roadrunner.jpg?t=1270863803)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/GrandLine.jpg?t=1270863777)
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