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[SWL] CJ Entus vs STX Soul - Page 26

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-27 07:27:31
February 27 2010 07:27 GMT
#501
seriously that was a very worthless post. Gj undermining the SH's and the rest of CJ's ability.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
February 27 2010 07:29 GMT
#502
On February 27 2010 16:24 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:09 lFrostmourne wrote:
skyhigh has gone from reverse all-killing hwaseung in the previous winners league finals and not to mention killing jd many times during that period... to this


Reverse all killing Hwaseung isn't really anything special when you actually pay attention to the actual details. Skyhigh beat Jaedong's 4pool, crushed two Oz protoss players who weren't Backho, and then played the only matchup he's actually good at.

Many of the CJ cheese builds used to snipe are probably Much's builds because I seriously doubt guys like Skyhigh are even smart enough to dream of using the floating barracks trick + fake bunker rush against Jaedong. Without Much, they've lost much of their sniping ability and thus are a pretty weak team since the vast majority of players are pretty much autolose in certain matchups and they lack a solid ace player like Jaedong or Flash.
it was special, it was the damn finals. talk about being clutch
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
February 27 2010 07:39 GMT
#503
(P)Spear and (P)Young.

Honestly yeah it was clutch but come on, it was Spear and Young. The most impressive thing he did was not fail to nerves, and I'm saying this as a fan of both teams.
KizZBG
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
u gotta skate8152 Posts
February 27 2010 07:40 GMT
#504
oh wow CJ totally sucking this WL
eSTRO for life | #2 Sea.Really fan! | #1 GosI[Flying] fan! | Clide - best SC2 terran!
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
February 27 2010 07:42 GMT
#505
Sending out Movie against Kal the third best PvPer?

YAY CJ COACH!
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
February 27 2010 07:42 GMT
#506
I'm disappointed in Skyhigh
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
February 27 2010 07:44 GMT
#507
Has the loss of Savior got to their nerves?
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
February 27 2010 07:46 GMT
#508
On February 27 2010 16:44 dukethegold wrote:
Has the loss of Savior got to their nerves?

Considering how bad they were doing to the WL before Savior was announced to be removed as Captain and as an A-teamer, I'd say the "loss" of Savior has nothing to do with tonight's performance.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
February 27 2010 07:49 GMT
#509
On February 27 2010 16:39 Kyuukyuu wrote:
(P)Spear and (P)Young.

Honestly yeah it was clutch but come on, it was Spear and Young. The most impressive thing he did was not fail to nerves, and I'm saying this as a fan of both teams.


doesn't matter. The fact that Spear and Young are playing in a Finals match says a lot about the atmosphere at the time. Stop trying to discredit the guy.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
February 27 2010 07:57 GMT
#510
On February 27 2010 16:49 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:39 Kyuukyuu wrote:
(P)Spear and (P)Young.

Honestly yeah it was clutch but come on, it was Spear and Young. The most impressive thing he did was not fail to nerves, and I'm saying this as a fan of both teams.


doesn't matter. The fact that Spear and Young are playing in a Finals match says a lot about the atmosphere at the time. Stop trying to discredit the guy.

Skyhigh is doing a pretty good job of discrediting himself.
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
TI-Nspire CAS
Profile Joined January 2010
Brunei Darussalam10 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-27 08:14:58
February 27 2010 07:57 GMT
#511
On February 27 2010 16:29 We Are Here wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:24 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:09 lFrostmourne wrote:
skyhigh has gone from reverse all-killing hwaseung in the previous winners league finals and not to mention killing jd many times during that period... to this


Reverse all killing Hwaseung isn't really anything special when you actually pay attention to the actual details. Skyhigh beat Jaedong's 4pool, crushed two Oz protoss players who weren't Backho, and then played the only matchup he's actually good at.

Many of the CJ cheese builds used to snipe are probably Much's builds because I seriously doubt guys like Skyhigh are even smart enough to dream of using the floating barracks trick + fake bunker rush against Jaedong. Without Much, they've lost much of their sniping ability and thus are a pretty weak team since the vast majority of players are pretty much autolose in certain matchups and they lack a solid ace player like Jaedong or Flash.
it was special, it was the damn finals. talk about being clutch


Yeah and the Oz players, Hiya especially, weren't under similar conditions. Once Skyhigh got rid of Jaedong, who 4 pooled, it was game considering he would either play scrubs or against a terran who is much weaker than him at TvT.

On February 27 2010 16:49 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:39 Kyuukyuu wrote:
(P)Spear and (P)Young.

Honestly yeah it was clutch but come on, it was Spear and Young. The most impressive thing he did was not fail to nerves, and I'm saying this as a fan of both teams.


doesn't matter. The fact that Spear and Young are playing in a Finals match says a lot about the atmosphere at the time. Stop trying to discredit the guy.


It does matter because the Oz players were in a similar situation, especially Hiya. Imagine the pressure Hiya had when he had to play one of the best TvTers in a matchup he's generally been pretty poor at.

On February 27 2010 16:27 Ace wrote:
seriously that was a very worthless post. Gj undermining the SH's and the rest of CJ's ability.


I really don't think so. Their current lineup does better in normal proleague than Winner's League since you actually know who you are playing in normal proleague and thus can prepare accordingly.

Let's look at the big three of CJ:

Movie is better than the majority of protoss players at PvZ but is pretty ordinary at PvT and PvP. OK you can bring the EVER OSL example here but he had a pretty easy route to the finals. In the Ro16, all he had to do was beat Go.go and Pusan to get into he Ro8. In the Ro8 he had to beat Zero who is not only extremely streaky but also prone to choking extremely hard in high pressure situations. In the Ro4 he had to beat Shine who has the worst hive tech play out of all the A team zergs.

Skyhigh is one of the best TvTers but is extremely shit in TvP and TvZ. If your team has a good zerg or protoss player, just send him out and Skyhigh will pretty much lose automatically.

Effort is a solid ace option but doesn't even compare to the likes of Jaedong or Flash. He's slumping too and the fact that all zergs basically play ZvZ well these days means to get rid of him you just throw all the zergs you have at him.

Yeah, you have Iris (who is far too aggressive), Savior (a really watered down Effort these days), and Hydra and Snow (both are no way near as good as Effort or Movie) but you can't send all this depth out because there's only 7 sets max in Winner's League and 5 sets max in normal proleague.

They're doing extremely badly in Winner's League because not only have they lost most of their sniping ability, most of their players are extremely easy to snipe assuming your proleague team has good players of all three matchups.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
February 27 2010 08:05 GMT
#512
On February 27 2010 16:57 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:29 We Are Here wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:24 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:09 lFrostmourne wrote:
skyhigh has gone from reverse all-killing hwaseung in the previous winners league finals and not to mention killing jd many times during that period... to this


Reverse all killing Hwaseung isn't really anything special when you actually pay attention to the actual details. Skyhigh beat Jaedong's 4pool, crushed two Oz protoss players who weren't Backho, and then played the only matchup he's actually good at.

Many of the CJ cheese builds used to snipe are probably Much's builds because I seriously doubt guys like Skyhigh are even smart enough to dream of using the floating barracks trick + fake bunker rush against Jaedong. Without Much, they've lost much of their sniping ability and thus are a pretty weak team since the vast majority of players are pretty much autolose in certain matchups and they lack a solid ace player like Jaedong or Flash.
it was special, it was the damn finals. talk about being clutch


Yeah and the Oz players, Hiya especially, weren't under similar conditions. Once Skyhigh got rid of Jaedong, who 4 pooled, it was game considering he would either play scrubs or against a terran who is much weaker than him at TvT.

Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:49 Ace wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:39 Kyuukyuu wrote:
(P)Spear and (P)Young.

Honestly yeah it was clutch but come on, it was Spear and Young. The most impressive thing he did was not fail to nerves, and I'm saying this as a fan of both teams.


doesn't matter. The fact that Spear and Young are playing in a Finals match says a lot about the atmosphere at the time. Stop trying to discredit the guy.


It does matter because the Oz players were in a similar situation, especially Hiya. Imagine the pressure Hiya had when he had to play one of the best TvTers in a matchup he's generally been pretty poor at.

Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:27 Ace wrote:
seriously that was a very worthless post. Gj undermining the SH's and the rest of CJ's ability.


I really don't think so. Their current lineup does better in normal proleague than Winner's League since you actually know who you are playing in normal proleague and thus can prepare accordingly.

Let's look at the big three of CJ:

Movie is better than the majority of protoss players at PvZ but is pretty ordinary at PvT and PvP. OK you can bring the EVER OSL example here but he had a pretty easy route to the finals. In the Ro16, all he had to do was beat Go.go and Pusan to get into he Ro8. In the Ro8 he had to beat Zero who is not only extremely streaky but also prone to choking extremely hard in high pressure situations. In the Ro4 he had to beat Shine who has the worst hive tech play out of all the A team zergs.

Skyhigh is one of the best TvTers but is extremely shit in TvP and TvZ. If your team has a good zerg or protoss player, just send him out and Skyhigh will pretty much lose automatically.

Effort is a solid ace option but doesn't even compare to the likes of Jaedong or Flash. He's slumping too and the fact that all zergs basically play ZvZ well these days means to get rid of him you just throw all the zergs you have at him.

They're doing extremely badly in Winner's League because not only have they lost most of their sniping ability, most of their players are extremely easy to snipe assuming your proleague team has good players of all three matchups.


Movie defeated Shine before it got even to high tech. Do not discredit his win over the destroyer of both Bisu AND Stork ON THE SAME MAPS.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
TI-Nspire CAS
Profile Joined January 2010
Brunei Darussalam10 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-27 08:16:53
February 27 2010 08:12 GMT
#513
On February 27 2010 17:05 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 16:57 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:29 We Are Here wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:24 TI-Nspire CAS wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:09 lFrostmourne wrote:
skyhigh has gone from reverse all-killing hwaseung in the previous winners league finals and not to mention killing jd many times during that period... to this


Reverse all killing Hwaseung isn't really anything special when you actually pay attention to the actual details. Skyhigh beat Jaedong's 4pool, crushed two Oz protoss players who weren't Backho, and then played the only matchup he's actually good at.

Many of the CJ cheese builds used to snipe are probably Much's builds because I seriously doubt guys like Skyhigh are even smart enough to dream of using the floating barracks trick + fake bunker rush against Jaedong. Without Much, they've lost much of their sniping ability and thus are a pretty weak team since the vast majority of players are pretty much autolose in certain matchups and they lack a solid ace player like Jaedong or Flash.
it was special, it was the damn finals. talk about being clutch


Yeah and the Oz players, Hiya especially, weren't under similar conditions. Once Skyhigh got rid of Jaedong, who 4 pooled, it was game considering he would either play scrubs or against a terran who is much weaker than him at TvT.

On February 27 2010 16:49 Ace wrote:
On February 27 2010 16:39 Kyuukyuu wrote:
(P)Spear and (P)Young.

Honestly yeah it was clutch but come on, it was Spear and Young. The most impressive thing he did was not fail to nerves, and I'm saying this as a fan of both teams.


doesn't matter. The fact that Spear and Young are playing in a Finals match says a lot about the atmosphere at the time. Stop trying to discredit the guy.


It does matter because the Oz players were in a similar situation, especially Hiya. Imagine the pressure Hiya had when he had to play one of the best TvTers in a matchup he's generally been pretty poor at.

On February 27 2010 16:27 Ace wrote:
seriously that was a very worthless post. Gj undermining the SH's and the rest of CJ's ability.


I really don't think so. Their current lineup does better in normal proleague than Winner's League since you actually know who you are playing in normal proleague and thus can prepare accordingly.

Let's look at the big three of CJ:

Movie is better than the majority of protoss players at PvZ but is pretty ordinary at PvT and PvP. OK you can bring the EVER OSL example here but he had a pretty easy route to the finals. In the Ro16, all he had to do was beat Go.go and Pusan to get into he Ro8. In the Ro8 he had to beat Zero who is not only extremely streaky but also prone to choking extremely hard in high pressure situations. In the Ro4 he had to beat Shine who has the worst hive tech play out of all the A team zergs.

Skyhigh is one of the best TvTers but is extremely shit in TvP and TvZ. If your team has a good zerg or protoss player, just send him out and Skyhigh will pretty much lose automatically.

Effort is a solid ace option but doesn't even compare to the likes of Jaedong or Flash. He's slumping too and the fact that all zergs basically play ZvZ well these days means to get rid of him you just throw all the zergs you have at him.

They're doing extremely badly in Winner's League because not only have they lost most of their sniping ability, most of their players are extremely easy to snipe assuming your proleague team has good players of all three matchups.


Movie defeated Shine before it got even to high tech. Do not discredit his win over the destroyer of both Bisu AND Stork ON THE SAME MAPS.


Oh please, if you actually watched Stork from the start you should know that Stork loses PvZs in the dumbest ways possible.

As for Bisu, the guy is obviously slumping hard. Heck, he can't even beat Killer right now and that's pretty bad.

I'm going to damn well discredit his wins against Shine. After Shine's wins against Stork and Bisu, it was extremely obvious his later game macro was poor and totally depended on all ins. Unlike Stork or Bisu, neither had the benefit of hindsight like Movie did.
snowdrift
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France2061 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-27 08:18:14
February 27 2010 08:12 GMT
#514
He's mostly right. The top CJ players are too specialized at this point. That's good for proleague but hurts in WL when opposing teams will just send someone in their worst matchup to take them down. And Movie was always overrated -- his PvZ is mostly semi all-ins off of two bases that work well against greedy zergs. In all other respects he's terribly sloppy.
NaDa. Our Lord and sAviOr shall return. Learn to nydus you scrub
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-27 09:18:18
February 27 2010 09:00 GMT
#515
On February 27 2010 17:12 snowdrift86 wrote:
He's mostly right. The top CJ players are too specialized at this point. That's good for proleague but hurts in WL when opposing teams will just send someone in their worst matchup to take them down. And Movie was always overrated -- his PvZ is mostly semi all-ins off of two bases that work well against greedy zergs. In all other respects he's terribly sloppy.


His PvZ isn't overrated considering that he always goes for two bases all - ins and it works most of the time it means he is doing something right . While other protosses except for Stork can't win a PvZ if their life depended on it .

The difference between CJ before and now is that before Iris was an all-around beast at that time and now he barely even gets to play , and savior was actually winning some games , even Much was there for strategic advice .
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
February 27 2010 12:22 GMT
#516
ugh... cj ... :'(
beep boop
RamenStyle
Profile Joined September 2004
United States1929 Posts
February 27 2010 12:28 GMT
#517
Goddamn it, this team is so broken right now....
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
February 27 2010 12:35 GMT
#518
On February 27 2010 18:00 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2010 17:12 snowdrift86 wrote:
He's mostly right. The top CJ players are too specialized at this point. That's good for proleague but hurts in WL when opposing teams will just send someone in their worst matchup to take them down. And Movie was always overrated -- his PvZ is mostly semi all-ins off of two bases that work well against greedy zergs. In all other respects he's terribly sloppy.


His PvZ isn't overrated considering that he always goes for two bases all - ins and it works most of the time it means he is doing something right . While other protosses except for Stork can't win a PvZ if their life depended on it .

The difference between CJ before and now is that before Iris was an all-around beast at that time and now he barely even gets to play , and savior was actually winning some games , even Much was there for strategic advice .


Yeah the younglings aren't doing well with all the pressure.

Especially Iris was damn important with his TvP. Much, Savior and Iris were all three all around beasts while Skyhigh is only good with TvT and Movie with PvZ. Effort slumping hurts CJ a lot.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
awesomeopossum
Profile Joined February 2010
United States72 Posts
February 27 2010 17:04 GMT
#519
Wow modesty kills effort and skyhigh? Come on CJ...
we can plant a house, we can build a tree
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
February 27 2010 17:47 GMT
#520
And CJ fails yet again. I went to bed after I saw Kal losing to Effort but I was pretty sure that STX will take it. CJ is just failing soooo much this WL.

I wonder why is that. They have decent player a yet lose to everyone...
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