CJ kind of counts but, on paper atleast, their four man line up isn't as strong as KT's (Main ace, Flash is better than effort, Secondary, Lux is better than Skyhigh, and tertiary, Movie and Violet are close but I think Violet has become more consistent. Racewise Flash>Skyhigh, Effort>Lux, and Violet > or = Movie).

STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero.

I want to say SKT, but I honestly don't think Hyuk is ace material.

I don't know, I'd rate Effort/Flash the same as Movie/Violet. It's damn close, but Flash has the tiny edge.

Jonvvv

Norway1530 Posts

November 24 2009 18:29 GMT

#343

God damn Flash, stop owning so much >.<

dekuschrub

United States2069 Posts

November 24 2009 19:15 GMT

#344

holy jesus violet is badass!

and of course flash is the master

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

November 24 2009 19:28 GMT

#345

Violet's game wasn't that ridiculous, I went and watched it. It was a comeback, but not to the level T players are making it sound like.
Violet was never really that far behind. Mind never had more than 3 mining bases, while Violet always had 4-5, normally having 5. Mind got way too aggressive with his final push and let all his tanks get stasised when he should probably have just defended his 4th, which shortly after died to a control group of goons and an archon.

Also, Violet almost never suicided his entire army, he just continually chipped away at the pushes while consistently making reinforcements. When he attacked right before the massive stasises, you could see on the minimap that it was only like 1/3 of his army, maybe even less. After Mind killed this, he unsieged, moved forward all clumptacularly, and got rolled by the waiting 100 supply of toss units and 3 stasis/massive storms.

edit :
And Movie/Violet isn't really comparable. Violet has amazing PvP and very good PvZ, slightly above average PvT (which I actually think has gotten better recently, but not enough results to say yet - beating Skyhigh and Mind is pretty impressive though). while Movie has a very good PvZ and an average pvt. His PvP is way worse than Violet's weak matchup, and his pvz the only matchup he could be considered better at... the reason it isn't possible to compare them fairly though, is because it would be like comparing Sea to Hwasin .

TwoToneTerran

United States8841 Posts

November 24 2009 22:58 GMT

#346

On November 25 2009 03:24 SuperArc wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know, I'd rate Effort/Flash the same as Movie/Violet. It's damn close, but Flash has the tiny edge.

Flash has beaten Effort the past 3 times they met this year, 2 times being a clinic on how to crush good zergs, and the other being an unassuming and kind of sad cheese.

Going back before Effort was amazing, Flash has a crushing 6-1 record over him.

Head to head, Flash is the CLEAR favorite, by a large margin. In the grand scheme of things as an ace/player overall, it might be closer given zerg maps etc, considering their current PL record for R1 is similar, with Flash being a bit ahead.

On November 25 2009 04:28 Nevuk wrote:
edit :
And Movie/Violet isn't really comparable. Violet has amazing PvP and very good PvZ, slightly above average PvT (which I actually think has gotten better recently, but not enough results to say yet - beating Skyhigh and Mind is pretty impressive though). while Movie has a very good PvZ and an average pvt. His PvP is way worse than Violet's weak matchup, and his pvz the only matchup he could be considered better at... the reason it isn't possible to compare them fairly though, is because it would be like comparing Sea to Hwasin .

Sea is a much better player than Hwasin (nothing against Hwasin, Sea's only problem is he chokes in leagues).

I just think both Movie and Violet have shown massive talent (so much so that I think the 6 dragons club needs some rearranging, honestly), but it's too early for us to say who's better. They both JUST recently started to come out of their shells in the 4th/5th round of last proleague. Violet seems to perform better in PL while Movie makes big splashes in SLs (heh sea vs hwasin analogy), so it's too early to say much.

I don't think it's a big leap to assume the differences of Flash and Luxury, two very tried and tested players, to anyone else, though.

Jayme

United States5866 Posts

November 24 2009 23:42 GMT

#347

On November 25 2009 03:24 SuperArc wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know, I'd rate Effort/Flash the same as Movie/Violet. It's damn close, but Flash has the tiny edge.

Tiny edge?

I love Effort, I really do...but the way Flash is playing TvZ right now lends to more than just a "tiny edge"

Tyxiquale

Australia424 Posts

November 25 2009 00:45 GMT

#348

I don’t understand why no one has commented on the fact that even though wemade guessed right, they still lost.

KT and Violet expected a non-terran

Fox and Mind expected a non-flash

To put it simply, the wemade coaches out-thought the KT coaches, and yet violet still managed to pull the win. I think that is commendable at the very least.

konadora

Singapore66357 Posts

November 25 2009 01:09 GMT

#349

On November 24 2009 22:07 Vasoline73 wrote:
To be totally sure that he wasnt being cocky/BM is willing ignorance imo. Mind had the game sealed around the time he started killing his scanner to add the silo and could have just slow push sweeped around the bottom of the map killing both of the expos down there. It's not like that terrain isn't buildable... just build turrents, mine the shit out of everything and move your tanks. Plus at that point I think Mind had a vessel for every arb Violet had.

I honestly think Mind's reaction at the end of the game is pretty telling that he knew he had a huge advantage at one point. Either way BM or not he definitely got overconfident and blew his lead.

this would have been a good post if it didn't include 'BM'

seriously, the term 'BM' is being misused

Vasoline73

United States7816 Posts

November 25 2009 01:29 GMT

#350

Yeah I guess it's not really BM, just overconfidence. I think I was just mad when it looked like Violet was going to lose so I was pissed at Mind.

Manit0u

Poland17427 Posts

November 25 2009 01:32 GMT

#351

On November 25 2009 02:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero.

Don't forget about Modesty and July. STX Z lineup is pretty damn solid.

TwoToneTerran

United States8841 Posts

November 25 2009 01:57 GMT

#352

Neither of them are legit aces, even if STX will put out Modesty the same way Oz puts out Killer.

lone_hydra

Canada1460 Posts

November 25 2009 01:59 GMT

#353

omfg, i just realized i had violet on my anti team. fmfpl... and roro... wow, my first fpl is such a failure

Lebesgue

4542 Posts

November 25 2009 04:41 GMT

#354

GJ Violet. Can't wait to watch his games. The kid has lots of potential. He is now 4th highest ranked protoss according to TLPD. And half a year ago he had ELO of 1988 or sth like that. What a change...