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How Zerg can break fortified positions?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
SiarX
Profile Joined December 2021
133 Posts
March 21 2022 22:55 GMT
#1
I.e. mass cannons and psi-storm/reaver.

Or mass siege tanks.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
March 21 2022 23:13 GMT
#2
Siege tanks: Queens
Mass reaver templar: Usually you don't break this. You go avoid it by out expanding the opponent and forcing him out of his base, where you can surround him and kill him, or, you doom drop his main where he isn't fortified.
However, if you have to break it, then there are two ways, and they both require being ahead on gas.

1: Doom drop ultra defiler on top of the enemy. Use plague before attacking, and dark swarm when attacking.
2: Trade gas with guardians. Spread them out so that you don't get more than one storm per guardian. Eventually, since you have more gas, he runs out of templar energy and you win this way. You can use some queens for spawn broodling on the templar, too. That helps a lot with gas efficiency.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
iFU.pauline
Profile Joined September 2009
France1695 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-22 07:34:58
March 22 2022 07:29 GMT
#3
You can't really break that kind of defense, the whole point is to prevent him to get into that position.

Regarding protoss, indeed plague is a must vs reaver, I would add to the post above that for me the thing that will make the difference when you reach late game is +2 +3 carap for air units. Guardians is a good way to break defense but you must be able to tank corsaire with scourge. You must have air control basically.
No coward soul is mine, No trembler in the world's storm-troubled sphere, I see Heaven's glories shine, And Faith shines equal arming me from Fear
Sirris
Profile Joined November 2019
681 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-22 12:06:59
March 22 2022 12:04 GMT
#4
What they said is absolutely true. But I would like to suggest shifting your focus. Your best play is playing where zerg is strongest, before they get into these positions. If your opponent has reasonable macro and is completely defended with enough bases to beat you, you may have made a mistake. Denying bases before they become fortified using zergs mobility is key. For example you can use 3 base(5 or 6 hatch depending on tech) zerg when played well to completely shut down any protoss base after their natural. Hitting with a group of hydras while you maintain pressure on their natural. Scouting is key. Against terran it's more tricky but you should be active offensively with defilers before they can get a huge position at a key base. The defiler pressure will leave any new bases open to simple ling attacks etc. It's much easier said than done of course I'm just suggesting you worry less about these positions and more about how you can prevent them.
TheGreatOne
Profile Joined November 2005
United States534 Posts
March 23 2022 20:27 GMT
#5
Zerg can break any terran and zerg fortified position but can not break a single fortified protoss position.
Protoss has always been the strongest race and always will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leonix
Profile Joined June 2019
161 Posts
March 25 2022 21:25 GMT
#6
On March 24 2022 05:27 TheGreatOne wrote:
Zerg can break any terran and zerg fortified position but can not break a single fortified protoss position.

how do you break mass lurker darksawarm hydra?

Mass queen + ultra?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26540 Posts
March 25 2022 21:37 GMT
#7
On March 26 2022 06:25 Leonix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2022 05:27 TheGreatOne wrote:
Zerg can break any terran and zerg fortified position but can not break a single fortified protoss position.

how do you break mass lurker darksawarm hydra?

Mass queen + ultra?

I’ve never seen it to be fair

Would mass crackling not absolutely wreck that if you can get even a few defilers up to initial swarm range?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-26 01:35:00
March 26 2022 01:30 GMT
#8
As alternatives to risking an attack on a fortified position, consider:
a) Expanding so that the burden of aggression lies with the opponent, then surrounding their attack or trading bases.
b) Attacking less heavily guarded spots with smaller forces to force your opponent to move their army around. Eight to twelve cracklings, dropped into the enemy main, will force the opponent to displace many defenders. A multi-pronged attack will force even more displacement. Two lurkers under swarm dropped in one mineral line, plus two lurkers under swarm at a second mineral line, will throw your opponent’s army into total chaos with minimal expenditure of your units.

On March 22 2022 08:13 vOdToasT wrote:
You go avoid it by out expanding the opponent and forcing him out of his base, where you can surround him and kill him, or, you doom drop his main where he isn't fortified.

Ooops... vOdToasT already said it in the first reply :p
May the BeSt man win.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
March 27 2022 12:25 GMT
#9
On March 24 2022 05:27 TheGreatOne wrote:
Zerg can break any terran and zerg fortified position but can not break a single fortified protoss position.


That is just BS.
-.-
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1073 Posts
March 28 2022 12:14 GMT
#10
On March 26 2022 06:25 Leonix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2022 05:27 TheGreatOne wrote:
Zerg can break any terran and zerg fortified position but can not break a single fortified protoss position.

how do you break mass lurker darksawarm hydra?

Mass queen + ultra?

Defilers hide inside overlords, and overlords can block lurkers from being broodlinged

the only counter is mass ultra/swarm frontal attack
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1073 Posts
March 28 2022 12:19 GMT
#11
On March 24 2022 05:27 TheGreatOne wrote:
Zerg can break any terran and zerg fortified position but can not break a single fortified protoss position.


Mass turret tank vessel is unbreakable, especially with mine fields (the vultures themselves are quite expendable)

for example, in Fighting Spirit when the map is split in half, even being up the middle base is no guarantee for victory, since you don't necessarily have vision on tanks to broodling them, but the Terran can always scan you with like 6 scanners to see where you're planning to attack

but they will irradiate your expensive units to death eventually
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1073 Posts
March 29 2022 13:53 GMT
#12
https://repmastered.app/game/w46BS9zsxHAcuCWsFMMPLLvc4tRWw4thIFAdU_02zG4

If I had actually massed sunkens at the bottom of his ramp, I would have made a draw, but I thought of it too late

anyway, once he had dark templars out eventually I just ran out of the whole map's minerals
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