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rararara
115 Posts
what to do? low APM = lots of money too many units = not enough control groups aka CHAOS turtling 4 base P + ball of doom = unit many die storm drops = undefendable? and lag doesnt help low hp units. is defiler the only way? often I'm stuck on Lair for a long time to keep up with units. i also try drops, sometimes it works, but often it doesnt. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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Bonyth
Poland596 Posts
Try this: send out 2 (2x2) packs of cracklings to 2 different expansions for starters. The better upgrades the better. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6816 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
On May 04 2021 18:04 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: You need defiler and go drops.Is very important you make ultralisk too. gl I wouldn't listen to ultra advise. Making ultras is a suicide in ZvP in 99% of situations. In fact, even if you are sigificantly ahead, losing a fight vs archon / dt / reaver with ultras can easily lose you a game. I agree it is important to use lings aggresievly all the time, they are cheap and provide great value in small skirmishes. I also think that going defensive + expanding is a way to go. As soon as you can secure 4 bases with a prospect of 5 bases you just need to make many lurkers with swarm for defense (and scourge of course, for obs and shuttle). If you keep it up with mass ling + swarm/plague you will slowly start winning by attrition. Avoid "big fights" vs protoss in late game, storm/reavers are just too effective and it is better to have small micro fights (e.g 12 lings, 3 lurkers, defiler with swarm/plague) as often as you can. Then as Eon wrote, if you feel that game is going into a map split scenario where you are on even bases vs P, drops have to be used (again, zergling + deflier + lurker), as otherwise a very late game scenario will favour protoss due to gas effeciency on templars/archons. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6816 Posts
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att
128 Posts
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rararara
115 Posts
that defense+skirmish strategy makes a lot of sense, will try it. i see that kind of style often on Queen's stream, but he has twice the apm :p but how to drop if P has lots of cannons+HT? so hard to break! often I do try to attack at multiple bases, but if without defiler, those troops normally melt quickly and do no damage. I think at higher level people use less cannons because they need more army? at my level (1900ish) I lose to that turtle style + maxed out army often, also against much lower rated opponents. I mean I could play very defensively, drag the game out and make it a matter of who's got more money, but that ain't any fun! I guess I'm looking for a more aggressive and action-based style, but that doesn't really seem possible? at least compared to 20 years ago when I used to play (P rarely had FEs). | ||
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TT1
Canada10023 Posts
that stage of the game comes down to good management, you have to figure how you wanna fkey your stuff/where to rally etc. if you have low apm play defensive and hit your power spikes (crack/defiler/upgs), focus on good management so you can have highly efficient actions, you have to compensate for quantity of actions with higher quality actions | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic627 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
too many units = not enough control groups aka CHAOS turtling 4 base P + ball of doom = unit many die storm drops = undefendable? Answer: Don't let the game get to that point. "Just" make more hydras instead of more drones. Less APM is less of a problem with low econ. Too many units? Attack when you still have control over your control groups. You can control 3 control groups right? Other answer: Get better at playing the game when it gets to that point. If low apm and control is your problem, then practice better control. | ||
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rararara
115 Posts
@Boni: I think that part of the game is fairly covered, of course it can be fine-tuned a lot more. Efficiency seperates the pros from the amateurs. @Danger: I don't think you can evade Mid-Late-Game everytime and I don't want to Hydra-Bust or Ling-Rush every game, hope you understand that. And I'm talking when you have 130+ supply. That ain't 3 control groups of units, you probably need 6+ to cover the most useful units and have 8+ hatches... That's a really interesting point in the game and how a player priotorizes his management with hotkeys. Besides that, I'm probably not gonna improve much on APM anymore, too old and not enough time, but I'm trying to understand the game better. which still leaves some open questions for general ZvP mid/late-game debate: - how to defend storm drops? - how to drop if P is turtling with HT+cannons? - is there a more aggression-based approach that can work instead of a defensive style? | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia936 Posts
1)Ling or hydra allins early 2)Defense into crackling-ultra, mostly backstabbing when P army leaves and new expansion denial. 3)Mass hydra to take map control into dedicated lurker contain At least there are the ones I see working with decent success rate. | ||
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