You get 6 goons at ~6:50, 9 goons at ~7:25.
Takes about 30 seconds to walk across a map, give or take.
Pick your timings.
On a map with a far 3rd like Heartbreak, 9 goons.
On a map with closer thirds you can go with 6.

A lot of the effectiveness comes with making the zerg deal with both sairs and goons.
It's an awkward unit combo for the zerg to deal with at the time if they made a # of scourge.

hefty

Denmark555 Posts

December 19 2009 11:31 GMT

#29

On December 19 2009 18:23 Tuke wrote:

Show nested quote +

protosses are aliens too

No, protoss are CYBORGS!

SilverSkyLark

Philippines8437 Posts

December 19 2009 11:34 GMT

#30

recommended thread imo

Marksman

Malaysia523 Posts

December 19 2009 11:50 GMT

#31

It seems very powerful but just 1 question from a Terran player.

Can the Zerg get lurkers in time to stop this attack? (Assuming 3 hatch spire, 5 hatch hydra)

It seems like the robotics will be a bit late considering your focus would be stargate, gateways citadel but no observers. I would like to know the possibility. Thanks.

SuperJongMan

Jamaica11586 Posts

December 19 2009 12:20 GMT

#32

The timing is impossible for a 5 hatch zerg to get lurkers attacking you before your goons are already out around the map. Also, going lurker means the corsairs will hurt so much more than if the zerg had gone hydra. The earlier you leave with goons the more effective your attack is, although it's the earliest stages when this build is most prone to chogoling rape.

In a worst case scenario, I guess you would be shooting at eggs at their base in which case I'd probably hurry up and secure my 3rd with cannons and get a robo and temps. I wouldn't even bother getting gateways/speed/zealots for now.

Rely on your sairs to buy you time for a safe cannons up 3rd.
Shuttle templar to lurker break? Standard right?

The scariest thing is getting your goons surrounded and losing the game to lings/scourge.. lol.
But if you can neutralize the scourge and leave the zerg with a ton of lings, he is fucked himself.
And if you have sairs, why are you getting caught by ling ambushes you dirty noob? Filthy.

So in short, during the attack, if you can forcibly disrupt his drone timing, +.
If you do no damage and get stopped by ling lurker sunken or whatever and no drone cutting, -

I guess on a map where if zerg defends one location they get 4 gas, it is sorta imperative to force a bit of damage, like on Fighting Spirit, but to be honest, I haven't played any new maps and this build isn't the best destination build. And I'd guess you could cut the zealot follow up (only for one cycle) to get the nexus and such up faster.

I dunno.. I'm sure other P players have insight into this stuff too.
The key here is to cut probes early on to really force the zerg to quit being such a fatty.

- Actually... they might be able to squeeze lurkers out going lurker first actually
...But then there are corsairs...

MasterReY

Germany2708 Posts

December 19 2009 14:18 GMT

#33

hey dont excuse for best.

He obv didnt use CODRA!.
He used Dohdra, the weak brother of the mighty CODRA!.

Tuke

Finland1666 Posts

December 19 2009 14:55 GMT

#34

On December 19 2009 20:31 hefty wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, protoss are CYBORGS!

only dragoons

Knickknack

United States1187 Posts

December 19 2009 16:45 GMT

#35

8p-scout, 11forge, 14cc, 16nexus, 16gate, 16p, 17assim, 19z, 21core, 22z, 28stargate, goon, 32p, 2ndgas, 34goon, sair,
then 2xgate+range asap as soon as scout is out of range
@7:15 assuming 2gate asap: 2zealot/9goon/4sair ~70psi.
*you could delay deciding to go for range or citadel until sair scouts, but that would add on a good 30seconds, then range would complete a bit after you arrived at zerg base.
*can also go core asap with only 1zealot for bit faster goon.

The timing looks good to me...well its the best that can be expected.
Main thing I see is this is a timing attack, but does not have to deal with the nasty simcity+lings+sunk+drone like zealots due to range.
The second thing is that zerg cant really scout that you are doing this...well they can scout that you have no citadel/robo which is suspicious of course, but many zerg don't stay around so long and sacrifice ovie.

Still, I'm not sure if its worth it.
By 7:15 a well done 5hat spire build should have (go look at mondragon reps for instance) 12speedling, 2sunk, 2creep.
and by the time you arrive 2sunk at each base and 24speedlings.
And how fast they have tech just depends on how much they emphasize it over drones.

Boblion

France8043 Posts

December 19 2009 17:52 GMT

#36

I really enjoy your guides Soyu. You know how to make good strategy posts about the very latest tendencies and the new fashion protoss build orders. Also i like how you write your guides because they are never boring to read.

CODRa yO !

I will try this build although my sair micro sucks so bad that i know it will be a complete failure :p