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On May 30 2009 09:38 danieldrsa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 02:55 ichimarugin680 wrote:
Lol danieldrsa can't help his fanboyism so yeah they're pretty much equall yeah, after seeing so many zergs here i need to put out the flames with some gasoline  But to be honest, i agree with you, they are even Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 02:55 Atrioc wrote:On May 29 2009 23:19 danieldrsa wrote:On May 29 2009 15:07 piratebay wrote:On May 29 2009 13:15 danieldrsa wrote:On May 29 2009 11:13 Harem wrote:On May 29 2009 11:11 danieldrsa wrote:
Sorry but isnt Bisu 4 - 3 Jaedong?
Bisu
2006-2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 1
2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 2
2008 ClubDay MBCGame Starleague
2009 GOMTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2
JD
2007 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
2008 GOMTV MBCGame Starleague Season 4
2008-09 Batoo OnGameNet Starleague No, this is the correct. + 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Andromeda Win
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Colosseum II Win
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Medusa Loss
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Destination Win
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Andromeda Loss
+ 09-02-28 Shinhan Winners League Neo Harmony Loss
+ 08-12-23 Shinhan Proleague 08-09 Destination Win
+ 08-06-28 Shinhan08 Proleague Andromeda Loss
+ 08-05-01 Arena MSL 2008 Colosseum Win
+ 08-05-01 Arena MSL 2008 Othello Win
+ 08-01-08 GOMTV MSL S4 Blue Storm Win
+ 07-03-10 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Sin Peaks of Baekdu Loss What is that? Wins/Loss ? Im talking of titles On May 29 2009 12:04 Jaksiel wrote:On May 29 2009 11:11 danieldrsa wrote:
Sorry but isnt Bisu 4 - 3 Jaedong?
Bisu
2006-2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 1
2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 2
2008 ClubDay MBCGame Starleague
2009 GOMTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2
JD
2007 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
2008 GOMTV MBCGame Starleague Season 4
2008-09 Batoo OnGameNet Starleague JD also won GOMTV Intel Classic Season 1... Yup, you´re right, i forgot TG-Intel Classic 2008 Season 1, so they are 4-4 On May 29 2009 12:10 Harem wrote:On May 29 2009 12:04 BWdero wrote:On May 29 2009 11:11 danieldrsa wrote:
Sorry but isnt Bisu 4 - 3 Jaedong?
Bisu
2006-2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 1
2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 2
2008 ClubDay MBCGame Starleague
2009 GOMTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2
JD
2007 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
2008 GOMTV MBCGame Starleague Season 4
2008-09 Batoo OnGameNet Starleague You include Bisu's win of GOM season 2, but ignore JD's win of GOM season 1. Why? He also forgot JD winning WCG Korea too. No, as far as i know, WCG is not considered for titles. Its not considered a Starleague (there is a thread explaining this but i dont remember where it is now). jaedong osl 2 titles bisu osl:0 the rest is all just farts in a tornado *edit* gom isnt sanctioned, hence not a starleague. Sorry, but to me saying that MSL is not a title is lame to me. Although some ppl like to say that, MSL have the same skilled players, maps, and is bo5 when it does really matter. Bisu 3-0 Savior on a MSL worth 3 OSLs if you ask me. JD not bonjwa, Savior was Bonjwa at that time. + Show Spoiler + O yeah, nice pic i admit The strange thing is the guy with no OSLs above one with 2  Edit: done a small update to your image, hope you like
What a fail, omg, Bisu has 3 MSLs, ROFAIL
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Ok, guess ima start practising...
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good stuff!
thank you Letmelose!
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On May 30 2009 14:44 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:38 danieldrsa wrote:On May 30 2009 02:55 ichimarugin680 wrote:
Lol danieldrsa can't help his fanboyism so yeah they're pretty much equall yeah, after seeing so many zergs here i need to put out the flames with some gasoline But to be honest, i agree with you, they are even On May 30 2009 02:55 Atrioc wrote:On May 29 2009 23:19 danieldrsa wrote:On May 29 2009 15:07 piratebay wrote:On May 29 2009 13:15 danieldrsa wrote:On May 29 2009 11:13 Harem wrote:On May 29 2009 11:11 danieldrsa wrote:
Sorry but isnt Bisu 4 - 3 Jaedong?
Bisu
2006-2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 1
2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 2
2008 ClubDay MBCGame Starleague
2009 GOMTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2
JD
2007 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
2008 GOMTV MBCGame Starleague Season 4
2008-09 Batoo OnGameNet Starleague No, this is the correct. + 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Andromeda Win
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Colosseum II Win
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Medusa Loss
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Destination Win
+ 09-03-01 Averatec-Intel Classi.. Andromeda Loss
+ 09-02-28 Shinhan Winners League Neo Harmony Loss
+ 08-12-23 Shinhan Proleague 08-09 Destination Win
+ 08-06-28 Shinhan08 Proleague Andromeda Loss
+ 08-05-01 Arena MSL 2008 Colosseum Win
+ 08-05-01 Arena MSL 2008 Othello Win
+ 08-01-08 GOMTV MSL S4 Blue Storm Win
+ 07-03-10 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Sin Peaks of Baekdu Loss What is that? Wins/Loss ? Im talking of titles On May 29 2009 12:04 Jaksiel wrote:On May 29 2009 11:11 danieldrsa wrote:
Sorry but isnt Bisu 4 - 3 Jaedong?
Bisu
2006-2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 1
2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 2
2008 ClubDay MBCGame Starleague
2009 GOMTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2
JD
2007 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
2008 GOMTV MBCGame Starleague Season 4
2008-09 Batoo OnGameNet Starleague JD also won GOMTV Intel Classic Season 1... Yup, you´re right, i forgot TG-Intel Classic 2008 Season 1, so they are 4-4 On May 29 2009 12:10 Harem wrote:On May 29 2009 12:04 BWdero wrote:On May 29 2009 11:11 danieldrsa wrote:
Sorry but isnt Bisu 4 - 3 Jaedong?
Bisu
2006-2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 1
2007 GOMTV MBCGame StarLeague Season 2
2008 ClubDay MBCGame Starleague
2009 GOMTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2
JD
2007 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
2008 GOMTV MBCGame Starleague Season 4
2008-09 Batoo OnGameNet Starleague You include Bisu's win of GOM season 2, but ignore JD's win of GOM season 1. Why? He also forgot JD winning WCG Korea too. No, as far as i know, WCG is not considered for titles. Its not considered a Starleague (there is a thread explaining this but i dont remember where it is now). jaedong osl 2 titles bisu osl:0 the rest is all just farts in a tornado *edit* gom isnt sanctioned, hence not a starleague. Sorry, but to me saying that MSL is not a title is lame to me. Although some ppl like to say that, MSL have the same skilled players, maps, and is bo5 when it does really matter. Bisu 3-0 Savior on a MSL worth 3 OSLs if you ask me. JD not bonjwa, Savior was Bonjwa at that time. + Show Spoiler + O yeah, nice pic i admit The strange thing is the guy with no OSLs above one with 2 Edit: done a small update to your image, hope you like What a fail, omg, Bisu has 3 MSLs, ROFAIL
ROFL, lol
Indeed a fail, but the idea stay the same at least
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On May 30 2009 09:38 danieldrsa wrote:O yeah,  Nice pic i admit The strange thing is the guy with no OSLs above one with 2 Edit: done a small update to your image, hope you like Edit2: corrected an eror in the image 
One could of course counter that with the may kespa ranking
1. (Z)Jaedong - Hwaseung Oz 2708.3 -
2. (P) Bisu - SK Telecom T1 2385.8 -
(Although Ill look like a fool if the new ranking comes out tomorrow and Bisu's on top of it ^^ unlikely though)
Anyways I don't think anyone can possibly argue that an OSL title mean more than a MSL title
Also I don't see how an MSL title is worth more than an OSL just because Bisu beat someone who was a bonjwa at that time ^^ (besides the fact the he mainly won because he used a build savior was not familiar with)
Or does this mean that Chojja is a more successful player than Jaedong?
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Dude...it seriously seems like (if the tone of the original article was carried over in the translation) that the author was slanting his writing heavily to imply some kind of dumb awkward discomfort between the two. The whole thing feels unnatural.
Thanks for the translation, though. It was still an interesting read.
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Well timid is probably the most popular personality among progamers, since all they do is play a game all day.
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Thank you so much for translating.
Here is some wishful thinking:
ProLeague Final: SKT1 vs Oz
Standing 3:3
Ace match Bisu vs Jaedong (a balanced map would be nice)
This would be so unbelievable epic
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Hey guys, JD has been playing pure ZvZ in PL because the only 2 games he played that werent a ZvZ and on the 2 maps that aren't heavily Z favored, he lost.
Man, JD is so much better than Bisu.
OSL means so much more than MSL, especially when you're seeded at the top and have to play fewer games when everyone has to fight from the bottom to win an MSL.
Should put a monster sarcasm spoiler at the top.
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On May 31 2009 20:08 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:38 danieldrsa wrote:O yeah, Nice pic i admit The strange thing is the guy with no OSLs above one with 2 Edit: done a small update to your image, hope you like Edit2: corrected an eror in the image One could of course counter that with the may kespa ranking 1. (Z) Jaedong - Hwaseung Oz 2708.3 - 2. (P) Bisu - SK Telecom T1 2385.8 - (Although Ill look like a fool if the new ranking comes out tomorrow and Bisu's on top of it ^^ unlikely though) Anyways I don't think anyone can possibly argue that an OSL title mean more than a MSL title Also I don't see how an MSL title is worth more than an OSL just because Bisu beat someone who was a bonjwa at that time ^^ (besides the fact the he mainly won because he used a build savior was not familiar with) Or does this mean that Chojja is a more successful player than Jaedong?
I agree with you in almost everything you said, i was just counter-arguing the "osl>>msl".
What i not agree is that he won because savior was not familiar with the build. He won because he were superior, a fact proved by his victories until today.
Edit:
On June 01 2009 01:28 Mania[K]al wrote:
Hey guys, JD has been playing pure ZvZ in PL because the only 2 games he played that werent a ZvZ and on the 2 maps that aren't heavily Z favored, he lost.
Man, JD is so much better than Bisu.
OSL means so much more than MSL, especially when you're seeded at the top and have to play fewer games when everyone has to fight from the bottom to win an MSL.
Should put a monster sarcasm spoiler at the top.
That same argument you put (need to fight from the bottom) can be used to say that MSL worth more, as you need to prove yourself more.
But, my point is, in both leagues we have the same maps, players, and bo5. Why a win of Bisu 3-2 vs JD in MSL can be worse than a win of JD 3-2 over Bisu on OSL, with both players trainning hard for the matchup? That is.
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On May 31 2009 20:08 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:38 danieldrsa wrote:O yeah, Nice pic i admit The strange thing is the guy with no OSLs above one with 2 Edit: done a small update to your image, hope you like Edit2: corrected an eror in the image One could of course counter that with the may kespa ranking 1. (Z) Jaedong - Hwaseung Oz 2708.3 - 2. (P) Bisu - SK Telecom T1 2385.8 - (Although Ill look like a fool if the new ranking comes out tomorrow and Bisu's on top of it ^^ unlikely though) Anyways I don't think anyone can possibly argue that an OSL title mean more than a MSL title Also I don't see how an MSL title is worth more than an OSL just because Bisu beat someone who was a bonjwa at that time ^^ (besides the fact the he mainly won because he used a build savior was not familiar with) Or does this mean that Chojja is a more successful player than Jaedong?
OSL is, has always been, and will always be a more prestigious tournament than the MSL. To bear an OSL title means more than to bear the MSL one. It's just a fact.
This does not mean that MSLs are easier to win or that OSLs are harder, that depends on many things (map pool, players in the quarter and semi-finals, etc.).
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On June 01 2009 02:32 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2009 20:08 7mk wrote:On May 30 2009 09:38 danieldrsa wrote:O yeah, Nice pic i admit The strange thing is the guy with no OSLs above one with 2 Edit: done a small update to your image, hope you like Edit2: corrected an eror in the image One could of course counter that with the may kespa ranking 1. (Z) Jaedong - Hwaseung Oz 2708.3 - 2. (P) Bisu - SK Telecom T1 2385.8 - (Although Ill look like a fool if the new ranking comes out tomorrow and Bisu's on top of it ^^ unlikely though) Anyways I don't think anyone can possibly argue that an OSL title mean more than a MSL title Also I don't see how an MSL title is worth more than an OSL just because Bisu beat someone who was a bonjwa at that time ^^ (besides the fact the he mainly won because he used a build savior was not familiar with) Or does this mean that Chojja is a more successful player than Jaedong? OSL is, has always been, and will always be a more prestigious tournament than the MSL. To bear an OSL title means more than to bear the MSL one. It's just a fact. This does not mean that MSLs are easier to win or that OSLs are harder, that depends on many things (map pool, players in the quarter and semi-finals, etc.).
(my blank)
With that you said, how can OSL>MSL argument be cannon? This is just contradiction.
I know this is somewhat "common sense", but i disagree completely, by the same arguments i posted earlier.
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Koreans say so, so we must agree. You ask how we can say that OSL>MSL and we gave you the answers. But you aren't satisfied. We're not saying one's easier or harder, but players value the OSL more.
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On June 01 2009 03:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Koreans say so, so we must agree. You ask how we can say that OSL>MSL and we gave you the answers. But you aren't satisfied. We're not saying one's easier or harder, but players value the OSL more.
Well, sorry if i do not blindly follow what others say. And i dont know if all koreans think this way anymore, perhaps some years ago.
I just read the OSL/MSL history, and i saw why OSL has this reputation, and its deserved.
But i can say also that, from some years ago to today, its not that different anymore.
From MSL FAQ:
"What is the MSL?
MSL stands for MBCGame Starleague. MBCGame is a division of MBC which is one of Korea’s biggest television networks. Although traditionally MSL is seen as the lesser of the two major leagues, these days it is seen on par with OSL (in fact it currently has larger monetary backing than OSL). MBC also sponsor a progaming team."
So i see im not wrong.
Well, we went away from the topic, so i think its better if end this discussion
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On May 31 2009 21:43 PH wrote:
Dude...it seriously seems like (if the tone of the original article was carried over in the translation) that the author was slanting his writing heavily to imply some kind of dumb awkward discomfort between the two. The whole thing feels unnatural.
I'd guess the interviewer was either slanting the article, deliberately trying to make them feel awkward, or both.
But excellent translation (reads really well in English!) and thanks!!!
On June 01 2009 01:28 Mania[K]al wrote:
OSL means so much more than MSL, especially when you're seeded at the top and have to play fewer games when everyone has to fight from the bottom to win an MSL.
Jaedong is a Royal Roader. He won his first OSL when he didn't have a seed.
Bisu is a Royal Third Place or Royal Ro8 or something, not going to bother looking it up...
Stupid argument IMO.
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Bisu and Jaedong. The two progamers responsible for drawing my interest into StarCraft progaming in the first place. Their first encounter on Blue Storm is the first professional game I have ever watched and it still holds a special place in my mind. That is why I am a fan of both players
Thank you very much for the translation. Highly appretiated..
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On June 01 2009 03:19 danieldrsa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2009 03:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Koreans say so, so we must agree. You ask how we can say that OSL>MSL and we gave you the answers. But you aren't satisfied. We're not saying one's easier or harder, but players value the OSL more. Well, sorry if i do not blindly follow what others say. And i dont know if all koreans think this way anymore, perhaps some years ago. I just read the OSL/MSL history, and i saw why OSL has this reputation, and its deserved. But i can say also that, from some years ago to today, its not that different anymore. From MSL FAQ: "What is the MSL? MSL stands for MBCGame Starleague. MBCGame is a division of MBC which is one of Korea’s biggest television networks. Although traditionally MSL is seen as the lesser of the two major leagues, these days it is seen on par with OSL (in fact it currently has larger monetary backing than OSL). MBC also sponsor a progaming team." So i see im not wrong. Well, we went away from the topic, so i think its better if end this discussion
There was a write-up somewhere on TL that accurately described the relationship between MSL and OSL by saying "no one plays StarCraft dreaming of the MSL gold... It's the OSL championship that fills the hopes of players [sic]." Just because OSL is less frequently played, is older (I believe), and is generally bigger (in every sense of the word) than the MSLs makes it the #1 priority for people playing individual leagues. Just because the difference between the two has diminished due to funding, it has not diminished due to history or tradition. There is a reason why you get the Golden Mouse after 3 OSL victories and nothing for 3 MSLs (Bisu).
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9070 Posts
But I think the OSL lost some ground in the last couple of seasons. Not that the money got less, but OGN keep making even the further stages of the tournament in their studio, before, they were gathering huge audience even for the Ro8, check Ever 2007 for the reference, iirc the last OSL held that way.
OSL is still the pinnacle of the korean scene, but in the last couple of seasons I find it.... dull
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2452/mslosl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/hryand.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2452/mslosl.jpg)
