EPT[PL] Round 4 Week 2 Lineups - Page 5
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:57 JWD wrote: You really think that mech builds are "non-standard" vs. Z in the Batoo OSL's map pool? Come on... Fantasy's builds are part of his strength as a player (not some sort of disembodied entity which occupies the booth with him on game days), and personally I think they make his games more exciting...you never really know what to expect from him (mech often, yes, but there are many variants). Who cares whether Fantasy could beat JD with bio? That's totally irrelevant to whether their games are entertaining. Could Bisu beat JD without forge FE? He'd probably have a harder time but...so what? Forge FE is part of SC just like mech TvZ is. More like mech always, and if he doesn't get an insurmountable lead over Jaedong in the early game he's probably screwed. I didn't say mech builds are non-standard, I implied that fantasy is incompetent at standard TvZ, and all 5 games in the series followed the above point. Either Fantasy was way ahead early, or JD just rolled over him | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36369 Posts
On April 17 2009 07:25 Sunyveil wrote: ... Either Fantasy was way ahead early, or JD just rolled over him This is entirely inaccurate. What do you mean by "way ahead"? Because what saw in game one of Batoo finals was Jaedong getting rolled, and it wasn't because of some allin build early on. Fantasy was the one playing safe. Who cares if he builds a valk or two instead of the normal mm progression? Of course terrans can't be Jaedong "standard" because standard is their mm dying to mutas. If that's your definition of standard, which it appears to be, then almost nobody can beat Jaedong in "standard" TvZ. On April 17 2009 07:25 Sunyveil wrote: More like mech always, and if he doesn't get an insurmountable lead over Jaedong in the early game he's probably screwed. Other than Flash a few months ago, just about every Terran in the world fits into this category. If you don't get an insurmountable lead over Flash in the early game you're probably screwed. If you don't get an insurmountable lead over Bisu in the early game you're probably screwed. If you don't get an insurmountable lead over Jaedong in the early game you're probably screwed. It's called "being the favorite". I didn't say mech builds are non-standard, I implied that fantasy is incompetent at standard TvZ, and all 5 games in the series followed the above point. Right, and this point is entirely useless to the debate about the quality of the finals. Players play to their strengths. Why would anyone go standard TvZ against Jaedong when theres an 80% chance you die to the first 12 mutas? You started the argument by making this comment: On April 16 2009 20:26 Sunyveil wrote: edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him Which was entirely wrong. Fantasy didn't do any all ins game 1 and 2 and won those games. The only true "all-in" was the wraith build in game 4. Vulture runbys and standard mech are not allin. Credit to Jaedong for pulling out the series but it was incredibly close. Even game 5, which was decided basically by a single drone and two lings. JWD points this out to you, and you come back with: On April 17 2009 06:49 Sunyveil wrote: um, but how much better would Bisu vs. Jaedong have been, considering Bisu is actually competent at playing standard (GASP) (vs. Z) so that the game is between two players instead of one player and a build? Nobody was saying Fantasy vs. Jaedong would be better than Bisu vs Jaedong. He was just refuting your point that all fantasy was going to do is all-in and get owned. That's not what happened. To reduce what happened in Batoo finals to a game between "a player and a build" shows a flawed and ignorant understanding in what happened in those finals games. Save for game 4, none of fantasy's builds were allin. They were creative, efficient counters to Jaedong's style, and the vast majority of them aimed for late game advantages. Try to say "Fantasy would have taken a game from Jaedong if he had gone Bio" with a straight face. Right. It's impossible. What does this have to do with anything? Playing against bio is Jaedongs strength. That's why the statement "Fantasy wouldn't have taken a game if he went standard Bio" is stupid and short sighted. Of course Fantasy can't beat Jaedong doing exactly what other Terrans have tried and failed against Jaedong. Do you think Fantasy is a retarded idiot? There was 0 chance he was ever playing normal bio because that's Jaedong's strength. It's like saying, do you think X zerg can beat Bisu if he lets Bisu get to late game harass without damaging him? It's pointless to play what-ifs when the scenario is the best-case for one player. Do you think Jaedong would have taken one game from Fantasy if he let 4 vultures into his base every game? Try to say "Jaedong would have taken a game from Fantasy if he hadn't gone mutalisks" with a straight face. | ||
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cunninglinguists
United States925 Posts
On April 17 2009 07:48 Hot_Bid wrote: Do you think Jaedong would have taken one game from Fantasy if he let 4 vultures into his base every game? Try to say "Jaedong would have taken a game from Fantasy if he hadn't gone mutalisks" with a straight. *face. | ||
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
AND HERB YES HAHAHA | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
omg another Canata TVT. That shit better end in a 3-0 so I dun have to experience another one of those. | ||
KizZBG
u gotta skate8152 Posts
On April 17 2009 07:06 Roffles wrote: Fucking Kespa ruining our chance to see Savior get danced around again. Savior will be the one dancing this time. | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
On April 16 2009 13:09 RainmanMP wrote: Week 2 04/18/09 Air Force ACE vs STX SouL on OGN  OversKy<Battle Royal>Modesty Casy<Heartbreak RidgeHwasin Anytime<Neo Medusa>CalmReach<Destination>Kal<God's Garden> MBCGame HERO vs KTF MagicNs on MBC Light<Neo Medusa>fOrGGSea<Outsider>LuxuryPusan<God's Garden>VioletHyuN<Battle Royal>Flash<Destination> 04/19/09 SK Telecom T1 vs Hwaseung Oz on OGN Thezerg<God's Garden>HiyABisu<Neo Medusa>BackHofantasy<Heartbreak Ridge>JaedongCanata<Outsider>Lomoiloveoov<Battle Royal>JaedongCJ Entus vs Samsung KHAN on MBC sAviOr<Battle Royal>firebatheroIris<Heartbreak Ridge>JuniEffOrt<Neo Medusa>greatMuch<Destination>JangBiIdrA<God's Garden>Stork04/20/09 Hite SPARKYZ vs eSTRO on OGN herb<Neo Medusa>hyvaago.go<Outsider>SangHoLeta<God's Garden>ReallyYellOw[ArnC]<Battle Royal>UpMaGiC<Destination> First half of my predictions. There are some sane ones mixed in with the insane ones. | ||
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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
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hk2717
123 Posts
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
On April 17 2009 16:12 JFKWT wrote: Don't flame me for this, but imho in CJ vs Oz HiyA won't be able to take the pressure of taking game 3 and taking on Kwanro's aggro style.. Hes gonna get Kwanrolled! | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
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ama-cms
Finland164 Posts
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Spanxxx
United States408 Posts
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Heaven_n
Mexico170 Posts
Savior vs FBH Fantasy vs Jaedong what a great week =D CJ vs OZ is a har choice, i belive savior willl destroy fbh and i just see fantasy beating jaedong for some reason hope not | ||
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Meretricious
Canada161 Posts
REVENGEEEEEEEEE | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Its the map I'm most looking to watch this week for that reason | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On April 17 2009 22:08 Spanxxx wrote: who wants to bet flash 14ccs on battle royal? lol XD not really viable, the distance between mains is too small for that imo | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
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