Leta #1 on PR Rank Flash up and down, loses in GOM, beats Ace last night Leta loses to Savior last night Other terrans seem to have fallen off the map. FBH, Mind, etc... all seem gone.
k so it's been a while since i updated this... the goal is to document TL's perception of its Pro Terran players over time. So without further ado...
Poll: Best Pro Terran RIGHT NOW! (Vote): Flash (Vote): Mind (Vote): Leta (Vote): FBH (Vote): ForGG (Vote): Fantasy (Vote): Really (Vote): Upmagic (Vote): Really (Vote): Sea (Vote): Boxer (Vote): Skyhigh
12/23/2008
recent changes:
Leta beats forgg, frozean, loses to jangbi. still top PL record right now at 16-5 i think.
FBH gets owned by Best. Too much hesitation imo, should have moved out with his mnm force against a clearly expanding best.
Flash: up and down. didn't really follow closely... i know he beat Ace twice.
Fantasy: beats jangbi, loses to jaedong
Mind: beats Kal 2-1 at Averatec, beats skyhigh at Ace
forgg: loses to Leta...
and etc.
so, same as before:
Poll: Best Terran Player RIGHT NOW! (Vote): Flash (Vote): Leta (Vote): FBH (Vote): ForGG (Vote): Fantasy (Vote): Sea (Vote): Really (Vote): Mind (Vote): Boxer (Vote): Upmagic
no more second place vote. gogo!
As of 12/17/08, I think it's Leta again.
reasons:
Flash loses
leta rapes at OSL
new poll:
Poll: Top Terran Player right now! (Vote): Flash (Vote): Mind (Vote): FBH (Vote): Leta (Vote): Sea (Vote): Really (Vote): ForGG (Vote): Boxer
Poll: Second Best Terran Right Now! (Vote): Flash (Vote): Mind (Vote): ForGG (Vote): Sea (Vote): FBH (Vote): Leta (Vote): Really (Vote): Boxer
------------------------
12/16/08
I think it's Leta.
Did you see his rape of Upmagic and really? I think he could take down flash right now if he wanted.
Proleague wins are overrated, Leta's wins aren't versus very impressive players and it is far easier to collect a huge streak by just playing Proleague and never facing the really godlike players.
Leta does have a good shot at becoming something big, but so far he hasn't proved himself enough.
There is no doubt Flash is the best one by far right now though.
right now! pretend it's calculus and you're deriving the slope of a point on a line. so even if flash is/was an overall better player than leta, who do you think is the best today?
Flash is still just totally beyond every other Terren player right now. After him it's probably between FBH fantasy sea and leta. Leta still needs a lot more experience in individual leagues though.
On December 17 2008 04:15 Ideas wrote: Flash is still just totally beyond every other Terren player right now. After him it's probably between FBH fantasy sea and leta. Leta still needs a lot more experience in individual leagues though.
i'd take off fantasy and sea. revolutionist or not (and i think a strong case could be said that he's not), fantasy is just subpar right now. and sea... erratic at best.
fbh strikes fear into the heart of every Z right now, but all Z is getting raped by T lately.
i love flash, really, but i think Leta's been relaly strong lately.
Proleague isn't overrated. It's just "different" from starleagues.
For example, Leta basically played on two maps this season, Harmony and Chipong-Ryeong. You can do this in the PL because you pick the maps. Starleagues is where players show their versatility because of the varied map pool.
Edit: Oh, and as for top terrans, Flash is clear #1 and FBH is a shaky #2. Although ForGG, Fantasy, Sea, and Leta aren't far behind.
Could anyone see Leta beating Jangi, Best or Stork if they faceoff in the proleagues? Or would Flash have a better chance against those players? There's your answer. I liked Leta's consistency since last season, but he has yet to beat the S-class progamers. Right now he is doing his job well: beating everyone that I consider decent, but not the elite-tiered players
Flash is better in proleague. 3 of his 5 losses came back in October when he was playing horribly.
Flash is obviously better in individual leagues.
How is this even a question?
There are only two people who can even challenge Flash for being better at even one matchup and guess what Leta is not one of them (FBH -> TvZ; Mind -> TvP).
Flash is the best terran in the world because he delivers the best results in starleagues. Leta needs to do something in a starleague (finals/championship) to prove he is truly one of the best terran of all time.
On December 17 2008 04:53 Racenilatr wrote: Leta vs Luxury sucked I was so certain luxury would win
yeah i mean if people were so willing to give Lomo "best wraith control", they need to watch Leta pull the rape out on a strong Z player like our beloved (kinda) Luxury.
I think Leta has an amazing potential, but well... it's too soon to say if he is the next terran god. Have to prove it against better players than Really and to achieve something in individual league...
Will see. I'm still a huge Leta fan. He loves his wraith and his game is stylish.
Flash is an example of someone who is only doing well in Proleague right now, correct? And if you say that we have to wait for the next Starleague season before we can say that, I'd like to say the same thing about Leta.
If you just watch this Starleague season, the answer will become clear.
By the way, why does everyone hate Really? I think he's pretty good...
Did anyone see Leta in OSL last year? The kid has tons of potential, but I think he's going to end up being one of those S-Class players who never wins a Star-League.
On December 17 2008 04:30 bubblegumbo wrote: Could anyone see Leta beating Jangi, Best or Stork if they faceoff in the proleagues? Or would Flash have a better chance against those players? There's your answer. I liked Leta's consistency since last season, but he has yet to beat the S-class progamers. Right now he is doing his job well: beating everyone that I consider decent, but not the elite-tiered players
I definitely could see Leta beating Best in prolegaue, since he has done it before. It was more or less he who pulled OGN up to forth place last season. Not sure about individual leagues, though. And he has beaten Sea TvT, and Luxury and GGplay TvZ, so he has proven result in every MU. But however much I love him, it is way way to early to name him over Flash.
I believe Leta has a huge potential. He's getting better and better, and also looks pretty calm/confident. I definitely wouldn't be surprised should he win a starleague in the next few months.
And for the superstitious ones who've read that bonjwa pattern thread, Bisu just won his 3rd MSL and Leta was born in November...
Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
On December 17 2008 04:30 bubblegumbo wrote: Could anyone see Leta beating Jangi, Best or Stork if they faceoff in the proleagues? Or would Flash have a better chance against those players? There's your answer. I liked Leta's consistency since last season, but he has yet to beat the S-class progamers. Right now he is doing his job well: beating everyone that I consider decent, but not the elite-tiered players
I don't see Flash beating JangBI and Stork , maybe Best . But he sure as hell got a better chance then Leta does thought .
On December 17 2008 05:38 Zozma wrote: Flash is an example of someone who is only doing well in Proleague right now, correct? And if you say that we have to wait for the next Starleague season before we can say that, I'd like to say the same thing about Leta.
If you just watch this Starleague season, the answer will become clear.
By the way, why does everyone hate Really? I think he's pretty good...
No not correct, offlines have alredy started and flash is still in both leauges
Flash as of late has been tearing through all the leauges so id have to give him that no.1 spot but its followed close by alot of other terrans
I love Leta. He's the largest reason I have the little OGN flag. However, there's no way he's the top Terran right now. Flash has proven himself in starleagues and has been doing well in PL, while Leta has only done the second.
Not only that, but how good his TvZ is is still unclear(he beat Lux with 2port wraiths, and used 3port wraiths to give himself a large advantage against GGplay). For TvP, although he beat Kal twice, Best, and Bisu last season, all he's done this season is lose to Best, get proxy-gated by Backho, and bash some mediocre protosses.
With FBH suddenly improving his TvP and Mind playing better, I think that number 2 terran is a close competition between FBH, Mind, and Leta.
Number one, though? Maybe in a month or two. Right now? no way, sadly.
I'd say that Leta has the best TvT right now. Please don't just read the words "leta beat really", watch the game. You'll see that leta won versus really despite getting far behind early because of the build orders (14cc >> 1fac exp). That's impressive. And those of you who think that winning versus really is something to scoff at haven't been paying attention lately. Also he won versus hwasin after being quite a lot behind at the start and still coming through in spectacular fashion.
His TvP is stylish and sometimes godlike, but he sometimes makes mistakes he shouldn't. Like his game versus stats. Sure he won, but it was not a clean victory against such a (currently) low tier protoss.
His biggest problem is his TvZ. But I think that as long as he can prepare some cute strategys ahead of time (like Leta vs GGplay) or surprise his opponent (luxury vs leta) I think he could beat most zergs in boX on a good day.
He's not the best overall, but who is? I could not possibly say, since FBH's TvP isn't near champion level, and Flash is deep in a rut in TvZ as well as TvP (sure he plays nice games, but he's still doing his outdated double armory strat). Mind is looking better again, but not good enough (yet at least), fantasy is kind of meh as a lot of his PL games has proven, really has loads of potential, and skyhigh looks like he might be able to do what iris could not.
All the terrans are good at different things, and it's all about who (or what race) you're playing against.
A lot is happening in the terran camp, and a new top dog is probably going to be crowned pretty soon, it's imposible to say who though, but Leta is my pick. + Show Spoiler +
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
Football analogies, if Flash is like LT, then Leta is Chris Johnson.
Johnson, the young fresh rookie, has many 1000+ yard seasons ahead of him. This is like Leta. LT is starting to get old and even though he is the franchise player of the Chargers, will eventually stop performing. This is like Flash.
So at the moment I would pick Leta over Flash for now. But the big leagues (compared to football, playoffs) will be starting soon, this is where we can actually gauge performance.
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
Football analogies, if Flash is like LT, then Leta is Chris Johnson.
Johnson, the young fresh rookie, has many 1000+ yard seasons ahead of him. This is like Leta. LT is starting to get old and even though he is the franchise player of the Chargers, will eventually stop performing. This is like Flash.
So at the moment I would pick Leta over Flash for now. But the big leagues (compared to football, playoffs) will be starting soon, this is where we can actually gauge performance.
This analogy fails on so many levels it's not even funny.
1. Flash is 16. Leta is 19. So Flash is actually younger. 2. Both Flash and Leta started playing in the "big leagues" about a year and a half ago. So neither has more experience. 3. Leta has played 64 games. Flash has played 177(not even counting his GOM and other invitational appearances). So the importance one is to his team is pretty clear.
The apt football analogy would be LT in his 2nd year vs. a nice change of pace back who only touches the ball 10 times a game but gets pretty good YPC.
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
Football analogies, if Flash is like LT, then Leta is Chris Johnson.
Johnson, the young fresh rookie, has many 1000+ yard seasons ahead of him. This is like Leta. LT is starting to get old and even though he is the franchise player of the Chargers, will eventually stop performing. This is like Flash.
So at the moment I would pick Leta over Flash for now. But the big leagues (compared to football, playoffs) will be starting soon, this is where we can actually gauge performance.
This analogy fails on so many levels it's not even funny.
1. Flash is 16. Leta is 19. So Flash is actually younger. 2. Both Flash and Leta started playing in the "big leagues" about a year and a half ago. So neither has more experience. 3. Leta has played 64 games. Flash has played 177(not even counting his GOM and other invitational appearances). So the importance one is to his team is pretty clear.
The apt football analogy would be LT in his 2nd year vs. a nice change of pace back who only touches the ball 10 times a game but gets pretty good YPC.
i think LT analogy works in terms of name recognition but I think to expect Flash to fall off at the age of 16 is... yeah. it doesn't work. flash might have dropped a bit lately but he's the youngest pro gamer after Baby, right? He's going to adapt and come back stronger than ever, I fully believe this.
but right now, even if Flash is the best terran, he's fallen off a bit... Leta's coming up a bit.. which is why I think Leta might be close to rivaling Flash for best terran
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
Football analogies, if Flash is like LT, then Leta is Chris Johnson.
Johnson, the young fresh rookie, has many 1000+ yard seasons ahead of him. This is like Leta. LT is starting to get old and even though he is the franchise player of the Chargers, will eventually stop performing. This is like Flash.
So at the moment I would pick Leta over Flash for now. But the big leagues (compared to football, playoffs) will be starting soon, this is where we can actually gauge performance.
Except that Flash isn't old. He's actually way younger than Leta, and has had actually a really short career, even if your looking at it that way.
Whenever Flash starts to "slump" it looks like the kid is just getting bored. I don't think Flash is the best Terran; I think he is the best player period. The kid's a super genius.
the testimony for tvp isn't best, its jangbi. jangbi by far has the best pvt ever, who else can take flash to a 45 min draw??? i dont see leta beating jangbi, ever. n recently, 11-25, leta just got raped by best anyway, who had pretty unimpressive toss play, losing a couple of arbs here n there. there is no way leta can rival flash right now, especially seeing how last osl flash dropped out to ggplay doing weird builds, n he just came back raping ggplay through msl. to say hes the "top" terran he needs to have raped through some top zergs n tosses, which leta has not done.
I don't get why people are saying Flash is slumping. One loss to Stork, in a game where he played very well other than not anticipating/reacting properly to Stork's aggressive expanding? Am I missing something else?
On December 17 2008 07:04 d_so wrote: well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
On December 17 2008 06:55 GTR-2-Go wrote: Flash is definitely under performing. I can't count him now as a top Terran until he starts winning games 'often' against S-Class players.
My pick for now is Leta, since he has been SUCH a Fantasy beast. We will have to wait until tonight to see if he is actually worth the hype (Sea will be very tough to beat).
I think you just pretty much made the case why Flash is the best terran. He's put on a pedestal that even losing to Stork is someone a minus. OTOH, Leta hasn't beaten a top player since the beginning of the PL season against FBH.
I was wondering why someone would bother to mention Leta of all people for best terran. Now I get it. Fantasy points(arbitrary statistic made for fun) is now a method of judging players I guess.
well i don't play fantasy.
but i think leta is strong. i think PL performance can be an indicator of a player's future dominance, and right now leta is impressing me with his play.
football analogy: Flash is like Tomlinson, Leta is like... who's a good running back right NOW. point being is that one's a good player with a lot of name brand recognition, the other is a lesser known player but performing drastically above expectations.
Football analogies, if Flash is like LT, then Leta is Chris Johnson.
Johnson, the young fresh rookie, has many 1000+ yard seasons ahead of him. This is like Leta. LT is starting to get old and even though he is the franchise player of the Chargers, will eventually stop performing. This is like Flash.
So at the moment I would pick Leta over Flash for now. But the big leagues (compared to football, playoffs) will be starting soon, this is where we can actually gauge performance.
Despite the age thing being backwards, LT also has been sucking for quite a while now. The comparison is silly. Flash is still clearly the best Terran, and will be called such until either Mind plays well for a solid amount of time, or one of Leta/fantasy/sea/FBH/etc wins a starleague.
And I'm saying this about Flash even when he is my least favorite terran out there (beside Shine).
Most people overlook fOrGG, the only people he's been losing to lately are protosses, and comeon, who hasn't lost to protoss lately?
Flash is called the Dragon Slayer.... Why? Because he can consistently beat the 6 protoss "dragons" - Stork, Bisu, Jangbi, Kal, Best and Free
Flash is the best NO CONTEST!
i might be arguing semantics here, but it's actually b/c he's believed to be the one who will help contain the protoss dominance. I don't agree with that stipulation. If terran will fill that position, it'll be mind.
On December 17 2008 08:58 Avidkeystamper wrote: Most people overlook fOrGG, the only people he's been losing to lately are protosses, and comeon, who hasn't lost to protoss lately?
yeah makes me sad Forgg is just untouchable tvz wise haha.
On December 17 2008 08:58 Avidkeystamper wrote: Most people overlook fOrGG, the only people he's been losing to lately are protosses, and comeon, who hasn't lost to protoss lately?
yeah I was wondering where fOrGG was in this discussion of best-not-Flash Terrans; his TvP hasn't been too hot lately but his TvZ and TvT have been good. Sounds kinda like another Terran who has been entered into consideration for this, but I guess fOrGG doesn't get to beat Jaedong in proleague so he doesn't get noticed as much ;(
Still, I wouldn't say fOrGG is quite in the form he was in during his MSL title run so it's kinda understandable that he's fallen off the radar for a lot of people.
Performance-Wise? Definately Leta and Sea. However these 2 are always known for choking in Individual leagues. But when these guys play on PL, goddamn they are such beasts
Skill wise? If ForGG didn't roll off the stairs and break his bones I would say he would be second, however Mind has been performing very well. 1. Flash 2. Mind 3. ForGG
On December 17 2008 13:06 MrHoon wrote: Performance-Wise? Definately Leta and Sea. However these 2 are always known for choking in Individual leagues. But when these guys play on PL, goddamn they are such beasts
Skill wise? If ForGG didn't roll off the stairs and break his bones I would say he would be second, however Mind has been performing very well. 1. Flash 2. Mind 3. ForGG
Leta is not known for choking in individual leagues.
He's not there yet but Fantasy has a very huge potential. He's capable of making revolutionary builds and no one can question his mechanics either. He just needs more confidence in his games IMO.
For TvP= Mind. He rapes his opponents' econ with tons of brilliantly executed/timed harassments but what impresses me more is his patience. He's not eager to attack at all even if the protoss has a severely crippled economy. He finishes them exactly the way how a terran should fight the protoss army, the terran slow push.
For TvZ=FBH. Cheese or not, he executes all his strategies with surgical precision. It also seems like he already have mastered the matchup that he knows how to react to the littlest modifications in the zerg's build order.
#1 terran overall at the moment=Flash. His macro style and precise timing is godly, Despite minor consistency issues, his game is definitely S Class.
I look at a thread like this and wonder two things.
1. Has everyone just gotten bored of the fact (yes it's a fact) that Flash is the best Terran player and has been for a long time? Other Terrans have had spurts of brilliance, most notably ForGG, but have also gone through fail streaks that Flash never even comes close to having. If any other Terran had their overall performance scrutinized to 1/10 of the amount people spend on Flash, they'd have been torn to shreds right now.
I mean, are we seriously bouncing around FBH who has never seriously contended for a league, Leta who has barely participated in leagues and is simply doing well in proleague, Sea who is allergic to RO8, ForGG who disappeared off the map after his MSL win and still can't get in both leagues while also getting embarrassed in GOM, etc., as contenders for best Terran? I understand that if you look at individual games, sometimes some players can be absolutely amazing (Sea vs. Jaedong, some of Leta's proleague, etc.). But you CAN'T just look at a couple of individual games and go "oh, he played perfect there, he's the best Terran". Performance in the big leagues counts - A LOT. Flash hasn't been great but at least he's always there. And in the past year he won OSL, GSI, got 2nd in GSL, and made a couple more top 8's, I believe. No one else comes close. Oh yeah, he still stomps in proleague too.
2. Do people even watch Mind's games? He's inconsistent but when the dude is on, he is as on as anybody else. He doesn't crush like Flash does, but he wins around the same amount as just about everyone mentioned (except Flash). The fact that he didn't even make the original poll just boggles my mind.
Man I still remember Leta's first (edit: sorry, second) televised game against a then-dominant Stork (not that Stork isn't dominant now, he just had a slightly less dominant patch in between) when he tore him apart on Tau Cross with 1000 forms of harassment. That raised a few eyebrows
On December 18 2008 05:02 traced wrote: How would you guys rate Flash, FBH, Sea, Leta, Mind, ForGG, and Fantasy in each matchup? TvT, TvZ, TvP?
you mean right now and not all-time right?
I would have them currently at
TvP Mind Flash Sea Leta ForGG (slumping right now hard TvP, otherwise higher) fantasy FBH
TvT oh god this is tough
Flash Leta Sea FBH Mind forGG Fantasy
TvZ FBH Flash/Leta Sea forGG Fantasy Mind
I think Leta is too high on TvT, hes very good but Flash, Sea, Fantasy, and Mind are more proven, and forgg and Iris beat him in Msl. Leta is defintely on their level, but thats pretty much the only matchup he really loses, and again only to the best.
For TvZ, Id still put Sea over Leta at this point, again more proven, and even a slumping Hwasin or even maybe Casy over Fantasy's TvZ, which really isnt that great, hell one could probably put Light over Fantasy in TvZ. And although Midas has fell of the face of the earth, he probably still has better TvZ than Fantasy and probably a few others.
edit: I just realized you were only basically ranking the people on the poll..haha cause I was about to add, Canata should defintitely still be considered for TvT.
On December 18 2008 06:20 mog87 wrote: I just realized you were only basically ranking the people on the poll..haha cause I was about to add, Canata should defintitely still be considered for TvT.
Canata has gone 5-5 in his last 10 TvTs, which is hardly inspiring any confidence given that he's supposed to be a killer TvT player. Not quite his 10 game TvT winstreak from last season. Dunno how that stacks up to the other guys in the discussion right now, though. So I did some checking:
Flash - 9-1, current 9 game TvT win streak Leta - 9-1 fOrGG - 8-2 FBH - 7-3 Mind - 6-4
Fantasy - 5-5 Canata - 5-5 Really - 5-5
Sea - 4-6 (due to those two losses to Leta, was 6-4 before those games)
sigh SKT Terrans. Granted, performance in their last 10 games doesn't prove everything, but it is a useful metric for how players are currently performing. Not the only measure and certainly not the best, but useful.
note: i'm gonna try and update this with greater detail once a week. reason being is that I want to document how teamliquid's perception slowly shifts regarding who's the top terran. and since starcraft is usually dictated by its top terran, i think it'll be interesting to watch who becomes #1.
On December 18 2008 05:02 traced wrote: How would you guys rate Flash, FBH, Sea, Leta, Mind, ForGG, and Fantasy in each matchup? TvT, TvZ, TvP?
you mean right now and not all-time right?
I would have them currently at
TvP Mind Flash Sea Leta ForGG (slumping right now hard TvP, otherwise higher) fantasy FBH
TvT oh god this is tough
Flash Leta Sea FBH Mind forGG Fantasy
TvZ FBH Flash/Leta Sea forGG Fantasy Mind
I think Leta is too high on TvT, hes very good but Flash, Sea, Fantasy, and Mind are more proven, and forgg and Iris beat him in Msl. Leta is defintely on their level, but thats pretty much the only matchup he really loses, and again only to the best.
For TvZ, Id still put Sea over Leta at this point, again more proven, and even a slumping Hwasin or even maybe Casy over Fantasy's TvZ, which really isnt that great, hell one could probably put Light over Fantasy in TvZ. And although Midas has fell of the face of the earth, he probably still has better TvZ than Fantasy and probably a few others.
edit: I just realized you were only basically ranking the people on the poll..haha cause I was about to add, Canata should defintitely still be considered for TvT.
fOrGG definitely has the 2nd best TvZ after FBH. Hwasin has been stinking in general IMO. Losing the theZerg, Effort, and Magma.
On January 11 2009 18:01 Jenia6109 wrote: Top1 - Flash Top2 - Fantasy
Fantasy is a young player with a lot of potential to become great (esp. given his teammates) however it seems premature to call him the 2nd best terran at this moment. Personally I would tend to give it more to fOrGG and then Leta/Mind, FBH/Sea, then Fantasy.
On December 18 2008 05:02 traced wrote: TvZ FBH Flash/Leta Sea forGG Fantasy Mind
forGG should be way higher in TvZ. He's got a 70% winrate (he dismantled Jaedong 3-0). I know FBH and Flash are really good at TvZ but I'd assume ForGG is just as good as them at that match up. Oh and Leta should be at Sea's level until he proves he's worth against S class zergs.
I guess the result of the poll says all. Flash is by far the best and most consistent Terran in the proscene. His TvP and TvT are top notch and his TvZ, though hie weakest maych-up, is still killer.
I believe Flash is too inconsistant to be top, He had his days but it seems like over time he wins less and less and the games he does win are getting closer and closer. I think Flash has the definate POTENTIAL to be #1 but I think he is unfocused now. Possibly it could be that the other players figured out that Flash is a really safe playing turtle terran is are figuring out how to monopolize this, or like I think he is just unmotivaed.
Personally I believe Leta is a stronger player, he is simply amazing to watch and I believe he is the next "top terran" as a protoss player I hope Leta changes the tide and starts going up in rank more... Im getting kinda tired of watching so many PvP finals and such lol. GO LETA
I believe Flash as well, a couple losses to Bisu doesn't spell inconsistent to me.
On February 03 2009 09:52 nataziel wrote: I really hope you're joking about mind, he's going strong in both individual leagues and still raping PL, he is on the up and up.
I wish I could tell if you're joking, damn internet.
Should probably just make the poll Flash and Leta to be honest, I can't see any other position being seriously defensible so you might get a more accurate drawing of people's thoughts.
On February 03 2009 09:52 nataziel wrote: I really hope you're joking about mind, he's going strong in both individual leagues and still raping PL, he is on the up and up.
so yeah Mind isn't in any individual leagues o snap
and 3 wins 2 losses in winner's league isnt really raping
EPT
I was so certain luxury would win
