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Less Than Ultimate - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
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Wurzelbrumpft
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Germany471 Posts
November 07 2008 15:52 GMT
#41
you should be staff
beam me up scotty, this planet suxX
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-07 16:28:23
November 07 2008 16:26 GMT
#42
You write that Iris and NaDa are ultra-aggressive. Iris is, but NaDa is the opposite. Also you compare early-Flash with TheZerg, and Leta, which I disagree heavily on. There has been no newcomer like Flash since NaDa, and no newcomer like Flash after Flash. He qualified for MSL and OSL in his first attempts, and has qualified everytime since that for both leagues. And his 39-24 record is actually very good by progaming standards, and extremely good by rookie-year standards.

Nice article, and thank you
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
November 07 2008 16:44 GMT
#43
On November 08 2008 01:26 Guybrush wrote:
You write that Iris and NaDa are ultra-aggressive. Iris is, but NaDa is the opposite. Also you compare early-Flash with TheZerg, and Leta, which I disagree heavily on. There has been no newcomer like Flash since NaDa, and no newcomer like Flash after Flash. He qualified for MSL and OSL in his first attempts, and has qualified everytime since that for both leagues. And his 39-24 record is actually very good by progaming standards, and extremely good by rookie-year standards.

Nice article, and thank you

Fantasy = Boxer
Flash = nada
ForGG = oov

This is how I feel whenever I see them play
dats racist
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-07 16:55:03
November 07 2008 16:53 GMT
#44
started off good then you started to sound like East noobs when you started using 'rape' and 'fucking' so damn much.

huk i said started too much.
CholeraSC
Profile Joined March 2008
United States114 Posts
November 07 2008 16:54 GMT
#45
Really well-written article. I've always thought that KTF playing him for two games every Proleague match (including the ace) while he was playing in the late stages of Gom, OSL, and MSL was a form of child abuse. That constant pressure of practicing late into the night, worrying about his matchups, gave him those big black bags under his eyes that I saw in every game from the summer. He was more overworked than a 15 year old Olympic gymnast, and it showed in his unstable decline. Plus, I think since he was so good everyone studied his play for places to exploit it (ForGG v Flash in the Arena MSL was a great example). I think with some rest and refitting, and some time to make new builds, Flash will be back to challenge, and perhaps beat, the best players in the world (Stork and Jaedong) in the near future.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CholeraSC
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
November 07 2008 17:00 GMT
#46
After the semis against Bisu in the OSL some seasons ago I hated the kid so badly, his upgrade heavy passive TvP was soo annoying and boring to watch but slowly and surely Flash won my heart for his cause. I hope he starts raping stuff left and right, but what I want to see the most is Bisu destroying him with the gayest cheese possible
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 07 2008 17:26 GMT
#47
On November 08 2008 01:26 Guybrush wrote:
You write that Iris and NaDa are ultra-aggressive. Iris is, but NaDa is the opposite. Also you compare early-Flash with TheZerg, and Leta, which I disagree heavily on. There has been no newcomer like Flash since NaDa, and no newcomer like Flash after Flash. He qualified for MSL and OSL in his first attempts, and has qualified everytime since that for both leagues. And his 39-24 record is actually very good by progaming standards, and extremely good by rookie-year standards.

Nice article, and thank you


NaDa pioneered Tornado Style, which I feel is extremely aggressive.

I compare Leta and Thezerg, just because I want to give modern examples of great rookies.
On November 08 2008 01:53 gg_hertzz wrote:
started off good then you started to sound like East noobs when you started using 'rape' and 'fucking' so damn much.

huk i said started too much.


Thanks for pointing that out. I edited out 'fucking' in one version, but I guess I posted the wrong one. I corrected this.

I think 'rape' is an acceptable term.

On November 08 2008 00:52 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:
you should be staff


That would be nice, but I hope that TL has a more arduous process for picking staff than writing 2 articles. Especially when you're as new to TL.net as I am.
RIP Aaliyah
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
November 07 2008 17:31 GMT
#48
On November 08 2008 01:44 MrHoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2008 01:26 Guybrush wrote:
You write that Iris and NaDa are ultra-aggressive. Iris is, but NaDa is the opposite. Also you compare early-Flash with TheZerg, and Leta, which I disagree heavily on. There has been no newcomer like Flash since NaDa, and no newcomer like Flash after Flash. He qualified for MSL and OSL in his first attempts, and has qualified everytime since that for both leagues. And his 39-24 record is actually very good by progaming standards, and extremely good by rookie-year standards.

Nice article, and thank you

Fantasy = Boxer
Flash = nada
ForGG = oov

This is how I feel whenever I see them play


Sea/ForGG/Mind/Midas/Light/Xellos/Skyhigh(none of these are worthy ofc) = Oov
Flash(not worthy yet) = NaDa
UpMagic/Lomo/Casy/Leta/FBH(none of these are worthy ofc) = Boxer

Fantasy = Canata with no nerves
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
November 07 2008 18:22 GMT
#49
Iris/Hwasin = NaDa
They are the only two ever who I feel, remind me of NaDa.
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
November 07 2008 19:07 GMT
#50
Great read, and all I have to say is: flash is still young :D (hopefully he will just stop 14 ccing...)
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
November 07 2008 19:28 GMT
#51
very nice writeup
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
November 07 2008 19:42 GMT
#52
Brilliant article, I really enjoyed it. And personal correlation is a good writing move
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
November 07 2008 19:46 GMT
#53
On November 08 2008 04:07 Comeh wrote:
Great read, and all I have to say is: flash is still young :D (hopefully he will just stop 14 ccing...)


He has stopped, but now he has other flaws in his play that are harder to put your finger on.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
masami.sc
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States445 Posts
November 07 2008 19:51 GMT
#54
That was a really good read, like an essay. But I felt like the developmental psychology didn't weave in too smoothly... Flash is one of my favorite terrans, too =D
mmmmm...
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7584 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-07 19:59:57
November 07 2008 19:58 GMT
#55
On November 07 2008 12:31 SuperJongMan wrote:
Flash got robbed last OSL.
If GGplay didn't have lings from god, Flash woulda swept and had a very very real shot at a title.
It's a shame. It's a true shame Stork got a gold. LSDJFLKSDJF


A truly inspiring article! I am also saddened by how flash turned out, but he will once again be a monster, as he still is young and has the potential. =) go Flash!

I understand you, but I highly disagree with this statement. Stork deserves that gold.

EDIT: if you were being sarcastic, ignore my remark and my apology for not considering it.

Stuck.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
November 08 2008 00:28 GMT
#56
Hmm, very interesting. I had always dismissed Flash's slump as being wrought through exhaustion by how ridiculously overused/scheduled he was (he clearly was not 'bonjwa flash' when he played Luxury in either game, as well as Lux did Flash still sucked). This is definitely an interpretation I hadn't considered and will certainly need to take into account when I write specifically about Flash's strategy later on. Well done!

It's interesting because even in his slump he would show some flashes of brilliance: ForGG game 3 was extremely good thinking by Flash. Then he'd go right back to being stupid or complacent and not trying to outthink to win. Any thoughts on this? (Savior showed the same thing during his slump).

Btw Flash's TvT was statistically his best matchup during his streak at 16-3, but it was the one matchup where he innovated the least. I guess it just wasn't as defined because he never fought a terran equivalent of Jaedong/Stork while he was in his prime. It's pretty crazy that 5 out of his 7 tvp losses in that period were to Stork/Bisu, and 5 out of his 6 TvZ losses were to Jaedong.

As for Terran comparisons...Flash is the closest Terran to iloveoov there will likely ever be since both rose by creating huge innovations and relying on intelligent economic pressure. Savior is quite similar in some ways (defensive control style; strong mental game) and not so in other ways (prioritizing army control). Comparing ForGG to oov is like only looking at a tiny part of their game: their total disregard for controlling their armies at the expense of producing units. But ForGG is really a timing attacker type player ala Hwasin and Iris, while oov is his own totally unique self.

It's the same for Nada too. The only people who can be remotely compared to Nada are Jaedong and Bisu, as both have transcendant mechanics along with a strong will (this is questionable for Bisu). Nada just happens to have the strongest will in progaming, which is why he can come back and own no matter what era.

Fantasy is so obviously iloveoov lol because...iloveoov is directly coaching him and feeding him builds! Boxer would never pull a hidden expansion when getting owned (Fantasy Stork game 5), that's an iloveoov thing.
Liquipedia
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 08 2008 01:13 GMT
#57
On November 08 2008 09:28 Ver wrote:
Hmm, very interesting. I had always dismissed Flash's slump as being wrought through exhaustion by how ridiculously overused/scheduled he was (he clearly was not 'bonjwa flash' when he played Luxury in either game, as well as Lux did Flash still sucked). This is definitely an interpretation I hadn't considered and will certainly need to take into account when I write specifically about Flash's strategy later on. Well done!

It's interesting because even in his slump he would show some flashes of brilliance: ForGG game 3 was extremely good thinking by Flash. Then he'd go right back to being stupid or complacent and not trying to outthink to win. Any thoughts on this? (Savior showed the same thing during his slump).

Btw Flash's TvT was statistically his best matchup during his streak at 16-3, but it was the one matchup where he innovated the least. I guess it just wasn't as defined because he never fought a terran equivalent of Jaedong/Stork while he was in his prime. It's pretty crazy that 5 out of his 7 tvp losses in that period were to Stork/Bisu, and 5 out of his 6 TvZ losses were to Jaedong.

As for Terran comparisons...Flash is the closest Terran to iloveoov there will likely ever be since both rose by creating huge innovations and relying on intelligent economic pressure. Savior is quite similar in some ways (defensive control style; strong mental game) and not so in other ways (prioritizing army control). Comparing ForGG to oov is like only looking at a tiny part of their game: their total disregard for controlling their armies at the expense of producing units. But ForGG is really a timing attacker type player ala Hwasin and Iris, while oov is his own totally unique self.

It's the same for Nada too. The only people who can be remotely compared to Nada are Jaedong and Bisu, as both have transcendant mechanics along with a strong will (this is questionable for Bisu). Nada just happens to have the strongest will in progaming, which is why he can come back and own no matter what era.

Fantasy is so obviously iloveoov lol because...iloveoov is directly coaching him and feeding him builds! Boxer would never pull a hidden expansion when getting owned (Fantasy Stork game 5), that's an iloveoov thing.


As far as strokes of brilliance during slumps, I think of it like this. Flash's play is an inconsistent animal. He started out on the top, and a course of events damaged his confidence and ruined his ability to play consistency. Now he kind of jumps all over the place. Winning a game, losing a game, going on a lose streak, win streak, etc.
RIP Aaliyah
LightRailCoyote
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States982 Posts
November 08 2008 01:40 GMT
#58
Wow, this shit is long and crazy. There's been an upsurge of long long articles recently 0.o
AKA SurfSolar ----- This is the product of a DIY inadequate home
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 08 2008 02:20 GMT
#59
On November 08 2008 10:40 LightRailCoyote wrote:
Wow, this shit is long and crazy. There's been an upsurge of long long articles recently 0.o


I wrote a little expose' on firebathero, and suddenly BW seemed to explode with articles.

I don't care if I started it or not, it's been great. I plan on writing articles for a long time. I should have a new one in the works soon, I'm still brainstorming.

If there is anything you'd like me to write about PM me, and that goes for anyone. I'm looking for some ideas. So far I'm considering writing an article about:

Tasteless
Mind
Teamliquid and the foreign scene
RIP Aaliyah
SingletonWilliam
Profile Joined April 2008
United States664 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-08 03:10:57
November 08 2008 03:10 GMT
#60
Great article Doc, I loved it. Its easy to relate to Flash because he is so young. The entire article reminded me of that question, "What if Atlas shrugged?"

Here is the Flash at school video with his GF:

Aegraen #1 Fan!
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