I really don't know how to feel about this whole match fixing thing. On the one hand, it doesn't change how I was a Savior fan before the intentional losing happened. Yet it completely taints my ability to support him now. I feel that what he did was very wrong and completely opposite to the spirit of the CJ team.
Ever since the GomTV MSL Finals, it has been a long, painful fall for Savior. Losses to Iris and FireBatHero ended his Daum OSL and GomTV2 MSL seasons in the quarterfinals. A loss to Mind robbed him of a chance at redemption in the GomTV3 MSL semis, and a spirited attempt at revenge against Bisu fell short in the Ever 2007 OSL.
Behind stoic faces and resolute interviews, Ma Jae Yoon refused to outwardly acknowledge that anything was wrong--it was just a tough stretch, a small slump. Yet deep down, he and his fans knew. It was the beginning of the end, and the Maestro they knew and loved was gone.
Knocked out by Ruby and Kal in the GomTV4 MSL and all but eliminated at the Bacchus OSL group stage by Jaedong and Best, Savior's downward spiral continued. For the first time in two and a half years, he failed to obtain a seed from either individual league. He ended the Proleague regular season with a team-worst 3-8 record.
As Savior's play declined further and further into mediocrity, CJ Entus made a run deep into the Shinhan Proleague Playoffs behind spirited play from their Protoss Captain Much and their new Terran star DarkElf.
CJ faced OGN in the first round, and with the score tied 2-2, Savior was set to play a mediocre Protoss, Chalrenge. Despite playing in his best matchup and Baekmagoji's Zerg over Protoss advantage, Savior squandered a huge lead and lost.
Down 2-3, CJ responded with a 2v2 win to send the match into a deciding Ace game. Savior walked from the CJ bench for what may be his last hurrah, a final chance at recapturing his former glory. It was one game, but it would mean so much for Savior, for CJ, and for all his fans.
In a tense, pressure filled ZvZ, Savior prevailed, and CJ was onto the next round.
But as the camera went backstage, as the other CJ players celebrated loudly around him, Savior sat quietly and thoughtfully.
This time was different.
His face full of emotion, it was clear that Savior had finally realized that he is not the player he once was.
. . .
Savior, you should be happy. Never has a player more deserved a thank you and send off from his halcyon days as you do.
Hmmm I don't know why, but I was moved by it. sAviOr was the player I loved to hate and it sucks cause I can't hate him anymore cause he's sucking major ass.
I was going to start a Jaedong thread before I saw this one. But seriously, am I the only one that is observing that (after his win against Iris last night) Jaedong has surpassed NaDa's peak ELO, hence ranking 3rd (only behind Savior and iloveoov) for the highest ELO ever reached? (based on TLPD).
On January 28 2008 15:21 jkillashark wrote: Hmmm I don't know why, but I was moved by it. sAviOr was the player I loved to hate and it sucks cause I can't hate him anymore cause he's sucking major ass.
On January 28 2008 15:37 ssj100 wrote: I was going to start a Jaedong thread before I saw this one. But seriously, am I the only one that is observing that (after his win against Iris last night) Jaedong has surpassed NaDa's peak ELO, hence ranking 3rd (only behind Savior and iloveoov) for the highest ELO ever reached? (based on TLPD).
These days, there are more games than ever and more players than ever, which I believe would make it much easier to attain a high ELO rating.
edit: screw you bisu, why did you ruin such a good thing
I still remember when he beat PuSan in his first game that let him advance to the MSL minor league. He had Sync and Rainbow in his group. Not only was Sync definitely going to win against an unknown Z player, but he just finished a very good season in the Premier League. When he decided against a 3rd Barracks, I knew it was over. He was being arrogant and he lost because of it. Same thing happened to Rainbow. The MBC film crew happened to be following Savior that day since they were filming a special about the G.O team. Their cameras were situated on him as he turned around in his chair after raping the shit out of Rainbow. The look on his face stuck with me all this time because it looked like even he couldn't believe that he had just won.
Kind of odd for a guy who Sonic)Black (who had recently gone back to G.O from KTF due to their insanely strict practice schedule) had said trains harder than anyone he had ever seen, even in KTF.
I had stopped keeping up with progaming for a while since I had to focus on school and that was around when Savior was becoming a household name. I didn't see a lot of his major victories. But it's still strange looking at him now. From not believing he won to ... not believing he won.
I think I've become too far removed from progaming to make any kind of judgements about Savior, but there are definitely different kinds of progamers: the hungry and the happy. Some players are perfectly content to live a life of playing SC and being on TV every now and then (Rainbow, JJu, and most depressingly, H.O.T, among others). Others can't stand the thought of not holding a trophy.
If Savior becomes hungry like he once was, I believe he'll come back.
I hope he comes back, anyway. I missed out on too many of his games already.
I said this in the live commentary of the PL finals, but I would be happy with Savior making just one of the individual leagues next season, preferably OSL. All signs point to him not qualifying for either, which would be sad beyond description.
On January 28 2008 15:37 ssj100 wrote: I was going to start a Jaedong thread before I saw this one. But seriously, am I the only one that is observing that (after his win against Iris last night) Jaedong has surpassed NaDa's peak ELO, hence ranking 3rd (only behind Savior and iloveoov) for the highest ELO ever reached? (based on TLPD).
The ELO will only inflate as time goes on, which doesn't have to do with more games as much as the players retiring/leaving will always be the ones with lower ELO's therefore ever increasing the average ELO. If they could be compared to their percentage above the active average it would be a better indicator of dominance when comparing different eras.
I think its pretty interesting that we have these players who evolve to a point where no play knows how to play/counter them and they just utterly DOMINATE for a period. We had it with oov's macro, nada's Sk style, bisu's revolution of PvZ and saviors control style. Its cool that the field is generally so close that it is just a matter of the other players getting to head level for that once invincible god like player to again "fall" or become mediocre (average).
Savior is still my favorite player. His style and persona was amazing. Always respectful. Intimidating. He was the "villain." Something I was always drawn to even as a boy. His game vs Nal_rA embodies what I call BW perfection.
Savior was also the guy that came out and played his offrace against a former champion gorush because hes that bad ass. Sure he lost, but it was a decent game and if anything, it showed savior had balls of steel.
I hope he returns to be something of what he was. His character is a true gift to this game.
I didn't expect to be moved as much as I am. Never really liked savior, but I guess the transition from the Maestro to just another zerg has to be tough.
We will still get to see him in February, even if he doesn't make it out of his OSL group. Though I can't imagine him doing well in the Star Invitational group that he was put into.
Well if you think deeply - the boy just needs some time ... you can't deny how talanted and thoughtfull his game was. This is a spark and game sence we are talking about, and those things don't just go away. His problem is his mind state and he just has to get hungry again. And believe me this will happen like it happened to Nada. Of course considering he will not stop practicing. He just have to start everything again slowly climbing on the top and for that he has to fall down and rest a little in there.
off: God i missed this place and you guys. It's been a while...
I hate the shit out of him but his games vs Iris, Hwasin, NaDa, Bisu, etc. are some of the best bo5's I've ever seen. If he never recovers from his slump he will be sorely missed. Ma Jae Yoon Hwaiting~
I do not thing He will be back as good as he once ware but he still can be in the top 20 - 30. July was once also nr 1 once and he like something in the top 30. And if nada can go year for year and still be one of the better players so could Savior.
Aww come on guys, don't be sad. It is only natural for a player to slump. Heck, what if he does a Nada and wins another OSL in a couple of years. I have NOT lost faith in JesusZerg and I believe in time he will bouce back. For now, I am proud of him. The guy has 4, FOUR badges. I doubt any Zerg player will be able to accomplish what Savior has accomplished. You should be proud too, and don't be sad about his demise.
It's a repeating cycle; players come and go. I bet in a year or two we will have a similar thread on Jaedong's slump and demise from power.
On January 29 2008 01:28 .kaz wrote: I hate the shit out of him but his games vs Iris, Hwasin, NaDa, Bisu, etc. are some of the best bo5's I've ever seen. If he never recovers from his slump he will be sorely missed. Ma Jae Yoon Hwaiting~
Whatever else you can say about him, he definitely produced (and on some occasions still produces, see the PL game vs Hwasin) some of the most exciting and vibrant Starcraft of the past 2 years.
You ask people what the greatest recent games are and Saviors name pops up again and again.
He also was involved in some of the more interesting progaming drama that enlivened the whole proceedings a bit. Whether its his contempt for the clown Firebathero, or his dethroning by Bisu, or his rivalry with Nal_rA, or his calling out the OGN team, its been much more interesting than most other players.
Nice writeup, makes me sad though. Savior and Julyzerg are what got me interested in upper level starcraft and solidified my choice of zerg as my race. If it weren't for the fact that Jaedong is dominating so much right now would be a very sad time for zerg.
No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
I was epically high when i read that and watched the video. i think i've never experienced so much emotion for starcraft. it was definitely incredible.
On January 28 2008 15:21 jkillashark wrote: Hmmm I don't know why, but I was moved by it. sAviOr was the player I loved to hate and it sucks cause I can't hate him anymore cause he's sucking major ass.
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
Oh well, he wasnt that awesome anyway...
Oh no you fucking didn't. Get the hell out of my country before I find your godforsaken igloo and tear it down, pour maple syrup down your throat until you choke, and then write Mae Jaeyoon's name in the fucking snow surrounding your house.
Wow. What a great thread Hot_Bid. A fitting tribute to one of the greatest SC progamers of all time. But let's hope that this is all for nought, and that the Maestro will rise once again to reclaim his throne
P.S - Let's hope Genius Terran comes back too!
P.S.S - Hot Bid your videos are so epic. The music and editing really tug at one's emotions. Please continue to make more!
On January 28 2008 15:21 jkillashark wrote: Hmmm I don't know why, but I was moved by it. sAviOr was the player I loved to hate and it sucks cause I can't hate him anymore cause he's sucking major ass.
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
Oh well, he wasnt that awesome anyway...
Oh no you fucking didn't. Get the hell out of my country before I find your godforsaken igloo and tear it down, pour maple syrup down your throat until you choke, and then write Mae Jaeyoon's name in the fucking snow surrounding your house.
You have been warned.
This may have inspired me to move to Greenland.....
now i don't know whether i hate you or i love you.
i love you because of your past dominance. as a zerg player, you couldn't be stopped.
i hate you because of your recent form. it seems like you're an imposter, that someone had taken your name and your place because he wanted part of your glory, but couldn't live up to your standards..
i just don't know anymore.
you and rA
my two favorite players.
9/10 of me wants resurrection from both of you.
that last 1/10 of me wishes that you both go away before you fall further.
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
Oh well, he wasnt that awesome anyway...
Look at savior's accomplishments and tell me who's been a better zerg, 3 msl's, an OSL and runner up for the shinhan masters? What a beast
damn that was a good read, very touching... that's how the pro-gamer cycle is i guess...a player's rise to the summit is equaled only by their descent into oblivion...sad but true...
he will come back one day. it will not be soon but someday when years have passed he will come back, perhaps not to win anymore leagues but to at least remember a little bit of his former glory.
goddamnit HB you keep making these sad threads/videos that make me want to cry
the thing with bonjwas is that once they fall they never come back close to their level when they were considered untouchable but they can come close like nada. I miss savior
On January 29 2008 04:01 Salv wrote: No offense, but everyone in this thread is acting like the guy died. He still plays Broodwar, hes just not doing well right now. People are acting as if either he died somehow, or that he can't play Brood War anymore.
Would I get this response if I made a video of Bisu after losing to Mind?
That being said, the video is cool, I just don't understand the outpouring of emotion in some of these replies.
He didnt die? This may sound odd but I actually thought hed died or something and thats why someone bothered to make a video/thread... WOOPS!
Oh well, he wasnt that awesome anyway...
Look at savior's accomplishments and tell me who's been a better zerg, 3 msl's, an OSL and runner up for the shinhan masters? What a beast
Not to mention 5 straight MSL finals, fucking sick
Reading the op I thought he died / retired, christ you guys really are really blowing this up. Not a single player manages to stay consistently uber for more than 3 or 4 major league wins, maps change, people's playstyles get figured out. He might be good again in the future, who knows.
Man that was chilling. Though the music definitely accentuates the melodramatic tenor of the reality, I really think his emotions were as strained and seething as controlled chaos gets. Makes him damn happy to be alive.
On January 30 2008 02:49 DragoonPK wrote: Even though Jaedong is playing magnificently, I just cant see him as the new Savior. He is just not a Savior. I really cant explain...
Yes. He's different. But anyway Savior brought so much into the game. He completely changed the way i looked on a zerg play. And i don't think i'm alone on this one.
Think of the zvt/zvp savior played and comare it with how most zergs now play those match-ups.
Jaedong play is stronger though. But this is just obvious.
sAviOr just needs a break and some sort of vacation. I don't think he's playing for fun at all anymore, and his confidence is shot. But now that expectations of him are finally starting to leave maybe he can chill out and just play. And when that happens we may all be pleasantly surprised. He can regain a confidence that comes from not having to constantly prove he's still one of the best because that's not a good way to play. You can become the best because you are, not because you feel you need to prove it every game.
He has false "hunger" right now. I don't think he's complacent, it's just a curse of accomplishing so much and the expectations of him by fans and his epectations of himself may have gotten overwhelming. I don't know if his practice habits have changed but his fall from the top seems mostly psychological to me.
When his style was figured out more and he no longer became invincible he went into the inevitable downfall all StarCraft champions have had. It's because when you are rising to the top you are creating success and it's being maintained because you haven't been caught up to by other players yet. Once you are caught up to in skill level you need to shift from the mode of "maintaining" dominance and shift back into the mode at the beginning of your career where you are creating it. (This last paragraph seems kind of dumb but it sounds like a pretty good theory on paper at least.)
Nada has been able to do this in short spurts; it seems near impossible for a bonjwa to reign once again as much as his past dominance but coming back for at least a league or two is very doable.
I just think he needs to get creative again. Because did he not completely revamped the way zvt and zvp were played? I believe he got too confident in his builds due to his dominance; He got too comfortable at the top of "Starcraft Mountain." Then, all of a sudden a fuckin ninjatoss knocked him down off that mountain, and his throne. Since he got used to being on the top, the tools that he used to climb that mountain got rusty; in his frantic state of trying to get back at the top, he started getting sloppy in using those tools. Thus he started to slip. Other climbers who wanted to reach the top have refined their tools to do just that. So until Savior learns how to use his tools again, (or get better ones a.k.a. new strats) he'll keep slipping.
I can't wait til he knows how to climb the mountain again :D
P.S. Dammit i'm sad that Savior started slipping. If I was able to, i'd be willing to put him on my shoulders and carry him; yet who am I to carry a Savior? hah. PLZ come back SAVIOR!!!!
I think I've heard savior changed his daily routine by starting the day at noon or even later. At least I remember him saying so. That's a very bad idea since sunlight is important for health, it also provides you with pure energy and it motivates you. Sleeping most of the day makes you feel spent and uncomfortable, you can't give 100%, especially not mentally. If I remember correctly Savior's slump started about then. He must realize that after all he's just a human being and that he shouldn't try so hard becoming superior that he damages himself. He shouldn't fight mother nature, she always wins.
IPXZerg please come back! Ma jae i miss u dominating the pro scene.. u had that bad ass attitude like u just didnt give a fuck... but after winning vs the twin in the ace match and u droppin tears let me see how much a win means to u now T_T
I am so sad watching this video, somehow I could share his feeling after his each loss to Bisu and FBH. But if he could somehow get his former self back he will still donimate the stage, even Jaedong's recent plays are not as amazing as sAviOr's old games, just look at how epic his recent match was with Nada, that should easily reminds us what a beast he once was....
Now THAT was a good video. Touchy OP vod has nothing on that. Great job Klazart.
Get optimistic people!!!!!!
Btw what's up with these touchy depressing Savior vods letely. A REAL Savior VOD needs some hardcore Ramshtein music, clips of him yawning and rolling his neck, and maybe even that Nazi salute picture. Better yet, use that pciture of him cracking his wrist in a black CJ shirt with a dark background. (prerry famous picture but could find it -__-). Then have a shot of a defiler hatching, and right after that a shot of Midas crying. A shot of Dark Swarm being cast, and Nada dropping his head. THAT's a Savior vod because THAT's Savior. He is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad mothatfucka. Cold, efficient killer.
Now THAT was a good video. Touchy OP vod has nothing on that. Great job Klazart.
Get optimistic people!!!!!!
Btw what's up with these touchy depressing Savior vods letely. A REAL Savior VOD needs some hardcore Ramshtein music, clips of him yawning and rolling his neck, and maybe even that Nazi salute picture. Better yet, use that pciture of him cracking his wrist in a black CJ shirt with a dark background. (prerry famous picture but could find it -__-). Then have a shot of a defiler hatching, and right after that a shot of Midas crying. A shot of Dark Swarm being cast, and Nada dropping his head. THAT's a Savior vod because THAT's Savior. He is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad mothatfucka. Cold, efficient killer.
Remember people, remember!
that actually improved my morale regarding this savior topic...looking back in the past on how savior dominated everyone always gets me pumped up, but then i think about the present and everything just falls apart
Now THAT was a good video. Touchy OP vod has nothing on that. Great job Klazart.
Get optimistic people!!!!!!
Btw what's up with these touchy depressing Savior vods letely. A REAL Savior VOD needs some hardcore Ramshtein music, clips of him yawning and rolling his neck, and maybe even that Nazi salute picture. Better yet, use that pciture of him cracking his wrist in a black CJ shirt with a dark background. (prerry famous picture but could find it -__-). Then have a shot of a defiler hatching, and right after that a shot of Midas crying. A shot of Dark Swarm being cast, and Nada dropping his head. THAT's a Savior vod because THAT's Savior. He is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad mothatfucka. Cold, efficient killer.
Now THAT was a good video. Touchy OP vod has nothing on that. Great job Klazart.
Get optimistic people!!!!!!
Btw what's up with these touchy depressing Savior vods letely. A REAL Savior VOD needs some hardcore Ramshtein music, clips of him yawning and rolling his neck, and maybe even that Nazi salute picture. Better yet, use that pciture of him cracking his wrist in a black CJ shirt with a dark background. (prerry famous picture but could find it -__-). Then have a shot of a defiler hatching, and right after that a shot of Midas crying. A shot of Dark Swarm being cast, and Nada dropping his head. THAT's a Savior vod because THAT's Savior. He is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad mothatfucka. Cold, efficient killer.
On January 30 2008 11:06 InfesTeD]i[ wrote: This is why I hate bisu so much.
IPXZerg please come back! Ma jae i miss u dominating the pro scene.. u had that bad ass attitude like u just didnt give a fuck... but after winning vs the twin in the ace match and u droppin tears let me see how much a win means to u now T_T
I feel like a fag for some reason correcting you on this, but Savior's name is Jae Yoon, not Ma Jae. Ma is his last name.
damn... man i wish savior dominants alot T.T he made zerg games looks more fun, other than july but yea savior becoming a bonjwa and everything was awesome
I loved the time when he ruled everyone. I was the happiest kid seeing his play and staying up late to see him tear his opponents apart like they were nothing.
Other players have had it much worse than savior has.
Savior needs to realize he isn't the same dominant player anymore and tackle it with a new mindset. Nada didn't conquer his inner demons by crumbling, no he came back fierce and stronger.
Call me sadistic, but savior getting raped makes me laugh, its just a huge difference than what he was about 1 and a half years ago, amazing, it still makes me wonder if I'm watching the same player and not Rumble.
i suppose lets just enjoy it and not have false hopes this time
Gandhi: I guess there's just no hope for guys like us. Scudworth: There's always hope, Gandhi. *pats Gandhi on the back* When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons and make SUPER lemons.
Quite touching videos. However I dont think he will be back again. It hasnt been like with NaDa. NaDa has always been there, a contender. But once the maestro started slumping hes just been falling farther and farther.
I guess zerg fans will have to pick a new hero. Jaedong seems to be the only option at the moment, but GGPlay has been showing some impressive play lately.
Savior still has the MSL.... perhaps he can do something.
On April 21 2008 08:02 IzzyCraft wrote: Well atlest savior will always have out hearts as fans unlike the new kings in sc savior will always be remembered
Did you first pick up the game in 2005 or something?
Who would have known that my signature from years ago would prove so prophetic! XD
And who would have known that I would regret it ever so slightly. But, only slightly!
The plight of one progamer is the plight of all progamers.
Be grateful that he had such a good run if this is actually his final hurrah. Garimto's last game was against Lee on Avant Garde II.
Hopefully he'll return though, I want NaDa to return simultaneously and rip him a new one up and down the street. Maybe there will be a "Year of the Bonjwa" and everyone will return from retirement and we'll have ridiculous matches left and right and NaDa will emerge victorious, King of the Bonjwas!
SO yeah, anyway, I hope Savior returns because watching him right now reminds me of a bad anime.
Edit: (By NaDa returning, I mean dominating because it can only be one or the other)
his experience will always make him a great SC player but his reflexes are definately fading.
I guess theres a point at wich you ve just played so many SC games that even the simplest of strategy sudenly becomes very complex in your mind. Like what hapened in the game vs spear...
That video alwasy sends shivers down my spine, eveyrtime i watch it it makes me want to play, it makes me want to see savior dominating again, it reminds me why i love this game.
Then as quickly as it all comes to me it goes away. If any Zerg watches that before he plays he gets an immediate confidence boost. Knowing how savior just owned back then. God how i wish i could watch him dominate one last time, watching him win the OSL was like having the last cigarrette, just not knowing you were having. Never got to truly savor the dominance. The beauty, the artful way which he controlled his units and how he spent his money, there wasn't usually insanely flashy plays. Just sheer and utter unrelenting dominance.
Back then there was 4 races, there was terran, zerg, protoss, and maestro he was just in a league and a race of his own. His race was the imbalanced one. Not even the mapmakers could beat it, despite how hard they tried.
I use to love to hate Savior I was so happy when Bisu 3-0ed him but now... this is just sad I cannot hate Savior... he's just fallen too far Savior come back!!
Ma Jae Yoon refused to outwardly acknowledge that anything was wrong--it was just a tough stretch, a small slump.
much like the US's economy up to a couple months ago. for years those who have been saying the "economy is fine, why are you such a doom sayer?" while ignoring the massive and understated inflation others have been constantly citing as the cause for the doom, are only now admitting their fallacy (but still ignoring the root cause) with the media's admission. why rely on the media (aka rupert murdoch) for anything? why rely on mainstream opinion? mainstream is the artificial reality, the matrix by which the elites in the power structure shape and herd the ignorant.
Ma Jae Yoon refused to outwardly acknowledge that anything was wrong--it was just a tough stretch, a small slump.
much like the US's economy up to a couple months ago. for years those who have been saying the "economy is fine, why are you such a doom sayer?" while ignoring the massive and understated inflation others have been constantly citing as the cause for the doom, are only now admitting their fallacy (but still ignoring the root cause) with the media's admission. why rely on the media (aka rupert murdoch) for anything? why rely on mainstream opinion? mainstream is the artificial reality, the matrix by which the elites in the power structure shape and herd the ignorant.
this is way too deep and discussion of the US economy does not belong here. what belongs here is THAT saVIOR IS SUCKIGN THESE DAYS . T___________________T
On April 21 2008 13:56 MoNKeYSpanKeR wrote: That video alwasy sends shivers down my spine, eveyrtime i watch it it makes me want to play, it makes me want to see savior dominating again, it reminds me why i love this game.
Then as quickly as it all comes to me it goes away. If any Zerg watches that before he plays he gets an immediate confidence boost. Knowing how savior just owned back then. God how i wish i could watch him dominate one last time, watching him win the OSL was like having the last cigarrette, just not knowing you were having. Never got to truly savor the dominance. The beauty, the artful way which he controlled his units and how he spent his money, there wasn't usually insanely flashy plays. Just sheer and utter unrelenting dominance.
Back then there was 4 races, there was terran, zerg, protoss, and maestro he was just in a league and a race of his own. His race was the imbalanced one. Not even the mapmakers could beat it, despite how hard they tried.
Ma Jae Yoon refused to outwardly acknowledge that anything was wrong--it was just a tough stretch, a small slump.
much like the US's economy up to a couple months ago. for years those who have been saying the "economy is fine, why are you such a doom sayer?" while ignoring the massive and understated inflation others have been constantly citing as the cause for the doom, are only now admitting their fallacy (but still ignoring the root cause) with the media's admission. why rely on the media (aka rupert murdoch) for anything? why rely on mainstream opinion? mainstream is the artificial reality, the matrix by which the elites in the power structure shape and herd the ignorant.
Man, What happens to this people though, like I don't get it... what makes them slump so bad, I mean Savior is scary man... he always looks so confident and that picture of him that says "He will eat your soul" + Show Spoiler +
Ma Jae Yoon refused to outwardly acknowledge that anything was wrong--it was just a tough stretch, a small slump.
much like the US's economy up to a couple months ago. for years those who have been saying the "economy is fine, why are you such a doom sayer?" while ignoring the massive and understated inflation others have been constantly citing as the cause for the doom, are only now admitting their fallacy (but still ignoring the root cause) with the media's admission. why rely on the media (aka rupert murdoch) for anything? why rely on mainstream opinion? mainstream is the artificial reality, the matrix by which the elites in the power structure shape and herd the ignorant.
Simply for attempting to hijack this thread and turn it into something political, you lose all credibility and fail at life. Do not pass "Go," do not collect 200 dollars.
I miss Savior. He capitvated my heart already while on the road to his first MSL final. I saw him play and went "oh my god." I found a rep of him and showed all my friends again and again. I said "this is the best player in the world."
I remember arguing with tfgein about Chojja vs Savior. I remember his futile argument that Chojja had stronger ZvT. I remember predicting Casy's 3-1 over Chojja and Savior's continued rise to greatness. Good times.
Even when Savior startyed his slump, his slump began with 60% wins. It honest to god was just a bump in the road at that time. Unfotunately, that little bump sent him skidding off course and on the road to disaster.
God I love this vod so. I miss savior's dominance so much.
Ironically, we did witness the rise of a new legend Cool video, got the whole dark feel to it.
I wonder why Savior's nickname is maestro though, as cool as it sounds, it had a more pure artful taste to it, than the dark destructive entity that he was.
I wish there was a way for Savior to see this thread so that he knows how much some of us support him. I wish I knew how he could be motivated to go for that Starleague throne again.
This is a sad video indeed... how a man that used to dominate the whole pro scene comes to cry after a petty win in PL.... ( I mean I totally understand that win meant alot.. but think about it he won MSL/OSL and didnt even drop a tear )
Hey guys, only recently have i started appreciating Savior.
Because I've started watching the pros from the beginning of Bisu domination, I never got to see the "maestro in action" Can anyone point me out to some of his greatest games and how many in a row he won? I was extremely shocked to see Jaedong win like 13 games in a row...has this been done by Savior?
I'm really curious about this dominance back in his old days Although Jaedong will always be my favorite player, I still respect Savior nontheless
As someone who got into the progaming scene around the height of sAviOr's dominance, it pains me to see him slumping like this. Maybe it's the timing, or maybe I'm really gay and I don't know it, but I have a strange emotional attachment to him. Every time he has a game coming up, I think "ok, maybe he'll come back this time!" ... but my hopes are always crushed. I don't know how much more sAviOr has and I don't know how much more love I can give him T____T
On April 22 2008 13:27 B1nary wrote: As someone who got into the progaming scene around the height of sAviOr's dominance, it pains me to see him slumping like this. Maybe it's the timing, or maybe I'm really gay and I don't know it, but I have a strange emotional attachment to him. Every time he has a game coming up, I think "ok, maybe he'll come back this time!" ... but my hopes are always crushed. I don't know how much more sAviOr has and I don't know how much more love I can give him T____T
So did I, it was Savior that got me into SC VODS and Savior tht got me into teamliquid. Long live Ma Jae Yoon!
Awesome post Shallow Everyone of those games worth watching, except the Game of the Year 2007 (if thats the game I'm thinking of, Game 2 Katrina vs Bisu), because that one will make you cry tears of blood. one of my least favorite games of all time just from how much i was cheering when i watched it live only to see it slowly slip away.
Ma Jae Yoon refused to outwardly acknowledge that anything was wrong--it was just a tough stretch, a small slump.
much like the US's economy up to a couple months ago. for years those who have been saying the "economy is fine, why are you such a doom sayer?" while ignoring the massive and understated inflation others have been constantly citing as the cause for the doom, are only now admitting their fallacy (but still ignoring the root cause) with the media's admission. why rely on the media (aka rupert murdoch) for anything? why rely on mainstream opinion? mainstream is the artificial reality, the matrix by which the elites in the power structure shape and herd the ignorant.
this is way too deep and discussion of the US economy does not belong here. what belongs here is THAT saVIOR IS SUCKIGN THESE DAYS . T___________________T
On April 23 2008 01:50 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I only posted sAviOr vs Bisu @ Katrina because it won Game of the Year. I personally refuse to watch it, and have not watched it so far.
On April 23 2008 01:50 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I only posted sAviOr vs Bisu @ Katrina because it won Game of the Year. I personally refuse to watch it, and have not watched it so far.
On April 23 2008 01:50 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I only posted sAviOr vs Bisu @ Katrina because it won Game of the Year. I personally refuse to watch it, and have not watched it so far.
I'm a savior fan and I still loved that game. Despite the sad end and insane comeback, the game was extremely entertaining and early game was kind of reminiscent of the true maestro.
On April 23 2008 01:50 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I only posted sAviOr vs Bisu @ Katrina because it won Game of the Year. I personally refuse to watch it, and have not watched it so far.
I agree.. I didn't watch the finals where he was 3:0ed.. it made me so upset
Well..Having not read all the posts no one would consider it sad if someone i knew actually cried from this would they..?
Anyway,It really makes me sad to see sAviOr slump and fall out like this..even when he was slumping at his worse (when i was using gosubet) i would go all in on games i knew he wouldnt win but still hoped he would pull a miracle..i lost all of these bets and had to reset many times..
Please come back.. Note : I have watched this video around 30-40 times.
Edit : Because of what he did to sAviOr this is why i hate Bisu so much..
On May 02 2008 11:13 arb wrote: Well..Having not read all the posts no one would consider it sad if someone i knew actually cried from this would they..?
Anyone who didn't tear up form this is a cold bastard
I don't blame bisu for the downfall of savior, I blame my friend Firebathero.
Savior was in a strong form up until he went down in flames versus fbh and he hasn't really recovered from that psychological aspect, as well as his last hurrah vs inter.mind, was the final nail in the coffin.
Savior's downfall is entirely psychological imo, not that he's simply losing skill. He doesn't have confidence, the same bold hiter-like arrogance he tore his opponents up with. And plus, he strangely performs better on maps that are bad for zvt and inversely worse on good zvt maps :/
On April 22 2008 13:27 B1nary wrote: As someone who got into the progaming scene around the height of sAviOr's dominance, it pains me to see him slumping like this. Maybe it's the timing, or maybe I'm really gay and I don't know it, but I have a strange emotional attachment to him. Every time he has a game coming up, I think "ok, maybe he'll come back this time!" ... but my hopes are always crushed. I don't know how much more sAviOr has and I don't know how much more love I can give him T____T
You have articulated my own feelings so perfectly. Bless you.
After todays match, Ma jae yoon is no longer qualified for ANY televised match in the individual leagues. He will have to fight through the offline qualifiers and the dual/survivor tournament to make it back in a league...... Lets hope now that he hit rock bottom he has the power to rise again. For now Savior is off the scene. At least there is one positive thing to it for us savior fans: It can't get worse anymore now. Farewell Ma Jae Yoon, I will always wait for the day of your return!
On May 10 2008 22:05 diehilde wrote: After todays match, Ma jae yoon is no longer qualified for ANY televised match in the individual leagues. He will have to fight through the offline qualifiers and the dual/survivor tournament to make it back in a league...... Lets hope now that he hit rock bottom he has the power to rise again. For now Savior is off the scene. At least there is one positive thing to it for us savior fans: It can't get worse anymore now. Farewell Ma Jae Yoon, I will always wait for the day of your return!
On May 10 2008 22:05 diehilde wrote: After todays match, Ma jae yoon is no longer qualified for ANY televised match in the individual leagues. He will have to fight through the offline qualifiers and the dual/survivor tournament to make it back in a league...... Lets hope now that he hit rock bottom he has the power to rise again. For now Savior is off the scene. At least there is one positive thing to it for us savior fans: It can't get worse anymore now. Farewell Ma Jae Yoon, I will always wait for the day of your return!
He's still in the GSI. I still have hope.
yeah ur right i forgot about that! although to be honest, I cant see him going anywhere in the next few months. dont be sad if he gets raped by subpar players
I'm bumping my own thread because, if you haven't heard the news, Savior is now CJ B-team. As I thought, the ace win over Yarnc in last season's Proleague playoffs was his last great hurrah for a long time. It's sad the shape he's in now, but ultimately I still applaud what he's accomplished in his career.
It's no coincidence that I haven't watched many games from the OSL/MSL this season. It's depressing that he can't even pass qualifiers. However, I've stopped being frustrated in every Savior game I watch, hoping for some miraculous return to his old ways. It's simply a shifting of expectations. I'm now content with success in any form, whether it be against bad players or great. For now, I'll take what I can get in the form of any Savior victory. Yes, this is lowering my standards, but I think he deserves it.
The shape he's in now doesn't change what he's accomplished in his career. From here on out, every win and qualification is simply a bonus. Cheers, MJY.
Its a bad sight to see savior like this but I don't really feel any sympathy for him. Other top players have had it tenfolds worse and they overcome boundaries with great courage.
I wouldn't give up on Savior just yet, he's got plenty of fight still left in him, he just needs his confidence back.
The club that all the new-wave watchers are about ~4 years late to: Reach, Kingdom, rA, Xellos, July, Boxer, Oov, Garimto, Yellow, Nada
Now you know our pain =/ Although I'll give you guys this much, savior [ to me he's always ipxzerg ] he's much weaker mentally than any of those I listed above.
Guys, I think everyone has omitted one crucial thing. Saviors have second-comings... Then again it's been 2000 years of waiting for SOMETHING, ANYTHING so far... *adjusts tie*
Seriously though, Savior's the one who got me back into starcraft. Because of him I'm now obsessed with the pro scene. I would go on and on about him to all my friends who incidentally do not like starcraft whatsoever. But even they seemed shocked when I brought up Savior's downfall in a recent discussion. I really really hope getting demoted brings him as much success as it did much. I have NO DOUBT that if Savior DESIRES it, he WILL make a return .
This is his first slump. As Atrioc said, Nada has had 30823. Much went B team, Xellos did too, etc. His first game versus ForGG showed so much domination the first half, it was ridiculous.
On June 26 2008 14:56 Ack1027 wrote: lol join the club?
The club that all the new-wave watchers are about ~4 years late to: Reach, Kingdom, rA, Xellos, July, Boxer, Oov, Garimto, Yellow, Nada
Now you know our pain =/ Although I'll give you guys this much, savior [ to me he's always ipxzerg ] he's much weaker mentally than any of those I listed above.
he's not "much weaker mentally" than any of those listed above, what are you talking about? he has many more 1st places than any of those guys (except for Nada) and during a more competitive time
and plus, can any multiple starleague winner be "much weaker mentally" than yellow??? you must be joking.
Actually, i somewhat agree with you... If you haven't already, check out game 1 vs ForGG and his latest series against Sea; also glance back to Savior vs Mind on Katrina and tell me Savior isn't looking better than he has been
The unfortunate thing is that he just doesn't seem to have the winning edge, and always collapses right before winning
On June 26 2008 14:56 Ack1027 wrote: lol join the club?
The club that all the new-wave watchers are about ~4 years late to: Reach, Kingdom, rA, Xellos, July, Boxer, Oov, Garimto, Yellow, Nada
Now you know our pain =/ Although I'll give you guys this much, savior [ to me he's always ipxzerg ] he's much weaker mentally than any of those I listed above.
he's not "much weaker mentally" than any of those listed above, what are you talking about? he has many more 1st places than any of those guys (except for Nada) and during a more competitive time
and plus, can any multiple starleague winner be "much weaker mentally" than yellow??? you must be joking.
Well yellow has his dashing good looks and pro poker skills (lol jk) to fall back on, so he will always be strong!
But really, we just need time to see if savior will come out of his slump. I miss you jesuszerg
I hope you guys show this thread to Savior when he plays TLattack, so he'll know what a huge following he has even overseas, even though technically the OP was about Savior's tragic decline and his heart-breaking realization of his fall into mediocrity... Maybe that'll be lost in translation.
On June 26 2008 14:56 Ack1027 wrote: lol join the club?
The club that all the new-wave watchers are about ~4 years late to: Reach, Kingdom, rA, Xellos, July, Boxer, Oov, Garimto, Yellow, Nada
Now you know our pain =/ Although I'll give you guys this much, savior [ to me he's always ipxzerg ] he's much weaker mentally than any of those I listed above.
he's not "much weaker mentally" than any of those listed above, what are you talking about? he has many more 1st places than any of those guys (except for Nada) and during a more competitive time
and plus, can any multiple starleague winner be "much weaker mentally" than yellow??? you must be joking.
Ok so I admit maybe not EVERY single one of those. Kingdom: Injury; Savior has never been injured enough to effect his game, if he was injured now [ meaning career threatening injury as was Kingdom's ] you think he'd be in better mental shape than he is now and try to stay in the game like Kingdom has as a coach, or otherwise?
rA: See HonestTea's final edit.
July: First ever Zerg starleague winner, the monumental pressure from that experience, not to mention he's still in contention for this ' currently competitive ' OSL meaning even after his long period of slump he still hangs.
Boxer: I won't comment here out of sake of the argument since I am obviously biased about Boxer, but I really do hope you don't actually think Savior is as mentally tough as this man.
Oov: Get a 80% win ratio on east bnet pubs is ridiculous let alone pro-scene. If you could replace Oov with Savior during Oov's time of dominance I'm willing to bet he couldn't keep up with the pressure to stay at that 80% or reach that kind of Elo.
Nada: Death of father, golden mouse.
Yellow: Yellow gets 3 timed bunker rushed in a fated meeting of the two most hyped players ever, entire semis last 15 minutes. If anything yellow is the only one comparable in mental weakness to savior simply because both lost 3-0. However Savior's loss has less of an effect imo because not only did Bisu take a vacation before this, they had no prior history if you compare it to Boxer/Yellow. Yea, yellow is a cheerleader for KTF, but Savior? Maybe if he and FBH were even in their meetups and he suddenly lost 3-0 to him in a final/semis, that would be comparable. To the best of my knowledge none of those that I listed ever had as much trouble beating one player in any given point in their career [ maybe nada vs oov ] as Savior does vs FBH/Bisu. To me that's a quick flag of mental weakness not lack of technical skill.
Yes that just happened. Our favorite player in the world has pulled himself back together and has won Blizzcon undefeated. Victims of rape? Cloud, Jangbi, Forgg, and Nada. Yes we just witnessed another Savior vs. Nada final and although it was not as epic in terms of the quality of the games as say his OSL win, the emotions and consequences of this final is significant. For months we have had to keep faith in him while he failed to go far in proleague and starleagues. It was frustrating, and sometimes downright scary (at least for me) such as when he was demoted to the B team. But our <3 for the Maestro is more than just results and it's certainly more than just fucking liquibet points; it's also his spirit and class.
No offense to hotbid but I can't help feel happy when somebody judges someone with absolute certainty only to be proven wrong, to some extent at least.
Everyone wants Savior to return to his former glory. But realistically, with the wave of talent out there, it's impossible to predict who will win any major tournament.
On October 13 2008 01:25 aRod wrote: Everyone wants Savior to return to his former glory. But realistically, with the wave of talent out there, it's impossible to predict who will win any major tournament.
Yep. Though I have to admit, he seems to have improved his mechanics judging from game 2 of the final (I only saw the final so far - only games I've found). If that wasn't only a temporary energy boost, but constant, he might bring enough late game power to the table again to compete with the likes of Jaedong and Flash in 2009. I'm still very unsure about that though. Game sense and cute actions will only win him a few games these days, he needs to be better in standard play again.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9406/thatshotak6.png)
![[image loading]](http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8505/showimage2ga5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2035/saviormotivationaluj0.jpg)
