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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:58 Last Romantic wrote: Right. Midas and co. are not Brett Favre. Midas isn't under 18, he's 20 and there are people in the NBA younger than he is. I agree with OGN's decision but the age difference in this issue is immaterial. If it were Flash, it'd be a much stronger argument, but Midas, no. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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SonuvBob
Aiur21552 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances." I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really. Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this. Well this is basically the minor leagues, and with OSL delayed by tiebreakers, adding another OSC week won't disrupt the schedule. So the only ones really affected at all are the other players in the group, who are probably happy to defer for Midas' sake, and the fans who'd want to watch on Wednesday, the majority of whom don't want to see Midas get kicked while he's down, and would rather see 5 games than 3 (if he dropped out). | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Also, unless I'm missing something here, the leagues don't charge for tickets? (Or did I make stupid assumption -_- ) So the leagues are less obligated in that manner as well. | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On November 13 2007 02:20 oneofthem wrote: you are either hating on midas or not appreciating how huge a parent funeral is in korea. No, those aren't the only two choices. I said that OGN and Anytime/Shark/Xellos should be commended for allowing the delay (if the players had a say in it), and that in this situation it's probably the right result, for various reasons including watchability (who wants to watch 3 games instead of 5), the bad publicity, etc. But I'm also saying it's unfair for the 3 other players that it's being delayed and that the more "just" action would be to play the group and leave it to Midas to decide whether he wants to withdraw or play or not. I'd say the same thing whether it was Boxer or Savior or Mumyung. It has nothing to do with "hating" on Midas. And if a parental funeral is culturally that important, Midas can withdraw from the OSC group. Again, this the unfairness is pointless because the other three players have said they are fine with the delay. But what if they weren't? Then OGN should play it. I can agree with the moral reasoning behind the decision to postpone but still think it's unfair without hating on Midas or Korean culture. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
a quick glance, some examples And if a parental funeral is culturally that important, Midas can withdraw from the OSC group. You are making a wild assertion here without declaring it. I will present a different conclusion with a different set of positive appeals. If the tournament organizers respect both Midas' professional commitments and personal circumstances,with a commitment to make the situation the best for everyone, they postpone the matches. since you have not asserted the respective commitments that each side should be expected to hold, it is difficult to hold you to them specifically, but it is clear that you attribute too much duty to midas and not enough to the rest. this is perhaps a peculiar symptom of looking at the world through permissions and rights. but in any case, going into the finer distinctions between positive commitment and negative permission will not be all that well received. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
I've already violated that a bit in this thread, but I've decided for my sake to stop right now. So we'll just have to disagree, I'm okay with that. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
It's a pretty gross group besides wankster shark. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
Yes, very sick group. | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On November 13 2007 08:56 SuperJongMan wrote: It's a pretty gross group besides wankster shark. c'mon, Shark isn't that bad. He's qualified for the leagues before. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27180 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
My point was what would've happened if Anytime or someone else in that group knew they would be very busy at the date that it was postponed to, and protested? Would it be up to OGN? I know in this case it worked out because it was so obvious what the right thing was to do--I mean it doesn't get much more sad than a parent's death--but in the future, and in more borderline cases, they may have to address the unfairness of it. Kudos to Anytime/Shark/Xellos for being cool about it, though given the nature of Korean progaming as you said, it's probably not a big surprise they didn't mind. | ||
CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
On November 13 2007 09:17 Manifesto7 wrote: I think the nature of progaming is different than that of other professional sports though. The community is pretty small and close knit. Players from different teams often practice with one another for upcoming matches, and players/managers accommodate others in their preparations. Players travel together to other, non-OGN/MBC events to play as well. Because of these relationships that are at both a personal and professional level, I think everyone involved would be happier to delay it. I also do not think this is only an OGN decision, but a decision reached upon by all members involved. It is far different from the nature of the other leagues you mentioned. I disagree. In many other professional sports, friendships grow between athletes who play for competing teams, particularly the athletes who excel at the sport. One well-known example that comes to mind is the friendship between Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley (I think that they were friends before the dream team, but I'm not sure. In any case, there are many other examples). Because of the required physical nature of practicing with someone in conventional sports, it's naturally more difficult to practice with someone on another team than for an online game. It seems these friendships form more "on the battle-field", as it were, so while different in its founding, I don't think its necessarily different in its nature. These sorts of friendships can be found in pro BW too, I think, and perhaps even meld with the "practice-buddy" friendship. | ||
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
The differences between pro-starcraft and American sports leagues are important, and shouldn't be changed just to be more "sports like". | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
On November 13 2007 10:48 CTStalker wrote: I disagree. In many other professional sports, friendships grow between athletes who play for competing teams, particularly the athletes who excel at the sport. One well-known example that comes to mind is the friendship between Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley (I think that they were friends before the dream team, but I'm not sure. In any case, there are many other examples). Because of the required physical nature of practicing with someone in conventional sports, it's naturally more difficult to practice with someone on another team than for an online game. It seems these friendships form more "on the battle-field", as it were, so while different in its founding, I don't think its necessarily different in its nature. These sorts of friendships can be found in pro BW too, I think, and perhaps even meld with the "practice-buddy" friendship. Your example seems more of an exception to the rule (at least in the sports I follow). Of course players exchange some words sometimes. But when the player base is this small, and players practice with each other a lot, and they travel together, some live together or know each other from internet playing a long time ago (specially when they are in the same country), things change. | ||
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mensrea
Canada5062 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances." I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really. Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this. While I agree it does not appear very "professional", and I would personally prefer that the matches went ahead as you suggested, the move by OGN and the other players is understandable in the current Korean context. Actually, it's almost unavoidable. Death is obviously a sensitive issue in every culture, but the Koreans attach particular significance to it and it would be tantamount to political suicide for any person, group or organization (commercial or otherwise) to appear indifferent or callous in such case. I am not necessarily suggesting that OGN and the other players are not, in fact, sympathetic to Midas's circumstances (I'm sure they are), but putting personal convictions aside, they probably had little choice but to agree to the postponement. No one enjoys being cyber-terrorized and burned in effigy, afterall. | ||
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gakkgakk
Norway902 Posts
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BeatsMe97
Korea (South)5 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances." I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really. Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this. totally agree except for a few things that you're missing. first, the singularity of korean (cyber) culture. if the tournament proceeded as scheduled and midas lost, how would you think fans(not to mention "his fans") are going to react? all the blames falls into SKT and OGN's ears. it's not so professional decision, i know, but couch Ju and OGN has made the most "optimal" decision. at least i think so. i recommend you study some korean and then try websurfing and read the dirty words from sc-relevant sites if you really want to know what could happen when things go the other way around. it wouldnt be so hard for you to imagine what could possibly follows. second, progamers're pros but they're still just kids (at least in korea). i'm not being too subjective. many koreans dont consider progamers as full-fledged grown-ups. team staffs, cabletv casters and even their fans think progamers constantly need to be attended to. even if midas has decided to play as planned, couch Ju probably would have persuaded not to. | ||
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