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Qikz
United Kingdom12029 Posts
On March 09 2023 15:34 MeSaber wrote: Without capitalism everyone would be sitting on their asses doing nothing. It incentivize creativity and innovation. I... I'm not going to even attempt to argue with this but this is just completely wrong. | ||
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
On March 09 2023 16:39 oxKnu wrote: Keep in mind that this is South Korea where a common above-average salary is 110K/yr. It's a high-income country. Probably the highest where BW actually has/had a following. I actually think that's one of the reasons the game is not dead yet. It might be common for a tech employee to make north of $100k (USD), but the median household income is around $20-25k USD, with decently employed people making around $40k USD/year. Their cost of living is definitely lower than most US cities, but it's expensive relative to the median income. I'm always skeptical of these streamer numbers, but if it's true, they're all doing incredibly well. Even sOs over here making a living off of balloons. Britney obviously has a huge following, but it's always amazed me that there are still so many people interested in watching people play this old-ass game. Stuff like Melee is popular in the west despite it's age (and I'd argue it aged way better), but there are only 3 melee streamers that reach 6 digits from streaming. There just isn't that kind of widespread support. Odd how these things end up. I guess a lot of Koreans just really like these guys! Without capitalism everyone would be sitting on their asses doing nothing. It incentivize creativity and innovation. o ok. Ironically, these streamers are quite literally sitting on their asses and effectively doing nothing. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden535 Posts
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TMNT
3139 Posts
On March 09 2023 18:34 A.Alm wrote: I don't trust that this is what they're making. It's unreasonable much considering the number of viewers. You can verify it yourself. It's quite easy. At 8-10pm KST, turn on the stream of one of the popular pros (say Shuttle or Bisu) when they crowdfund for Major Proleague (for example https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/99316078?change_second=13619) and see the balloons pouring in. Look at Shuttle's notepad: that's 8300 balloons per winner (4), which mean 33k balloons in total, which means on average each of the player gathered ~ 400k KRW in 15 minutes (a bit low yesterday, typically it's ~ 500k KRW or even more). Say a player plays 15 Proleagues per month and win 50% of them, that means he earns 6m KRW per month from Proleague alone, not counting other donations during their stream (sponmatches, or when they have a good game), prize money from tournaments, sponsorship, ads, youtube revenue, etc. It's not hard to imagine the average top pros earn 10m KRW per month. | ||
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TMNT
3139 Posts
This site record (roughly) their earning from Proleague. If you filtered for February: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/rHdTJ8u.png) Most of them earned close to 10m KRW for playing 15-18 proleagues a month (apart from Bisu who won 2 lost 8 lol). | ||
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TMNT
3139 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/5s3uZSU.png) Holy shit they ended up hoarding 18M KRW in total prize. Winning team takes it all. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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A.Alm
Sweden535 Posts
On March 09 2023 19:00 TMNT wrote: You can verify it yourself. It's quite easy. At 8-10pm KST, turn on the stream of one of the popular pros (say Shuttle or Bisu) when they crowdfund for Major Proleague (for example https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/99316078?change_second=13619) and see the balloons pouring in. Look at Shuttle's notepad: that's 8300 balloons per winner (4), which mean 33k balloons in total, which means on average each of the player gathered ~ 400k KRW in 15 minutes (a bit low yesterday, typically it's ~ 500k KRW or even more). Say a player plays 15 Proleagues per month and win 50% of them, that means he earns 6m KRW per month from Proleague alone, not counting other donations during their stream (sponmatches, or when they have a good game), prize money from tournaments, sponsorship, ads, youtube revenue, etc. It's not hard to imagine the average top pros earn 10m KRW per month. If the numbers are right then that's really good for brood war. At the same time, a bit sad that the rest of the BW community combined barely generate any money. | ||
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redknights
206 Posts
On March 09 2023 06:50 RowdierBob wrote: For the guys who make a ton of money but aren’t close to the top tier of players anymore, what are their streams like? Are they more a variety streamer so a bunch of games and lifestyle type stuff? It’s fascinating what the average joe spends their money on. The top top earners are more focused on "보라" = abbreviation for "보이는 라디오" = "radio you can see". Streams are based on their entertaining personalities. Britney and Terror are more 보라 streamers who used to play Brood War. Sea is chiefly a 보라 streamer, but dabbles a lot in BW when opportunities arise, such as the University craze last year and now the burgeoning Academy system growing now. Rain has gone over to more 보라 than BW, but still plays at times though not competitively Shuttle might be the best of both worlds, he is extremely popular as a streamer, but also is very involved in the competitive scene with daily proleague participation Also do not underestimate the power of "큰손" = "big hand" indiviudal donators/viewers who are ridiculously rich and literally throw thousands of dollars at streamers. Even if you aren't popular, if you have some 큰손 donators, you can make a really good living | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2550 Posts
On March 09 2023 01:07 Zografa wrote: well, average salary in Seoul is about 40k$ per year, so 50 starcrafters earn that or better... what can i say, i think being top50 on earth in BroodWar is pretty damn hard. And to be top5 is almost insane. The skill and practice time is incredible. I know that some of those that earn above 40k$ are not really top50 but they are close enough. Also Snow who i consider top1-3 right now is at about average in that list ... Thing is, the top 50 earners are not the top 50 skilled, at all. Quite a bit of them are there mostly because they are entertaining. | ||
Falling
Canada11495 Posts
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jinjin5000
United States1495 Posts
On March 09 2023 16:39 oxKnu wrote: Keep in mind that this is South Korea where a common above-average salary is 110K/yr. It's a high-income country. Probably the highest where BW actually has/had a following. I actually think that's one of the reasons the game is not dead yet. ? Where are you getting this info? It's closer to 30-40k | ||
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Gescom
Canada3510 Posts
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RJBTV
194 Posts
On March 10 2023 07:37 sM.Zik wrote: Thing is, the top 50 earners are not the top 50 skilled, at all. Quite a bit of them are there mostly because they are entertaining. Entertainment factor is the most important factor. It is why the entire concept of doing "troll builds vs lower level players" is so much of a success. Koreans find it super entertaining to watch. Its why Snow vs Artosis video got such a huge amount of views on Snow's channel. It has both Snow trolling and Artosis raging and despairing. 600K views. youtu.be Or this flash playing fastest map vs 458!!!(a fastest map protoss gosu) with 1 million views because he makes it dramatic. youtu.be | ||
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oxKnu
1256 Posts
On March 10 2023 11:16 jinjin5000 wrote: ? Where are you getting this info? It's closer to 30-40k https://teleport.org/cities/seoul/salaries/ I like to look at "dentist" when comparing salaries around the world. It's a necessity for every human on the planet earth and is actually a good universal metric that is quite resilient to market volatities (location, policy etc) I did say above average, I'm not talking about unskilled workers. Those are and will continue to be beaten down with garbage wages for the rest of time. (imho) Fact is, SK is a high income country, especially Seoul. 100K is not the fortune that that would be in East Russia for example. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On March 09 2023 17:15 Qikz wrote: I... I'm not going to even attempt to argue with this but this is just completely wrong. Good argument. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On March 09 2023 18:15 Blargh wrote: o ok. Ironically, these streamers are quite literally sitting on their asses and effectively doing nothing. They are providing entertainment just as a movie does. | ||
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Galacsia
Chile163 Posts
On March 09 2023 17:15 Qikz wrote: I... I'm not going to even attempt to argue with this but this is just completely wrong. They're providing entertainment to thousands of people who are willingly paying to see someone exploit what they consider valuable, in this case high skill in Brood War and funny personalities. | ||
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TMNT
3139 Posts
On March 11 2023 00:24 Galacsia wrote: The numbers have to be somewhat inflated right? I mean, when a team loses in proleague, they have to donate balloons to the winner team if I'm not mistaken. Yeah but the winning team gets all of that so it's balanced out. Someone like Shuttle who gets a lot of donations but doesn't win a lot may be inflated, but there will always be a Royal or a Light somewhere who benefits from that xD. | ||
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