On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build...
Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks.
He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/Valkonic
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rekt
I find it very odd that Flash skips a vulture with this build. I feel like the scouting information and pressure you get from the vulture is vital to keeping the Zerg honest and preventing them from cutting corners so they can get fast mutas, a 3rd base, and nonstop drones all at the same time.
EDIT: Also, kudos to the OP for putting together this doc! I used to track build orders from SC2, so I know how much work goes into this.
On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build...
Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks.
He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/Valkonic
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rekt
Get rekt yourself, he just screams Fantasy and spouting nonsense without having a clue. The build order, I wrote down there was from the ABC Mart finals Flash vs Zero, where Flash did this multiple times.
On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build...
Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks.
He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/Valkonic
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rekt
Get rekt yourself, he just screams Fantasy and spouting nonsense without having a clue. The build order, I wrote down there was from the ABC Mart finals Flash vs Zero, where Flash did this multiple times.
I wasn't trying to burn you or anything, I just found the build order back then. Oov Fake mech was first though ^^ <3
On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build...
Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks.
He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/Valkonic
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rekt
Get rekt yourself, he just screams Fantasy and spouting nonsense without having a clue. The build order, I wrote down there was from the ABC Mart finals Flash vs Zero, where Flash did this multiple times.
I wasn't trying to burn you or anything, I just found the build order back then. Oov Fake mech was first though ^^ <3
No harm, no foul, it's just the typical internet these days, someone makes unsubstantiated claims and the next clueless person picks it up and you get reactions like this. If you mean using valks combined with bio in general, you are probably right. But I don't remember anyone ever going valkyries with Rax FE vs 2 Hatch, only with Fac FE.
On April 13 2020 14:07 Geographer wrote: Why would someone want to copy a losing build order?
He won 2/3 games he did it on.
and he only lost with it because he forced the build on Hitchhiker (made tanks which weakened his comp), that wasn't a good map for his b.o
Valk b.o is good on standard maps (vs 2h) where z can't take a backdoor exp. That said, u need to macro perfectly while babysitting your army after you move out. Your multitask gets tested post move out.
The key thing with his b.o that sets it a part from previous versions is Flash's double scv scout (this is the main adjustment he made to the build). If you can't confirm that Z made a spire you have to respect the threat of a lurk bust. You can't tech up to valks blindly without any scouting info (aca is obviously delayed for eco boost so you won't have scans).
Flash excels at optimizing builds, he'll tweak an old build to gain a edge in an attempt to break the current meta/put his opponents in an uncomfortable spot. Imagine going to a tourney and having your most standard b.o hard countered, that's a terrible feeling. In that scenario, you have to be smart/experienced enough to adjust on the fly to avoid getting b.o bullied by Flash (which is what ZerO did on Sylphid).
Without any scv scouting info you have to change the build to what Flash did on Sylphid, he tried to turn it into more of a "catch all build" by accounting for both mutas and lurks. Still wasn't enough tho, maybe 2 bunks @ his nat woulda been enough but that would have weakened his mech play vs mutas.
I know for a fact who actually came up with this build order (they're on my friends list) and newsflash, it wasn't FLASH! This build is optimal vs muta but actually insanely strong vs lurker openings too, denying the z ability to morph lurkers by hunting ovies with valks is insanely OP.
On April 14 2020 06:54 Models wrote: I know for a fact who actually came up with this build order (they're on my friends list) and newsflash, it wasn't FLASH! This build is optimal vs muta but actually insanely strong vs lurker openings too, denying the z ability to morph lurkers by hunting ovies with valks is insanely OP.
This is a very 2004 Battle.net clan channel comment.
On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build...
Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks.
He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/Valkonic
There were some variations where people would go Goliath/Bio as well (I think all from SKT, including FanTaSy) which is what we see from FlaSh now. Sorry bought it back a few months ago and used it in some online tournaments and it appears FlaSh has been iterating on that.
Are the previous valk builds the same? I was under the impression that they were weak to 2 hatch mutas, not a counter to 2 hatch mutas.
On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build...
Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks.
He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/Valkonic
There were some variations where people would go Goliath/Bio as well (I think all from SKT, including FanTaSy) which is what we see from FlaSh now. Sorry bought it back a few months ago and used it in some online tournaments and it appears FlaSh has been iterating on that.
Are the previous valk builds the same? I was under the impression that they were weak to 2 hatch mutas, not a counter to 2 hatch mutas.
On April 14 2020 17:04 zoNin wrote: lol it was Artosis whispering and he said "Don't see that every game" not what you think
But it is good thing. Effort caused Flash build two science facilities and Zero cancel control tower. Judging from yesterday, Flash played a long Sk-terrangame against Larva so it was not healthissue that caused this build to surface.
I remember Last using a valk/bio build plus tanks and went for macro against Soulkey on Autobahn several seasons ago, I suppose it was ASL6. I'll check the game later, since I don't recall neither opener.
On April 14 2020 18:17 TaardadAiel wrote: I remember Last using a valk/bio build plus tanks and went for macro against Soulkey on Autobahn several seasons ago, I suppose it was ASL6. I'll check the game later, since I don't recall neither opener.
You mean this game against Soulkey? It was normal 2 rax academy but instead of vessels Last went first valkyries.
On April 14 2020 06:54 Models wrote: I know for a fact who actually came up with this build order (they're on my friends list) and newsflash, it wasn't FLASH! This build is optimal vs muta but actually insanely strong vs lurker openings too, denying the z ability to morph lurkers by hunting ovies with valks is insanely OP.
Ehh.. Valks arent really that good vs overlords. Wraiths do more DPS than wraiths, and theyre cheaper, and theyre earlier in the tech tree. If terran wants to hunt overlords, they can just go with the 1-1-1 build and hunt overlords with the wraiths from the starport.
On April 14 2020 18:17 TaardadAiel wrote: I remember Last using a valk/bio build plus tanks and went for macro against Soulkey on Autobahn several seasons ago, I suppose it was ASL6. I'll check the game later, since I don't recall neither opener.
On April 14 2020 06:54 Models wrote: I know for a fact who actually came up with this build order (they're on my friends list) and newsflash, it wasn't FLASH! This build is optimal vs muta but actually insanely strong vs lurker openings too, denying the z ability to morph lurkers by hunting ovies with valks is insanely OP.
Ehh.. Valks arent really that good vs overlords. Wraiths do more DPS than wraiths, and theyre cheaper, and theyre earlier in the tech tree. If terran wants to hunt overlords, they can just go with the 1-1-1 build and hunt overlords with the wraiths from the starport.
but valks shoot more missiles than wraiths so it deals more damage ok?
EPT
User:Cryoc/Valkonic
