I doubt organizers thought there would be foot on keyboard level showmanship when they ok'd it lmao.
Noone thought larva would show his streaming style on tournement grand finals.
I think its more to Zotac having to save face now that theres public outrage in china, but its understandable. It was hilarious but damaging to company image if it went on unpunished due to the outrage. I doubt anyone would be surprised by this move.
Larva smashing a chinese player while offracing + nuking, playing with his feet and laying down on his chair was bound to trigger many people. But man, this is so entertaining. i love Larva.
On December 05 2017 00:38 Superouman wrote: Larva smashing a chinese player while offracing + nuking, playing with his feet and laying down on his chair was bound to trigger many people. But man, this is so entertaining. i love Larva.
If it's some random Chinese player, sure. But this is one of the best Chinese Protoss players in BW and a legendary old school foreigner, dude deserves some respect.
I'm not a fan of BM of any form, even if one player is light years ahead of another, I got flack for sharing this opinion the other day too.
People who say it is him being a "showman" or something are wrong, most showing off has always been done out of or after the game and if it isn't people get hate for it. Also most "BM" or showmanship is because of one player calling out another ect.
In my opinion it's like a professional player going to a local league baseball game and batting backwards, or running around the bases backwards to show off. You can disagree with that comparison but it's not far off, it's disrespectful.
Just look what country zotac is from and you will understand
yikes, that's very rude to chinese people. But I'm not surprised with koreans these days when talking about other asian countries like china.
I think that larva put on a great show! Really enjoyed the matches, and I'm glad that he made the games interesting. If legend didn't want to get wrecked so hard, don't compete- or get better. More publicity to broodwar is always better. Larva made the trending, front page on reddit. IMO starcraft needs a bigger community, and this is a great start.
On December 05 2017 01:49 razorsuKe wrote: Well this has officially hit the front page of reddit giving more exposure to bw, so good or bad, publicity is publicity
On December 05 2017 00:38 Superouman wrote: Larva smashing a chinese player while offracing + nuking, playing with his feet and laying down on his chair was bound to trigger many people. But man, this is so entertaining. i love Larva.
If it's some random Chinese player, sure. But this is one of the best Chinese Protoss players in BW and a legendary old school foreigner, dude deserves some respect.
You'd think one of the best players would be able to beat someone playing with their foot then, huh?
I think it’s pretty much inarguable that what Larva did was rude and disrespectful given that his opponent was not in on the joke. It’s patently obvious that it will be insulting in these circumstances. I don’t think Larva was being malicious, but it really reflects poorly on his self-judgment that this wasn’t apparent to him.
What does amaze me is the level of vitriol we’re seeing in the defenses put forward for Larva by various people in this thread and elsewhere. The most common seems to be that Larva’s antics made the series more entertaining and that Lx would have lost anyways. Well, no shit? What’s that got to do with whether it was rude or insulting or offensive? Larva does these things on his stream all the time, but that’s a different context than doing it in a livecasted LAN showmatch where *everyone* knows he is the overwhelming favorite and where he has basically been given a free trip to the US to be handed a $10k check. Another is "maybe Lx should have won if he didn't like it" or "maybe Lx should get good instead of crying." Again...???? What's that got to do with whether it was insulting or rude?
It seems incredibly difficult for some people to hold these two ideas in their mind simultaneously: that what Larva did was rude, but that they also found it entertaining. I guess the conclusion that follows--that you enjoyed something that many found to be meanspirited--is too much to admit? Therefore Larva was entirely justified and there is no issue whatsoever despite the objective fact that there seems to be a 50/50 split between that opinion and the opinion that it was rude and insulting? (and again--it doesn't need to be a split, because the two ideas can exist simultaneously). Come on.
I honestly feel like if you can’t see this you’re either still a teenager who’s never had to interact in the adult world or you’re the kind of person who is completely socially oblivious and is a pain in the ass for those in your social orbit.
On December 05 2017 02:03 Chrysanthemum wrote: I think it’s pretty much inarguable that what Larva did was rude and disrespectful given that his opponent was not in on the joke. It’s patently obvious that it will be insulting in these circumstances. I don’t think Larva was being malicious, but it really reflects poorly on his self-judgment that this wasn’t apparent to him.
What does amaze me is the level of vitriol we’re seeing in the defenses put forward for Larva by various people in this thread and elsewhere. The most common seems to be that Larva’s antics made the series more entertaining and that Lx would have lost anyways. Well, no shit? What’s that got to do with whether it was rude or insulting or offensive? Larva does these things on his stream all the time, but that’s a different context than doing it in a livecasted LAN showmatch where *everyone* knows he is the overwhelming favorite and where he has basically been given a free trip to the US to be handed a $10k check. Another is "maybe Lx should have won if he didn't like it" or "maybe Lx should get good instead of crying." Again...???? What's that got to do with whether it was insulting or rude?
It seems incredibly difficult for some people to hold these two ideas in their mind simultaneously: that what Larva did was rude, but that they also found it entertaining. I guess the conclusion that follows--that you enjoyed something that many found to be meanspirited--is too much to admit? Therefore Larva was entirely justified and there is no issue whatsoever despite the objective fact that there seems to be a 50/50 split between that opinion and the opinion that it was rude and insulting? (and again--it doesn't need to be a split, because the two ideas can exist simultaneously). Come on.
I honestly feel like if you can’t see this you’re either still a teenager who’s never had to interact in the adult world or you’re the kind of person who is completely socially oblivious and is a pain in the ass for those in your social orbit.
Guy below you summed you up perfectly, "itz just a game dood" /s
If Lx lost vs someone playing with their foot, I don't see how it's not disrespectful to expect Larva to play a serious match against him. Like if I would race vs Usain Bolt and got mad if he'd start in a sleeping position. Or would you guys preferred a 5 min stomp with barely anything lost for Larva?
On December 05 2017 02:09 konadora wrote: still dont understand why legend is so butthurt when this was a showmatch
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that this was some serious starleague and not just a fun "final boss" type showmatch mini-tournament at the end of a live event.
On December 05 2017 01:58 ICanFlyLow wrote: Do korean progamers have some idea that when they go overseas they can do whatever stupid thing they want?
Hmm I see TONS of americans doing just that here in korea. Ofc not only americans, but I rarely meet people from other countries, so I can't really know. Most people do not have much respect when they travel tbh.
If some of you don't think putting your literal foot on the table in a match, when your opponent literally sits a couple feet from you isn't a serious insult and doesn't deserve an apology then OK.
On December 05 2017 02:38 digmouse wrote: If some of you don't think putting your literal foot on the table in a match, when your opponent literally sits a couple feet from you isn't a serious insult and doesn't deserve an apology then OK.
Video games dude.
Idk, maybe it's just because I'm really into fighting games but that doesn't really seem like that big of a deal.
On December 05 2017 02:38 digmouse wrote: If some of you don't think putting your literal foot on the table in a match, when your opponent literally sits a couple feet from you isn't a serious insult and doesn't deserve an apology then OK.
Video games dude.
Idk, maybe it's just because I'm really into fighting games but that doesn't really seem like that big of a deal.
Some fighting games and Smogon Pokemon are the only grassroots gaming communities left.
Can't relate at all to this or really understand why.
If a Norwegian player did this to a Swedish player then props to him, maybe I'd be angry, not just laugh at it but I can't see why it shouldn't be up to the players to play anyway they like. BW is more than just gameplay, also a mental game. Getting into your opponents head is also a part of it just like in boxing or Chess.
I'm thinking it must be a cultural thing. Is it? How's the relationship between South Korea and China? How do the players feel about eachother? I know that Koreans take great pride in their nation etc. Same thing in China, Is that playing a big part here?
Larva is just too naive. He didn't know about the consequences. Why Zotac invite Legend from China? It's not because of his skills, it's because of the huge China gaming market.
After Larva's showtime, every people in China will be against Zotac for sure. Just like Chinese people against Korea Lemart. And Lemart goes bankruptcy.
Let's see what will happen Larva just put Zotac in a shitty position right now. Nice Job!
Legend is a retired starcraft: BW player, and that is the first thing you should know in your mind. So this statement would kill off anyone says "he should get better." "if he got defeated by feet, he shouldn't compete." He is retired so this tournament invite him just for attracting more of Chinese viewers.
Second, as everyone said, Larva should get permission to do these things. Think about it, if Zach Galifianakis didn't communicate or inform those scripts(mostly insults) to his guest, will any guest attend the show Between Two Ferns With Zach Galifianakis?
Feet on the table is a terrible manner in Asian culture. It is a way to insult others by all means. Just like Legend says, Larva can use anything in-game to show off, like massing nuke. but feet? no.
If you want to perform this kind of insulting to make the match entertain you should communicate with your opponent first.
Zotac's CEO is a big fan of Starcraft in China and I am curious what he will do next.
Just to be clear: Larva didn't beat Legend playing with his foot. What happened is: Legend went 2 gates and attacked Larva's natural, which he defended easily. By then Larva was using 2 hands and the commentators were actually making fun of him for being cocky, because he was using just the mouse at the start of the game but when the drone building stage passed he went back to normal, at which point Incontrol says sarcastically (one of the things that made many people think he's pissed): "so his idea of a handicap is to use 1 hand for the moments when you don't need 2 hands?".
The game goes on a bit and Legend attacks again, this time Larva has 2 sunkens and enough lings, but it's still kinda 50\50 fight. When it becomes super fucking clear the attack has failed, Larva places his foot on the keyboard, presses A couple of times, presses S+D, end of game, end of story.
On December 05 2017 03:18 HansenZ wrote: It's saying Larva is forever banned from Zotac cup. Zotac apologizes to Legend. And Larva lied on getting permission to do that.
I don't think Larva would make up a lie like that. I think it's more likely that he asked them if it was okay for him to show off some, but I don't think Zotac expected this level of showmanship, which is where the problem lies.
This is like when the Wizards were mad at the Warriors a while back for showboating and having fun during their game. I know it's not fun to be the target of BM by a superior player, but why cry about it? Learn from the experience and keep practicing.
I agree that Respect should of been shown to Legend and any player in a major tournament like this, especially Legend, he has always been a reputable player.
What? Is it legit true that Larva is banned from future events? This is your thankfulness to him to making things entertaining and luring viewership? Well go fuck yourselves. C'mon Larva, you already owned and pissed to these noobs. Good luck next ASL where you going to show who's Final Boss.
There are several threads floating around BW General that are all pertaining to the same topic. Let's keep it all in one thread for the sake of coherence.
EPT
