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On September 07 2017 01:36 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 01:08 Jae Zedong wrote:
All over the internet, every time someone criticizes a company, there will be a few smug apologists pointing out that companies exist to make a profit. "It's not a charity, guys!"
As if pointing out how capitalism works would make criticism of that company any less valid. Yes, it's hilarious. They took an economics 101 course one time in high school and they think they understand everything. Always the same story every time something shady happens in gaming. "Companies exist to make money" etc. But they don't remember literally the next thing that comes after it, which is "and consumers are supposed to exercise their rights to keep companies honest". Stating that companies exist to make money is a truism more or less. Using such statements with the implication "therefore stop complaining" is fundamentally anti-consumer and betrays an ironic and fundamental lack of understanding of economics. No, consumers ARE SUPPOSED TO COMPLAIN, otherwise they will slowly get fucked. That's how the system was envisioned to begin with. But that's the Reddit generation for you, only reading or remembering the first 5 words of anything and then getting up in arms and over it to prove how smart they are.
All over the internet, everytime a company takes action to protect what is theirs, some smug people point out that they are assholes and only in it to make a few quick bucks. It's hilarious, It's like people read a crash course on intellectual property law and they think they understand how everything works.
Yeah because going apeshit over one article stating that 88k USD is the license fee while not even bothering to weigh in other factors and blindly believing the words of an article that 95 % of the people in here can't even read seems like the smart thing to do here.
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well... i have no idea about alot of other companies. but capcom & sony atleast give out free PS4s and other stuff to Street Fighter TOs if their tournament becomes a part of the Capcom Pro Tour. Which btw. include mostly fan made tournaments which became big. Sometimes even smaller tournaments get free advertisement stuff.
Oh, EVO got an additional 10k to their price pool last year provided by capcom.
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When Blizzard took KeSPA to court, the result of which was the demise of the professional Brood War scene.
On October 23 2010 17:59 merz wrote:
I'm surprised that so many people are blindly supporting kespa. KeSPA has done some shady and questionable things under their "time" and I don't see the moral issue here. Blizzard made both games, as most of you have mentioned, none of us are read up on Korean Law about IP rights, but I have a hard time seeing how they'd have vastly different views on IP than pretty much any other country out there.
Legally Blizzard SHOULD be fine. "Should" because again, I'm not very well ready in korean law. Also KeSPA has been douches for such a long time, none of you remember the shit they pulled during the GomTV SC/BW leagues? I'm all for Blizzard in this one, take it to court!
When the news listing the details of one of the reasons why competitive Brood War may be struggling to grow further.
On September 06 2017 20:07 merz wrote:
The hefty sum aside, come on guys, Blizzard is a company with shareholders like every other company. Are you expecting them to allow a third party using their intellectual property to no cost at all? Calling them assholes because they are protecting their own interests isn't really fair.
On September 06 2017 20:27 merz wrote:
Besides you'd also have to consider what damage someone like ASL could do to Blizzards trademarks if they were allowed these things without little or no involvement from Blizzard themselves.
Couple that with the fact that Blizzard allows you to host as many tournaments you like as long as the price money does not exceed 10 000 USD or 50 000 USD in total over the course of year. This while leaving all the revenue (up to 100 000 USD) to the company hosting the tournament and it's also under the condition that the tournament is free of charge to watch on i.e. Twitch.tv and on site.
I'd say that's pretty fair to the consumers, viewers and the tournament organizers.
So no I don't agree on that Blizzard is Killing E-sports or that they are assholes.
How willing you are to abandon the Brood War scene as long as Blizzard shares your vision of what constitutes an "amazing" scene.
On April 15 2017 18:36 merz wrote:
This is a really weird mindset. People, including myself, left Brood war for SC2 not because it was the better game at that specific time, but because it had potential to be something amazing. It had Blizzard backing it up as an esport, it had a ton of new players, it unified pretty much all genres of RTS-players. It was a chance for a fresh start and to build something from the ground up.
You have time and time again voiced your displeasure towards the Korean Brood War scene, but have been surprisingly patient with how Blizzard dealt with competitive Brood War over the years. Further more, it seems that a global e-Sports scene under the rule of Blizzard seems to be your cup of tea, rather than concern for the health of the last stronghold for competitive Brood War. The Korean Brood War scene is far from perfect, but it provided more content for people with a strong love for competitive Brood War than Blizzard could ever hope to imagine. If your idea of utopia is one where Blizzard takes all control, so be it, but don't you dare mock those who love Brood War with your insincere tone of voice.
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O:
Every LetMeLose post is a well written analysis!!
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lol to this merz guy, what a joke.
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On September 07 2017 09:33 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 00:27 Jae Zedong wrote:
Anyone know what Blizzard's fees for SC2 tournaments are, and when they were put in place? idk if its true or not, but i remember on /r/starcraft there was rumors the reason why MLG dropped starcraft is because of of tournament license fees, rob simpson said that was untrue: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/pxnz2/lantastic_gaming_incident/c3t399s/That being said, I'm pretty sure Blizzard pays orgs to host most SC2 events.
Yeah this is what I was getting at. I was always under the impression that Blizzard, at least initially, actually paid third parties to host SC2 events in their vain attempts to synthesize a plastic e-sports scene, while actively fighting BW events from being hosted at all.
How anyone, regardless of allegiance, could witness that and not throw up in their mouth about Blizzard's arrogance is beyond me, but that's beside the point. Even Blizzard's apologists who find excuses at every corner can't defend it, because Mike Morhaime has literally called it "the biggest mistake of his career". Not that I necessarily believe he's being sincere as opposed to making a calculated statement, but it means Blizzard's lapdogs can't defend it because not even Blizzard defends it.
Now they charge outrageous fees for SC:R events, so I'm just wondering whether SC2 fees are at least equal to SC:R fees currently?
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On September 07 2017 15:50 Letmelose wrote:When Blizzard took KeSPA to court, the result of which was the demise of the professional Brood War scene. Show nested quote +On October 23 2010 17:59 merz wrote:
I'm surprised that so many people are blindly supporting kespa. KeSPA has done some shady and questionable things under their "time" and I don't see the moral issue here. Blizzard made both games, as most of you have mentioned, none of us are read up on Korean Law about IP rights, but I have a hard time seeing how they'd have vastly different views on IP than pretty much any other country out there.
Legally Blizzard SHOULD be fine. "Should" because again, I'm not very well ready in korean law. Also KeSPA has been douches for such a long time, none of you remember the shit they pulled during the GomTV SC/BW leagues? I'm all for Blizzard in this one, take it to court! When the news listing the details of one of the reasons why competitive Brood War may be struggling to grow further. Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 20:07 merz wrote:
The hefty sum aside, come on guys, Blizzard is a company with shareholders like every other company. Are you expecting them to allow a third party using their intellectual property to no cost at all? Calling them assholes because they are protecting their own interests isn't really fair. Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 20:27 merz wrote:
Besides you'd also have to consider what damage someone like ASL could do to Blizzards trademarks if they were allowed these things without little or no involvement from Blizzard themselves.
Couple that with the fact that Blizzard allows you to host as many tournaments you like as long as the price money does not exceed 10 000 USD or 50 000 USD in total over the course of year. This while leaving all the revenue (up to 100 000 USD) to the company hosting the tournament and it's also under the condition that the tournament is free of charge to watch on i.e. Twitch.tv and on site.
I'd say that's pretty fair to the consumers, viewers and the tournament organizers.
So no I don't agree on that Blizzard is Killing E-sports or that they are assholes. How willing you are to abandon the Brood War scene as long as Blizzard shares your vision of what constitutes an "amazing" scene. Show nested quote +On April 15 2017 18:36 merz wrote:
This is a really weird mindset. People, including myself, left Brood war for SC2 not because it was the better game at that specific time, but because it had potential to be something amazing. It had Blizzard backing it up as an esport, it had a ton of new players, it unified pretty much all genres of RTS-players. It was a chance for a fresh start and to build something from the ground up.
You have time and time again voiced your displeasure towards the Korean Brood War scene, but have been surprisingly patient with how Blizzard dealt with competitive Brood War over the years. Further more, it seems that a global e-Sports scene under the rule of Blizzard seems to be your cup of tea, rather than concern for the health of the last stronghold for competitive Brood War. The Korean Brood War scene is far from perfect, but it provided more content for people with a strong love for competitive Brood War than Blizzard could ever hope to imagine. If your idea of utopia is one where Blizzard takes all control, so be it, but don't you dare mock those who love Brood War with your insincere tone of voice.
It is clear that you have a personal vendetta against me, seeing how you dig up posts 7 years old and that you go on "tilt" when I'm attempting a discussion.
I have nothing against the korean Brood War scene. I've grown up with the korean brood war scene and I followed it religiously for almost 8 years. What I'm trying to point out is that people are quick to make assumptions about Blizzards intentions and if they are morally correct or not, while people does not seem to think critically about i.e. KeSPAs actions of the past or ask relevant questions about ASL. I don't believe the sole reason of the so called death of the Brood War scene can be attributed to the way Blizzard acted. We may differ on that view and that's fine.
What I'm having trouble understanding is why you are so incredibly "tilted" by the way I argue. I'm simply trying to make case for that there's more to this story than we can possibly know before we call out Blizzard for being assholes, greedy, or purposely trying to kill the e-sport growth of their own game. Also adding to that, there are complex judgment calls that a company holding intellectual property has to make. It is not as easy as some people make it out to be as in "It'll be in both parties interest if they just let people use it freely". This can backlash in ways you didn't think was possible when you made the call and it can also pretty much render entire trademarks useless. There are certainly good reasons for being protective about ones intellectual property and you cannot simply just make it available for anyone, free to use, without having to face some pretty dire consquensens.
We can agree on that we both love the Brood War scene and we want it to grow. I want Brood War to be as big as possible and I want e-sport to flourish. I think there's a big danger in making that happen, if we are quick to jump to conclusions that Blizzard always is at fault. That's the point i'm trying to get across.
EDIT:
Also for someone who goes on tilt because they interpret that I'm trying to control peoples feelings, I find it amusing that you feel entitled to make wild assumptions on how willing or not willing I am to let go of Brood War in favour of something amazing. All I said was there was a definite chance of making SC2 and the E-sports of SC2 into what we wanted Brood War to be. Looking at it realistically I for one believe, at that point in time, the best shot at making that happen was through Starcraft II. Being realistic about the situation, considering sponsors, the opperunity to attract new players, tournaments etc. I don't see how that was a bad call to make.
EDIT#2:
Also again, just to be clear, I'm not MOCKING ANYONE. If that's how I come across then I'm sorry because it is definitely not my intention. I'm trying to view this in a broader perspective but I'm not trying to insult or mock or tell people how they should feel. Again I don't see where this "don't you dare try to mock people" or "don't you dare try to tell people how they should feel" is coming from.
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Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/098XnrO.png)
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On September 07 2017 18:51 K.H.J wrote:
Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
Whoa
What did he do?
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On September 07 2017 18:54 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 18:51 K.H.J wrote:
Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
Whoa What did he do?
Sexual harassment and assault.
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On September 07 2017 18:54 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 18:51 K.H.J wrote:
Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
Whoa What did he do?
sea broke stream rules. killer got replaced.
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On September 07 2017 18:57 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 18:54 roMAD wrote:On September 07 2017 18:51 K.H.J wrote:
Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
Whoa What did he do? sea broke stream rules. killer got replaced.
how did the replacement get picked? they should have ran an online qualifier or something
also i assume what sea did was verbal sexual harassment/assault, on his stream? any additional info on this?
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On September 07 2017 18:58 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 18:57 LaStScan wrote:On September 07 2017 18:54 roMAD wrote:On September 07 2017 18:51 K.H.J wrote:
Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
Whoa What did he do? sea broke stream rules. killer got replaced. how did the replacement get picked? they should have ran an online qualifier or something also i assume what sea did was verbal sexual harassment/assault, on his stream? any additional info on this?
Killer was second place in seoul preliminary.
So heis picked up by AfreecaTV.
Any additional info?
It is so disgusting. I will not upload it.
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On September 07 2017 19:09 K.H.J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 18:58 TT1 wrote:On September 07 2017 18:57 LaStScan wrote:On September 07 2017 18:54 roMAD wrote:On September 07 2017 18:51 K.H.J wrote:
Sea cant participate in ASL4.
AfreecaTV ban him.
His stream is also suspended for 1 week.
Whoa What did he do? sea broke stream rules. killer got replaced. how did the replacement get picked? they should have ran an online qualifier or something also i assume what sea did was verbal sexual harassment/assault, on his stream? any additional info on this? Killer was second place in seoul preliminary. So heis picked up by AfreecaTV. Any additional info? It is so disgusting. I will not upload it.
Ah ok.. i don't think that's fair to the other players but i guess ASL has time contraints and it could be hard to organize another qualifier.
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PSA: There are gifs of the incident in this link.
They get progressively worse until it looks like he hits her pretty hard, clearly not okay. What the hell, Sea?
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God damn Sea, dude what that the fuck man. Didn't think he'd do something like that.
He seemed like a cool guy. But that's not cool at all.
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On September 07 2017 19:26 NoS-Craig wrote:
God damn Sea, dude what that the fuck man. Didn't think he'd do something like that.
He seemed like a cool guy. But that's not cool at all.
Unfortunately any "cool guy" can magically transform into a mindless monster under alcohol. This is disgusting and well done by ASL and Afreeca for banning him.
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I'd assume Killer is replacing him? Would seem pretty short notice for another qualifier.
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EPT
