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United States43190 Posts
On April 26 2023 00:50 M3t4PhYzX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2023 00:43 Mozdk wrote:
How good is Artosis?
After 12 years of playing SC2 on and off, I've decided to stop, so the game is uninstalled, and I've been trying out SC:BW a bit. I've played maybe 15 comp. games. I know the game decently well from playing the campaign maybe 30 times with different restrictions. I've been watching ASL for a few years now, so I know what I will be going for in each matchup. I want to play all races until I decide what to stick with.
I just want to get a perspective on how good Artosis is. I read in a comment from a video of his, that he's around 2400 mmr. Okay. That doesn't mean anything to me. I got 1500 ish in my placement, and I am getting stomped, by people who float 3k minerals.
Is Artosis in top10 terrans in the world? Top50? Top200? I have no idea. I'd say he's around number 50 in foreigner ranking, considering chinese players in that. Maybe around 250th in the world overall? Something like that.
I think you underestimate how many good Koreans there are. There are hundreds that never made it past practice partner and thousands that never made it through courage. The 50th best foreigner is not top 1000 in the world.
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United States43190 Posts
On April 26 2023 01:56 TMNT wrote:
Artosis probably better than what he usually shows on stream. I mean, playing with that stupid TTS behind your ears must really affect your performance. 2400 sounds right.
Then where are his 2400 accounts?
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On April 26 2023 02:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2023 01:56 TMNT wrote:
Artosis probably better than what he usually shows on stream. I mean, playing with that stupid TTS behind your ears must really affect your performance. 2400 sounds right. Then where are his 2400 accounts?
2400 NA? Which is really like 2100-2200 if you account for all the Koreans leaving instantly due to lag.
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I mean he's usually around 2100-2200. Had reached 2300 sometimes I think. I added 100 mmr as compensation for that stupid TTS lol. Conceptually as they say.
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On April 26 2023 02:16 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2023 00:50 M3t4PhYzX wrote:On April 26 2023 00:43 Mozdk wrote:
How good is Artosis?
After 12 years of playing SC2 on and off, I've decided to stop, so the game is uninstalled, and I've been trying out SC:BW a bit. I've played maybe 15 comp. games. I know the game decently well from playing the campaign maybe 30 times with different restrictions. I've been watching ASL for a few years now, so I know what I will be going for in each matchup. I want to play all races until I decide what to stick with.
I just want to get a perspective on how good Artosis is. I read in a comment from a video of his, that he's around 2400 mmr. Okay. That doesn't mean anything to me. I got 1500 ish in my placement, and I am getting stomped, by people who float 3k minerals.
Is Artosis in top10 terrans in the world? Top50? Top200? I have no idea. I'd say he's around number 50 in foreigner ranking, considering chinese players in that. Maybe around 250th in the world overall? Something like that. I think you underestimate how many good Koreans there are. There are hundreds that never made it past practice partner and thousands that never made it through courage. The 50th best foreigner is not top 1000 in the world.
The best foreigner is not top 1000 in the world. Even the worst koreans are a challenge.
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Ty for the replies guys. I got some idea now then.
What about my 1400-1500 MMR. Where does rank compared to SC2. I was Low to High diamond on my main race and plat in the other two. I had a stint in Masters during soul train era. That was fun having 85% PvZ.
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On April 26 2023 00:43 Mozdk wrote:
How good is Artosis?
After 12 years of playing SC2 on and off, I've decided to stop, so the game is uninstalled, and I've been trying out SC:BW a bit. I've played maybe 15 comp. games. I know the game decently well from playing the campaign maybe 30 times with different restrictions. I've been watching ASL for a few years now, so I know what I will be going for in each matchup. I want to play all races until I decide what to stick with.
I just want to get a perspective on how good Artosis is. I read in a comment from a video of his, that he's around 2400 mmr. Okay. That doesn't mean anything to me. I got 1500 ish in my placement, and I am getting stomped, by people who float 3k minerals.
Is Artosis in top10 terrans in the world? Top50? Top200? I have no idea.
Artosis is among the best foreign Terrans and hes dedicated and disciplined enough to beat anyone if he really puts his soul into it. Hes however old like a dog as myself so performance may vary cause of that. I myself have severe hand pain when i play long stretches and im sure he has some pain too in some form (mental pain from Protoss? ), you dont play this game for 20+ years and NOT get pain, then you arent clicking enough (like a Protoss player).
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On April 26 2023 02:16 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2023 00:50 M3t4PhYzX wrote:On April 26 2023 00:43 Mozdk wrote:
How good is Artosis?
After 12 years of playing SC2 on and off, I've decided to stop, so the game is uninstalled, and I've been trying out SC:BW a bit. I've played maybe 15 comp. games. I know the game decently well from playing the campaign maybe 30 times with different restrictions. I've been watching ASL for a few years now, so I know what I will be going for in each matchup. I want to play all races until I decide what to stick with.
I just want to get a perspective on how good Artosis is. I read in a comment from a video of his, that he's around 2400 mmr. Okay. That doesn't mean anything to me. I got 1500 ish in my placement, and I am getting stomped, by people who float 3k minerals.
Is Artosis in top10 terrans in the world? Top50? Top200? I have no idea. I'd say he's around number 50 in foreigner ranking, considering chinese players in that. Maybe around 250th in the world overall? Something like that. I think you underestimate how many good Koreans there are. There are hundreds that never made it past practice partner and thousands that never made it through courage. The 50th best foreigner is not top 1000 in the world.
Now that I thought about it for a while.. That is probably actually true, yes..
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On April 26 2023 15:08 Mozdk wrote:
Ty for the replies guys. I got some idea now then.
What about my 1400-1500 MMR. Where does rank compared to SC2. I was Low to High diamond on my main race and plat in the other two. I had a stint in Masters during soul train era. That was fun having 85% PvZ.
Pick Protoss if you like to hear "you play a nooby race with low APM skills".
Pick Terran if you want to be Artosis side-kick. He will praise you for picking the most difficult race.
Pick Zerg if you like to watch Protoss and Terrans battle it out meanwhile you attack from behind. Well Protoss players will call Zerg OP but Terrans wont. Much need for perfect micro to make Zerg work overall.
IMO Protoss is OP in this game but players lack the skill to use it properly.
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I agree with Kwark.
On a personal note I would not suggest getting into sc:r unless you *really* enjoy the game and you're completely okay with never having the opportunity to improve beyond the average foreigner level -- which will take years to achieve in the first place.
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Yeah, there's been 1000's of koreans good at the game at one point or another, however the vast majority of everyone who ever was a practice partner, or good amateur player during the past 20 years, has most likely moved on and would be horribly out of shape. It's not that unrealistic to say that a guy like artosis is top300 in the world.
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United States43190 Posts
On April 27 2023 00:48 Comedy wrote:
Yeah, there's been 1000's of koreans good at the game at one point or another, however the vast majority of everyone who ever was a practice partner, or good amateur player during the past 20 years, has most likely moved on and would be horribly out of shape. It's not that unrealistic to say that a guy like artosis is top300 in the world.
So presumably you’d put me at 250th or something?
It’s absolutely unrealistic.
At S rank you continually run into different no name Koreans who are much stronger.
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Norway28703 Posts
There aren't 1000 Koreans better than the top foreigners like Dewalt bonyth sziky but the gap between these three and the top 50 outside Asia group is pretty damn big. 1000 Koreans better than top 50 outside is if anything a bit generous towards the top 50 group, but its a reasonable ballpark too.
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Yeah. Bonyth Sziky Dewalt Mihu + other top Chinese players are somewhere in the top 1000 Koreans. Not sure where exactly but no way Dewalt or Mihu is worse than the 1000th Korean.
Keep in mind that there's also a huge community in Korea for Fastest and BGH - players who don't ladder but if they do, they'd be S rank as well.
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Still need a bit of answering about my 1400-1500 MMR. I personally believe I am not that that level, because I get crushed by what appears to be bad players.
Can anyone come with a guess about what rank that translates to in SC2.
Like I can reasonably comfortably say that Diamond 2 is around DMG in CSGO. It takes about the same amount of effort for an average gamer to get those ranks.
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United States43190 Posts
Question doesn’t really make sense, they’re different games with different player pools. You can be objectively good at bw, in the sense that you have skills that took thousands of hours to learn, and relatively bad in the sense that most other players are better. The goodness of a player needs to be quantifiable in some way and MMR is that way. If you’re asking how good a 1500 player is, well, they’re about 1500.
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On April 27 2023 08:05 KwarK wrote:
Question doesn’t really make sense, they’re different games with different player pools. You can be objectively good at bw, in the sense that you have skills that took thousands of hours to learn, and relatively bad in the sense that most other players are better. The goodness of a player needs to be quantifiable in some way and MMR is that way. If you’re asking how good a 1500 player is, well, they’re about 1500.
To me it makes a lot of sense.
Mid diamond SC2 = DMG CSGO = Low Diamond Rocket league. For the average gamer. Same amount of time invested.
You'll be able to say if 1500 is around Grandmaster or Bronze right? The answer is no... So narrow it down until you can't go any further.
I might be 1 or 2... maybe even 3 ranks off in my estimates, but it's still better than a person who has no idea... I am that person. So conceptualise it for me.
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If you are in the top 50s on EU server you are in the 94th percentile (top 6%).
Korea server top 1000s you are in the 96th percentile (top 4%).
EA server top 50s you are in the 98th percentile (top 2%).
This is from peak of 2020 of 24 000 Korea players active users at peak time of day.
So saying that someone is in the top 1000s of Korea server you are pretty damn good as for their average skill is very high, nearly born with the game it would seem.
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On April 27 2023 08:05 KwarK wrote:
Question doesn’t really make sense, they’re different games with different player pools. You can be objectively good at bw, in the sense that you have skills that took thousands of hours to learn, and relatively bad in the sense that most other players are better. The goodness of a player needs to be quantifiable in some way and MMR is that way. If you’re asking how good a 1500 player is, well, they’re about 1500.
This isnt really true when you have the same pool for different hours of the day, ie you can MISS the best players by just playing a different time of the day, ie earn more MMR than ure actually worth (skill inflation) to perceive as a good player while you havent played the best players.
So a 1500 player is only as good as his opponents were.
If everyone lived in korea and played on the same server and at the same time of day MMR would be accurate.
And to add on that, if Flash now would come back and be superior than everyone else, then everyone else would be worth LESS MMR than they currently are, ie their skill would be inflated and probably never be corrected as they wouldnt be playing Flash every game. So MMR of Flash could equal someone else but Flash could still be superior just because they didnt start playing at the same time when the server started recording MMR.
Still everyone isnt playing the SAME race either so its that factor too. Snow isnt as good with T as with P, while Flash COULD be as good with T as with P. Seeing as he did a random tournament and nearly won thats kinda hilarious.
So if anyone wanna know their TRUE MMR they should play when the toughest opponents exist in the pool. Its that simple.
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On April 26 2023 15:08 Mozdk wrote:
Ty for the replies guys. I got some idea now then.
What about my 1400-1500 MMR. Where does rank compared to SC2. I was Low to High diamond on my main race and plat in the other two. I had a stint in Masters during soul train era. That was fun having 85% PvZ.
That sounds about right. Diamond SC2 translates to around D-C rank, mostly on D from what I've seen with multiple people.
IDK, I had people on reddit call me I'm BW elitist when I point that out, but it's just that much more top heavy in a game that's been going on for 2+decades and very korea/pro scene heavy
Personally, Ive seen many master/GM SC2 players stabilize themselves around B/A rank, and I was master1 player in SC2 and I'm stuck at B-A right now myself so, it's about same. I've seen few low GM players end around A after few months of grinding, and seems to be common spot to plateu in for lower end gms
Think rank comparisons much more apt in Broodwar/SC2 as they are both RTS and share a lot of similarities, while it may be different games in end of day.
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EPT
