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http://www.wfbrood.com/xingji/hanguoxingji/xingji_65425.html
not sure if it's a fomos article so I won't directly translate it. Basically  Fantasy was send to B team for "special" training after his poor performance. And he came back to A team yesterday for the SKT v CJ match. For those didn't watch that match yet, I won't spoil it for you. But you probably want to avoid this thread for the moment since it's hard to discuss his "training" without mentioning the SKY v CJ game.
SKT CJ spoiler (for discussion)
+ Show Spoiler +Game 2: Where(Z) < Neo Aztec > Fantasy(T)
Fantasy was rated a low D+ for his "come back" match.
And TvZ was once his special. Remember Oov told boxer that he and Fantasy has a 100% win vZ build?
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5003 Posts
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Surprised that they sent him down to the B-team in the first place. Usually when teams do that, the player is REALLY mired in a mega slump. He hasn't been playing well since his OSL win, but I didn't think it got nearly that bad.
Edit: Check that, he was actually quite good even after his OSL win; he just had a bad spell starting in April.
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With Flash injured and Fantasy slumping, things don't look good for the Terran race right now.
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What other Terrans do we have?
Baby ? Leta ?
...The terran race is so screwed
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Hopefully he'll stop slumping soon, I know he has it in him to dominate (or at least thats what I keep telling myself...)
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damnit this would of been a pretty good osl for bisu to win!
i feel like fantasy only thrives when what he plans goes his ways. when it goes to shits, he goes to shits. i think maybe he will do better if he was a sniper rather then an ace player for skt.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 05 2011 01:07 DorF wrote:
...The terran race is so screwed
Hmph. You, sirrah, spew bogus with thy doomsaying.
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On July 05 2011 01:07 DorF wrote:
What other Terrans do we have?
Baby ? Leta ?
...The terran race is so screwed
Light? Reality? Bogus? Oz's new terran weapon? Motherfucking FireBatHero? Terrans are going to be fine.
Edit: There are 10 terrans in the top20 elo at the moment, 6 zergs and 4 toss. I don't think terrans should be complaining. They might lose their leader for a while but they're doing much better as a whole.
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9070 Posts
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds.
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On July 05 2011 01:18 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:07 DorF wrote:
What other Terrans do we have?
Baby ? Leta ?
...The terran race is so screwed
Light? Reality? Bogus? Oz's new terran weapon? Motherfucking FireBatHero? Terrans are going to be fine. Edit: There are 10 terrans in the top20 elo at the moment, 6 zergs and 4 toss. I don't think terrans should be complaining. They might lose their leader for a while but they're doing much better as a whole.
None of them capable of winning an individual league.
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On July 05 2011 01:24 J1.au wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:18 kuroshiroi wrote:On July 05 2011 01:07 DorF wrote:
What other Terrans do we have?
Baby ? Leta ?
...The terran race is so screwed
Light? Reality? Bogus? Oz's new terran weapon? Motherfucking FireBatHero? Terrans are going to be fine. Edit: There are 10 terrans in the top20 elo at the moment, 6 zergs and 4 toss. I don't think terrans should be complaining. They might lose their leader for a while but they're doing much better as a whole. None of them capable of winning an individual league.
that just means the other races need extraordinary players to even be in the top 20.
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On July 05 2011 01:24 J1.au wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:18 kuroshiroi wrote:On July 05 2011 01:07 DorF wrote:
What other Terrans do we have?
Baby ? Leta ?
...The terran race is so screwed
Light? Reality? Bogus? Oz's new terran weapon? Motherfucking FireBatHero? Terrans are going to be fine. Edit: There are 10 terrans in the top20 elo at the moment, 6 zergs and 4 toss. I don't think terrans should be complaining. They might lose their leader for a while but they're doing much better as a whole. None of them capable of winning an individual league.
I think Light or Reality might manage it, they just need a bit of luck. They've shown themselves capable of defeating S-class opponents recently. If you want to complain, complain about the number of titles tosses have won in the last 3 years.
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Fantasy was probably sent to B-team due to the coaches seeing something in him during practice+poor performance. Glad that he's back, but the game yesterday...
Good thing SKT is still able to win without Fantasy playing his role as the ace terran. Hope you get back in shape fantasy
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On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds.
SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;(
[I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...]
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Welcome back Fanta! We missed your gg timing!
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On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...]
You have a good point there. For the longest time I am convinced that SKT got this PL in their bag. But now with news that Fantasy's performance caused him to be sent to team B, and after "successful" training. He came back with a D+ rating lost to a B class Zerg?
This is one interesting final.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 05 2011 02:08 mmdmmd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...] You have a good point there. For the longest time I am convinced that SKT got this PL in their bag. But now with news that Fantasy's performance caused him to be sent to team B, and after "successful" training. He came back with a D+ rating lost to a B class Zerg? This is one interesting final.
Except look at the winrates of the SKT main team. n.die_soo, by.Sun or s2. Best had a good winrate for a while and if Fantasy or Ssak get back in form *shudder*. This final is as good as won for SKT, which should be proven by all other teams feeling as good as helpless when playing them. You're just looking for drama and tension where there isn't any. SKT fans have the least right to whine when their team just had 2 rounds out of 6 undefeated.
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On July 05 2011 02:14 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:08 mmdmmd wrote:On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...] You have a good point there. For the longest time I am convinced that SKT got this PL in their bag. But now with news that Fantasy's performance caused him to be sent to team B, and after "successful" training. He came back with a D+ rating lost to a B class Zerg? This is one interesting final. Except look at the winrates of the SKT main team. n.die_soo, by.Sun or s2. Best had a good winrate for a while and if Fantasy or Ssak get back in form *shudder*. This final is as good as won for SKT, which should be proven by all other teams feeling as good as helpless when playing them. You're just looking for drama and tension where there isn't any. SKT fans have the least right to whine when their team just had 2 rounds out of 6 undefeated.
SKT got 4-0'd by CJ the last time they played a real match.
+ Show Spoiler ++ 11-05-17 Neo Aztec Horang2 Bisu
+ 11-05-17 Alternative Movie n.Die_soO
+ 11-05-17 Icarus Leta Ssak
+ 11-05-17 Beltway sKyHigh Fantasy
Bisu has been the only consistent factor, SKT zergs have been playing great lately, but I could definitely see Best, S2, Soo, Fantasy all dropping games when it counts.
(just saying...)
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On July 05 2011 02:20 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:14 mustaju wrote:On July 05 2011 02:08 mmdmmd wrote:On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...] You have a good point there. For the longest time I am convinced that SKT got this PL in their bag. But now with news that Fantasy's performance caused him to be sent to team B, and after "successful" training. He came back with a D+ rating lost to a B class Zerg? This is one interesting final. Except look at the winrates of the SKT main team. n.die_soo, by.Sun or s2. Best had a good winrate for a while and if Fantasy or Ssak get back in form *shudder*. This final is as good as won for SKT, which should be proven by all other teams feeling as good as helpless when playing them. You're just looking for drama and tension where there isn't any. SKT fans have the least right to whine when their team just had 2 rounds out of 6 undefeated. SKT got 4-0'd by CJ the last time they played a real match. + Show Spoiler ++ 11-05-17 Neo Aztec Horang2 Bisu
+ 11-05-17 Alternative Movie n.Die_soO
+ 11-05-17 Icarus Leta Ssak
+ 11-05-17 Beltway sKyHigh Fantasy Bisu has been the only consistent factor, SKT zergs have been playing great lately, but I could definitely see Best, S2, Soo, Fantasy all dropping games when it counts. (just saying...)
That is assuming that CJ will go to the finals. But I think they will anyway. And iirc last time skt got all bad match up. The final will be interesting.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 05 2011 02:20 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:14 mustaju wrote:On July 05 2011 02:08 mmdmmd wrote:On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...] You have a good point there. For the longest time I am convinced that SKT got this PL in their bag. But now with news that Fantasy's performance caused him to be sent to team B, and after "successful" training. He came back with a D+ rating lost to a B class Zerg? This is one interesting final. Except look at the winrates of the SKT main team. n.die_soo, by.Sun or s2. Best had a good winrate for a while and if Fantasy or Ssak get back in form *shudder*. This final is as good as won for SKT, which should be proven by all other teams feeling as good as helpless when playing them. You're just looking for drama and tension where there isn't any. SKT fans have the least right to whine when their team just had 2 rounds out of 6 undefeated. SKT got 4-0'd by CJ the last time they played a real match.
Pfft. One off game during who knows how many. SKT didn't even really try that game. Regular Proleague format is currently 2-2 between the two, but it's not like SKT didn't have a 4-1 win over CJ (Hite then) there as well.
Also a 39-15 score for SKT at the end of round 6. God.
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9070 Posts
soo best Sun are not nearly as reliable as the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago. SKT was unbeatable during that time with BeSt fantasy Bisu and Canata all in great shape. Now its Bisu with everyone else hoping to get their good matchups...
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 05 2011 02:41 disciple wrote:
soo best Sun are not nearly as reliable as the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago. SKT was unbeatable during that time with BeSt fantasy Bisu and Canata all in great shape. Now its Bisu with everyone else hoping to get their good matchups...
Sun
n.die_soo
BeSt
How much more reliable do you want them? :S
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On July 05 2011 02:48 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:41 disciple wrote:
soo best Sun are not nearly as reliable as the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago. SKT was unbeatable during that time with BeSt fantasy Bisu and Canata all in great shape. Now its Bisu with everyone else hoping to get their good matchups... Sunn.die_sooBeStHow much more reliable do you want them? :S
Yeah the only team with that can rival up that lineup is CJ and Khan and occasionally KT with Flash being in Godmode and Stats not sucking and Action doing his thing.
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On July 05 2011 02:48 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:41 disciple wrote:
soo best Sun are not nearly as reliable as the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago. SKT was unbeatable during that time with BeSt fantasy Bisu and Canata all in great shape. Now its Bisu with everyone else hoping to get their good matchups... Sunn.die_sooBeStHow much more reliable do you want them? :S
Yes, they've been performing very, very well in June.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 05 2011 02:59 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:48 mustaju wrote:On July 05 2011 02:41 disciple wrote:
soo best Sun are not nearly as reliable as the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago. SKT was unbeatable during that time with BeSt fantasy Bisu and Canata all in great shape. Now its Bisu with everyone else hoping to get their good matchups... Sunn.die_sooBeStHow much more reliable do you want them? :S Yes, they've been performing very, very well in June.
I don't see SKT losing this. They have the most highly paid coaching team, several near unbeatable players and great snipers in addition to these. Has CJ ever even won a title?!? Or will their nerves collapse, which is a lot more likely?
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On July 05 2011 03:05 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 02:59 Gescom wrote:On July 05 2011 02:48 mustaju wrote:On July 05 2011 02:41 disciple wrote:
soo best Sun are not nearly as reliable as the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago. SKT was unbeatable during that time with BeSt fantasy Bisu and Canata all in great shape. Now its Bisu with everyone else hoping to get their good matchups... Sunn.die_sooBeStHow much more reliable do you want them? :S Yes, they've been performing very, very well in June. I don't see SKT losing this. They have the most highly paid coaching team, several near unbeatable players and great snipers in addition to these. Has CJ ever even won a title?!? Or will their nerves collapse, which is a lot more likely?
Here's the last time CJ won.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/27_SKY2004_Proleague_R3
=P
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Some of the Chinese Netizens are questioning why Fantasy only need to "Wash Dishes" for 1 week while Bisu and Best had to do it for a long time. Some are suggesting that this is another sign showing SKT's unfairness*.
*note: Bisu once complained he doesn't get enough time on individual leagues. However others quickly pointed out Fantasy never seem to have much trouble preparing, in fact, Fantasy is known to prepare very well before individual leagues.
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I'm guessing Fanta is the type of good in practice, choke in televised match? Like Hoejja some time ago but now he's good. Maybe he needed only 1 week because he has cleared the level already 
Hopefully he got back on his feet before the individual league and play off tho
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On July 05 2011 07:31 mmdmmd wrote:
Some of the Chinese Netizens are questioning why Fantasy only need to "Wash Dishes" for 1 week while Bisu and Best had to do it for a long time. Some are suggesting that this is another sign showing SKT's unfairness*.
*note: Bisu once complained he doesn't get enough time on individual leagues. However others quickly pointed out Fantasy never seem to have much trouble preparing, in fact, Fantasy is known to prepare very well before individual leagues.
fantasy has oov to back his every step. No one else does. Yes this is favoritism.
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Best & Bisu went through much worse slumps before going off the A-team. (Was Bisu ever demoted to the B-team, I thought he just had various vacations to try to shake him off?)
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You know, I remember way back in April, Mustaju gave me one of the fan interview question of "Name a player to look out for in round 5 and the player that's going to underperform the most. Neither can be from your team." and I chose fantasy for the slump. Even then I didn't see it coming this badly.
Guy just lost his spirit after getting his title, it's like all the fight has gone out of him.
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On July 05 2011 07:56 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Guy just lost his spirit after getting his title, it's like all the fight has gone out of him.
Its alright, he was just borrowing oov's spirit anyway 
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Atleast before, even if he was taking everything from oov, he was doing it with some fervor and conviction! Now he's just a sad shell of his former self. It's like Ron Artest or something.
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On July 05 2011 07:56 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You know, I remember way back in April, Mustaju gave me one of the fan interview question of "Name a player to look out for in round 5 and the player that's going to underperform the most. Neither can be from your team." and I chose fantasy for the slump. Even then I didn't see it coming this badly.
Guy just lost his spirit after getting his title, it's like all the fight has gone out of him.
I don't think he lost his spirit personally. I think for me he is TRYING very hard to be something he isn't. He been running into Zergs a lot recently, and up until his OSL win he wasn't doing bad in the match up. Just all lately, he has been running Bio and we all know how terribad his Bio play is.
About Bisu and BeSt. Ya they went through more then just 1+ month of it. Bisu being technically the best Protoss ever, someone goes through that state, SKT probably freaked out and just took Bisu aside completely for awhile. BeSt has always slowly come out of it when it mattered for the team so I wasn't really that surprised when he started playing well again.
This is Fantasy, we all know how great he can be when he is on point. Almost Flash like if he's in that state, but he has all that other state we keep seeing. I feel like recently he's just trying to be something he isn't. I'd rather see a consistent Fantasy that won OSL, then some random Fantasy trying to be something he isn't. Boxer taught him to improve on what he was good with already. Don't change that.
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oh please... 2 seasons ago Fantasy carried SKT on his back to lead them the to the play-offs and luckily best and bisu both decided to revive once we got there.
cut him some slack. I'm sure he'll be back in shape by the time we face CJ or KT in the finals.
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On July 05 2011 07:54 SimonB wrote:
Best & Bisu went through much worse slumps before going off the A-team. (Was Bisu ever demoted to the B-team, I thought he just had various vacations to try to shake him off?)
i think it was just a vacation, i could be wrong
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On July 05 2011 08:21 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
oh please... 2 seasons ago Fantasy carried SKT on his back to lead them the to the play-offs and luckily best and bisu both decided to revive once we got there.
cut him some slack. I'm sure he'll be back in shape by the time we face CJ or KT in the finals.
You mean by the time you face khan. Rawr.
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United States10155 Posts
"Remember Oov told boxer that he and Fantasy has a 100% win vZ build?" yeah its called lift all your buildings and float them to a corner of the map and hope your opponent gets bored and leaves the game. It's called the-- oh... wait...
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Don't worry guys. You can always count on fantasy to bring his A game during a finals match.
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It's obvious Fantasy's skill level is dependent on his rival, Stork's skill level. While Stork is bad then so will Fantasy
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I had no idea Fantasy was doing this badly, came as a shock to hear he'd been on the B-team for a bit. Maybe some family/life stuff is bothering him.
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On July 05 2011 11:14 ~ava wrote:
I had no idea Fantasy was doing this badly, came as a shock to hear he'd been on the B-team for a bit. Maybe some family/life stuff is bothering him.
I say r/s problem :p
Stargirl any1? xD
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Didnt s2 nearly all-killed KT in the last finals, like, only dropping against Flash?
If SKT doesnt win Im gonna be really disappointed, even though I want them to lose. No team right now has that player that can just win every match and carry its team on the playoffs. Not Flash, not Bisu, not Jaedong if Oz had made it.
That being said, SKT has the best lineup right now. Best and the zergs have all been performing good, not awesome, but good. With Bisu on the back, taking on what is left, there is now way SKT will fall.
What do the other teams have in comparison? You can name a lot of good players (Bogus, Hydra, Grape, maybe Roro and Mind, from the top of my head), but none of them can actually carry their teams.
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Winners League is a whole other ball game. Bisu can win his game, but what happens if SKT gets dropped 4-1? They will definitely need to be firing on all cylinders.
You forgot Leta and Horang2 for CJ. They have a little less starpower than SKT, but arguably more depth.
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This makes me reconsider taking him in the MSL fantasy thing.
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Fantasy has been playing horribly lately, but so has stork... IMO both deserve to goto B team until they can show results in practice more consistently. Even JyJ (rookie T on SKT) is playing better than fantasy...
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Maybe he has a secret girlfriend...or secretly playing cellphone games with stork..
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On July 05 2011 12:03 gustavohmp wrote:
Didnt s2 nearly all-killed KT in the last finals, like, only dropping against Flash?
If SKT doesnt win Im gonna be really disappointed, even though I want them to lose. No team right now has that player that can just win every match and carry its team on the playoffs. Not Flash, not Bisu, not Jaedong if Oz had made it.
That being said, SKT has the best lineup right now. Best and the zergs have all been performing good, not awesome, but good. With Bisu on the back, taking on what is left, there is now way SKT will fall.
What do the other teams have in comparison? You can name a lot of good players (Bogus, Hydra, Grape, maybe Roro and Mind, from the top of my head), but none of them can actually carry their teams.
lol @ s2 carrying SKT. i agree that skt has the strongest lineup right now but saying that s2 is the only player that can win every match isn't right.. iirc flash 3-killed skt this year in WL. and stats all killed a few times as well. though skt's lineup is strong, s2 isn't the only player that can carry his team to victory. he did almost all kill kt but several other players have all killed this season
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On July 05 2011 15:16 LuckyMacro wrote:
Maybe he has a secret girlfriend...or secretly playing cellphone games with stork..
lol, the second possibility sounds so convincing, both previous OSL finalist slumping at the same time.
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51449 Posts
On July 05 2011 15:16 LuckyMacro wrote:
Maybe he has a secret girlfriend...or secretly playing cellphone games with stork..
or doing the new firelands raids in wow.
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Just wait till flash comes back...
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I'm not worried about Fantasy. Yeah, he hasn't been playing well in the last few weeks. Still, he's unbeaten in Ace Matches this season. He'll pull himself together for the finals and get that precious win on the biggest stage.
Fanta fighting!
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On July 05 2011 01:18 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:07 DorF wrote:
What other Terrans do we have?
Baby ? Leta ?
...The terran race is so screwed
Light? Reality? Bogus? Oz's new terran weapon? Motherfucking FireBatHero? Terrans are going to be fine. Edit: There are 10 terrans in the top20 elo at the moment, 6 zergs and 4 toss. I don't think terrans should be complaining. They might lose their leader for a while but they're doing much better as a whole.
I was curious so I looked up the players that have gotten to the Ro4 in all of the individual leagues since 2009. Out of 48 spots, 26 were zerg, 12 were terran, 10 were protoss. There have been only two terrans who have gotten to the ro4 of any starleague in the last year who aren't either flash or fantasy. How is that doing "better as a whole"?
ABC MSL:
 ZerO, Jaedong, Hydra, Flash
PDPop MSL:
great, ZerO, Jaedong, Hydra
Bacchus 2010 OSL:
Fantasy, Calm, Modesty,  Stork
Bigfile MSL:
Fantasy, Light, Flash, Jaedong
Korean Air OSL Season 2:
Jaedong, Stork, free, Flash
Hana Daetoo MSL:
Flash, free, Jaedong, Calm
Korean Air OSL Season 1:
Flash, Pure, EffOrt, Kal
NATE MSL:
Kal, Jaedong, Kwanro, Flash
EVER OSL:
Flash, Calm, Shine, Movie
Avalon MSL:
Jaedong, Calm, Iris, Kwanro
Bacchus 2009 OSL:
Fantasy, Jaedong, YellOw[ArnC], type-b
Lost Saga MSL:
Luxury, ZerO, JangBi, Stork
8 Jaedong
4 Calm
3 ZerO
2 Hydra
2 Kwanro
1 EffOrt
1 great
1 Luxury
1 Modesty
1 Shine
1 type-b
1 YellOw[ArnC]
7 Flash
3 Fantasy
1 Iris
1 Light
3 Stork
2 free
2 Kal
1 JangBi
1 Movie
1 pure
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well ever since the disaster that was the 4 protoss semi msl and their subsequent sponser issues, the maps have been shifted around and tend to be anti protoss in general. some seasons better for terran, others for zerg.
it wouldnt surprise me if we saw a resurgence in good pvx maps, but well see. good p maps tend to be bad terran maps, where zerg is somewhere in the middle.
and back on to fantasy, ive never been impressed by his play. it always showed a real lack of mechanics. i think back to the semi final with flash where he routinely was giving up big mid game leads due to failing mechanics. it is kind of the same problem leta has, though fantasy has been a lot more successful than leta.
we will see if he can get it together before the finals come. even with skt pulling #1 this season i think the playoffs are still anyone's game. normally the 5/6 teams dont really have a shot, but i could see some upsets coming.
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Edit: Pointless stuff.
I do enjoy the Fantasy bashing here. Always did find him way too lacking for a top player.
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On July 05 2011 01:14 mustaju wrote:Hmph. You, sirrah, spew bogus with thy doomsaying.
bogus is decent, but i probably don't think he has what it takes to become league material. he's not really solid A class either. he's the best player on stx though. not sure if that means much atm.
it just feels like flash is the only consistent terran. there are a lot of good zergs (zero, soulkey, hydra, jaedong) and protoss out there, but with terran it really feels like flash is the only decent player. there's lots of "good in proleague bad in starleague" players though like sea, leta, baby and light. there needs to be more league material terrans! i don't like any terrans right now.
and what's up with everyone mentioning reality? the guy executed ONE good play against jaedong, and that was a heavily prepared build that you would expect a sniper to use in proleague. reality's fundamentals are terrible and the guy is on a 40% winrate. i will however give him credit for having a pretty badass name that creates lols when it's fantasy vs reality.
On July 05 2011 17:04 baubo wrote:
Edit: Pointless stuff.
I do enjoy the Fantasy bashing here. Always did find him way too lacking for a top player.
erm... do people realise fantasy used to be a very solid player? look at the guy's ELO peak. up until recently he was one of the best players not to have won a league. i feel the "fantasy gg timing" thread just spurred a lot of hate. fantasy may be slumping hard right now but up until recently he was THE clear number 3 after jaedong and flash. it's only bisu's revival and stork's brief period of dominance that pushed fantasy down the ranks.
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On July 05 2011 16:36 esla_sol wrote:
well ever since the disaster that was the 4 protoss semi msl and their subsequent sponser issues, the maps have been shifted around and tend to be anti protoss in general. some seasons better for terran, others for zerg.
I am not sure about this. From what I can read. Bisu has the biggest fan base in West, China and Korea. That means EVERYWHERE. A final with Bisu is going to create THE biggest viewership ever in BW history.
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On July 05 2011 17:04 baubo wrote:
I do enjoy the Fantasy bashing here. Always did find him way too lacking for a top player.
you have to had a really hard time during last OSL, have you? XD
True Fantasy fans will never bash him, no metter he's in form or not.
True SKT fans will remember his games in SPL against JD, his MSL games against Flash, his games against Stork and Bisu. That he carried his team through the darkest time, when both Bisu and Best were in deep slump.
And i know he will be back.
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Shock to me as well to hear Fantasy got relegated to B-Team. Good to hear he's back in A though, probably my favorite T1 player.
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On July 05 2011 15:16 LuckyMacro wrote:
Maybe he has a secret girlfriend...or secretly playing cellphone games with stork..
I wouldn't be surprised...
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On July 05 2011 22:38 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 17:04 baubo wrote:
I do enjoy the Fantasy bashing here. Always did find him way too lacking for a top player. you have to had a really hard time during last OSL, have you? XD True Fantasy fans will never bash him, no metter he's in form or not. True SKT fans will remember his games in SPL against JD, his MSL games against Flash, his games against Stork and Bisu. That he carried his team through the darkest time, when both Bisu and Best were in deep slump. And i know he will be back.
I admit. Last OSL hit me hard. But believe it or not, I was only pissed at Stork because I thought Stork learned his lesson from Flash's thumping. Fantasy played it like the finals. Stork played like it was a proleague match. Fantasy won. I could only shake my head at Stork. Nothing against Fantasy.
The only thing I'm pissed about last OSL is that Fantasy won despite that complete and utter failure of TvZ against Calm in the semi-finals. If he had shown Flash-like TvZ in the semis, I would just tip my hat to him for winning it all.
Anyway, my general beef with Fantasy is that I don't find him to be less "complete" compared to other top players. TvTs aside, his entire game is BOs and harass. Yes, I know I'm generalizing a bit, but other parts of Fantasy's game look very mediocre. This is why when fantasy loses, he also looks bad.
Other top players harass and try to use good builds that counter their opponents, but they don't "rely" on them. So if everything proceed normally or even disadvantageously into the mid-late game, they still have a good chance to win. Fantasy, if his harass doesn't work, generally just fall apart.
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Word...fantasy get back bro
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fantasy stop slumping please
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Both my favourite Protoss (Stork) and Terran (Fantasy) are slumping pretty hard right now. These guys were in the OSL finals just 6 months ago, this is just not expected at all. Hopefully they both take advantage of their OSL seeds and prepare enough to advance to the Ro8.
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On July 05 2011 23:25 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 15:16 LuckyMacro wrote:
Maybe he has a secret girlfriend...or secretly playing cellphone games with stork.. I wouldn't be surprised...
I would be surprised on the girlfriend part, as Fantasy himself said that he wasn't interested in girls in an interview.
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Fantasy started slumping when he realized that Jaedong's mm micro was better than his.
Since that game he is 8-13. :-)
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Personally I think he'll come back strong in the GF. Fantasy is at his best when he has tons of preparation, and SKT will have a LOT of time off thanks to clinching first place. He'll have plenty of time to think of all the cute strats he'll need.
I don't think SKT fans need to worry too much, especially considering that their zergs and tosses are actually quite consistent nowadays.
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On July 05 2011 13:16 dRaW wrote:
Fantasy has been playing horribly lately, but so has stork... IMO both deserve to goto B team until they can show results in practice more consistently. Even JyJ (rookie T on SKT) is playing better than fantasy...
Fantasy has been quite reliable in PL since his OSL run. He has lost 6 games in a row recently but if you look at Winners League and before round 6 of PL he was doing pretty well.
Fantasy's TLPD All Games Played Recently
It seems like after Fantasy lost to Soulkey twice in the ABCMSL he lost a lot of confidence, motivation or whatever in vZ. His mech switches from heavy bio/valk pressure in early game are not working anymore. There were very long and drawn out games on Dante's Peak
(Fantasy v Soulkey on Dante's Peak
Fantasy meche'd and lost hard to queens broodling over and over. The Monte Cristo was .....sad T.T
Now fantasy is trying to use bio but it is clear that unlike his sublime vulture micro/multitask his bio is looks and attacks rather clumsily and he seems to lack the gamesense many hardcore bio terrans acquired over years of vZ play (Flash, Hwasin, FBH, Ruby, Casy come to mind). So many slaughtered marines from hold lurkers.....
edit: I will admit that the last 6 losses have been so painful to watch with many of those games added to the Fantasy GG Timing thread:
Fantasy's GG Timing Thread
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Is Fantasy that bad now? I can imagine January also sending Stork back to iCCup tournament then hahaha
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On July 06 2011 12:20 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 13:16 dRaW wrote:
Fantasy has been playing horribly lately, but so has stork... IMO both deserve to goto B team until they can show results in practice more consistently. Even JyJ (rookie T on SKT) is playing better than fantasy... Fantasy has been quite reliable in PL since his OSL run. He has lost 6 games in a row recently but if you look at Winners League and before round 6 of PL he was doing pretty well. Fantasy's TLPD All Games Played RecentlyIt seems like after Fantasy lost to Soulkey twice in the ABCMSL he lost a lot of confidence, motivation or whatever in vZ. His mech switches from heavy bio/valk pressure in early game are not working anymore. There were very long and drawn out games on Dante's Peak ( Fantasy v Soulkey on Dante's Peak Fantasy meche'd and lost hard to queens broodling over and over. The Monte Cristo was .....sad T.T Now fantasy is trying to use bio but it is clear that unlike his sublime vulture micro/multitask his bio is looks and attacks rather clumsily and he seems to lack the gamesense many hardcore bio terrans acquired over years of vZ play (Flash, Hwasin, FBH, Ruby, Casy come to mind). So many slaughtered marines from hold lurkers..... edit: I will admit that the last 6 losses have been so painful to watch with many of those games added to the Fantasy GG Timing thread: Fantasy's GG Timing Thread
In my eyes Fanta was/is/wll be always shaky. From Late april/early may it's even worse...
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On July 05 2011 00:58 SimonB wrote:
Surprised that they sent him down to the B-team in the first place. Usually when teams do that, the player is REALLY mired in a mega slump. He hasn't been playing well since his OSL win, but I didn't think it got nearly that bad.
Edit: Check that, he was actually quite good even after his OSL win; he just had a bad spell starting in April.
I thought that happened a lot. I remember when a few gamers were slumping and decided to drop themselves to B team for a bit to work things out.
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On July 05 2011 09:22 prototype. wrote:
Don't worry guys. You can always count on fantasy to bring his A game during a finals match.
Fact: SK Telecom T1 is seeded into the grand finals
Fact: Fantasy is 4-0 in PL grand finals.
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On July 09 2011 08:34 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 09:22 prototype. wrote:
Don't worry guys. You can always count on fantasy to bring his A game during a finals match. Fact: SK Telecom T1 is seeded into the grand finals Fact: Fantasy is 4-0 in PL grand finals.
Fact: CJ will be playing in the grand finals
Fact: CJs awesome coaching and set planning will enable a skyhigh vs fantasy game
Fact: skyhigh has like an 11-1 W/L in PL playoffs or something ridiculous like that
Fact: Fantasy is 0-6 vs skyhigh
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On July 09 2011 08:51 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 08:34 Zona wrote:On July 05 2011 09:22 prototype. wrote:
Don't worry guys. You can always count on fantasy to bring his A game during a finals match. Fact: SK Telecom T1 is seeded into the grand finals Fact: Fantasy is 4-0 in PL grand finals. Fact: CJ will be playing in the grand finals Fact: CJs awesome coaching and set planning will enable a skyhigh vs fantasy game Fact: skyhigh has like an 11-1 W/L in PL playoffs or something ridiculous like that Fact: Fantasy is 0-6 vs skyhigh
lol i never understan why people rely so much on the past, sure i guess it increases ur chances but a new game is a new game, anything can happen, fantasy had never beat snow until that day when he made the 3 kill (snow (who was the PvT bonjwa) movie and someone else) even if fantasy or someone else usually does good in playoffs, i dont expect him/them to be super awesome i just expect that he goes 1 game at a time doing his best effort, even if i were a cj fan i wouldnt be so confident, i know what fantasy is capable of when he has time to prepare, did u see osl finals, he owned stork badly, he can go super awesome or super fail, so yeah he can lose to skyhigh or finally beat him like when snow, u'll never know until u see the match
skt scariest player is not bisu, even at his s class level and how good he is, at least u can read his game style and prepare for him, with fantasy, u never know, he can come up with a surprise every game
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On July 09 2011 10:15 miky_ardiente wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 08:51 xxpack09 wrote:On July 09 2011 08:34 Zona wrote:On July 05 2011 09:22 prototype. wrote:
Don't worry guys. You can always count on fantasy to bring his A game during a finals match. Fact: SK Telecom T1 is seeded into the grand finals Fact: Fantasy is 4-0 in PL grand finals. Fact: CJ will be playing in the grand finals Fact: CJs awesome coaching and set planning will enable a skyhigh vs fantasy game Fact: skyhigh has like an 11-1 W/L in PL playoffs or something ridiculous like that Fact: Fantasy is 0-6 vs skyhigh lol i never understan why people rely so much on the past, sure i guess it increases ur chances but a new game is a new game, anything can happen, fantasy had never beat snow until that day when he made the 3 kill (snow (who was the PvT bonjwa) movie and someone else) even if fantasy or someone else usually does good in playoffs, i dont expect him/them to be super awesome i just expect that he goes 1 game at a time doing his best effort, even if i were a cj fan i wouldnt be so confident, i know what fantasy is capable of when he has time to prepare, did u see osl finals, he owned stork badly, he can go super awesome or super fail, so yeah he can lose to skyhigh or finally beat him like when snow, u'll never know until u see the match skt scariest player is not bisu, even at his s class level and how good he is, at least u can read his game style and prepare for him, with fantasy, u never know, he can come up with a surprise every game
That maybe true but you are forgetting Fantasy has a tendency to just fall on his face doing those "surprises." And usually it turns into one of those epic, "wtf are you doing" Fantasy moments. Fantasy is just one of those players with a very, VERY high ceiling Skill wise, but also a very bad pit that he can fall into.
People can prepare for Bisu yes, but when Bisu is on his game (as like now. his S-class Taek Shin self) no matter how much you prepare, he'll find a way to win regardless. Like his recent game vs Hiya for instance.
Fantasy on the other hand, has his little tricks but if he misses one step like he usually does, it won't work and he'll just fall apart completely. He's way to heavily reliant on ooV. While I still believe he's the clear 2nd Terran to Flash, I have doubts in his games majority of the time. His Finals with Stork was an exception because he took it seriously while Stork didn't really do so. Stork admitted to that in an interview I remember reading.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Fantasy ,when he has time to prepare has got to be one of the scariest forces to reckon with.
but I am going to laugh if he faces Skyhigh.
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Jesus. SKT will get 4:0'ed by whatever team they face, there, I'm going to jinx your asses for all the winning.
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On another weird note, who thought CJ would actually IMPROVE with Coach Cho gone? KIMDONGWOO and his crew have really kept things moving
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the CJ coach is king of snipes.
Snow and Skyhigh for T
Movie and Hydra for Z
Horang2 for P
notice how each is only good at their sniper matchup, although movie has decent vT. If the CJ coach was terrible at sniping, no way CJ would get a 2nd seed without the coaches.
So let us hope for skyhigh vs fantasy, and proxy facts, and delayed GGs.
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On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...]
at least your team isnt centralized around 1 player.......
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On July 09 2011 12:59 Release wrote:
the CJ coach is king of snipes.
Snow and Skyhigh for T
Movie and Hydra for Z
Horang2 for P
notice how each is only good at their sniper matchup, although movie has decent vT. If the CJ coach was terrible at sniping, no way CJ would get a 2nd seed without the coaches.
So let us hope for skyhigh vs fantasy, and proxy facts, and delayed GGs.
Wat, Hydra's ZvP winrate is even higher then his ZvZ winrate.
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On July 09 2011 14:37 DyEnasTy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:56 Gescom wrote:On July 05 2011 01:19 disciple wrote:
hope fantasy comes back in shape for the GF and delivers there cause how things are going all T1 underperformers will get to kiss the trophy that was won by the individual effort of one guy who had the entire team on his back for 6 rounds. SKT won't win if Fantasy loses his match. They need him. ;( [I just don't see Best, S2, SoO all winning together... What if Bisu loses? Oh god I'm having a heart attack...] at least your team isnt centralized around 1 player.......
At least your 1 player takes 2 wins....
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On July 09 2011 12:59 Release wrote:
the CJ coach is king of snipes.
Snow and Skyhigh for T
Movie and Hydra for Z
Horang2 for P
notice how each is only good at their sniper matchup, although movie has decent vT. If the CJ coach was terrible at sniping, no way CJ would get a 2nd seed without the coaches.
So let us hope for skyhigh vs fantasy, and proxy facts, and delayed GGs.
Horang2 started playing better in every single matchup despite only being known as a strong vPer.
Movie started racking up vP wins.
Hydra's only weak matchup was his vZ last season, he just fixed that.
Skyhigh is skyhigh, he can't play non-mirror.
Snow is an all-rounder. Not just a vT sniper.
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EPT
