as much as i detest his attitude on the forums, i really hope he goes to korea, since he's young and actually appears willing to sit in a house playing sc with no outside contact.
btw, planing on making some more with other guys. first ill run through a few good foreigner terrans, then probably some protosses. if there is a player people would specifically die to see vs some progamers, lemme know.
On February 02 2010 14:51 Artosis wrote: btw, planing on making some more with other guys. first ill run through a few good foreigner terrans, then probably some protosses. if there is a player people would specifically die to see vs some progamers, lemme know.
NonY!! Although he said he wouldn't be doing any showmatches so it's probably futile to even ask .
I hope Iefnaij pwns GosI (or do I say Terran, they are both awkward to use) so the prophecy that is my TSL bracket can be complete in terms of semi-upsets.
I even find it a bit odd that the WINNER of the previous TSL is seen as an underdog verse a player who hasn't really proven himself.
On February 02 2010 14:51 Artosis wrote: btw, planing on making some more with other guys. first ill run through a few good foreigner terrans, then probably some protosses. if there is a player people would specifically die to see vs some progamers, lemme know.
Machine is gosu, have him show Koreans how it's done.
Man just watched game 1 and the start of game 2 (still watching) and this is pretty high level play from Terran. Still some mistakes but definitely doesn't remind me of a foreign terran
Game 1 was extremely impressive. He looked confident in his build and mechanics, and really played a quality game. In particular his vulture harass had great multitask and looked quite pro. You could tell in game 2 that the poor kid was overexcited and nervous because he was making a few mistakes with his economy. That said, his micro was incredible that game, and his pushing is pretty terrifying, even with a diminished tank count. It'll take the best pushbreaking outside of Korea to deal with that. Game 3 was just absolutely fucking awesome. Carriers are imba. If Terran had scouted them I think he would have won.
for people saying that GosI[Terran] are overrated:
no, not really. he's not rated at all. i'm the one person (with a few various top foreigner gamers agreeing with me here and there) who is saying hes good. (i've been working with him for a while now, kid has sick potential, and as you can see from this series, its starting to come out.)
On February 02 2010 15:29 Jonoman92 wrote: Kolll + GosI[Terran] = overrated imo
I hope Iefnaij pwns GosI (or do I say Terran, they are both awkward to use) so the prophecy that is my TSL bracket can be complete in terms of semi-upsets.
I even find it a bit odd that the WINNER of the previous TSL is seen as an underdog verse a player who hasn't really proven himself.
I really hope that JF will not do any similar to how Draco did...but i kind of have this bad feeling, that he will get owned 3-0, cause no practice. I still hope for some surprise from JF
Shit, the Laundry Toss. I don't envy the nickname.
Also Artosis, I don't know if you are the observer, but I think you are. There's a reason why you should just skip on the minimap rather than sliding the screen around everywhere. It's really annoying to look at.
On February 02 2010 16:19 Artosis wrote: for people saying that GosI[Terran] are overrated:
no, not really. he's not rated at all. i'm the one person (with a few various top foreigner gamers agreeing with me here and there) who is saying hes good. (i've been working with him for a while now, kid has sick potential, and as you can see from this series, its starting to come out.)
The guy who commentates TSL, releases videos of progamer showmatches vs foreigners and has his own SCBW talk show MIGHT be pulling a bit more weight than your average joe.
Dan I know all that lack of meat has made your brain rot but lets not try and pull the "he is hardly rated" thing please...
On February 02 2010 16:19 Artosis wrote: for people saying that GosI[Terran] are overrated:
no, not really. he's not rated at all. i'm the one person (with a few various top foreigner gamers agreeing with me here and there) who is saying hes good. (i've been working with him for a while now, kid has sick potential, and as you can see from this series, its starting to come out.)
lol, i met GosI (back in the day his ID was ArtOfTerranS) at WCG 200...6 I believe and he was getting decent, he was 13-14years old at that point and he was playing BW already 24/7... I guess that he hasn't changed at all and has gotten good... Pretty cool if he manages to make it to Korea, that would be great for Buggers
People got to quit saying players are "overrated" that's dumb. These players are very young, if anything, it's a miracle that at their age they're able to play bw somewhat competitively with a few Koreans in fucking 2010.
It's a blessing they don't play DDR or Guitar hero like 80% of teens.
You guys dissing their skills are dumb.
So what ? They get raped by some pro gamers ? HOHOH big news, every foreigner does ?
So what if they don't hold a 150% win ratio against everyone around ? Should we just instead, keep praising all day long accomplished and old players such as white ra, mondragon or even Grrrr... for that matter ?
To get good at Starcraft you need to get raped over and over and over and over again, and the hardest the rape the better =[
The only thing you guys should be doing is cheer them to death so that they attract the maximum attention on themselves.
Now some people might not like the way Artosis is hyped about a player, but fuck, when I was managing Elky in Korea, every single game he played on tv or lans felt like puting me on coke while watching him, lose or win.
On February 02 2010 18:00 Boonbag wrote: People got to quit saying players are "overrated" that's dumb. These players are very young, if anything, it's a miracle that at their age they're able to play bw somewhat competitively with a few Koreans in fucking 2010.
It's a blessing they don't play DDR or Guitar hero like 80% of teens.
You guys dissing their skills are dumb.
So what ? They get raped by some pro gamers ? HOHOH big news, every foreigner does ?
So what if they don't hold a 150% win ratio against everyone around ? Should we just instead, keep praising all day long accomplished and old players such as white ra, mondragon or even Grrrr... for that matter ?
To get good at Starcraft you need to get raped over and over and over and over again, and the hardest the rape the better =[
The only thing you guys should be doing is cheer them to death so that they attract the maximum attention on themselves.
Now some people might not like the way Artosis is hyped about a player, but fuck, when I was managing Elky in Korea, every single game he played on tv or lans felt like puting me on coke while watching him, lose or win.
QFT. Best reply. I think it's really important for foreigners to get as much exposure as possible. Why? It's beneficial for Starcraft. It's beneficial for E-Sports. Also, it gives us chances to see that people like us (foreigners) can one day persevere and defeat Korean progamers if we work hard enough.
Although not anywhere close to their former glory, Boxer, Reach, and Nada, whether it be a single game or not, losing to a top foreigner gives lots of people in 'our' scene and immense feeling of pride. Hell, just watching, like Boonbag wrote, a foreigner get the chance to play a progamer is amazing. I am so glad OGN is allowing us to view all the preliminary rounds, if available I will not miss a game IdrA plays. I hope he gets past at least one of his groups (looking like MSL might be a better shot though, hopefully we get to see his games, but if he goes up against BoxeR we probably will).
On February 02 2010 15:40 Xeris wrote: i think terran is legitly good, although he has trouble playing under pressure... kolll = overrated tho
I dont think you can overrate a 14yo who plays bw for like 1,5 years and got WCG foreigner first place (first three places arent really achievable unless the koreans kill themselves) in his first time ever taking part in WCG. He beat Idra, who was already training in a proteam for a long time, handily in a big pressure match. I bet if there was a 14 yo kid from the US who just played bw for a year and was already as good and successful as kolll, youd hype him up till no tomorrow. Imo, you cant overrate Kolll, what he did is completely insane and unparalleled in the foreign BW scene. If hed go to korea Im pretty sure hed be playing leagues pretty fast.
i gotta say that i was really impressed by gosi[terran]'s play. I think he had a good chance to win all 3 games if not for a few silly mistakes that he made ( in game 1 he shouldve brought scvs out earlier and turret because he got owned by zeal bombs T_T.... game 2 all he needed was 3 goliaths with his push and the shuttle / arbiter wouldnt be able to sit on top of his tanks... and in game 3, that was really damn sneaky by the toss to fake arbiter and go carrier, it was nice play and if gosi[terran] just scouted it better he would have won for sure ) anyways, GG and I hope to see more games from Juan ;D
Well after watching this and his ro16 match in tsl i think anyone has to accept that he is the real deal in TvP. I'd like to see more of his other matchups though. His series against the estro zerg (though admitedly the 45name guy was really strong) wasn't to impressive and I haven't seen a TvT of Terran yet.
On February 02 2010 14:51 Artosis wrote: btw, planing on making some more with other guys. first ill run through a few good foreigner terrans, then probably some protosses. if there is a player people would specifically die to see vs some progamers, lemme know.
On February 02 2010 14:51 Artosis wrote: btw, planing on making some more with other guys. first ill run through a few good foreigner terrans, then probably some protosses. if there is a player people would specifically die to see vs some progamers, lemme know.
why not kolll vs a Korean Terran?
I'd love to see if his muta micro is really strong enough to rape Korean B teamers.
On February 02 2010 14:51 Artosis wrote: btw, planing on making some more with other guys. first ill run through a few good foreigner terrans, then probably some protosses. if there is a player people would specifically die to see vs some progamers, lemme know.
Thanks a lot for these casts Artosis, I am really enjoying seeing where and how foreigners rank up against Korean A and B teamers right now. In the future it would be nice to see White-Ra, Drieven, or Brat_OK. But then again, seeing any good foreigner would be great.
On February 02 2010 23:17 Corvi wrote: anyone knows what type of character gosi-terran is? could he adapt to the korean progamer lifestyle?
if so, i would really like to see him at estro. he surely has a lot of potential and age-wise he would also fit better than ret and nony.
what is the lifestyle of a korean progamer? In my eyes they are 24/7 BW robots and dont even know if they do something like drink or go out, I guess they do. Pretty sure GosI will fit to that because he is young, he is a little chubby and pretty sure he is not good with the ladies, he prob doesnt drink and doesnt go out other than movies ocasionally... I think he'll fit the korean lifestyle of a pro.... plus, i mean, he is a kid, he is going to be living the dream so i think he is going to take full advantage of that and work hard to not screw it up. The real question here is... will his mom allow him to drop out school to play a game?
Of course Terran can be overrated - that is, if people rate him much more highly than his skills warrant. I don't think that is the case, however. The only games I have watched of his were his games from the WCG group play, where he was damn impressive, showing quick thinking, good control and not really any weak spots. He could indeed do very well.
I have only seen a few games from Koll, who seems to have mastered some elements of the game very well, but it's as complete a player as Terran has turned out to be already. I'm rooting for Koll, though; I hope his time will come.
It seems that with IdrA in Korea, and ret leaving it, that the two foreigners who really might have what it takes to succeed in the Korean proscene are GosI[Terran] and Kolll, just by virtue of age and dedication.
I mean, based on rekrul's infamous reality/progaming post, you either need to be incredibly single minded in your dedication; (Idra) or just effortlessly be the popular kid (NonY). Seems like Terran and Kolll may both have what it takes in the former category.
So it'd be nice to see those two in action particularly.
I would like to see DaZe taking on a pro zerg, White Ra taking on a pro zerg or terran and ofc Brat_OK to his best MU. and I always wanted to see sataNik going far in BW (korea) but that will never happen (maybe in SC2,lol)
Why exactly does he want to go to Estro, which has managed to essentially abandon foreigners as soon as they get them? Are all the stories about shitty practice conditions for Idra, Nony and Ret somehow falling on deaf ears? How is he so different from them?
On February 03 2010 02:57 radar14 wrote: Why exactly does he want to go to Estro, which has managed to essentially abandon foreigners as soon as they get them? Are all the stories about shitty practice conditions for Idra, Nony and Ret somehow falling on deaf ears? How is he so different from them?
I think eSTRO is really the only way to get your foot in the door. They actually show interest in obtaining foreign gamers.
On February 03 2010 03:40 ReiKo wrote: OK, can someone explain me in first game at 9 minute mark how did Reaver shoot burrowed mine?
I was wondering about that too. Maybe the scarab was bugging out on it's way to the vulture and exploded right there or he accidentally fired at the CC.
On February 03 2010 04:35 ReiKo wrote: We may never find out...call Mulder and Scully.... X-Files StarCraft division.
There have got to be other unsolved SC mysteries. Perhaps aliens the 4th race have something to do with it?
I WANT TO BELIEVE
(I want to download some X-Files episodes)
As to the issue at hand, I already mentioned my desire to see Kolll show his skills against Koreans, but I would also love to see Brat_OK. The guy has always impressed me as one of the strongest Terran players in the foreign community, and yet he seems to get comparatively little press. Also, Artosis mentioned in a recent video (not sure which, which is to say my memory is flawed, not that the dude is prolific enough), that Brat has shown some big improvement lately. If that's the case, I see him as a TSL contender, and I would love to see him strut it with some eStro B-teamers.
GG and thanks a bunch for these videos Artosis! I had a bit of trouble of hearing your voice over the SC music and sounds though, so maybe you should lower your volume in BW.
On February 03 2010 05:04 Kare wrote: You guys cant say kolll is overrated, he plays like a korean pro lategame zerg which is really impressive to watch
Kolll isn't overrated, he was just very over hyped.
On February 03 2010 13:27 Pato wrote: lol strato u flame terran so much but i can recall myself u playing 24/7 also so don't be so drastic cause u where the same as him
huh, im not flaming him at all, im just stating some facts because i know exactly what it was like, im just saying that by him playing 24/7 for 3 years in a row he has a good chance now to do something great for himself in the korean scene... i really hope he does well
On February 02 2010 18:00 Boonbag wrote: People got to quit saying players are "overrated" that's dumb. These players are very young, if anything, it's a miracle that at their age they're able to play bw somewhat competitively with a few Koreans in fucking 2010.
Just need to comment on this, it's a lot easier to be good at a game at a young game. If you start playing seriously at the age of 15, in 1 year you're expected to be a lot better at the game compared to if you started at the age of 19.
The fact that they started playing so young might be impressive, or the potential they have. However, saying that it's a miracle they're that good at their age is just stupid. It would be a miracle if someone started playing Starcraft at the age of 20 and became that good in the same amount of time.
He played really well, much better than vs 45[Name] but he always has idle scvs. He needs to clean up his play a little but that obviously comes with practice.
On February 03 2010 17:42 JoMal wrote: He played really well, much better than vs 45[Name] but he always has idle scvs. He needs to clean up his play a little but that obviously comes with practice.
Well, Flash has idle SCVs all the time as well so I doubt it's too bad. Unless they're in / near his mineral lane.
On February 02 2010 18:00 Boonbag wrote: People got to quit saying players are "overrated" that's dumb. These players are very young, if anything, it's a miracle that at their age they're able to play bw somewhat competitively with a few Koreans in fucking 2010.
Just need to comment on this, it's a lot easier to be good at a game at a young game. If you start playing seriously at the age of 15, in 1 year you're expected to be a lot better at the game compared to if you started at the age of 19.
The fact that they started playing so young might be impressive, or the potential they have. However, saying that it's a miracle they're that good at their age is just stupid. It would be a miracle if someone started playing Starcraft at the age of 20 and became that good in the same amount of time.
You didn't get a single word of what I said =[
It's not about them beeing young. It's about the fact that 12 years after the release of Starcraft, some non Korean kids are actually attracted to play the game to the point of wanting to go Korea and play pros.
It's awesome that Starcraft 12 years after its release, is able to offer something you can't find anywhere else.
Besides that, many fail to realise that their judgements skill wise are irrelevant, and that unless you're able to formulate your thoughts in Korean to the correct persons, it wont help anyone, especially the players under the spotlights.
What I'd like to hear, is rather comments on Korean comments, as in asking Grape his thoughts, and from that, elaborate for instance.
Estro people are the ultimate judges of their skills, if not Artosis as he's setting this up himself.
I mean, it's like sending an amateur chess player against a pro and whining about the results while also questionning someone's aspirations.
As for Koll and WCG because I saw it mentionned several times, well, while WCG might not be the best evaluation of skill, WCG is one of the very single entrance to Korea for a player.
Elky for instance was able to perform in Korea and get invited to leagues and stuff BECAUSE he got 2nd at WCG. Even with the same skill level he had, without that 2nd place he would never been a pro gamer.
What some here are trying to breach for westerners to go to Korea seems to me like a better attempt at sending people to pro gaming. It profiles the players pretty well imo and they should get decent results from this, someday.
Also, over the two last years, we had a batch of a grand total of 3 players going to Korea to try it out. While the way it is done and the results aren't OSL an MSL titles, we got one who is still in Korea playing.
Imagine how many young semi pros and practice partners in Korea fail every year in their pro gaming attempts ?
How many titled champions we've witnessed go into retirement over the last 3 years ? (eventho its mostly generational consequence).
Now considering 1/3 of the foreigners that went there in the last two years actually found a spot in a team without any prior local structure to train them and get them to Korean level, other than ICCUP, I think it's pretty good results and should encourage the community to support any decent and young player formulating the wish to go pro.
Actually, and this is merely a personal opinion, I would rather had TSL run longer with much more games played, and the pool prize devoted to paying the winner's expenses for 3-6 months in Korea.
How was terran so sure protoss wasn't going dt? He skipped ebay for a while in favour of a fast 2nd fact, and took a little bit to get mines as well. Would he not have been completely destroyed by a dt build? Ignoring the fact that he eventually won, was such a gamble really worth taking?
Neat games, would be nice to know what terran's personal thoughts on the matches are.
On February 04 2010 00:45 Pang0lin wrote: Well the winner can spend his money on going to Korea if he wants, doesn't he ?
I'm not saying he can't, I'm just discussing the matter of the means of sending someone to Korea as it seems nowadays foreign community support could become significant in a way or another in achieving such goal.
On February 04 2010 00:36 Nightmarjoo wrote: Question: In game 1, + Show Spoiler +
How was terran so sure protoss wasn't going dt? He skipped ebay for a while in favour of a fast 2nd fact, and took a little bit to get mines as well. Would he not have been completely destroyed by a dt build? Ignoring the fact that he eventually won, was such a gamble really worth taking?
Neat games, would be nice to know what terran's personal thoughts on the matches are.
he didnt know, its just a gamble, like protoss only building one cannon
To be honest, I think these games show how bad a B teamer is instead of how good Juan is. Juan is a good player, I'm not going to insult him, but watching these games with some B+ level Protoss friends, I've noticed that Grape does the stupidest things ever, and his mechancis are kinda iffy.
These games should motivate ALL foreigners, because they show that B teamers aren't that much better, if at all then most top foreigners.
Plus IdrA is only a B teamer, and we've seen foreigners take games off him, so it's not the first time we've seen a comparison of B teamers to foreigners. And IdrA has been doing really well in the B teamer tournaments too.
I think he progressively did worse in then 2nd and 3rd set though. I think he should have pushed a little further to Grapes bridge in the 2nd set to keep grapes map control down. He also should have assumed Grape was going carrier or arbiter tech and defended accordingly. Good response in the main with the mines and tanks, but he must have completely forgot about his 3rd. As long as he can hold out and keep his contain it would be 3 base to 3 base and eventually Grape wouldn't be able to do anything.
In the 3rd set, I think Grape just played very well, although of course Terran could have done better. I'm surprised he let Grape take the bottom right so damn easily, and he could have taken it out way earlier if he pushed properly. Clumping all his tanks and a-moving allowed Grape to get off tonnes of great storms and delay the expansions death for quite a while. And then of course the main problem of not being adequately prepared for carriers. I also feel he could have put on a lot more pressure after killing all the dragoons early-mid game, but taking a quick 3rd and 4th is also an alternative.
Terran played well , he obviously has what it takes to become a progamer if he puts as much dedication as needed . Skill wise i still think Ret is as close as a foreigner will get to a B - teamer . His ZvT and especially his ZvP are progamer's level and from his last showing in courage when he went 4 - 0 in ZvZ not counting the first guy because he was a joke he showed that he can improve a lot in the MU in a small amount of time . I'm still mad that Estro didn't show greater interest in him and also the dickhead that accused Ret for leaking replays .
Why GosI would try to take 12 o'clock on HBR is beyond me. It's one of the worst expos to defend. This isn't what broke the camel's back in that game though. Grape did a great job of delaying and denying his pushes. If JF can show similar control with his Reavers GosI might have a hard time. I'm looking forward to some good games this weekend.
***
A suggestion for you Dan,
Drop the rhetorical question you leave at the end of each segment. Instead, make a statement. Such as, "Follow me on twitter.com/artosis for up to the minute news on Starcraft."
It's far more succinct and this way you don't beat around the bush. The only reason people watch your videos is because they're Starcraft fanatics. You don't have to ask the obvious.
For some reason I get the feeling estro's B-teamers aren't as good as other team's B-teamers ... simply because they seem to have the most limited amount of resources and players (excluding ACE of course).
On February 05 2010 10:53 lac29 wrote: For some reason I get the feeling estro's B-teamers aren't as good as other team's B-teamers ... simply because they seem to have the most limited amount of resources and players (excluding ACE of course).
actually, eSTRO's B-Team was known for being one of the strongest in the past, for having players like Puma, Suny, Action, etc. on it. Recently they have moved up the ranks though, and become A teamers, so the B-team isn't as strong as it once was. Despite this, the B-team is not particularly weak on eSTRO. I haven't really followed DreamLeague this season, but I suspect the results there can show this a bit as well.