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Well there is a nice statistics, thank you for listing these.
On August 31 2009 03:32 dmfg wrote:
Besides, we all know the 5th bonjwa is KeSPA. No pro-gamer stands a chance when they step into the ring with KeSPA - you know they're going to get dominated and abused before it even starts...
Didn't Blizzard try to fight agains KeSPA? Like they (blizzard) would had any change.
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On August 31 2009 04:44 ryuu_ wrote:JD is such a monster... its just insane.. ah the beauty of the Swarm 
hes more than just a monster
hes more than just insane
hes... a BOAT!
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On August 31 2009 05:50 IcedTea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote:
The problem is that during this time Bisu and Flash have been right there with him, at times even better. Jaedong's usually been the best, and he's got the Golden Mouse and everything, but there have been plenty of players (Bisu, Flash, fantasy, free, and apparently Stork to name a few) with a good chance of taking games from him. This gives the impression that players like Savior didn't lose games. They did still lose though, obviously. What was their winning % during their reign? And are we really going to hold it against Jaedong that he can lose to top players (even though he has a 50%+ win% against almost all of them)? Is the distinction that Jaedong loses to good players while Savior (etc) lose to bad no-names? If they had a huge winning % advantage over Jaedong I can see it, but if they're right in the same 68% range then I do not understand. Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote:
I mean, even six months ago we were debating whether Luxury (LOL) might have finally polished his ZvZ to be better than Jaedong's. We were wrong, of course, but when a player's signature matchup isn't secure, he just isn't a bonjwa. I'm not really sure what to make of this. Jaedong has the best vsZ of all time. Oov was bonjwa and was amazing at TvZ, but that doesn't mean he never lost a single vZ match ever. People seem to act like, since Jaedong has lost a match or two he cannot be bonjwa. Last I checked though, Boxer, Oov, Savior, etc did not have a golden mouse so they weren't exactly infallible either.
Let me say this as succinctly as possible: it's not just about the stats.
When Savior beat Nada in Shinhan 3, you wouldn't have found a single real SC fan on the planet who wouldn't have admitted that Savior was bonjwa. Bonjwa doesn't mean you're a favorite (or statistically a favorite) against everyone - it means you are considered to be an entire tier above every other player in the world.
That's what Savior was - there was absolutely no dispute. This may come as a shock to people now, but Savior was a widely (not universally though) hated player when he dominated - the love you see for him now did not exist back then. Many people in the Korean community and on TL hated him because he beat their favorite player in every match that mattered. But everyone would admit that he was far and away the best player with no rival. You don't have to "prove" someone is a bonjwa - everyone just knows. It's as simple as that.
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On August 31 2009 05:50 IcedTea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote:
The problem is that during this time Bisu and Flash have been right there with him, at times even better. Jaedong's usually been the best, and he's got the Golden Mouse and everything, but there have been plenty of players (Bisu, Flash, fantasy, free, and apparently Stork to name a few) with a good chance of taking games from him. This gives the impression that players like Savior didn't lose games. They did still lose though, obviously. What was their winning % during their reign? And are we really going to hold it against Jaedong that he can lose to top players (even though he has a 50%+ win% against almost all of them)? Is the distinction that Jaedong loses to good players while Savior (etc) lose to bad no-names? If they had a huge winning % advantage over Jaedong I can see it, but if they're right in the same 68% range then I do not understand. Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 04:10 Musoeun wrote:
I mean, even six months ago we were debating whether Luxury (LOL) might have finally polished his ZvZ to be better than Jaedong's. We were wrong, of course, but when a player's signature matchup isn't secure, he just isn't a bonjwa. I'm not really sure what to make of this. Jaedong has the best vsZ of all time. Oov was bonjwa and was amazing at TvZ, but that doesn't mean he never lost a single vZ match ever. People seem to act like, since Jaedong has lost a match or two he cannot be bonjwa. Last I checked though, Boxer, Oov, Savior, etc did not have a golden mouse so they weren't exactly infallible either.
Bonjwa means EVERYONE agrees on it. Like, have you met someone that DOESNT believe savior wasnt a bonjwa?
Bonjwa refers to stats + the style of winning. There is a difference between Jaedong's style and savior's style of owning. And Bisu/Stork/Flash/sometimes fantasy can beat the snot out of Jaedong because they are almost equal/slightly more skilled than Jeadong at times.
When savior was owning... he was owning... hard.
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On August 30 2009 22:40 nonduc wrote:
Year by Year Statistics:
2006 — 78 games: 33–65 (65.4%)
2007 — 131 games: 90–41 (68.7%)
2008 — 149 games: 102–47 (68.5%)
2009 — 143 games: 98–45 (68.5%)
Total — 501 games: 341–160 (68.1%)
wow, now that's consistency
On August 30 2009 22:40 nonduc wrote:[Addendum] — JD vs Bonjwas:  vs Boxer — 2–0 vs Nada — 5–1 vs iloveoov — 2–2 vs sAviOr — 5–3 vs ToSsGirL — 2–0
to those trying to name the 5th bonjwa, here (s)he is!
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Holy hell, haha.
I love random stats and that's some awesome info. And yeah, wtf Stork? hahaha. Awesome.
Thanks for this. =)
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I didn't realize his zvp was always that good
I always thought it was in the 50% range before he took down stork...
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On August 31 2009 03:23 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 03:14 Elian wrote:I'm newer to the community, and I was wondering: For the whole Bonjwa deal, did they name the other bonjwas during the middle of their peak, or after a period of evaluation or something. How does it work, exactly? It seems like with these numbers over the past 5 years JD has proven enough? Awesome post btw, really fun read. Time to print some Starcraft baseball cards.  After Savior got done wtfpwning everyone at the end of Shinhan 3, they decided to call him bonjwa, and also oov, NaDa, and Boxer too afterwards. Their defining characteristic is that they dominated really hard, but most of them had sharp declines and usually sucked vs the bonjwa after them. Their dominance and fall were also usually directly linked to changes in the metagame that they brought about and consequently fell to.
Thanks for the history lesson. You too jayme.
It's really crazy how many Matches Jaedong has played in such few years. Pretty amazing, really.
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On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote:
And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf
haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate!
+ Show Spoiler +and gesh that only happened cause of last day or so SIGH
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i see you have lots of time in your hands o.o
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On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote:
And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf
haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate!
Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^
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Interesting breakdown. I thought it was interesting that he's actually got a pretty even record against other top level players (Stork, Bisu, Free, Flash). And man, has he played a LOT of games this year... so many leagues...
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On August 31 2009 03:14 Elian wrote:I'm newer to the community, and I was wondering: For the whole Bonjwa deal, did they name the other bonjwas during the middle of their peak, or after a period of evaluation or something. How does it work, exactly? It seems like with these numbers over the past 5 years JD has proven enough? Awesome post btw, really fun read. Time to print some Starcraft baseball cards.
4 pages in before someone implies that JD might be bonjwa.... TL training is having an effect on jaedong fans... we know its true, we just hide the truth deep inside ourselves so that we don't get flamed
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Man if JD retires (i was just watching his 22min highlight video) I think I'll cry.
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On August 31 2009 08:43 Kuja900 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote:
And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf
haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate! Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^
No, it was missing a 2-0 from Jaedong.
Players with a positive H2H against Jaedong that I can list are
Backho
Casy
Sheis
ForGG
Stork
Orion
Tester
Firebathero
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This is pretty cool, thanks!
How long did it take you to do this?
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Russian Federation405 Posts
On August 31 2009 11:01 ghostWriter wrote:
This is pretty cool, thanks!
How long did it take you to do this? For your pleasure!
How long? I dunno… M.b. some days, or a week, or… some weeks (incl. the comparisons and corrections)… This is for fun — I did not count hours and days.
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Katrina & Katrina SE — 22 games: 19–3 (86.4%)
insane, esp on an everything >>> Zerg map
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United States2822 Posts
On August 31 2009 09:30 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 08:43 Kuja900 wrote:On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote:
And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf
haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate! Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^ No, it was missing a 2-0 from Jaedong. Players with a positive H2H against Jaedong that I can list are Backho Casy Sheis ForGG Stork Orion Tester Firebathero
That list looks so weird, just looking at name-value.
I mean, there's "destroys every Zerg no matter what" Casy, "8-0 TvZ all-time" Sheis...
But Backho? Stork? Hahaha.
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United States11391 Posts
On August 31 2009 09:30 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2009 08:43 Kuja900 wrote:On August 30 2009 22:50 Plexa wrote:
And the only gamer that has a winning record vs Jaedong is....
Stork?! wtf
haha
p4ndemik is doing a beastly job adding every missing game to TLPD so in a few months you won't be able to say its inaccurate! Free has winning record v jd aswell ^^ No, it was missing a 2-0 from Jaedong. Players with a positive H2H against Jaedong that I can list are Backho Casy Sheis ForGG Stork Orion Tester Firebathero
ForGG also has a hilarious positive h2h record against Bisu.
He's also ahead of Flash but is Stork's bitch. >_>
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EPT
