• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:48
CEST 10:48
KST 17:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week1[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation14$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 1 - Final Week Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 522 users

How we relate. streamers & viewers, men & women

Blogs > Todie
Post a Reply
Todie
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden46 Posts
August 23 2013 11:27 GMT
#1
What the entry is about and why:
Recently stumbling upon lininpink's interview with Tara Babcock actualized the recently hot(-or-not?) topic of "women in E-sports" for me - i must have missed the discussion on it while i was disconnected for a few weeks. Hearing mention of Taras video "a sober view of both sides" as well as her appearance on unfiltered #16 for a wider discussion on the topic made me curious enough to check them both out: Finally, livinpink's recent vlog-entry about "getting involved in a new community" pushed me over the edge to attempt compiling some thoughts of my own on the subject in this blog entry.

In rational discussions about how female contributors in Esports are treated, there seems to be an agreement about women being treated differently than men. Not just because they are / expected to be / different, but because they are quite few, at least when it comes to players and casters.

Two sides of the coin
Just to make some clear distinctions, how are women treated differently than men? In browsing unknown content, a viewer will use the limited information about the contributor that is thrown at them to form an opinion about them, in a not necessarily concious attempt to decide if they are interested and how they will relate to them. In the discussions, two sides of the same coin stand out clearly. Firstly, women get noticed much more easily, their very gender will grab attention of the average male viewer; By contrast, there are few-if-any enticing conclusions - good or bad - to come to about your average unknown male stacraft streamer, (unless you are patient enough to stick around and interact/relate to what he does ingame)...

The other side of the coin is that after getting noticed, females seem to have a harder time getting their contributions taken seriously. I believe this has to do with the limited information, or potentially faulty conceptions, that viewers base their opinions on. She got our attention because she's different; because she's a she. some give her casual attention because some feminine individuality is a nice change. some because they find her attractive, some get bothered by the previous and like to continually make a fuss about it, some out of jealousy / sense of entitlement... These things may obstruct attention to this female for any aspirations of being a serious contributor. In the end, its like everywhere else; first impressions are important and sometimes hard to change.

Understanding the viewer

Contributors have some idea about how they are perceived. While it might be rare for contributors to take as excessive notice of trending sources of viewer opinions as Destiny outlines in the mentioned episode of unfiltered, it seems reasonable to assume that many contributors do actively relate to their image; those that take in any amount of feedback certainly continually improve their understanding of it.

But how do they use it? They aught to use it by taking to heart constructive criticism that helps them get perceived in a way that more closely resembles their own honest outlook on who they are as a contributor, what they aim to accomplish and how to communicate this to viewers.

... i presume this might be easier said than done, both for the aspiring male contributor that struggles to get noticed at all and for the female contributor that is lucky to find anything of real relevance to serious aspirations in her pile of love- and hate-mail.

Conclusive statements

Arguably, there is always a degree of complexity in interaction between the genders. Complexity that in this scene, is further accentuated by the history of significant gender stigma in gaming at large. I want to make two conclusive statements in this blog entry:

#1 regardless of gender, direction of aspirations and degree of seriousness, contributors will have a better experience if they start out accepting their relative ignorance about how they are perceived and WHY, and from there, gradually work to improve that knowledge and to more effectively communicate their true image.

#2 conceptions and expectations go both ways; male viewers quickly notice female contributors, but often have a harder time relating to them as serious contributors. There is prejudice, but i believe there is also a mutual failure to bridge, undermine and preempt this prejudice: Yes, that female streamer you just stumbled upon is probably different from you in her experiences - maybe in her identity - as a gamer, and you might jump to judgement about it, but unless those differences are actually talked about, and those baseless judgements somehow challenged, why would things change?

Thank you for reading.

*
Petter Rudberg @Todie #3264 on Discord /u/Todie on reddit
TreK
Profile Joined August 2004
Sweden2089 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-23 13:09:16
August 23 2013 11:54 GMT
#2
Bergkamp ftw!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 361
Hyuk 327
Backho 262
Soma 71
Noble 68
Sharp 47
JulyZerg 32
sorry 27
NaDa 18
yabsab 18
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 17
Sacsri 16
Bale 13
Free 11
IntoTheRainbow 6
Soulkey 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe420
XaKoH 304
League of Legends
JimRising 600
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss746
chrisJcsgo74
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor146
Other Games
tarik_tv3316
shahzam773
Stewie2K672
ceh9466
crisheroes300
monkeys_forever253
Liquid`RaSZi147
SortOf92
Lowko75
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick23365
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH387
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• LUISG 0
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• tankgirl 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2182
League of Legends
• Lourlo1467
• Stunt463
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
1h 12m
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
4h 12m
Replay Cast
15h 12m
RSL Revival
1d 1h
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 7h
OSC
1d 11h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.