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Top30 Koreans September

Blogs > 00Visor
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00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 12:59:22
September 03 2012 12:52 GMT
#1
Right before the new GSL season, well almost, I will present you the newest Korean ranking.

KarlWarkov already posted his Top30 Foreigners September: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=363667
My last ranking (Top 30 Koreans August): http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=357581

Introduction
+ Show Spoiler +
There is always a lot of discussion who the best SC2 players are. Some automated ELO rankings like TLPD (or sc2charts.net) provide an idea but are not satisfying. Based on KalWarkov`s Top30 Foreigner Ranking, I present you my Top30 Koreans.

The players should be ranked by their current overall skill.
To judge this, obviously recent results count more, but a GSL win doesnt put you on #1 automically and an established player who is slumping a bit won't fall too far.

I hope we can get a nice discussion going like in the other thread. I will regard your opinions for the next ranking. Please consider that the skill-gaps are pretty small and there is no real difference between 3-4 places (especially in the lower part).

I could give explanations why I placed the players in this order but I guess I wait for your critics.



Ranking
1. (0) (T)TaeJa (Liquid)
2. (0) (P)MC (SK)
3. (+2) (P)Squirtle (Startale)
4. (0) (Z)DongRaeGu (MVP)
5. (+2) (P)Seed (IM)
6. (-3) (T)MarineKing (Prime)
7. (+1) (Z)Symbol (TSL)
8. (+6) (P)Creator (Prime)
9. (-3) (T)Byun (Prime)
10. (+1) (T)MVP (IM)
11. (-2) (Z)NesTea (IM)
12. (0) (P)HerO (Liquid)
13. (+4) (P)PartinG (Startale)
14. (+2) (Z)Leenock (FXO)
15. (-2) (Z)Curious (Startale)
16. (+3) (Z)Life (Startale)
17. (-2) (T)MMA (Slayers)
18. (-8) (Z)CoCa (Slayers)
19. (+3) (P)Puzzle (Slayers)
20. (+5) (T)GuMiho (FXO)
21. (+6) (Z)Sniper (MVP)
22.(-1) (P)San (NS HoSeo)
23. (-3) (P)Alicia (Slayers)
24. (0) (P)Genius (Slayers)
25. (+1) (T)Polt (TSL)
26. (+4) (Z)viOLet (Azubu)
27. (*) (P)First (IM)
28. (*) (Z)HyuN (TSL)
29. (*) (T)SuperNova (mtw)
30. (-7) (T)Jjakji (NS HoSeo)


Dropped Out: aLive (Fnatic), Oz (Fnatic), YoDa (IM)
Close but no cigar (lol terrans): Happy (IM), Bomber (Startale), Ryung (Slayers), Hack (Startale), Heart (coL), Keen (MvP), Vampire (MvP), LosirA (IM), and of course the dropped out players

Teams: Slayers 5, IM 4, Startale 4, Prime 3, TSL 3, Liquid 2, MVP 2, FXO 2, NsHoseo 2, SK 1, Azubu 1, mtw 1

What about KeSPA players?
For now I exclude them, because we haven't seen enough of them to rank them accordingly.

Explanation on changes
I also made a few changes based on your reponses to the last ranking. Mainly dropping Byun and Coca a bit.
For korean tournaments, there basically only was WCS and the Up&Downs in the last month. You can't value a Bo1 in OSL too much. So there are several players with (almost) no results. And therefore there weren't too many big changes in the ranking.
  • Taeja found his nemesis in First which eliminated him from TSL and MLG. He won Assembly, was 7-1 vs IM in the IPL TAC finals and still beat 7 others koreans at MLG. He retains his top seed over MC who got two second places at Assembly and IEM.
  • We didnt see a lot of MKP and DRG in the last month. MKP disappointed at MLG, DRG at WCS. I won't value the Bo1 in OSL too much. Can anyone pass them? Squirtle did well in WCS, getting second. But also lost in TSL to Curious and a showmatch to Hyun. Seed did ok-ish in WCS (3-2 record), Symbol only played some euro cups. I give Squirtle the small edge and thus rank 3. MKP will fall behind DRG and Seed. But its very close and we need to see more.
  • Creator seems to be the biggest winner though he didnt qualify for Code S through up&downs. He won WCS and made the final of TSL.
  • Leenock is on the comeback as well. Please notice that he didnt need to beat any Code S players to win MLG. Korean WCS is valued a lot higher. Where Leenock didnt do well. Thus Parting gets placed above him.
  • HerO only lost to the later winner Creator in WCS, won 4 other matches and then forfeited. He also dominated his up&down group. MLG was ok-ish. He doesnt move up because he gets passed by Creator, but he gets closer to Nestea+MVP.
  • Sniper was doubted by some of you. He just qualified for Code S with a 3-0 record.
  • Oz' month was a total disaster. 0-3 in Up&downs, 0-3 at MLG and lost to Targa and Grubby at IEM. I first dropped him down near the end and when I searched for players to fall out of the ranking, I realized it had to be him. Other players move down several spots for a little disappointing results, so falling from 18 to out of the ranking, is justified for Oz.
  • First is one new player on the list. A lot of you demanded him last time. Now he really deserves it with a 2nd place at MLG and beating Taeja in TSL as well. He still has to prove against more high ranked koreans to be placed higher. As of now he 'only' beat Taeja and HerO.
  • aLive also drops out due to weak up&downs and MLG. Oh well, tough month for Fnatic (both players falling out of Top30).
  • That makes place for Hyun, the second new player. He dominates the IPL showmatches and european competition in online cups. Still the only big win was vs Squirtle. Like First, he needs to face top competition to move up further.
  • Poor YoDa only played one match this month and will fall out. Mainly because Supernova was doing well and I thought he had to be in. You could swap those if you want.


***
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
September 03 2012 12:55 GMT
#2
You put SuperNova as CBNC, but he's 29th in your list.
ॐ
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
September 03 2012 12:59 GMT
#3
On September 03 2012 21:55 endy wrote:
You put SuperNova as CBNC, but he's 29th in your list.

thx, just realized this as well
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
September 03 2012 13:18 GMT
#4
please explain why Jjakji is stillon the top30 list while winning only versus code b players in ESV cup (and a 2-1 versus gumiho) since beginning of july.
Also I dont agree with the placements of MVP, Leenock, MMA, Squirtle, MKP, DRG etc
A lot of them are in a huge slump and some of them are very consistant on winning stuff. But still the MLG champ/IEM champ/GSL champ are ratd worse than players who slump since few weeks.
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 13:56:00
September 03 2012 13:34 GMT
#5
On September 03 2012 22:18 Tppz! wrote:
please explain why Jjakji is stillon the top30 list while winning only versus code b players in ESV cup (and a 2-1 versus gumiho) since beginning of july.
Also I dont agree with the placements of MVP, Leenock, MMA, Squirtle, MKP, DRG etc
A lot of them are in a huge slump and some of them are very consistant on winning stuff. But still the MLG champ/IEM champ/GSL champ are ratd worse than players who slump since few weeks.


The only really bad result from jjakji was his recent 0-3 in the up&downs. He was one of the strongest players in the last GSTL and recently also qualified for WCG.

MLG and IEM championships shouldnt be overvalued. I don't judge by titles, but by players beaten. Look at the top15 and think of which players have been at MLG or IEM, not many. Like I said Leenock didnt beat any Code S players at MLG.
Why should I value Leenock above Hero, Nestea, Byun, if he hasnt beat this caliber of players?

The GSL title is really valuable and Seeds 5th place is really really good if you consider that Seed had basically no achievements before his GSL win. Winning GSL doesnt make Seed the best player automatically. We have to monitor him carefully.
You yourself demand that jakji falls out of the Top30 who was a GSL champion just 9 months ago.

And regarding the 'slumping': MMA is not slumping, he is just not playing any tournaments besides GSL at the moment. The expectations on DRG and MKP are just very very high. People only notice when DRG or MKP lose something .Every other player (besides Taeja and MC at the moment) is losing several games here or there. DRG and MKP were the top2 players not too long ago. They have been disappointing (more so MKP) and they have dropped. The belief that they are capable of winning something big, is still there. And thats what this ranking is about, not a ranking of results in the last 1-2 months.
wwJd)El_Mojjo
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden173 Posts
September 03 2012 15:32 GMT
#6
Nice! I really like these kinds of lists!
I wonder why you need to limit the list to just koreans though? Why not include foreigners too? It would probably only be 2-3 foreigners in the list anyways. I understand the point of having a foreigner only list though, but personally I think it would be more interesting to have a world list rather than a korean list.
Gc.El_Mojjo
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
September 03 2012 16:12 GMT
#7
On September 04 2012 00:32 wwJd)El_Mojjo wrote:
Nice! I really like these kinds of lists!
I wonder why you need to limit the list to just koreans though? Why not include foreigners too? It would probably only be 2-3 foreigners in the list anyways. I understand the point of having a foreigner only list though, but personally I think it would be more interesting to have a world list rather than a korean list.


Thx
I didnt include foreigners, because, yes, it would be Stephano and maybe Naniwa or Nerchio. Nerchio doesnt have a big samplesize against koreans. The biggest problem is that the discussion would focus mostly on the foreigners then, e.g. if Stephanos achievements are big enough despite not playing GSL etc. That would hurt the discussion about koreans.

If more of you think otherwise, I may review this.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
September 03 2012 19:01 GMT
#8
I would switch Seed and Squirtle; otherwise very accurate ranking.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
September 03 2012 20:25 GMT
#9
I think Leenock should be higher...
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
ThePhan2m
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Norway2750 Posts
September 03 2012 20:27 GMT
#10
On September 04 2012 05:25 mizU wrote:
I think Leenock should be higher...

Agreed

Though soon nothing like that matters. Top30 will be all kespa in couple of months =)
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 03 2012 20:37 GMT
#11
Nice ranking. Leenock should definitely be higher for that huge tournament win, but this top 30 looks legit
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1933 Posts
September 03 2012 22:12 GMT
#12
What did Byun do to deserve being higher than MVP? 1 good GSL performance > winning IEM more recently?
esports
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 22:45:17
September 03 2012 22:43 GMT
#13
I think I explained a lot about Leenock. Leenock would have gained more spots if not the others around him (Creator, Hero, Parting) had done well, too.

Regarding Byun: Byuns GSL performance was not good, but superb. Fionn stated in his recent GSL preview that he was the best player for most of the last season (until he choked against Seed). Byun was widely regarded as one of the world best players by other koreans even before his comeback in the GSL. He then proceded to qualify for Code S in the first try, and last season had that amazing run. He also qualified for OSL (where he then lost). He just plays constantly on a high level and hasnt lost much.
Now MVP. Like I said an IEM win shouldnt be overvalued. He won against Nestea and lost against violet. In the playoffs he beat 3 Euro Zergs in slivko, vortix and Nerchio. That is not really too special if you are fighting to be one of the ten best korean players. In Homestory Cup, not too long ago, MVP disappointed. His other recent results were losing to Polt in WCS, losing to Baby in WCG and losing to Flying in OSL (only Bo1).
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
September 07 2012 13:00 GMT
#14
Evaluation of this weeks GSL/OSL/WCG/GSTL:
- MKP confirmed why I still rank him high. Advanced in GSL and WCG.
- jjakji with great showings in WCG and GSTL, seemed he just had an off-day in up&downs, will move back up
- Seed looking dominant in GSL and GSTL, will fight with MC (losing in GSL) and Squirtle for 2nd place
- Curious wins his GSL group as well, but it seems like that goes unnoticed like everything from him
Short news: Hero strong, Happy fights to entry Top30, Byun rather weak, Leenock advances over Parting and should swap with him
Benjamin99
Profile Joined April 2012
4176 Posts
September 14 2012 12:16 GMT
#15
Good list 00Visor. I do think Polt is a bit low but that's just properly my inner fan boy talking:D
Stephano & Jaedong <-- The Pain Train. Polt and Innovation to EG plz
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