• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:50
CEST 16:50
KST 23:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League35Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War1335.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Terran AddOns placement No more sc2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 Server Blocker
Tourneys
WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10250 users

Perfect's Showmatch Apology

Blogs > VTPerfect
Post a Reply
VTPerfect
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 05:01:19
November 14 2011 04:53 GMT
#1
I must say that coming up with 400 words of apology to Pokebunny is quite difficult. Luckily I may also talk about why the game is balanced. So here it is; Pokebunny, sorry for saying "LOL" when you mentioned BW Mechanics. Sorry for also complaining in our old VT practice games that gateway units were so bad instead of typing gg and leaving the game. Sorry for making so many balance threads and getting my old TL account NearPerfection so many warnings and bans. Sorry for complaining even louder than IdrA without any major tournament wins and probably being just as or more wrong than him at times too. Pokebunny is a strong player especially in his age-group and I'm sure if he decides to pursue a progaming career he has a good chance of succeeding.

That said, I would like to say that currently PvT is very close to balanced and that although Gateway units don't have anywhere near the utility of Bio, It's a manner of finding the exact Gateway unit compositions vs X builds in order to the "right" amount of gateway units while being able to tech to units with more utility.

Gateway vs Barracks
- I complain about gateway units often because there are very many situations where a 2/3rds or more less costly tier 1 army defeats a protoss tier 1 army. This leads to situations where even if a Protoss is ahead if he finds himself in such a situation he will lose regardless. This is undoubtedly frustrating. One of the most notable examples of this is NASL S1 finals between MC and Puma on Shattered temple where MC is 40 supply ahead 170-130 of Puma, Puma then suicides 2 medivac full of MM in order to kill charge. Charge is cancelled and then Puma despite a very large army deficit is able to annihilate MC and win the game because all of MC's Sentries/HT were EMP'd and zealots have a movespeed of 2.25 while stim marines have a movespeed of 3.37 thus Puma was able to achieve an insane level of cost efficiency and win the game.

Since this time Rax build time has been increased to match that of the gateway, Charge although not completely fixed (it is still possible to not be hit by charging lot before charge runs out) is much stronger than previously. EMP radius has been nerfed to that of Psi storm 1.5. These changes seem to effect mid to late more than simple Rax/Gateway.

Here is where I go into the Realm of "Situation Theory". Although Technically base stat wise Rax is superior. The key to being a great Protoss player is to avoid the known situations where Rax is superior, and exploit the situations where gateway is superior. Blizzard has given the Protoss player 3 seperate mechanics to create this cost efficient situations, and is it on the Onus of you the Protoss player to find and exploit these "hidden gems"

The best way to locate these is to know "when" gateway units can be cost efficient. The easiest discovery is when 2 marines or 1 marauder is Immobile, it cannot defeat 1 zealot. When mobile, a Marauder with CC can comfortably beat 2 zealots and 2 marines can comfortably beat 1 zealot. Therefore it stands to reason that situations where Bio is mobile are not desirable and therefore should be avoided. The Mechanic Gateway units have in order to achieve this state is Forcefield, therefore One should always be aware how many forcefields are required to create this immobile state, and to avoid positions where you are lacking in the energy required to have the number necessary.

The second mechanic Protoss has to increase efficiency is Gaurdian Shield. This decreases damage from ranged units by 2 in the AoE. 2 little known effects of the spell that you should know is that firstly, when one of your units IE (zealot) is in Melee range of a ranged unit (Roach/Marine etc) GS buff does not apply. The good news is this is usually a small percentage of total range fire that isnt applied to. the bad news is that it still sux ranged units turn into melee one (xD). Secondly the Radius of GS is only 4. while the Attack range of the Sentry is 5, Thus in order for the GS effect you MUST move your sentry closer to your zealot line. Attack moving will rarely give you the effect that you paid for with 75 energy.

The third mechanic has to do with Warp In, because you can literally Warp In units as is needed to create your desired situations IE Zealots to be hit by Marauders, Sentry if you need more ff to make them Immobile etc.

To put this into real numbers

1 zealot vs 2 mobile marines - Marines win with no damage taken
1 zealot vs 2 immobile marines - Zealot wins with 72/100 total hp left
1 zealot vs 2 immobile marines under the effect of GS - Zealot wins with 87/100 total hp left

This has many ramifications that have already been widely explored by most top level players. Namely MC's GSL runs were largely based on this type of play using a large amount of gateway units in combination, full wall forcefields to apply "immobile", Gaurdian shield to further increase positive efficiency and bang Terran player is busted. However both Terran/Zerg have methods to heavily decrease the efficiency of these gateway timings Namely 400 HP repairable bunkers and Spinecrawlers. That is why we rarely see Mass gateway timings at higher level play but the same principles my be used in a defensive manner in order to tech to more cost efficient units like the Colossus.

I originally wanted to type much more but Sc2 is such a complex game that even with this blatant summary I havent even begun to touch on the game as a whole. That said I would also like to give away a little secret i've been holding on to for a long time.

Colossus - This unit has gotten a bad rap for being attack move, no skill required terribad unit that ruined the game. However that is not quite the case as is believed. Here are the currently accepted short comings of the Colossus

- Line Splash is easy to manipulate by your opponent moving single units forward to absorb all the Line and thus decreasing Colossus DPS immensely

- Colossus is Too Expensive to harass

- Colossus does not respond well to higher skill levels like other units such as Ghosts/Marines.

Firstly, Line splash manipulation adds more skill to the game and does not necessarily make the Colossus underpowered. Unlike is believed The colossus should be Micro'd and responds well to micro. When your opponent moves units forward/backward to avoid Line splash, it is your responsibility to manually select a Target thwarting your opponents attempt altogether. Mind altering i know.

Secondly The colossus is indeed very expensive to be used in a Harassing why, however sometimes it is worth the risk to Cliff walk and take a few workers out of a mineral line. Secondly with the new WP buff dropping a colossus with WP has alot less risk involved.

Thirdly the secret i've been sitting on for quite a while is the way the Line splash mechanic works. In general the colossus is limited to 5 Small units OR 3 Medium/Large units. However The fun happens when I say that the Depth of the Splash beam is somewhat influenced by the Size of the unit it is targeting. This means that in Attack move mode, your colossus will only attack the front 5 marines increasing Colossus dps by x5. However, If there is a Larger unit mixed in with the Marines IE a Marauder, and you Manually FF the Marauder, Your Beam Depth becomes widened to include 2 Rows of marines rather than 1 row. This can effectively Double your Splash DPS under the right Circumstances allowing you to hit 10 units at a time.

Another method to dramatically increase Colossus DPS is to FF "in" units that is to force Many units into less space than is required in total by the unit. This allows you to circumvent the normal 5/3 Maximum as well because even if the Line splash can only hit 3 Marauders wide/deep, If 7 marauders are in 3 marauder's Area because of Forcefield, Then all 7 Marauders will be hit at the same time.

Perfect is smart, Perfect is gosu but Pokebunny is the better Sc2 player overall cause his Zerg is stronger Afk. Also David Kim plz don't nerf me.

***
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2929 Posts
November 14 2011 05:18 GMT
#2
5/5 Great apology letter with some good insight into protoss vs terran.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
SCPlato
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States249 Posts
November 14 2011 05:24 GMT
#3
Really cool idea for a showmatch. I wonder if people will do similar stuff in the future. Glad to see you kept to the deal and wrote the apology blog.
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. -Plato
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
November 14 2011 06:25 GMT
#4
Hey, no one is perfect.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
November 14 2011 06:36 GMT
#5
Most strategically useful and actually apologetic apology letter I've seen.

Some parts of this letter could be put into the strat forum and it wouldn't be out of place.

(Races are different and have strengths and weaknesses and you should utilise them in ways that are suitable to their strengths? OMG REVELATION)
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
WickedSkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Netherlands81 Posts
November 14 2011 07:47 GMT
#6
All I could read is that two marines can kill a zealot comfortably. Toss players sure are patronizing. Good apology though it eventually became a weird mixture between balance discussion and a toss guide. Gj sir
Drone chasing probe, Tasteless quietly watching (Artosis)
Allied
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States129 Posts
November 14 2011 07:55 GMT
#7
amazing blog / apology/ etc
twitter: @AlliieD
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
November 14 2011 08:42 GMT
#8
That's one hell of an apology. Very insightful, especially the part about the Colossus splash, didn't know that.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
November 14 2011 09:04 GMT
#9
meh, as a protoss player i normally avoid talking about balance to make sure that people dont associate with all the TZ QQ-er out there :-/

Instead of thinking about balance, its better to think about how to constantly improve your mechanic to win under any circumstances is always better. The game wont be balance in the next 3 years until the Protoss expansion come out. And even then there still nothing to guarantee that it will be balance.

BW is balance yeah? with Terran domination across the board? Please... However the latest OSL winner is JangBi who play the race with the least tournament result for the last 3 years (protoss).
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
ESPRITsc
Profile Joined April 2011
200 Posts
November 14 2011 09:18 GMT
#10
On November 14 2011 15:25 Alur wrote:
Hey, no one is perfect.

That made me laugh.

Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 14 2011 09:47 GMT
#11
bwahah, good effort. Nice apology!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RuMCaKe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States559 Posts
November 14 2011 11:06 GMT
#12
<3
twitter.com/RuMCaKeS
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
November 14 2011 14:48 GMT
#13
everybody makes mistakes... everybody has those days
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
dde
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada796 Posts
November 14 2011 15:21 GMT
#14
i thought this was about apology letter to community for whining too hard about balances. All i see is balance qqing.
yes
VTArlock
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1763 Posts
November 14 2011 15:40 GMT
#15
O god dude, I can't believe you actually did this lol. I talked to him on facebook a few days after those matches and he said something along the lines of "I shouldn't even make him write it because I lost in both TvP AND PvT".
LULZ
Why?
VTPerfect
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States487 Posts
November 17 2011 01:23 GMT
#16
On November 15 2011 00:21 dde wrote:
i thought this was about apology letter to community for whining too hard about balances. All i see is balance qqing.


dde your such a troll
Fuhrmaaj
Profile Joined January 2011
167 Posts
November 17 2011 03:41 GMT
#17
On November 15 2011 00:21 dde wrote:
i thought this was about apology letter to community for whining too hard about balances. All i see is balance qqing.


If this is serious, I agree. The initial paragraph is 136 words, including the two sentences which are the premise and not the apology. I don't mind a balance discussion or a discussion of matchup balance, but that could be posted in a separate thread?
Random player
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
20:00
#109
WardiTV1086
IntoTheiNu 1068
OGKoka 569
Rex129
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 569
Rex 129
Codebar 65
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 45432
Calm 3146
Jaedong 1883
Shuttle 1634
EffOrt 686
Horang2 553
Stork 524
Mini 520
Soma 429
firebathero 416
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 346
Rush 331
actioN 286
ZerO 257
BeSt 225
Snow 174
sorry 122
Killer 112
Zeus 90
hero 88
Barracks 88
Mong 82
Sea.KH 64
Shinee 49
Creator 34
Bishop 29
Noble 29
Hm[arnc] 26
ToSsGirL 26
Sexy 25
Sacsri 22
soO 21
Yoon 19
Shine 18
Terrorterran 16
Aegong 14
yabsab 13
HiyA 12
scan(afreeca) 12
Dota 2
Dendi987
syndereN333
Fuzer 97
Other Games
singsing2552
B2W.Neo1684
hiko1133
olofmeister1127
Lowko410
crisheroes342
Liquid`VortiX217
Hui .163
ToD66
QueenE57
KnowMe37
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 493
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile111
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV597
League of Legends
• Nemesis3461
• Jankos2646
• TFBlade888
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
1h 10m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
20h 10m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 20h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.