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Germany38463 Posts
No pictures, it's too cold outside
I'm in a rut, I've come home discouraged, bothered and annoyed with myself. In a sense, I am anti-social outside of social occasions. I only realize that now; in light-hearted situations, I am completely acceptable, tolerant at least. I have an acting class and on the way back, I was invited to sit with a fellow classmate and her girl friends on the bus where we discussed civilly and intelligently; the theories of why women consider jobs such as stripping, prostitution, etc. We talked about our favourite movies, who the hell Kate Moss was, etc. Everything and nothing, the in-between of what the institution demands of us, what our social circle desires from us and that small window of conversation where we talk to pass the time and to gain, absorb someone's other perspective (and not needing to contrast it with the textbook or the recent theory you've memorized).
When I come out of those social contexts, I feel great, I feel like I am still connected to this world. Connected to the people my age, their interests, issues and values and can at least relate or not alienate them by my point of view. It sounds like an insecure perspective, but I disagree.
I just came out of my 400-level course of Sociology. This is suppose to be the top of the courses in Sociology: a specialized study about Sociology and Emotions. The class has no real structure besides reading various texts (that few read for some odd reason) and then it's just endless structure with the teacher being the moderator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XgQhMPeEQ
The issue is, the conversation is all rudimentary, it feels all poorly articulated and thought out. They usually resolve and revolve around anecdotal and personal stories to depict or validate a theory the teacher proposes. Sometimes they'll blur words together (as if they're synonyms) such as confidence (with arrogance) and associate it needlessly with aggression (instead of assertiveness) and it'll devolve from there into even more overly-drawn out stories about how someone doesn't cry when they die (and everyone in the class believes that culturally you should cry, when in reality, it's a culture belief that you grieve [her story was that she doesn't cry, but get angry, which is another form of grieving, but I didn't interject or correct for the sake of the discussion]).
What I'm getting to is that this was the first class I thought I'd contribute and make an impression. I felt like I knew a lot, at least more than some others [especially that guy everyone likes or at least gets a good feeling listening to but really don't have a direction or point]. The first time I participated in the conversation, the teacher's auto-response was: "Can anyone translate that?". Silence loomed over the entire classroom. "Can you repeat that?" I obliged, repeated it with the same structure and choice of words. "She gave the same off-guard look she gave last time." A reaction I was familiar with from my previous years in CEGEP (a pre-college sort of thing) where I give an intelligble jumble of Word Salad. Essentially words that are larger than they don't really need to be. I've serve this same meal for years in all my papers, views, etc. The comments are the same: "Brilliant writer, sometimes hard to read". My papers were always the White Rabbit of Wonderland, obscurely running away from the actual point as if I need to say everything that needed to be said in order for you to get my point of view and yet to deny its validity is to question your own understanding of material as if you trust my judgement of the subject (an illusion of how I word paragraphs and thesis?).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8o4os6Um6g&feature=related
I feel like I'm the wrong kind of smart, what I say always clashes with everyone and kills conversations, destroys the line of thought and just reverses the whole orientation of the disucssion or the point the professor was hoping would be deduced. It was fine in CEGEP because no one gave a shit about the courses and the teachers starved for any sort of positive contribution.
Here? Everyone is eager to wear their brain-badge, their years of funded schooling and personal experiences they feel they've accumulated as an adult and experienced person. Life's barely started, but these institutions always instill the view that we know more than we should at our age, at least for me sometimes. The next few times I talked, it was always in disagreements and no one challenged it. Not because I was right but because no one knew what the hell I was saying, though it had some sense, with what they could grasp. It's not because I'm smarter or better than them, it's because I just don't think like them, I'm not one of them and I'm not pedaling the same rotation they are. Some would think this uniqueness is great, interesting, special, but in reality it creates friction, halts the pace and ultimately makes everyone uncomfortable, intimidated that what they might say is going to be challenged and cannot be conceded (whenever I talk, I can't help but only talk when I can properly disagree).
If someone inquired for more detail and gave me a blackboard, I'm pretty sure I could elaborate on my idea even wider and I guess that's a positive point. But now I'm in the dilemma of what do I do? Do I say tell them to go fuck themselves and crash the class of any reasonable discussion (at least attempt to, not with the malicious intent to do so, but only because I want to talk to. Ultimately, I want to give my point of view and learn from others who disagree, but it never occurs. Perhaps it's my own arrogance [a front of my insecurity or unsureness of the actual material] or perhaps its something I never considered). Do I stop talking and just let the class flow (I did the first two classes and it was delightful for everyone else. I was just bored and disinterested because I disagreed with so much) or do I drop out and perhaps consider another class?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6MqxKHmTQ
If this is noteworthy, I talked to the teacher after to see if she had any detestation towards me. I inquired if there was a way for me to participate in the class without talking openly during the class. I suggested essays and she cut me off and said that I didn't have to talk in class. She said it quickly and disdainly. I apologized for what I felt I sometimes killed the conversations (there were many short bursts of silences after I said my piece) and she interrupted again to ensure I didn't have to talk, it wasn't sympathetic either, just plainly and the intonation was doward rather than inquisitvely upward. My expected response from her was that she'd assure me that what I was doing was contributory or at least not as deterrent as I imagined, but she didn't seem very inclined to hear me speak up (my English teacher[s] in the 10-11th-12th grade did the same and told me to just keep my head down).
So that's essentially my situation. There's no short version that I'm willing to detail. At least the female on my right has grown a bit more kinder towards me.
Edit: things that have been deduced thus far: 1. You're not smart if no one can understand you. You're are only as smart as you can explain it (and have it understood).
2. Speaking up only to disagree + fancy words makes you look like a douchebag. Somehow that didn't click for me...
3. Breathe.
4. The longer it is, the harder it is to fully grasp as a whole concept or argument.
5. talk slower, elaborate, more cheery and less words + concession.
 
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Germany38463 Posts
Songs have no relation to the issue, I just wanted to post some good songs.
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Sometimes they'll blur words together (as if they're synonyms) such as confidence (with arrogance) and associate it needlessly with aggression (instead of assertiveness) and it'll devolve from there into even more overly-drawn out stories about how someone doesn't cry when they die (and everyone in the class believes that culturally you should cry, when in reality, it's a culture belief that you grieve [her story was that she doesn't cry, but get angry, which is another form of grieving, but I didn't interject or correct for the sake of the discussion]).
I'm just saying, most people don't have the attention span to finish that sentence, even if you were to speak it to them. Try distilling your thoughts and agreeing with everything in any way you can think of. People will probably like what you have to say because you're really not bad at talking/writing.
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This is not a win-win game. Not eveyone can be right. Either you are saying stupid stuff, either they are too stupid to understand it. Until you have decided which one it is, there is little advice we can offer.
That is, if you want any advice.
// rephrasing following above post : either nested parentheses are stupid, either I am too stupid to understand nested parentheses. Your choice.
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Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:07 Apom wrote:
This is not a win-win game. Not eveyone can be right. Either you are saying stupid stuff, either they are too stupid to understand it. Until you have decided which one it is, there is little advice we can offer.
That is, if you want any advice.
// rephrasing following above post : either nested parentheses are stupid, either I am too stupid to understand nested parentheses. Your choice.
That doesn't make any sense. They are not stupid, I am just using a dialect or choice of words that are outside the norm (like this very sentence, I will say this publicly and on the spot without hindrance). The issue is is that I'm pointlessly elevating my vocabularly to compensate for a rather normal counter-argument that I have. It may be an inherent issue within myself, but it also doesn't sound my connundrum.
In Social Science, you'll learn everyone is right because all situations are interpretative and explained by various theories (see youth gangs for example).
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hmm I was expecting you to say you were insane.... LIKE ME :D . But really most of my classes are the same I say something that makes since to me (such as "Vancouver is 1 minute ahead of Victoria so if it's 12:00 here its 12:01 there) but nobody else understands.
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On January 12 2012 09:07 Apom wrote:
This is not a win-win game. Not eveyone can be right. Either you are saying stupid stuff, either they are too stupid to understand it. Until you have decided which one it is, there is little advice we can offer.
That is, if you want any advice.
// rephrasing following above post : either nested parentheses are stupid, either I am too stupid to understand nested parentheses. Your choice.
I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me... but if you disagree I'll be sad because I was trying to be positive. ?
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I think the responsibility lies on the smarter person to make themselves understood. Its easier to talk down/slower to someone than to expect them to have to learn new words to understand you. Usually you can make your same point with smaller words and still have a meaningful discussion.
Good songs!
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Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:06 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +Sometimes they'll blur words together (as if they're synonyms) such as confidence (with arrogance) and associate it needlessly with aggression (instead of assertiveness) and it'll devolve from there into even more overly-drawn out stories about how someone doesn't cry when they die (and everyone in the class believes that culturally you should cry, when in reality, it's a culture belief that you grieve [her story was that she doesn't cry, but get angry, which is another form of grieving, but I didn't interject or correct for the sake of the discussion]). I'm just saying, most people don't have the attention span to finish that sentence, even if you were to speak it to them. Try distilling your thoughts and agreeing with everything in any way you can think of. People will probably like what you have to say because you're really not bad at talking/writing.
I can't think of any possible way of agreeing with them. At least not in a timely fashion before the conversation jumps off to another point. It's probably the hardest thing to do unless the person is thinking simiarly to me (and some people make points I would make, just not recently unfortunately).
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On January 12 2012 08:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
Songs have no relation to the issue, I just wanted to post some good songs.
I was wondering those were in there.
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On January 12 2012 09:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 09:07 Apom wrote:
This is not a win-win game. Not eveyone can be right. Either you are saying stupid stuff, either they are too stupid to understand it. Until you have decided which one it is, there is little advice we can offer.
That is, if you want any advice.
// rephrasing following above post : either nested parentheses are stupid, either I am too stupid to understand nested parentheses. Your choice. That doesn't make any sense. They are not stupid, I am just using a dialect or choice of words that are outside the norm (like this very sentence, I will say this publicly and on the spot without hindrance). The issue is is that I'm pointlessly elevating my vocabularly to compensate for a rather normal counter-argument that I have. It may be an inherent issue within myself, but it also doesn't sound my connundrum. In Social Science, you'll learn everyone is right because all situations are interpretative and explained by various theories (see youth gangs for example).
You should elevate your vocabulary to make your speech more efficient by using less words, rather than just using words because you know them.
I can't think of any possible way of agreeing with them. At least not in a timely fashion before the conversation jumps off to another point. It's probably the hardest thing to do unless the person is thinking simiarly to me (and some people make points I would make, just not recently unfortunately).
You don't have to actually agree with them, it's just a great way to make people who feel like they're social wizard-savants like what you say.
Final piece of advice... pretend TL mods/users are watching you talk and will rip you a new one if you mess up. 
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Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:16 Alisera wrote:
I think the responsibility lies on the smarter person to make themselves understood. Its easier to talk down/slower to someone than to expect them to have to learn new words to understand you. Usually you can make your same point with smaller words and still have a meaningful discussion.
Good songs!
Yeah, this is right and I agree. You're not smart if you can't explain it in a way that others understand. You only validate my topic title even more (but in a new dimension, thank you!).
I'm thinking of spending more time explaining my viewpoint rather than just leaving them dryly to figure it out on their own. I think perhaps I approach the conversation just to counter instead of coming in as a part of the circulation (and not to get my slice from the pie).
Did I just morph 3 abstracts together?
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In the case of your teacher if it really went the way you described it, then she can go fuck herself.
Like I have a similar problem not that I think I'm the wrong kind of smart but just that I find I process information differently than most people so I tend to interpret things differently or when I talk/write I tend to ramble on forgetting the point I'm trying to make. I don't think its wrong to think differently from most people but if you realize that what you say kills conversations I just learned to keep it to myself or go with the flow unless I really feel the need to share my thoughts even though I know I'll probably fail to make my point clearly.
Also if you know that you tend to be wordy and rambly just when you write try to make a conscious effort to communicate in ordinary prose and remind yourself often what the point you are trying to make is.
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Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:17 English wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 08:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
Songs have no relation to the issue, I just wanted to post some good songs. I was wondering those were in there.
Because they're good and makes the topic easier to read :D
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Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:17 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 09:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 12 2012 09:07 Apom wrote:
This is not a win-win game. Not eveyone can be right. Either you are saying stupid stuff, either they are too stupid to understand it. Until you have decided which one it is, there is little advice we can offer.
That is, if you want any advice.
// rephrasing following above post : either nested parentheses are stupid, either I am too stupid to understand nested parentheses. Your choice. That doesn't make any sense. They are not stupid, I am just using a dialect or choice of words that are outside the norm (like this very sentence, I will say this publicly and on the spot without hindrance). The issue is is that I'm pointlessly elevating my vocabularly to compensate for a rather normal counter-argument that I have. It may be an inherent issue within myself, but it also doesn't sound my connundrum. In Social Science, you'll learn everyone is right because all situations are interpretative and explained by various theories (see youth gangs for example). You should elevate your vocabulary to make your speech more efficient by using less words, rather than just using words because you know them.
I'm thinking of recording myself so you guys can see how the fuck I sound like during the class. I sound like an obnoxious asshole everytime and I can't stand it. The teacher tried to reiterate my point and I wanted to fucking tell her no, but I slowly and minimally nodded my head knowing that if I disagreed, it'd only delay the learning and the point of the class. It was a battle worth fighting for.
How would I go about cutting the fat off my sentences and using my vocabularly more keenly?
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Would you give a few specific examples? As in, brief context behind and then your argument from your psychology example or another situation? I'm confused as to what you mean by "different," and slightly skeptical because in most situations where someone brings up a point and everyone reacts to it in the manner you describe, it's usually because it's a non sequitur or completely stupid. You do write intelligently and you seem to appraise situations very well, so I'm confused because it seems you would appraise your own situation well, too... so please, example?
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TO be Honest you just Sound Like:
1) You're a Douchebag
2) You Think like a douchebag
or you enter conversations with bias that you assume other people are less intelligent, or wrong, or you have a superior opinion.
If you speak and you use big words, and your message insinuates "i have the right position/opinion and it is unbending"
its not that you're smart(er). it really is that people don't understand you, your thoughts and your words are incoherent.
Yes its a sentence, and it sounds like a dragon casting fucking magic.
but if someone is speaking to you, having a conversation in that manner, other people have to assume that person is retarded or slight uncomfortable.
I would Suggest Articulation.
Speak like you would if you were talking to yourself in your head, rather than if you were trying to impress someone.
Use expressive terms, such as I feel like, in my opinions, but I think
rather than condescending or elevated patterns of speaking.
Or Everyone else could be of Sub par intelligence and out to get you.
P.s don't drop out of a 400 class because you feel smarter than them, for gods sake
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What is the difference between psych and sociology?
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Delete your post and then re-type your post. Then do that again and again until people can easily understand it. Post like you do on TL(not the new topic posts, but the reply posts ) and you should be victorious. I believe you could be accidentally making it into new topic posts instead of new replies.
Possibly, you could be the next guy to revolutionize the world with your new way of thinking. GL.
edit: Where'd all the replies come from! When I was posting there was only one o.O
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Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:18 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
In the case of your teacher if it really went the way you described it, then she can go fuck herself.
Like I have a similar problem not that I think I'm the wrong kind of smart but just that I find I process information differently than most people so I tend to interpret things differently or when I talk/write I tend to ramble on forgetting the point I'm trying to make. I don't think its wrong to think differently from most people but if you realize that what you say kills conversations I just learned to keep it to myself unless I really feel the need to share my thoughts even though I know I'll probably fail to make my point clearly.
Also if you know that you tend to be wordy and rambly just when you write try to make a conscious effort to communicate in ordinary prose and remind yourself often what the point you are trying to make is.
You have to consider I'm bias, I try not to be, but there is a very likely bias. I honestly want to knock her skull open, but she does care for the welfare of the class and doesn't want to deter me from talking (she let me talk 5 times out of the whole conversation and tried to keep the ball rolling without dismissing me. So she did try).
The issue is, I hated high-school because everything was in French, so I couldn't ever talk (I can't express myself clearly and intelligently as I can in English), so I never got to participate in class.
Then in CEGEP, I talked a lot, but no one ever debated with me so the class was always just rambles. I didn't feel any interaction or exchange of intelligent thoughts. I didn't learn anything from anyone in my class.
Then it just hardens from there and in these two years of Uni, there were never any discussions except for this final sociology class and thus the issue arises.
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EPT
