I notice when people discuss map balance, they often quote the progamer's map statistics as proof as to whether or not a map is balanced. This has always been faulty. Map balance is a very complex thing to analyze, and to pretend that a group of statistics from professional games can sum it up is ignorant.

To make the point on why you shouldn't take map stats seriously, I will now explain the most obvious flaw to map stats: Nostalgia.

Many people say that Nostalgia was the most balanced map ever. It's progamer map stats back that up as well. With a huge amount of games played on the map, all the matchups were really close to even with each other.

The problem is, progamer skill wasn't balanced at the time.

When Nostalgia was popular, the best 3 players in the world were NaDa, Boxer, and iloveoov. They had been the best players in the world for a while, and they continued on afterwards for a while still.

I shouldn't have to say this, but the best players in the world contribute most to map stats, because they play the most official games (they make it further than everyone else and qualify for more and are invited to more and play more in proleague etc etc etc.).

In addition to this, they were strategic leaders for the world. While the terran domination was in place, there was a huge racial imbalance in Korea. Far more highly skilled terrans than players of other races. I'm not going to look it up, but we can safely assume that during this era the KeSPA top 30 was dominated by the terran race.

Now, if we have the 3 best players in the world as terran players, and the top 30 of KeSPA being dominated by terrans, a balanced map should have win % stats in FAVOR of terran. Nostalgia has terran winning at approximately 50%, and thus is a very imbalanced map. The stats alone for this map mean nothing. Don't ever let anyone tell you that Nostalgia is balanced. Because its not.

Map stats are not completely useless. When you know a lot about the progaming scene, current top players, and the current evolution of popular strategies, then you can read between the lines and figure out a map's real balance.

EGMachine

United States1643 Posts

April 30 2008 21:01 GMT

i agree

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:03 GMT

NAH UH

Navane

Netherlands2747 Posts

April 30 2008 21:04 GMT

didn't look at it that way before, tx!

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:06 GMT

wow artosis openin eyes and making believers...

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:10 GMT

KOREAN MAPS ARE LESS IMPORTANT HAHA

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:13 GMT

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT KOREAN MAPS KID? JESUS TRY THE HARD LIFE OF A ZERG. WE DONT HAVE FUCKING MAP CROSSING ARCLITE CANNONS, EVERYTHING CANNOT BE REPAIRS, WE DONT HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION LIKE SPIDER MINES AND WE CERTAINLY AS FUCK DONT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS CAUSE ANY GAME THAT HAS THAT SUCKS LIKE COMMAND AND CONQUER 3. ALSO, WE DONT HAVE FLYING BUILDINGS OR MOTHERFUCKING DEFENSIVE STRUCTURES THAT SHOOT AIR AND GROUND AND CAN BE REPAIRED AND COST 100$ FUCKING MINERALS. OUR WORKERS DIE WHEN THE WIND BLOWS TOO HARD AND SURE AS FUCK DONT HAVE FUSION CUTTERS. WAIT? YOU HAVE GOLIATHS THAT SHOOT ACROSS THE MAP AT AIR UNITS AND CAN BE REPAIRED AND ARE CHEAP? JESUS WHO MADE THIS GAME.

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:15 GMT

JESUS I WISH I HAD 5-6 of THE ALL TIME BEST PLAYERS TO MODEL MY GAME AFTER. WAIT? WERENT THEY ALL FUCKING TERRAN? WE HAVE NADA, BOXER, OOV, FLASH, MIDAS and XELLOS ALL KICKING ASS FOR YEARS AT A TIME WHILE WE GET FUCKING FAT ASS JULY WHO SUCKS NOW, YELLOW WHO ALWAYS FUCKING SUCKED BUT NOBODY KNEW FOR A BIT AND WE FINALLY GOT SAVIOR BUT THEN THEY DRESSED HIM LIKE HITLER SO HE SUCKED AND NOW WE HAVE JAEDONG BUT THAT KID CANT FIGURE OUT THE NEW KOREAN MAPS THAT DONT MATTER. JESUS FUCK IT MUST BE NICE TO HAVE PLAYERS THAT SPAN DECADES AND DOMINATE THE ENTIRE TIME. GIMME SOME OF THAT PLEASE.

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:18 GMT

HEY WHAT ABOUT BUILDINGS DO YOU LOSE A SCV EACH TIME YOU MAKE ONE? NO. WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN ACTUALLY TELL THEM TO RETURN TO MINING AFTER THEY ARE DONE BUILDING? I THOUGHT THAT AUTO MINING GARBAGE WAS FOR HACKERS OR BAD GAMES. TERRAN'S CAN DO IT? FUCK THAT SOUNDS LIKE A SWEET DEAL. EACH TIME WE (zerg) HAVE TO BUILD WE TELL ONE OF OUR SACRED MINERS "HEY FUCK YOU TIME TO DIE" AND THEY DO. THEN WE GET A FUCKING BUILDING. WHICH, HALF THE TIME ISNT ENOUGH: WE HAVE TO PAY MOREE FUCKING MONEY TO GET IT TO DO SOME SHIT LIKE DICK THE GROUND OR SPRAY PISS IN THE AIR.

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:19 GMT

#10

On May 01 2008 00:36 NonY[rC] wrote:
To paraphrase Grandmaster Artosis, the entirety of Terran strategy for every matchup can be summarized as waiting to get enough tanks to kill an entire army in one volley. Even the short-sighted and simple Terran players can recognize such a great imbalance. But I have to admit, having the fastest unit in the game on only the 2nd tier of tech with a short build time, that can shoot fragmentation grenades capable of vaporizing all peons, zerglings, zealots, defilers, and high and dark templar in seconds, and can even shoot these grenades backwards without losing acceleration, AND can shit out three mini-nukes that burrow into the ground only to pop out at the perfect time and seek out an enemy unit at an inescapable speed, gives siege tanks and their arclite cannons quite a run for their money.

Ah, how could I forget their cost? Let's make a list of units (excluding peons) that are cheaper than vultures:
--Zergling
--Marine

That was easy.

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:21 GMT

#11

WHEN YOU SELECT RANDOM, WHAT GAME SCREEN DO YOU GET IN BETWEEN? ANY GUESSERS? THAT'S RIGHT: TERRAN. EVEN THE FUCKING GAME KNOWS WHAT YOU SHOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE CHOSEN WHEN YOU FORGOT TO SELECT TERRAN AND GOT RANDOM. FUCKING INSANE BIAS.

EGMachine

United States1643 Posts

April 30 2008 21:21 GMT

#12

NonY

8748 Posts

April 30 2008 21:22 GMT

#13

Yeah I was hoping some Terran players can tell us Protoss and Zerg what automining is like since your SCV automines gas when it finishes a refinery. On Wikipedia it says that the word 'Terran' derives from a phrase meaning "a life of luxury" or "a life of ease". I can see why!

Gandalf

Pakistan1905 Posts

April 30 2008 21:37 GMT

#14

Etymological timeline

* circa 1300, from the Middle English terrene, "belonging to this world, earthly, secular, temporal"
* 1635: "of the Earth as a planet"
* 1881, from the Latin terra in science fiction: "of or pertaining to the planet Earth"
* 1953, as a noun: "inhabitant of the Earth"

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

April 30 2008 21:38 GMT

#15

wiki doesnt fucking lie

get the fuck out

Elric

United Kingdom1327 Posts

April 30 2008 21:40 GMT

#16

Hahaahh this thread gives me the giggles

ilovejonn

Canada2548 Posts

April 30 2008 21:44 GMT

#17

Wtf with the image macros..

Bond(i2)

Canada926 Posts

April 30 2008 21:55 GMT

#18

man artosis, you're going to need an epic come-back to reclaim your thread lololol

Krohm

Canada1857 Posts

April 30 2008 22:01 GMT

#19

Well if he just bans Inc. (I'd recommend to do this for, anyone trying to prove a point in a blog.) He might be able to recover.

I guess I should add, that Nostalgia is a horrible map for Zerg. Any map with out a gas expand is just a zerg graveyard. Stupid Zerg... needs so much gas.