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Math Problem #2 (Number Theory)

Blogs > pat777
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pat777
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States356 Posts
July 06 2009 02:24 GMT
#1
Find all integer solutions (and prove that you got all of them) to 3x^2 + 1 = 4y^3.
P.S. please put all answers in spoiler tags.

***
Solinren
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2653 Posts
July 06 2009 02:31 GMT
#2
1. gtfo
QuickStriker
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3694 Posts
July 06 2009 02:33 GMT
#3
uhh.... what is the point of this of asking in a forum that based on Starcraft??? I'm sure there's Mathematics forums out there with a little help called GOOGLE!

That being said, give me several hours and I'll try to see if I have an answer...
www.twitch.tv/KoreanUsher
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
July 06 2009 02:36 GMT
#4
Also, don't try to pretend you're quizzing us when it is probably just a question straight out of your Summer HW.
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
July 06 2009 02:39 GMT
#5
Um, this is actually fairly interesting. It's not just stupid algebra, and I don't think it's a homework question.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
July 06 2009 02:52 GMT
#6
It seems like a math contest type of problem, like the USAMTS or Pomona-Wisconsin.
Jaedong
Cheeseball
Profile Joined February 2009
Australia208 Posts
July 06 2009 02:57 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +
The only answer is when x=1 y=1 and x=-1 y=1
If x=0 then y=(1/4)^(1/3)
If x is negative, its the same as being positive because its squared
If x=2 y=(13/4)^(1/3) ---- not integer
If x=3 y=7^(1/3) ---- not integer
Because y is cubed, it cannot have any other integer values that match the equation. You would need (3x^2+1)/4 to be either 0,1,8,27,64,125, etc. None of those values lead to an integer x value
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
July 06 2009 02:58 GMT
#8
+ Show Spoiler +
It's easy to see that x must be odd.

Set x=2m+1 and simplify to get 3m^2+3m+1=y^3.

We recognize that 3m^2+3m+1=(m+1)^3-m^3, which is the tricky step.

The equation is equivalent to y^3+m^3=(m+1)^3.

By the special case of Fermat's Last Theorem when the exponent is 3, we see that m=0 and y=1 or m=-1 and y=1.

Thus the only solutions to the original question are x=1,y=1 and x=-1,y=1
starleague.mit.edu
oshibori_probe
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States2936 Posts
July 06 2009 03:09 GMT
#9
man what's the deal with the wave of hate for this?
Fuck KeSPA.
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
July 06 2009 03:16 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +
I guess it's sort of interesting that the solution involve's Fermat's last theorem. So before they started proving the special cases with computers, we, technically, wouldn't have a proof. Or is there another solution that doesn't involve FLT?
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
July 06 2009 03:19 GMT
#11
B1nary:
+ Show Spoiler +
The special case of FLT with exponent 3 is quite easy compared to the general result: It was first proven by Euler centuries ago
starleague.mit.edu
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
July 06 2009 03:46 GMT
#12
AHhhhhhhhhHHHHhhHh >_<
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
numLoCK
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada1416 Posts
July 06 2009 03:48 GMT
#13
This is definitely cool, math threads shouldn't get such hate
Just a question, what level math is this?
illu
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2531 Posts
July 06 2009 04:05 GMT
#14
Ewwwwwww it's elementary number theory.
:]
moriya
Profile Joined March 2009
United States54 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 05:06:19
July 06 2009 05:05 GMT
#15
The solution and proof.

+ Show Spoiler +

The only solution is (-1,1) and (1,1).

Easy to get x is odd,so let x=2z+1 and do some algebra: y^3=3z^2+3z+1=(z+1)^3-z^3.

Look at the above Eq. again and recall FLT, the only solution is y=0//impossible or z=0//(1,1) solution or (z+1)=0//(-1,1) solution.

Hope it is clear.



moriya
Profile Joined March 2009
United States54 Posts
July 06 2009 05:09 GMT
#16
oops just see Muirhead's post...exactly the same.
He is the first solver.
Self Help
Profile Joined July 2009
45 Posts
July 06 2009 05:10 GMT
#17
On July 06 2009 11:36 Archaic wrote:
Also, don't try to pretend you're quizzing us when it is probably just a question straight out of your Summer HW.

I know the guy personally I doubt he's asking you to do his homework for him, he's more of a math enthusiast as given by his major and school he's attending.
doghunter
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States23 Posts
July 06 2009 05:15 GMT
#18
please keep posting these problems!
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
July 06 2009 05:41 GMT
#19
evans brains just popped.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 07:24:21
July 06 2009 07:14 GMT
#20
nvm i'm not gonna worry about it
pat777
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States356 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-06 07:29:42
July 06 2009 07:16 GMT
#21
On July 06 2009 11:36 Archaic wrote:
Also, don't try to pretend you're quizzing us when it is probably just a question straight out of your Summer HW.

Next time I'll put the answer in spoiler tags just to prove that I am not trying to get HW help. Also, the answer is already online here (don't click unless you want to be spoiled):
http://www.math.washington.edu/~challenge/archive/20090505/flt.pdf

btw, thanks to all who defended me.
btw, congrats to Muirhead and moriya for solving the problem. Cheeseball had an incomplete proof.
pat777
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States356 Posts
July 06 2009 07:25 GMT
#22
On July 06 2009 16:14 Jonoman92 wrote:
Why is it obvious that x is odd? Sorry i'm a bit slow. I see that you set x equal to what its exponent was so I guess you can just disregard the coefficient for some reason.

+ Show Spoiler +
if x is even, then 3x^2+1 will be odd and 4y^3 is always even.
FirstBorn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Romania3955 Posts
July 06 2009 08:17 GMT
#23
Most of these math problem threads make me feel quite stupid.

This is not an exception.
SonuvBob: Yes, the majority of TL is college-aged, and thus clearly stupid.
pat777
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States356 Posts
July 06 2009 09:00 GMT
#24
On July 06 2009 17:17 FirstBorn wrote:
Most of these math problem threads make me feel quite stupid.

This is not an exception.

Don't feel that way, not every smart person loves math. I just post these threads to give math enthusiasts fun.
d3_crescentia
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4054 Posts
July 06 2009 09:04 GMT
#25
On July 06 2009 16:16 pat777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2009 11:36 Archaic wrote:
Also, don't try to pretend you're quizzing us when it is probably just a question straight out of your Summer HW.

Next time I'll put the answer in spoiler tags just to prove that I am not trying to get HW help. Also, the answer is already online here (don't click unless you want to be spoiled):
http://www.math.washington.edu/~challenge/archive/20090505/flt.pdf

btw, thanks to all who defended me.
btw, congrats to Muirhead and moriya for solving the problem. Cheeseball had an incomplete proof.

You know, you could avoid such situations by explaining that you're posting math problems for people to solve for fun at the beginning of each post.

The other thing is that non-mathematicians will glance at these problems and be reminded of high-school algebra.
once, not long ago, there was a moon here
pat777
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States356 Posts
July 06 2009 09:10 GMT
#26
On July 06 2009 18:04 d3_crescentia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2009 16:16 pat777 wrote:
On July 06 2009 11:36 Archaic wrote:
Also, don't try to pretend you're quizzing us when it is probably just a question straight out of your Summer HW.

Next time I'll put the answer in spoiler tags just to prove that I am not trying to get HW help. Also, the answer is already online here (don't click unless you want to be spoiled):
http://www.math.washington.edu/~challenge/archive/20090505/flt.pdf

btw, thanks to all who defended me.
btw, congrats to Muirhead and moriya for solving the problem. Cheeseball had an incomplete proof.

You know, you could avoid such situations by explaining that you're posting math problems for people to solve for fun at the beginning of each post.

The other thing is that non-mathematicians will glance at these problems and be reminded of high-school algebra.

Yeah sorry, I just don't have much experience with making threads.
Freyr
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States500 Posts
July 06 2009 16:21 GMT
#27
On July 06 2009 18:04 d3_crescentia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2009 16:16 pat777 wrote:
On July 06 2009 11:36 Archaic wrote:
Also, don't try to pretend you're quizzing us when it is probably just a question straight out of your Summer HW.

Next time I'll put the answer in spoiler tags just to prove that I am not trying to get HW help. Also, the answer is already online here (don't click unless you want to be spoiled):
http://www.math.washington.edu/~challenge/archive/20090505/flt.pdf

btw, thanks to all who defended me.
btw, congrats to Muirhead and moriya for solving the problem. Cheeseball had an incomplete proof.

You know, you could avoid such situations by explaining that you're posting math problems for people to solve for fun at the beginning of each post.

The other thing is that non-mathematicians will glance at these problems and be reminded of high-school algebra.


His critics did not misunderstand his reasons for posting, they just did not believe them. They are obviously idiots who too often reach for their keyboards before their brains. Yes it might look a bit like high school algebra but mathematician or no, trying to solve it will clearly show that it is not. The fact that it says "number theory" in the title is also a bit of a clue.

Thanks for these threads pat, I'm really enjoying them.
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