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On April 16 2009 16:01 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2009 15:54 a-game wrote:On April 16 2009 15:38 ahrara_ wrote:
Do people honestly believe that because it's natural it's better for you? Are that fucking stupid? huh? of course natural food is better for you. i'm going to just assume that you didn't intend to word it this way... And on what series of peer-reviewed studies do you base this judgment? There is zero conclusive research indicating that non-organic foods have a statistically significant negative impact to health. They may have greater pesticide residue, but the impacts of that are minimal. I really hope no one here believes that buying "all-natural" herbal supplements is superior to "non-organic" medicine. That's the kind of ideological, baseless drivel I fucking loathe.
Are you familiar with the way science works? It all comes down to funding, and those doing the funding are usually governments or large corporations. They have an interest in providing low cost and sometimes even unhealthy food.
If evolution is correct, then naturally occurring chemicals have been taken into account already by our bodies because they occur in nature. Synthetic chemicals, in general, may not necessarily have been taken into account by our bodies.
Concerning the OP, I will post a detailed response in favor of organic food but not right now.
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The reason why people starve are organizational, it is not becouse we can't produce enough.
There is definitely good reason to promote organic meat, even if mostly to give better conditions of living for farm animals.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
my girlfriend's a tree 
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Gene splicing kicks ass.
normal plant+size+growth rate+health value+insect repellant-water need = win
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It's not that simple though. For example, the baltic sea is dying rapidly at the moment due to the excess amount of fertilizeres used by the surrounding countries.
Pesticides may sound good in theory, and well tbh I doubt we would be able to make do without them but we need to rememeber catastrophes such as DDT, freons etc. History has shown that whenever we start using a new chemical (for any reason) on an industrial scale there is a very real chance of disaster.
The only thing we can do to keep the number of such events down is to try to limit the amount of chemicals we use as much as possible. Obviously we can't just stop using fertilizers, pesticides etc, the amount of food needed to feed the current population is way too large. But the concept of organic food is more about limiting their use.
Finally on genitically modified crops (and animals): Great concept in theory and I muct say that I find EU's take on them stupid but we need to be very cautious.
History has shown again and again our utter inability to actually forsee the effects various changes we make on an eco system will have on that eco system.
The cane toads that were brought to australia is a lovely example imo. (Even if it had nothing to do with GM per se) The point stands, if we change a plant and we do that on a scale large enough to matter we simply can't tell what the consequences will be.
And that is enough incentive to move slowly imo. We obviously can't just _not_ use this technology but if we move slowly enough then perhaps we just might avoid the worst disasters.
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i agree 100%, gm foods ftw
theres nothing wrong with non-natural foods, and its more efficient to grow gm. im sick of people (usually old people or conservative and retarded younger people) bitching about gm food too.
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On April 16 2009 16:56 a-game wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2009 15:56 Zzoram wrote:On April 16 2009 15:54 a-game wrote:On April 16 2009 15:38 ahrara_ wrote:
Do people honestly believe that because it's natural it's better for you? Are that fucking stupid? huh? of course natural food is better for you. i'm going to just assume that you didn't intend to word it this way... A misconception. Natural doesn't always mean better. It does when you're talking about eating fruit versus eating fruit juice candy, but organic is not better than conventional agriculture. i think i just misinterpreted what he was saying, i don't disagree with anything you just said. >> also aharara you have serious anger management issues haha
this is not at all untrue
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how would you guys possibly know if there is "nothing wrong with gm foods" rofl
wait 20 years, then we MIGHT know
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United States22883 Posts
I'm actually going to agree with fight_or_flight here, at least on the first part. The studies aren't very good either way, but there are benefits to GM foods, as well as consequences. It's a consumer choice anyways. There are pretty good reasons to by local though, instead of from megafarms in Nebraska.
What is ridiculous is Zambia turning down GM wheat when its people are starving during a drought, because of coercion by Greenpeace.
On April 16 2009 18:53 Polis wrote:
The reason why people starve are organizational, it is not becouse we can't produce enough.
There is definitely good reason to promote organic meat, even if mostly to give better conditions of living for farm animals.
Another great post.
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On April 16 2009 19:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:my girlfriend's a tree
sounds inconvenient at best
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Penn & Teller have a great episode of Bull Shit on this exact topic, the episode is called "Eat This!" or something similar.
I think most the concern of gm foods is due to
On April 17 2009 08:28 travis wrote:
how would you guys possibly know if there is "nothing wrong with gm foods" rofl
wait 20 years, then we MIGHT know
that kind of irrational fear. 
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i actually try to go to whole foods whenever I can but it's mostly for the meat and not fruits/vegetables.
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I sometimes buy organic because it actually does taste better. Companies that mass distribute produce target genes that are aesthetically pleasing, but not necessarily better tasting. That's why if you go buy produce at a major super market chain, all the fruits/veggies are huge, shiny, perfectly smooth, etc. Also, ironically enough, there's a couple local markets here (in California) that sell organic produce cheaper than super market non-organic produce because there is a large green movement around here. The local community can transport a lot cheaper than large supermarkets, so the produce is cheaper. But of course this is only for produce that is in season. Point acknowledged that off season produce is super expensive at these same places.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 17 2009 10:15 H wrote:sounds inconvenient at best
no its good she doesnt talk and she is always there when i need her
i get mad splinters in my dick though
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On April 16 2009 15:38 ahrara_ wrote:
angry rant ahead
Buying organic food. Or more specifically, why the fuck?
It costs more, proportions are smaller, and if anything, the quality is lower. Pesticides blah blah blah. You know what else runs the risk of giving you x disease? Breathing.
On the economic level, organic foods make even less sense. Why would any government (THE EU) adopt a policy that abolishes one of the most successful advances in agricultural technology of the century?
Of course there will be unforeseen consequences to widespread GM crops. But refusing to partake in something advantageous because something bad *might* happen has got to be the most fucking retarded thing I've ever fucking heard I mean listen to yourself are you stupid?. If you know that taking a walk in the park will make you feel better, but that there is a chance you will be mugged, raped, or killed, do you absolutely refuse to ever take a walk in the park?
Anyway, what the fuck is with the cult of "all-natural"? Do people honestly believe that because it's natural it's better for you? Are that fucking stupid?
What these fucks seem to forget is that because of their rabid, incessant, and irrational fear of anything "artificial", millions of people starve. GM crops in general can increase crop yields by about 10%. That doesn't sound much until you realize that food is so inelastic a product that even a small bump in supply can halve its price. For about a billion people, that could as much as double their disposable income. That's a chance of solving malnutrition for 850 million people in the world. But no. People would rather go to the farmer's market and feel all good about themselves because they're helping mother gaia.
Selfish, ignorant, fucks. Get fucked and die.
/rant
You know that you can make this argument for smoking too right
Also, if you're going to bash people for not presenting a "peer reviewed meta-study indicating a significant impact on health" please give some more evidence for your views rather than citing a number with no evidence and calling people idiots for not wanting to consume foods produced through the use of various genetic and agricultural advances?
However, if you want to just continue cursing and calling people stupid, do so without invoking the specter of "evidence" and we're fine, that way both sides can just call each other idiots without worrying about it.
Yea I'm sure Somalia is gonna take all that extra food we could produce using GM shit instead of just continuing with their current practices (aka completely fucking the common people). As stated before, the problem is usually organizational or caused by the people themselves (think rebels etc. jacking all the aid in a bevy of African countries throughout the 90s up to today).
Your viewpoint is very limited.
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Actually, instead of posting a detailed response, I think I'm simply going to post articles in this blog whenever I find health/food related articles that are relevant, similar to my random articles blog. My intent will not to necessarily prove that any specific non-organic food is bad (or prove anything), but rather, (1) to not trust anyone about what you put in your body because it may or may not be harmful, and (2) to show that we simply don't understand the implications of a lot of the methods and processes employed. (hope you don't mind ahara...the conversations here will probably die down after a week or so)
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Germany is banning the use of a genetically modified corn because they say it is damaging to the environment.
Germany Bans Cultivation of GM Corn
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Germany has banned the cultivation of GM corn, claiming that MON 810 is dangerous for the environment. But that argument might not stand up in court and Berlin could face fines totalling millions of euros if American multinational Monsanto decides to challenge the prohibition on its seed.
The sowing season may be just around the corner, but this year German farmers will not be planting gentically modified crops: German Agriculture Minister Ilse Aigner announced Tuesday she was banning the cultivation of GM corn in Germany.
Greenpeace activists take a sample from a Monsanto test site near Borken in North Rhine-Westphalia: The GM crop MON 810 has been banned in Germany.
DPA
Greenpeace activists take a sample from a Monsanto test site near Borken in North Rhine-Westphalia: The GM crop MON 810 has been banned in Germany.
Under the new regulations, the cultivation of MON 810, a GM corn produced by the American biotech giant Monsanto, will be prohibited in Germany, as will the sale of its seed. Aigner told reporters Tuesday she had legitimate reasons to believe that MON 810 posed "a danger to the environment," a position which she said the Environment Ministry also supported. In taking the step, Aigner is taking advantage of a clause in EU law which allows individual countries to impose such bans.
"Contrary to assertions stating otherwise, my decision is not politically motivated," Aigner said, referring to reports that she had come under pressure to impose a ban from within her party, the conservative Bavaria-based Christian Social Union. She stressed that the ban should be understood as an "individual case" and not as a statement of principle regarding future policy relating to genetic engineering.
PHOTO GALLERY: GERMANY'S GM BATTLE
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Click on a picture to launch the image gallery (5 Photos)
Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth Germany (BUND) both welcomed the ban. Greenpeace's genetic engineering expert, Stephanie Töwe, said the decision was long overdue, explaining that numerous scientific studies demonstrated that GM corn was a danger to the environment.
However the ban could prove costly for the German government. Experts in Aigner's ministry recently told SPIEGEL that it will be hard to prove conclusively that MON 810 damages the environment, which could enable Monsanto to win a court case opposing the ban and potentially expose the government to €6-7 million ($7.9-9.2 million) in damages.
RELATED SPIEGEL ONLINE LINKS
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Genetically Modified Corn: German Lawmakers Mull a Frankenfood Ban (04/10/2009)
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Fighting in the Field: Monsanto's Uphill Battle in Germany (03/05/2009)
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Photo Gallery: Germany's GM Battle
Monsanto said Tuesday that it would look into the question of whether it would take legal proceedings as quickly as possible. Andreas Thierfelder, spokesman for Monsanto Germany, said the matter was very urgent as the planting season was just about to start.
Aigner has recently come under pressure from Bavaria to ban GM corn. Bavaria's Environment Minister Markus Söder wants to turn Germany into a "GM food-free zone." Environmental groups have long called for a ban on GM crops in Germany, arguing that they pose a danger to plants and animals.
However, supporters of genetic engineering argue that a ban could prompt research companies and institutes to pull up stakes and leave Germany. Wolfgang Herrmann, president of Munich's Technical University, has said that a prohibition risks precipitating "an exodus of researchers."
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The issue has exposed a split between Bavaria's CSU and its larger sister party, Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union. Katherina Reiche, deputy chairwoman of the CDU/CSU's parliamentary group, has complained of the "CSU's irresponsible, cheap propaganda," claiming that it could harm German industry. She argued that anti-GM sentiment was one reason a subsidiary of the German chemical giant Bayer decided to moved its facilities for genetic engineering from Potsdam, near Berlin, to Belgium.
MON 810 was approved for cultivation in Europe by the European Union in 1998 and is currently the only GM crop which can be grown in Germany. The plant produces a toxin to fight off a certain pest, the voracious larvae of the corn borer moth. The crop was due to be planted this year on a total area of around 3,600 hectares (8,896 acres) in Germany. The cultivation of MON 810 is already banned in five other EU member states, namely Austria, Hungary, Greece, France and Luxembourg.
dgs
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,618913,00.html
this is ridiculous...how can Germany be sued for not buying a corporation's seeds?
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This is all about how monsanto's corn feed for pigs has changed their DNA structure so they now carry the monsanto corn gene. As a result pig farmers now have to pay a license fee for each pig that carries their genes.
Farmers also found that when feeding their pigs corn they would have all sorts of health problems including false pregnancies, spontaneous abortions and all sorts of things. At the end of part 4 into part 5 there is a pig farmer who discovered this when he stopped feeding his pigs this stuff the problems went away
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ouf_gmA5o
If They claim they want a license from farmers who's pigs ate their feed, what happens to us if we eat something with that gene/dna in it? Do we need to pay a license fee as well?
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More related corruption...brought to you by Aljazeera.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I get a sense of patenting and controlling our food supply, in addition to poisoning us. Anyone remember that company that knowingly shipped vaccines contaminated with aids?
here it is...I remember reading about it
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000647_Bayer_vaccines_HIV.html
these companies don't care about your health. In fact they release hundreds millions of pounds of pharmaceutical waste into our drinking water, openly.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090419/ap_on_re_us/pharmawater_factories
and the government doesn't do anything about it. Why should I trust them with my food?
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On April 17 2009 10:41 Trumpet wrote:Penn & Teller have a great episode of Bull Shit on this exact topic, the episode is called "Eat This!" or something similar. I think most the concern of gm foods is due to Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 08:28 travis wrote:
how would you guys possibly know if there is "nothing wrong with gm foods" rofl
wait 20 years, then we MIGHT know that kind of irrational fear.
Yes, because it's real irrational to think that tinkering with the plants might be bad and result in some unfound disease down the road since there's been minimal studies done to it. Cuz, you know, the government has never let a product out that wasn't full researched.
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FuDDx
United States5018 Posts
Hey to each his own what pisses me off is people who judge people over things that have nothing to do with them.If someone wants to buy organic food at a higher price fine.Its not like they are making you buy it.
Its when they get all high and mighty and think they are the best humans possible that pisses me off kinda like your opening statements.
"I am so much better than you because I've been studying and reading peer-reviewed studies, obviously I know more, pay attention more, and am in general smarter than you."
edit= Piss off!!!wanker edit=
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On April 16 2009 19:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:my girlfriend's a tree
Mary Jane ;DDD!!
...wait, WHAT? She cheated on me ;_;
EDIT: and on you too! XD
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EPT
