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Hi Tl.net!
I have been trying to figure out what is wrong with my play lately... I mean.. I make noobs feel like I am an A+ Player and usually get complimented a lot saying I have a shot at being top foreigner etc... but in the other hand when I play against someone my caliber.. I usually lose.. regardless of the situation, let it be cw, friendly match, etc.
My apm keeps increasing I used to average 220 Apm and about 180-200 eapm. My last games I been about 260-280 almost 300 :O and eapm of 220 or something crazy like that.
Also my knowledge about the game keeps increasing.
I seriously want to know wtf is wrong with me and what keeps me apart from good players if I have all the things I think I need..
For reference, I know for a fact these are my flaws:
- Emo Player
- Sore Loser
- Cannot mass game for shit.. I usually have to take long breaks after just one game 
- Always! Always! try to do cute shit and over extend myself.
- Everytime I get a lead I get super greedy and never finish the game when Im supposed to and sometimes I lose for being a fagget
I wont post reps since alot of people dont even dl em or whatever.. but if any of you that reads this and has played with me or once you were in this position and overcame it and became a strong player, what were some of things u had to overcome
=(
 
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stop letting emotions get in the way, mass game, stop doing cute shit? i mean, what else can we say D:
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Something else I have noticed is that when I have people watching me I play better...
I have never been to a LAN but I think if I had tons of people obsing me I think I could play more serious I dunno
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I'm also a very emotional player... When I lose to stupid shit I get really angry and quit BW. I wish I could be jedi and not give a fuck... there really is no way to get over it, just tell yourself its just a game or just go make an alternate account and bash D noobs like i do
I know, its pathetic
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Braavos36375 Posts
You don't have a shot at being a top player because a large percentage of being the best is how hard you can work. Since you seem to be just playing casually and unable to dedicate yourself to it, you are just like the many thousands of other players who "could be a top foreigner" because of their "potential" but never realize it.
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On December 29 2008 17:02 DanceCommander wrote:
I'm also a very emotional player... When I lose to stupid shit I get really angry and quit BW. I wish I could be jedi and not give a fuck... there really is no way to get over it, just tell yourself its just a game or just go make an alternate account and bash D noobs like i do
I know, its pathetic
dude this is exactly what I DO LOL!
I love clearing my stats and bashing D noobs it makes me feel so goood =( its kinda sad
On December 29 2008 17:02 Hot_Bid wrote:
You don't have a shot at being a top player because a large percentage of being the best is how hard you can work. Since you seem to be just playing casually and unable to dedicate yourself to it, you are just like the many thousands of other players who "could be a top foreigner" because of their "potential" but never realize it.
I guess this summarizes it pretty much, cuz I guess a lot of the peeps I know have a huge potential of being the best as well but they dont care and dont try
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BASICS BASICS BASICS... just like amateurs when they wanna become progamers, they practice BASICS!!!...
micro , macro, BOs... the rest comes with practice...
edit: get an smurf account on iccup, and dont give a shit about your stats... that helps alot...
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Dude one time I played you about a year and 3-4 months ago on hamachi. Before the game, you were saying how bad you were going to beat me and that you ruled. We played on Peaks of Baekdu, and I made my 3rd at the expo below your main (you were 12 o'clock) and slow dropped lurks into your main. My nat/main were defended when you tried to counter, and you used all your scans. You flipped out, said i sucked at starcraft, and we never played again. That was my experience 
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That sounds like a good idea...
as stupid as this may sound... i have never had a smurf account
starting tomorrow I will start a smurf account and see if I feel the improvement with the dont give a shit losses... hopefully!
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On December 29 2008 17:12 Quesadilla wrote:Dude one time I played you about a year and 3-4 months ago on hamachi. Before the game, you were saying how bad you were going to beat me and that you ruled. We played on Peaks of Baekdu, and I made my 3rd at the expo below your main (you were 12 o'clock) and slow dropped lurks into your main. My nat/main were defended when you tried to counter, and you used all your scans. You flipped out, said i sucked at starcraft, and we never played again. That was my experience
lol dude... I always say dumb shit but its stupid humour when I talk about rape before games, etc...
but I dont remember that game, I was never good at peaks but I bet I can rape u ez now LOL jk
wanna play a bo3 for money? jk
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the smurf acc won't do all the work by itself... you shud practice hard anyway...
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Don't gg when you lose. That usually helps.
Another thing is to leave early. I want to kill a man when I see other people raping my base.
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here is an idea grow some ballz n mass game like ya had a pair
+ Show Spoiler + i can't mass game either
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you sound like a huge fag from what ques said..
stop being like that to people and learn how to mass games
mass gaming is really a skill in its own and if you can't develop it you will never be great.
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I make noobs feel like I am an A+ Player and usually get complimented a lot saying I have a shot at being top foreigner etc
anyone in the C ranks bashing D level players will get the same reaction.
My apm keeps increasing I used to average 220 Apm and about 180-200 eapm. My last games I been about 260-280 almost 300 :O and eapm of 220 or something crazy like that.
Also my knowledge about the game keeps increasing.
what does APM have to do with anything? KwarK for example is sub 100 APM player and is about B+ skill. if you actually have that much APM, then you have some other serious flaws if you aren't a really good player.
I seriously want to know wtf is wrong with me and what keeps me apart from good players if I have all the things I think I need..
how do you know you have all the things you need? because D players say you should be a top foreigner? because you have high apm? clearly there is a huge gap you aren't seeing.
For reference, I know for a fact these are my flaws:
- Emo Player
- Sore Loser
- Cannot mass game for shit.. I usually have to take long breaks after just one game
- Always! Always! try to do cute shit and over extend myself.
- Everytime I get a lead I get super greedy and never finish the game when Im supposed to and sometimes I lose for being a fagget
those are flaws but I bet there are others you are overlooking that are MUCH more important to you actually getting better.
I wont post reps since alot of people dont even dl em or whatever..
look at your own replays to see what you're doing wrong. if your apm is 220+ and you're still struggling at C level then you should have some pretty obvious flaws. watching your replays will help you pinpoint them. if you can't do that, ask people for help, aka post your replays. but tbh if you can't see your own flaws from your replays I think you should take a step back and try to look at your play more objectively, because your judgment of your own skill might be flawed.
*I'm not intending this to be bad manner or anything, but it's a serious response.
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If you can't mass game, then your knowledge isn't increasing enough. You're not going against enough scenarios to know the perfect reaction to everything, something that higher level players have done.
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On December 29 2008 16:58 InfeSteD wrote:Something else I have noticed is that when I have people watching me I play better... I have never been to a LAN but I think if I had tons of people obsing me I think I could play more serious I dunno
okay, seriously, wtf is up with this image?
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On December 29 2008 17:14 InfeSteD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 17:12 Quesadilla wrote:Dude one time I played you about a year and 3-4 months ago on hamachi. Before the game, you were saying how bad you were going to beat me and that you ruled. We played on Peaks of Baekdu, and I made my 3rd at the expo below your main (you were 12 o'clock) and slow dropped lurks into your main. My nat/main were defended when you tried to counter, and you used all your scans. You flipped out, said i sucked at starcraft, and we never played again. That was my experience lol dude... I always say dumb shit but its stupid humour when I talk about rape before games, etc... but I dont remember that game, I was never good at peaks but I bet I can rape u ez now LOL jk wanna play a bo3 for money? jk
I can vouch that he does always say this shit but he's actually quite manner 
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Well, if it obviously isn't apm setting you aside, you are just a poor decision maker and can't understand the flow of the game as well as semipros.
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I think this is the point where you find that you've gotten your mechanics right, your appropriate actions and you've obtained a certain level of game sense. Its time to bring that game sense further.
Maybe you should talk to someone really good like Nony as to how to bring yourself further. I think one of the really huge reasons why Koreans get so good and why us Foreigners are usually stuck down here is because of the kind of dedicated coaches that they get. So maybe if you find yourself a good mentor.. who knows? Maybe WCG 2011 Infested vs Stork or smth.
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Please post reps....it would really clear up alot. Like one of each matchup would be good.
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Josh Waitzkin (a chess grandmaster and Tai Chi professional) talks about "investment in loss" in The Art of Learning, which is a really good read. Basically, if your goal is to get really good, it helps to realize that losing is actually very helpful. While the goal of each individual game you play should be to win, your overall goal is to get better, and losing to a strong player is often more helpful than winning for improving your play. Once I realized that, it really helped me mass games without too much frustration from a streak of losses.
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On December 29 2008 17:02 DanceCommander wrote:
I'm also a very emotional player... When I lose to stupid shit I get really angry and quit BW. I wish I could be jedi and not give a fuck... there really is no way to get over it, just tell yourself its just a game or just go make an alternate account and bash D noobs like i do
I know, its pathetic
Not to derail, but thats really annoying I just started playing SC again a week or two ago, and I'm probably better than I've ever been (aka, I'm D level instead of D-.. maybe. lol), and maybe 25-50% of the players I find myself up against are 250+APM people who just toy with me in a game I made with D/D- in the title. It can make gaming a bit discouraging
Then again its probably my fault that I keep playing in Korean time so half of my losses are to them.
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I try to play in korean time as much as possible but I keep getting matched up against foreigners
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Id say read Artosis' thing about the difference between foreigners and pros. From my experience of playing you, I have seen random strategy after random strategy emphasizing micro over macro to gain an advantage. If you play whatever pops into your head you will usually confuse the shit out of lower players, and maybe your hand speed and apm will increase, however your mechanics will never improve.
If you have never practiced basic play, or rarely do, then you will have trouble in a game where your opponent isn't psyched out by pew pew mass wraiths, 3 fact all-in, etc...
edit:
It also occurred to me that you off-race way to much.
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typical fag with bad attitude
will keep getting raped
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you gotta stop noobbashing, not only will they suck up to you, (newsflash: noobs will always think you are really good when you rape them because it makes them feel better) but they will have bad enough timing that they make you get away with things you shouldn't, thus you get raped when you face someone better as you have made a flawed strategy part of your standard play. It sounds to me like you wont stop noobbashing even though you know thats whats needed, you know to get better you have to start losing but you would prefer a way to get good while beating up D+/C- players. It's like getting good beating the computer and won't happen.
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Taking me as an example since I'm a pretty good player I'd say. I can easily hit B+ with pure mechanics but what I'm lacking is game intelligence. Start to think more and decrease your apm. They will increase automatically with your thinking!
If there's certain things you are missing all the time, take a post it and put it on your monitor or something. When you think about all the things you need to do (because mistakes in starcraft are mostly forgetting things) you will play a lot better and you will automatically get faster.
Since you don't play much, you lack experience / routine. Thats what keeps you from getting better.
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can someone tell me if the TS is being sarcastic or am going insane. The posts starting from number 2 and on don't match up to what the question is being asked.
edit: okay i think i sort of get what the ts is saying. i just got up a moment ago and i'm dizzy and for some reason i thought the ts was bragging and then everyone was actually offering serious advice and i think i'm literally going batshit crazy.
anyway, post up some replays. maybe a few for better understanding.
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You need more apm, because we all know: the higher the apm the better the player
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On December 29 2008 17:07 InfeSteD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 17:02 DanceCommander wrote:
I'm also a very emotional player... When I lose to stupid shit I get really angry and quit BW. I wish I could be jedi and not give a fuck... there really is no way to get over it, just tell yourself its just a game or just go make an alternate account and bash D noobs like i do
I know, its pathetic dude this is exactly what I DO LOL! I love clearing my stats and bashing D noobs it makes me feel so goood =( its kinda sad
IMO this is really bad. The more of your gaming time you waste dicking around with people significantly below your level, the sloppier you will become. Bad players make bad decisions, so you get overly used to the idea of exploiting the bad habits of others and your sense of timing gets thrown way off.
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Put aside the Ma Jae Yoon Wannabe. Become who you were born to be.
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sounds like you should stop being immature and keep ur insults to urself after losing games. I found that if i used that anger to keep rematching i would eventually overcome w/e it was that was causing me to lose.
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Germany2762 Posts
i wouldn't take apm into consideration here... i have constantly 160-180 apm. that means i have a lot more than most D players but i don't reach D+ T_T
so i guess your problem is not your apm but maybe a mix of greedyness and underastimation of other players.
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Thank you guys for all the good advice and to the people saying shit like stop being immature after losses and insults? wtf are you guys talking about ? where does it say I insult and shit like that? I just mess around before games not after losing :S
like ShallOw[Bay] said, its before the games and Im just joking around Im really manner..
anyways, it has come to me that the biggest problem could be noob bashing and clearing my stats instead of keep mass gaming against people my caliber...that will probably get me farther and learn more.. kindof like Jumper]i[/Jumper[Light] , he is B- with like a 40% and Im lets say C- 80%> ... someone said this earlier and it makes a lot of sense. I need to put my fagget emotions aside and play like a man
to Oshi, I only emphasize micro at the beggining of the game to "gain an advantage, then exploit it and turn the game into a rape" (iloveoov style) he is my hero..
I also offrace way too much T_T Im gonna stick with T... is it okay to offrace vs T ? or would u recommend becoming a yumbosung at tvt =)
Last thing, not to disrespect or anything but I never played you, zxk3, etc.. serious.. I would just mess around all the time.. the only time I played for reals was prolly the last games we played because u beat me in Monty or something, then again that is where my biggest problem comes from..
Something else that just came to my mind... thx to this comment
On December 29 2008 17:55 nevake wrote:
If you can't mass game, then your knowledge isn't increasing enough. You're not going against enough scenarios to know the perfect reaction to everything, something that higher level players have done.
I know I have a lot of knowledge about the game, like really really deep.. I just cant put it to play because my apm doesnt show in my mechanics.. Im throwing away my actions in less important things such as microing vultures NaDa style and such.. I have noticed I play better against Koreans than foreigners a lot of times.. is it because a lot of foreigners dont follow the proscene and their strategys and game flow is different from what Im expecting it to be? after watching proscene etc?
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@OP: if you find the cure to what you described, please PM me cause i got the same fucking problems
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On December 30 2008 02:34 vhallee wrote:@OP: if you find the cure to what you described, please PM me cause i got the same fucking problems
I will for sure... i am going to give it a one month trial.. smurfing on iccup without caring about stats and trying to lower my apm and focus more on strat and game sense and see if it gets better
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On December 29 2008 19:27 skyglow1 wrote:I try to play in korean time as much as possible but I keep getting matched up against foreigners
i have the same problem... i can beat B koreans, but i cant beat C foreigners rofl...
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Mexico1178 Posts
On December 30 2008 02:19 InfeSteD wrote:
Last thing, not to disrespect or anything but I never played you, zxk3, etc.. serious.. I would just mess around all the time.. the only time I played for reals was prolly the last games we played because u beat me in Monty or something, then again that is where my biggest problem comes from..
That wasnt called rly, you lost many points in my GM chart T-T, hopefully you can improve but seriously think better what are u doing, gl eddie (Hope we can play some time to see how serious can you play against me now)
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saying you don't play a game "seriously" is the biggest bullshit copout you can have. you play games to win them... nobody goes into a game saying "FUCK IM PLANNING ON LOSING THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE" ... if you're not killing your command center at the start, you're playing to win it.
the "I didn't play seriously" excuse is just a cover up for: I tried to do some cute shit to beat you so I could look really cool but I fucked up so I blamed the loss on not playing seriously.
and also I'll repeat: how do you know you have a "really really good understanding of the game". I "think" I know a lot about BW, but when I actually have talked to people like Day[9] or SchiSm in real life about BW, I feel like my knowledge is 1/100th of theirs. I think you're valuing your game knowledge way too much and basically making it out to seem like you're just a step away from being a top level foreigner.
take a step back and look at your play more realistically, realize that you have some big flaws, and start training.
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actually - after re-reading your op post... are you TerranDynamics on ICCUP? O_O:
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On December 29 2008 16:54 InfeSteD wrote:- Everytime I get a lead I get super greedy and never finish the game when Im supposed to and sometimes I lose for being a fagget
I do this a ton myself. Earlier today I had a PvP literally game over and I threw it away for no reason. Maybe my subconscious was trying to escape and make me lose to punish me.
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On December 30 2008 13:41 Xeris wrote:
saying you don't play a game "seriously" is the biggest bullshit copout you can have. you play games to win them... nobody goes into a game saying "FUCK IM PLANNING ON LOSING THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE" ... if you're not killing your command center at the start, you're playing to win it.
the "I didn't play seriously" excuse is just a cover up for: I tried to do some cute shit to beat you so I could look really cool but I fucked up so I blamed the loss on not playing seriously.
and also I'll repeat: how do you know you have a "really really good understanding of the game". I "think" I know a lot about BW, but when I actually have talked to people like Day[9] or SchiSm in real life about BW, I feel like my knowledge is 1/100th of theirs. I think you're valuing your game knowledge way too much and basically making it out to seem like you're just a step away from being a top level foreigner.
take a step back and look at your play more realistically, realize that you have some big flaws, and start training.
Of course people always play to win, but they may not be at 100% and know they don't want to play at 100% and therfore do some weird shit and not be serious about it. Sorta like that extra game we played at so cal lan where I did some retarded build and you went scouts lol.
Also, you can try your best 100% with a joke build.
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Edited version : eapm is pure crap and generally who cares about the corrolation between apm and skill.
If you're good go play good players and stop bitching on TL about it
Why are you bitching on TL about this?
Go get better and prove to yourself that you're good instead of making posts about how good you could be to convince yourself that you're good.
This is pretty BM but honnestly, why would you make such a post?..
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uhh for overcoming being an emotional player, i have a few tips
granted i'm a C player, and I still do rage at the game, i have it controlled at least somewhat now.
- being not cheesed helps, because if you lose to cheese, you feel like absolute shit.
- but what you can do is just ignore everything except your mistake and forget about the game, regardless of how perfectly you played leading up to the mistake. for example, i lost today a 3 hatch hydra break in. so i just highlight "scouting" in the next part of my game, and pay more attention to that aspect.
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On December 31 2008 11:55 VyzhiS wrote:
Edited version : eapm is pure crap and generally who cares about the corrolation between apm and skill.
If you're good go play good players and stop bitching on TL about it
Why are you bitching on TL about this?
Go get better and prove to yourself that you're good instead of making posts about how good you could be to convince yourself that you're good.
This is pretty BM but honnestly, why would you make such a post?..
eAPM is not perfect but it sure as hell is a better indicator of multitasking ability than APM.
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The point is though, if you have 200 eapm, you SHOULD be good - if you have 200+ eapm and you still aren't good, then there is some SERIOUS issues, or you just plain suck and use your APM retardedly.
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On December 30 2008 16:19 Xeris wrote:
actually - after re-reading your op post... are you TerranDynamics on ICCUP? O_O:
Im not TerranDynamics (Why though?).. I think I played him a week ago and beat him on RHIII ... he wasnt bm O_O (I dunno if that's what you meant)
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On December 30 2008 18:29 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 13:41 Xeris wrote:
saying you don't play a game "seriously" is the biggest bullshit copout you can have. you play games to win them... nobody goes into a game saying "FUCK IM PLANNING ON LOSING THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE" ... if you're not killing your command center at the start, you're playing to win it.
the "I didn't play seriously" excuse is just a cover up for: I tried to do some cute shit to beat you so I could look really cool but I fucked up so I blamed the loss on not playing seriously.
and also I'll repeat: how do you know you have a "really really good understanding of the game". I "think" I know a lot about BW, but when I actually have talked to people like Day[9] or SchiSm in real life about BW, I feel like my knowledge is 1/100th of theirs. I think you're valuing your game knowledge way too much and basically making it out to seem like you're just a step away from being a top level foreigner.
take a step back and look at your play more realistically, realize that you have some big flaws, and start training. Of course people always play to win, but they may not be at 100% and know they don't want to play at 100% and therfore do some weird shit and not be serious about it. Sorta like that extra game we played at so cal lan where I did some retarded build and you went scouts lol. Also, you can try your best 100% with a joke build.
+1
On December 30 2008 17:23 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 16:54 InfeSteD wrote:- Everytime I get a lead I get super greedy and never finish the game when Im supposed to and sometimes I lose for being a fagget I do this a ton myself. Earlier today I had a PvP literally game over and I threw it away for no reason. Maybe my subconscious was trying to escape and make me lose to punish me.
It is true, I mean Progamers do it like for instance " Flash" everybody complains about him doing that kind of stuff... why wouldnt a normal mortal like us do it too?
On December 31 2008 11:55 VyzhiS wrote:
Edited version : eapm is pure crap and generally who cares about the corrolation between apm and skill.
If you're good go play good players and stop bitching on TL about it
Why are you bitching on TL about this?
Go get better and prove to yourself that you're good instead of making posts about how good you could be to convince yourself that you're good.
This is pretty BM but honnestly, why would you make such a post?..
because it has fuckin helped me... TL.net helps u a lot sometimes... like I made a smurf account and have been following all the advices from everyone without takin it to the ass eve if they give me BM advice etc + Show Spoiler +Im 20-1 so far but my biggest challenge will be against players my caliber, but I feel more calmed when playing and Im trying to understand the game better rather than spamming actions without knowin wtf im doing etc
Thanks every1
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On December 30 2008 08:32 zXk3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2008 02:19 InfeSteD wrote:
Last thing, not to disrespect or anything but I never played you, zxk3, etc.. serious.. I would just mess around all the time.. the only time I played for reals was prolly the last games we played because u beat me in Monty or something, then again that is where my biggest problem comes from..
That wasnt called rly, you lost many points in my GM chart T-T, hopefully you can improve but seriously think better what are u doing, gl eddie (Hope we can play some time to see how serious can you play against me now)
sabes que es cierto.. soy mamon nomas y no soy bm
es como cuando el inControl me juega a mi.. el no me juega encerio nunk y todavia me ownea bien feo y si me lo dijera no me importaria nomas es la neta.. eso no tiene nada q ver -_-'
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no I wasn't saying he was BM, but I beat him twice and he made some lame excuses each time rather than just saying GG
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On January 01 2009 03:12 Xeris wrote:
no I wasn't saying he was BM, but I beat him twice and he made some lame excuses each time rather than just saying GG
This is how our game went...
88)iNfeSteD joins TerranDynamicS game..
TTerranDynamicS: hiyo, I remember you I beat you blah blah blah
P88)iNfeSteD: ??? whats ur aka.. who r u?
Game starts and he scouts me researching goon range.. when i kill his scouting scv I proceed to Anytime's build (citadel, templar, robotics) I expand really far away in the map while harassing and techin to arbiters after doing damage etc...
He had good macro but I end up winning the game due to arbiters and constant attacks
Before he leaves the game he dropped like 3 lines before he actually "gg'ed" (I guess at least he gged me) but he said that I caught him off guard with the tech and my far expansion etc..
So I imagined you would say something like that about him.. whats his highest rank btw? do u know him?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9770/signaturepr0.jpg)
