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Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States2961 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-28 19:51:04
July 28 2008 19:48 GMT
#1
This is just a personal rant, I just needed to type it out somewhere.

I just finished reading the live report of Jaedong vs ForGG in the MSL finals. I'm gonna spoiler the entire rest of the blog because it contains results of that and other/older matches recently in starcraft progaming.

+ Show Spoiler +
I feel like crying, I dunno. As a zerg player, the proleague, MSL, and OSL to some extent have been quite disapointing. I'm aware that the maps are giving zerg hell vs terran, while being pretty nice if not generous to them on zvp. zvp though I feel is a matchup most balanced by the players in game, and (with exceptions) is the non-mirror matchup least balanced by the map. To give zerg an easy time vs protoss though doesn't result in the kind of games I want to see. It doesn't prevent amazing or great games, but there's something lacking when you see protoss sweating bullets, and zerg sitting there with a smile on his face the whole game.

July winning the OSL was fucking amazing, but it still felt a bit hollow. BeSt definitely deserved to be in the finals, but I don't know about July. July fucking raped a bunch of protoss, and them overwhelmed BeSt with experience basically. It wasn't quite the epic showdown of two titans as I had hoped for in a finals with July.

Much's pylon heart vs Firebathero put a smile on my face, but it still didn't make up for the fact that Savior was still losing. Outside of that, and July winning the OSL, there just wasn't much this season that uplifted me.

Jaedong gets bulldozed by ForGG, and while ForGG definitely earned that win, I feel like it was just another Savior vs Bisu, Stork vs Flash, Draco vs Iefnaij, where the loser just did the same stupid thing every game just to get countered perfectly each game, just apparently real 1 dimensional thinking going on in the loser's mind.

Jaedong was great when he first appeared. His zvz was and still is fucking incredible. Beating Stork was I guess a nice stepping stone for him, but wasn't much of an accomplishment given Stork's pvz. Flash comes out of no where it seems, and is a fucking titan. Kid plays just PERFECTLY, this'll be a great match I'm thinking, Jaedong vs Flash. Then Flash walks over Jaedong when it matters. Even after Jaedong's big wins, his absolute rape of Bisu on Blue Storm, I get the feeling that he's lazy, he drops games vs the little guys, like vs Much on Demon's Forest, vs Back-who, etc. Even his wins though feel kind of hallow, Bisu cannot said to be in top form during his rapes by Jaedong, it's not like Jaedong was playing vs the Bisu who 3-0'd Savior. Then comes this season, and Jaedong kinda looks in shape, kinda not, and noobs his way out of the OSL, bam. Then, Flash gets noob'd out of the OSL, wtf? So yeah, Best looked a fucking monster, and July is July, but the finals wasn't Jaedong vs Flash, and that's what's wrong with it, even if it July, even if it was July WINNING.

I was never a Savior fan during Savior's Reign, his Prime, his Domination. Savior was just, zerggod. I could sleep well knowing a zerg would win a game, every day. I never really thought much of Savior, he was just, Savior. As he started to lose more and more, I started caring. Part of me wishes now that he would pull a Nal_rA and just vanish so I wouldn't have to read how Firebathero, or some other noob raped him this time. Even if the guys he's playing aren't "noob", he doesn't deserve to have to play them, let alone lose to them, he's fucking Savior, and they aren't, not even close.

Savior and Jaedong are like the same player to me. Both disapoint me. Savior's problem is that he isn't winning like Jaedong, and Jaedong's problem is that he isn't Savior. When Jaedong wins it's ridiculous, he might as well be the Maestro. Just perfect wtfhackyawnrape every time. Then he loses, and he looks like Saviorslumpshit. I want to like Jaedong simply because he's a fucking good zerg, but I hate him for being so goddamn inconsistent. Atleast I know Savior is going to lose every game he plays.

I kind of liked Mind, even though I didn't follow him much, and I'm not terran, and he's not Nada. When I watched Flash vs Mind on Othello, I was fucking blown away. Flash played so perfectly it made perfection itself look like garbage, he just outclassed perfection. I kind of became a Flash fan, despite him raping Jaedong and Stork who I liked for his pvp; Jaedong deserved to lose anyway since he was playing like Saviorslumpshit. I like Luxury, I really respect zergs who have great zvz, and he does. I don't care who outplayed who, Luxury didn't deserve to beat Flash. That wasn't the Flash I know playing. That was like, SaviorslumpshitFlash.

I really enjoy kt.mgw)Hyuk. He's hillarious to watch. He reminds me of like a July without any control; in after oxymoron. Hyuk is just SO reckless it's ridiculous, he does things with units I didn't think anybody would even consider, because it's fucking retarded. He does this shit so many times in one game that it actually works out of 39834 tries. He just throws away his units like it's nothing lol, and he has such fucking GOOD macro that he still has units afterwords to suicide elsewhere. I wish he'd do better in proleague so I could see him more though. He's the kind of player imo who can break the imbalanced maps by playing so weird and hyper aggressive. I like and enjoy him a lot. He makes me smile.

I don't like Best. I respect him, he earns his wins, and I respect mirror matchups a lot, and 80%+ winrate pvp is just godly. He just rapes people I like, Stork, Jangbi, Nada, etc, then loses to July. I realize that July is the only zerg I listed which makes all the difference in the world, and July is and has always been and always will be my favourite player of all time, but I don't feel like July really earned his OSL, he just had more experience than every other player there, except maybe Rock, but Rock's experience is just of him sucking for 10 years or something. Best really earned his OSL, but it made me sad because the people I wanted to win lost, even if the guy I wanted the most to win did win his OSL. It's July winning vs everyone else losing, hard to weigh =/

I just can't see July continuing any form of reign, I voted Backho for the OSL Sync One Hit Wonder Award and while I don't take that back, I don't feel like I can really believe July is back when it feels like July could just as easily be a Sync too, even on favouring maps. It seems protoss forgot how to pvz, but terrans relearned how to tvz, just the way how it used to be, with zergs raping protoss, so the terrans not getting raped by protoss, and coming out and raping zerg. Except, there's no Savior to win the OSL anyway.

Terran dominating again makes me sad, because it isn't Nada. With protoss dominating, it atleast means zerg is beating terran. With zerg dominating, great! tvp seems so much more epic when zerg is dominating, I dunno. Everything is ok though if Nada is dominating, because he fucking deserves it.

WHY DID IEFNAIJ WIN FUCK
Iefnaij did not deserve to beat Draco in my eyes. Draco outclasses Iefnaij in pvz, pvt, and imo pvp also, despite the results. It felt like iefnaij and draco did the same stupid thing for the last 3 games, like Draco had a point to prove or something, that he could pull it off. Three games of 2 reaver no shuttle vs 1reaver/shuttle? It didn't work the first two games, WHY try it on the 3rd one, where the map made iefnaij's strategy the LEAST effective? Go ahead and throw away the games which don't matter on maps where Iefnaij gets like auto-win with his reaver build, but why let him do it on the map it shouldn't work on? God.
TSL was just like the korean scene, where like everyone I wanted to win lost, and my one hope for happiness gets thrown away at the finish: "Ok, I'll ignore that everyone else I wanted to win lost, Draco you can do it! wait wat... NO FUCK YOU... FUCKING FUCK SHIT FUCK".

Liquidbet has been sucking. I've been top20 like the entire season, and top 10 most of it, I was even #2 before Draco lost. I get lucky with the bullshit proleague stuff (I hate team vs team battles, I can't judge the teams from a name, most I can do is open the roster up and try and guess if both teams picked their best, which would come out on top, and it doesn't work like that, and I don't know 2v2 to save my life) a lot more than I should, which keeps me high, but outside of like OBVIOUS obvious results (Flash vs anyone, etc) I lose a lot, and sometimes it's the "OBVIOUS obvious ones I end up losing too, like Flash vs ForGGetme. It makes no sense. I hate that I win enough to stay high, but I lose enough that I can't be on top, it's like Savior beating all the amateurs then losing to the noobest of the progamers, why bother going that far? But I'm not going to stop liquibet despite that. I was successful at gosubet at the beginning of the season. I like, got 2k in like a day or two, then somehow blew it all with just bad luck, having placed it in small amounts across a bunch of different matches, some being presumably auto cashes, others being huge gambles, and then worked hard again and got it to 1400 or something, put it all on a game Luxury could not possibly physically lose, which he managed to lose anyway. Fuck gosubet.

bwm has been kind of tense lately, and now it's kind of really quiet, which is worse than when we're all flaming eachother. Mobilizing mappers to try and make TSL2 quality maps has been mostly unproductive. Only Testbug seems to be taking it seriously, which makes sense I guess as he's the best fucking mapper at bwm, and if a foreigner puts a map into TSL2 it'll be him. People are starting to dislike him though, because he's REALLY FUCKING GOOD at remaking maps. He can make a great map from scratch on his own fine, but when he studies a map someone else (or an older one of himself) made, he remakes the map and just perfectly executed the concept, it's ridiculous. He's a fucking brilliant artist, a real genius at mapping, and he's a nice guy too.

I wanted to do those daily-bi-weekly map testing tournaments, and I mentioned those on tl like a month ago, and bwm's just been so slow/finicky/unhelpful, except for Testbug. Except, Testbug has been so focused on perfection, he remade one map three goddamn times along with fairly intensive if basic testing, lol. Everything is just taking forever. Things are kind of tense at my house since I haven't managed to get a job yet, which sometimes results in my internet being pulled out, which could make hosting a tournament difficult anyway =/ Testbug's remaking another map as I speak, and then after I do a quick modification of Sound Barrier, we should be ready for the tournaments, if we get that far =/
Bwm seems to have no ambition anymore, on top of abysmal activity.

Just to reiterate, the map testing tournaments are just to throw out maps to the community, to showcase some of our best modern maps (there are so many amazing maps it's ridiculous, too hard to sort through all of them with the site being so inactive, and with taste/knowledge varying so much between all of us anyway, we need like 20 Testbugs). If a map stands out as being kind of good, we can focus more on it, and then maybe present it as a possible TSL2 candidate.

I finally played enough games to get C on iccup. I was stuck at C- not for lack of skill, but for lack of motivation to play a fucking game. Also, I kept trying to play sc when I wasn't motivated to, which resulted in many retarded losses that if I was in a better mood / had a better mindset I could've won. My team had announced that after the start of this current iccup season, every team member would have 2 weeks to get C+ or they'd be off team. I got C- in like a day or two with that motivation, even if I was still playing slowly and with not an overwhelming but still decent win/loss ratio. Then the team merged with another team, and I dunno why, and we just dropped the rule. And as we did, my motivation dropped too. I went 1-2. One loss was to some korean on [sam] tag, dunno if he's real or smurf, probably smurf. He played very well though, zvz on andromeda. He did some pool first gas build, not sure when he pool'd. I went 12hatch 11pool, his lings got to my nat hatch a second or two before my lings hatched. He hatched at his min only I think. I went all lings with speed first while he went lair first. I thought I could beat him with a superior ling count, but his ling count wasn't bad, he wasn't stupid. Then when I felt I had enough I tried his ramp again, but he had a sunk so I backed off. His spire finished, and I made evo/2spore and took off gas. My spire I think had just started or something. Game went downhill fast. My win was a stupid zvp on python where I raped the protoss, another protoss who tihnks he can take a really late 3rd and still win -_- My other loss was a zvt. He bunk rushed me, and while I prevented a single marine from entering the bunker, I am not July, and lost a lot of drones. I expo'd at another main (python) with my 3rd hatch. I went lurker into hive. I think I could've won, my micro was ok. I just realized I could win too late, and my macro was running behind, because I'd just sit there playing with units, assuming it was the last battle and I'd gg out in just a sec, then I'd either win or come out way on top, and I'd be like fuck, I didn't know I could win, I'd have been macroing if that was the case. So I never had a real army, and just stalled the game with defilers for a while. No amount of brilliant defiler control could change the fact that his army covered like the entire python middle. I don't know if I had a chance to win or not throughout the whole game, but I wish I had atleast tried the whole way through, because now I'll never know if I could've won or not.

I think people above C either winbot, or use Combat-ex's method, because there are like no C games, just D/D+, with the occasional C- or C+ game, or a C game off motw which has high latency that I can't join anyway.

ForGGetme had better not disappear next season. He better be #1 kespa and PR for a month or two atleast. Considering he beat Flash and Jaedong, the guys fighting back and forth for #1 kespa, he fucking better get it.

I doubt anyone will read this whole thing but,
Thanks for reading tl, Much<3


***
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
crabapple
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States397 Posts
July 28 2008 19:51 GMT
#2
Thanks for reading tl, Much<3



tl'ers proably aren't gonna read it. but u shouldn't be thanking Much. he's even more likely not to read it. =)
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6610 Posts
July 28 2008 19:58 GMT
#3
One thing I'd just like to say is that Luxury did deserve to beat FlaSh. FlaSh only has himself to blame for playing the way he did and Luxury came up with a nice strat on Troy and beat him with consistently good play.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10801 Posts
July 28 2008 19:58 GMT
#4
Yeah, I don't think Much can even read English... it's even more unlikely that this will be translated into Korean for him.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States10838 Posts
July 28 2008 19:58 GMT
#5
Jaedong lost to Best on Demon's Forest, not Much where he did this one hatch lurk build and obs barely pops out in time.
Moderator
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11243 Posts
July 28 2008 20:25 GMT
#6
I read the whole thing, it was a good read

Good luck getting Faoi into TSL2 :p
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
DanceCommander
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1802 Posts
July 28 2008 20:36 GMT
#7
lol comabt exs method pwns!
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States7785 Posts
July 28 2008 22:25 GMT
#8
<3 rants!
I like starcraft
Emptyness
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Bulgaria1016 Posts
July 28 2008 22:41 GMT
#9
On July 29 2008 05:25 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I read the whole thing, it was a good read


Same here . Thank you very much for the nice read though . There are some things that are different in my thoughts (like I am not July's fan and the only time that I really, really liked Jaedong and were hardly rooting for him was his OSL final when he beat Stork (3-1 I think)).

I really liked how your thoughts jumps from one to other, then go back, then jumps further, etc . My thoughts do the same from time to time, but I do adore that feeling, because in that time I can express myself the best (I know it's not connected with your blog, but I felt need to say it ).

Again - very nice read, thank you .
Fall down 9 times, Get up 10.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States2961 Posts
July 28 2008 23:13 GMT
#10
lol I don't expect Much to read this, it's just a pun/joke thing, "much love TL" / "Much<3" because everyone knows about Much[gm]'s <3

On July 29 2008 04:58 Harem wrote:
Jaedong lost to Best on Demon's Forest, not Much where he did this one hatch lurk build and obs barely pops out in time.

Ah. I didn't actually watch the game, just read the battle report, I'm lazy

On July 29 2008 07:41 Emptyness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2008 05:25 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I read the whole thing, it was a good read


Same here . Thank you very much for the nice read though . There are some things that are different in my thoughts (like I am not July's fan and the only time that I really, really liked Jaedong and were hardly rooting for him was his OSL final when he beat Stork (3-1 I think)).

I really liked how your thoughts jumps from one to other, then go back, then jumps further, etc . My thoughts do the same from time to time, but I do adore that feeling, because in that time I can express myself the best (I know it's not connected with your blog, but I felt need to say it ).

Again - very nice read, thank you .

Thanks guys, I'm surprised anyone read it, let alone enjoyed it!. I was careful to try and add more paragraph breaks than I usually do for coherency, but I still expected "wall of text o_o"

Yeah the jumping thoughts thing is what made it definitely a blog post and not a general forum rant or something. I just wanted to rant, so I literally wrote down everything that came to mind, in that order.

On July 29 2008 04:58 jello_biafra wrote:
One thing I'd just like to say is that Luxury did deserve to beat FlaSh. FlaSh only has himself to blame for playing the way he did and Luxury came up with a nice strat on Troy and beat him with consistently good play.

Yeah I can understand that, but I feel like while Luxury played well, if Flash was playing well it wouldn't have mattered how well Luxury played. I don't know what made the Monster flinch, but I don't think it was Luxury. So then I'm saying Luxury got lucky, and that it while a win's a win, it's more of a hallow win, in my opinion.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7061 Posts
July 28 2008 23:51 GMT
#11
i read it. but bad.
.kaz
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
1959 Posts
July 29 2008 02:48 GMT
#12
Read the whole thing, and feel pretty much the same way, except from a Terran stand point. You have Jaedong, we have Flash. But I hope I speak for the majority of the Terran Fans (players) when I say that we want to see inovation, godly micro, amazing timing and game sense (boxer, nada, hwasin) and we get this shitty Flash, who is boring to watch IMO, outside of the fact that you're awed by how good he is. And I suppose he has all of those, but none of it really stands out because he's great in all of them. ForGG just has sick macro and timing ("Timing Attacker") but that is so boring to watch after a while.

I love TvP because I enjoy seeing A clicking, cheesy, greedy Toss' getting owned, but lately its just expo, duel armory, macro, upgrades, timing push, gg (if the push fails they usually lose to carriers / arbs late game).
I love TvZ because of the insane micro that is displayed in it, but as ForGG has shown us the only way to win now is to turtle up, macro up, timing push before defilers.
I love TvT because it is an amazing match up, you have to react perfectly to everything your opponent is doing and the second you trip up you are dead, so you get to see great showings off all the essentials. But in recent TvT's that I have watched they just split the map and go straight to BC's, dropships are hardly even used and if they are built and used its just to crawl a little more towards a base, or to delay your opponent by dropping his expo so your BC's get out in time.

I would do anything to be back in the days of Boxer, Nada, Goodfriend, Hwasin, Iris (berserker), Midas when there were epic TvZ's against July and Savior and TvP's vs Reach and Nal_rA and Much and Anytime.

I feel that there are no C terrans at all, because you are either stuck at D+ - C- or you have learned the timings and have good enough mechanics that you can get into B- with some hard work.

/rant

(Summary for tl;dr: Someone invent a time machine for me)
Pressure - "rock is the defender of justice" 이병민 / 박영민 Hwaiting~
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States2961 Posts
July 29 2008 03:07 GMT
#13
On July 29 2008 08:51 Raithed wrote:
i read it. but bad.

lol it's just a personal rant, how can it be "bad" ? What makes a rant good or bad anyway? -_-
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5504 Posts
July 29 2008 03:12 GMT
#14
In my stupidity, I think that it's all the maps' fault. The game has reached such a high level of perfection and the maps are so tailored towards macro that the games are extremely boring to watch and dull playstyles (Flash) are all we have left. I enjoyed the games July played vs Best though because they sort of brought back that oldschool micro.

I'm really hoping that BWM can reinvigorate the foreign scene, and while I do like Python very much, I hate watching players on it because it's always a boring, static game. But, as it's been proven sooooo much, no one bothers to play foreign maps even when they are aesthetically perfect, well balanced and fun to play. Btw, I read the entire thing and enjoyed it, agreeing on 90% of what you said. + Show Spoiler [TSL Finals Spoiler] +
Especially the Draco vs Iefnaij, that was so disappointing. The fact that he was up 2-0 and blew the last three games is so disappointing. Although if you hear the TSL people they'll probably say he didn't deserve it because he didn't practice.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17677 Posts
July 29 2008 04:07 GMT
#15
why are people saying jaedong lost to the same thing 3 times in a row game 1 was nothing like 2 and 3.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
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