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Blogs > Dromar
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Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-19 06:10:03
July 19 2008 06:06 GMT
#1
I'm gonna just get right to it: My rank is now 1839, and I'm about to get to D+, and I honestly don't feel I deserve to be called a D+ player. I can only win like 1/3 of games against D players, so why should I be considered D+? I should actually be D- I would think. I guess that's just not how the iCCup ranking system works. This update is a little small (only 20 games played since the last), but I'm basically going whenever I have questions or just something to say, which is now. So off we go:

1v1 analysis:

Zerg(76 games)
(16)ZvZ: 6-10 37.5%
(32)ZvP:12-20 37.5%
(28)ZvT: 6-22 21.4%

overall:24-52 31.5%

since last report:

Zerg(20 games)
( 4)ZvZ: 2- 2 50.0%
( 9)ZvP: 5- 4 55.6%
( 7)ZvT: 0- 7 0.0%

ZvZ: Haven't played many ZvZ games since my last update, but some new developments have arisen. Of the 4 ZvZ games I've played, I've been gassed twice. By gassed, I mean they sent a drone scout, and built an extractor on my gas.
The first time it happened was Tau Cross, where I responded by taking my nat (3rd hatch), and proceeding to lose the game like a noob because I forgot to make my lair long after I had enough gas. I feel I could have won that game had I gotten my lair and spire at the correct times, or just gotten spores a bit earlier. In fact, both my ZvZ losses came from me idiotically forgetting to upgrade to lair and/or forgetting to build spire. Hopefully I can rectify that easy problem.
Anyway, the second game I got gassed was on Blue Storm, and it made me realize that I have to have a plan to deal with this, since on 2 player maps, they can gas me easily if they wish to. This time I responded with a hidden hatch (3rd hatch) and mass speedlings just before his spire finished (ee han timing is easy with overlords )

ZvP: Uh, seeing that 5-4 record made me check my replays to figure out how I won. Basically, mutas rock in pretty much every way. 3hatch or 4hatch muta, almost like I'm playing ZvT, except I trade a couple mutas for scourge to deal with sairs (and scourge are way cheaper too). The great harassing power and mobility of mutas has basically allowed me to deny expansions, harass mineral lines, thwart the inevitable +1 speed zeals (see visual aid)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

and generally delay the protoss until I build up some sort of army and move in for the kill. Of course, we'll see how long this lasts.

ZvT: Well, still getting owned in ZvT. I don't know how I did it before. In the beginning, ZvT was my best matchup, wtf happened? Ok, so partially I've been trying to do 2hatch mutas, and have been failing miserably because I don't know the BO. See my ZvT question.

Questions:

ZvZ:
1. What good responses exist to getting gassed in ZvZ? What is the mindset/gameplan of a player who gasses his opponent in ZvZ?

ZvP:
1. A ZvP I played on Blue Storm opened like this: I'm rematching a guy I just played, and my overpool speed left me a bit weak economically, and he defended it pretty well, so this game I decide to go 12pool. It just so happened that on Blue Storm, I was ready to lay down my 3rd hatch, meanwhile my overlord had just barely gotten to his nat, and all I was able to see at the time was a gateway in his nat (and no nexus), but I placed my 3rd at my min only anyway, since it's so close to my main and nat, he's not going 2gate or proxy gate (since I would have been pressured by now) and I'm laying down a hat anyway. So it got me thinking: Is there any reason NOT to take a 3rd base immediately with your 3rd hatch in ZvP regardless of scouting info (taking into account that you know by then that he's not doing something really aggressive)?
2. This one is actually more of a rant, so I'll spoiler it.
+ Show Spoiler +
Why do some protosses think it's "LAME" or cheesy to go overpool speedling runby? I can think of 4 things that are more lame:
a) A single DT killing all 15 drones at my main, and me not finding out until he starts on the spawning pool.
b) Same, but with Psi Storm.
c) Same, but with reavers.
d) Protosses who think they can FE all the time without repercussion. This isn't nr20min.
Honestly, if you prepare for it, scout it, and/or deal with it well, the zerg can get himself far behind, and just because there's a few lings in your base doesn't mean you're losing.


ZvT:
1. How do you do 2hatch muta? I really know nothing about it, except the idea is to get mutas really fast. I assumed you opened 9pool speed to deny scouting/harass with speedlings, but trying that left me with no money at all. I didn't have 150 minerals to make lair, I didn't have 150 minerals to make spire, I didn't have 200 minerals to make ovies, and I didn't have 600 minerals to make mutas. So then I tried overpool speedlings, which IMO really sucks ZvT, since there's no way the lings will get there in time to actually do damage. It helped a tiny bit, but not much. Basically, either I don't have enough minerals, or it's not fast enough. The only other alternative it seems is to allow terran to scout your build, which I just assumed was a very bad idea. So, please, school me on the art of 2hatch muta.


I think that's all for now.
As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.



*****
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
July 19 2008 06:12 GMT
#2
Normally 2hatch muta is
12hatch
11pool
10 or 13gas, I've seen both
Lair with first 100 gas
Second gas when Spire is at 50%
Save up
Make Mutalisks
???
Win ez.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Dr.Dragoon
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1241 Posts
July 19 2008 06:18 GMT
#3
I noticed that there's a lot more protosses on iccup, and they're usually worse than players of the other 2 races that I come across, at least in D/D+ ranks. Keep up the good work, I can see you're making progress from when I first played you waaay back.
~o~ I have returned
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
July 19 2008 06:26 GMT
#4
On July 19 2008 15:12 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Normally 2hatch muta is
12hatch
11pool
10 or 13gas, I've seen both
Lair with first 100 gas
Second gas when Spire is at 50%
Save up
Make Mutalisks
???
Win ez.


How does this not get owned hard as soon as terran sees you're not putting down a 3rd hatch? I guess maybe he won't be sure until he scouts around the map for a hidden 3rd?

I'll try it anyways. I was thinking I'd have to go for a more econo opening. 9pool speed just has such a shitty economy.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
July 19 2008 06:28 GMT
#5
On July 19 2008 15:26 Dromar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2008 15:12 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Normally 2hatch muta is
12hatch
11pool
10 or 13gas, I've seen both
Lair with first 100 gas
Second gas when Spire is at 50%
Save up
Make Mutalisks
???
Win ez.


How does this not get owned hard as soon as terran sees you're not putting down a 3rd hatch? I guess maybe he won't be sure until he scouts around the map for a hidden 3rd?

I'll try it anyways. I was thinking I'd have to go for a more econo opening. 9pool speed just has such a shitty economy.


In all honesty, I don't know. I used to 2hatch muta every game, and it seemed to do damage even if it was scouted; maybe the people i were playing just sucked at that level.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
July 19 2008 06:48 GMT
#6
double hatch vs forge FE protoss. and try for a hydralisk break, if that dont work switch off to mutalisks, theyll have too many cannons guarding front and not enough near minerals.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
July 19 2008 08:18 GMT
#7
The reason you don't take your third right away if you don't scout him first is because it leaves a big timming window were he can attack you, if you want to defend both your bases you would need to sunk at 2 places. If you make a big army to stop him your economy will be shit.

Taking your third on blue storm is cool because the natural access is tiny, but as a drawback you have low ground in your third. On other maps taking your 3rd without scouting is suicide (tau cross, python, etc).
Moderator<:3-/-<
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
July 19 2008 09:00 GMT
#8
On July 19 2008 15:06 Dromar wrote:
The great harassing power and mobility of mutas has basically allowed me to deny expansions, harass mineral lines, thwart the inevitable +1 speed zeals (see visual aid)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



LOL
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-19 14:26:00
July 19 2008 14:25 GMT
#9
In all honesty I wouldn't bother using 2 hatch muta at the lower levels, since most terrans D to C- just 1 rax expand every game and then just turret up like a whore. You can't break his nat on the ground because your larvae is dedicated to muta, you cant harass his eco because he's throwna fuckload of turrets up there, you just kind of end up getting chased around his base by marines while he macros up to go out and steamroll you.

EDIT: and yeah that visual aid is the most badass starcraft analogy I've ever een.
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
July 19 2008 14:51 GMT
#10
On July 19 2008 23:25 anderoo wrote:
In all honesty I wouldn't bother using 2 hatch muta at the lower levels, since most terrans D to C- just 1 rax expand every game and then just turret up like a whore. You can't break his nat on the ground because your larvae is dedicated to muta, you cant harass his eco because he's throwna fuckload of turrets up there, you just kind of end up getting chased around his base by marines while he macros up to go out and steamroll you.

EDIT: and yeah that visual aid is the most badass starcraft analogy I've ever een.


Yeah, that's like exactly how the games went, though I executed it wrong.
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