EPT
SC II is doomed.
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11570 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
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XCetron
5225 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
On November 14 2007 12:16 Last Romantic wrote: Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous! This man speaks truth.  (whatever he meant) | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
As to what you said, well while I am against MBS, I don't think it will have as big of an effect as you make it seem. As for automining, autorepair (which has been removed as of current build), and autobuilding interceptors, I don't think these are as big of a deal as MBS and have an even smaller effect. Also you should realize that such features as MBS also add benefits to the game, such as accessibility for the casual gamer who averages APMs of 20-60. Regarding how it effects the pro-scene, granted it will be easier for the pros and the skill ceiling will be lowered, it will still be high enough to make games enjoyable to watch. Just think about why it is so popular in Korea. A bigger issue regarding the e-sports scene is making it as fun to watch (for everyone, even people who've never played) as Starcraft 1 was. Furthermore, the viewer watching the match mostly will not get to see the player queuing 10 units with 2 clicks, so MBS won't mean a lot to them. They will be seeing the action of the battles, the awesome micro moves and strategical decisions players make, not MBS, automining, and other UI enhancements. Another thing is that you exagerrated too much. 20 Factories? That is an extreme rarity, the average # of facts in a TvP or TvT game is probably more like 7. Not to mention that you probably don't wanna make the same unit from all your factories, at least not usually. I think people are making a bit too much fuss over MBS. Sure it's one factor but there are several other more important factors that will end up deciding whether or not SC2 can get as big as BW is in Korea, how big it can get elsewhere, how popular it'll be in the non-pro sense, etc. | ||
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AmorVincitOmnia
Kenya3846 Posts
those are the fuckers that blizzard are catering to. fuck that | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On November 14 2007 13:30 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: see?????????????? those are the fuckers that blizzard are catering to. fuck that | ||
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KoveN-
Australia503 Posts
I don't like MBS either but the world of Starcraft is not going to end over it. | ||
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Brutalisk
794 Posts
 About the MBS issue: Blizzard knows better what's good for the game than most of us, including me and including you. They decided to include these things from the beginning on, so they can't be inherently bad. You also shouldn't think that what some semi-pros here say about MBS must be the truth. In WC2, there were a lot of good players too, and they feared exactly the same when SC came out: that the simpler UI would ruin the game. We all know that hasn't happened, but instead the gameplay got better. SC1 will likely be the last big RTS without MBS. You can either be sad about that, or try to be a little bit more open-minded and give SC2 with MBS a chance. Maybe you'll grow to like it, because you'll discover new ways to play the game. Just remember that SC1 also sucked when it was released, it needed about 8 patches to become the well-balanced game we all love. SC2 will probably need less patches b/c Blizzard is more experienced and pays more attention to these things and so on, but still... it's doubtful that it's already perfect at the time of release. And yeah don't bother posting on such crap forums. Avoid places with a lot of children and trolls. | ||
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EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On November 14 2007 15:08 Brutalisk wrote: About the MBS issue: Blizzard knows better what's good for the game than most of us, including me and including you. Huh ? Are you really sure ? I'm not because why did they ask for progamers and top foreign players to help them out ? I must agree that they may be really well experienced about how to make a fun RTS but i trully don't think that any blizzard employe would knows the game better than any progamers. Except obviously when it comes to new things, and new units. But they really should hire some top players to balance it out in order to not make this game be like war3. Don't get me wrong war3 is really different though, and if we had to do the auto-cast manually, it'd be near impossible to do this. But thank to starcraft there isn't many cast on this game right ? Well whatever we'll just see because we can only speculate and the game is not going to be released until a very long time. I mean a VERY long time. We know blizzard. They won't be able to release to the promised date. :p Better not wait until it comes out. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
I think the smartest thing for Blizzard to do would be to create the game for the general public and then near the final stages of developments, do extensive work with pros from across the world (not just the Koreans) and tweak it so it can be a highly competitive game. As you can tell just by reading posts, the median age of that board is probably 13~ and I'm fairly confident that Blizzard won't take them too seriously. Like the WoW boards, they'll hear complaints/issues and then examine them internally, so we're not in danger of Blizzard adding MBS because of an overwhelming number of forum posts or anything. If they add it, there will be a legitimate reason in their minds. More than anything, my concern is just that the game won't be balanced well enough (BW set extremely high standards) and it won't have a good flow. Neither of those are really affected by MBS/auto-mining. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
They should just cater to this site; at least we have some idea of what we're talking about. I'd bet 100 bucks the people who replied didn't read the entire thing or have ever seen a pro-game at all. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32034 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 14 2007 22:27 Hawk wrote: I played in CAL-i and I'm quick to admit the AWP is a horribly designed gun (any 1 hit kill is, really) but the delay was even dumber. One idiot named KillerKoala had like 15,000 posts on the Valve/Steam forums, 10,000 of which were claiming that quickly switching between an AWP and a pistol was an exploit.awp is really lame.. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32034 Posts
but anyway, yeah, that killer guy is pretty retarded, even if he does have a point. there's a differnce between making an intelligent point and being fucking obnoxious. but although i agree that Blizz prolly puts little value on the comments from their forums, it's still everyone's duty to voice their opinion. It's like voting: if you don't vote for anyone, don't bitch when the final result isn't what you liked. | ||
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brambolius
Netherlands448 Posts
On November 14 2007 22:27 Hawk wrote: awp is really lame.. | ||
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
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DwmC_Foefen
Belgium2186 Posts
On November 14 2007 22:25 Equinox_kr wrote: Holy shit that Blizzard forum is an epic fail. They should just cater to this site; at least we have some idea of what we're talking about. I'd bet 100 bucks the people who replied didn't read the entire thing or have ever seen a pro-game at all. All blizz's forums are epic fail. Just take a look at WoW, a great game ruined by the whiners and noobs. The problem is exactly that: Blizzard listens too much to his customers :p | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
On November 14 2007 19:04 EpiK wrote: I 100% agree with what you're saying | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 15 2007 01:08 DwmC_Foefen wrote: Are you serious? This post leads me to believe you never actually followed the forums.All blizz's forums are epic fail. Just take a look at WoW, a great game ruined by the whiners and noobs. The problem is exactly that: Blizzard listens too much to his customers :p If anything, the WoW forums are proof that Blizzard doesn't pay attention to its customers. Yeah, they take suggestions and look at them but the actual forum posts hardly have any sway on the developers, even though they're enough to make emo CMs quit their job. I'm 99.999999% sure the developers are arrogant enough to believe that they understand the balance of their game better than every fan. | ||
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Chodorkovskiy
Israel459 Posts
On November 14 2007 13:30 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: see?????????????? those are the fuckers that blizzard are catering to. fuck that Respect is what puts TL apart from all the other web communites. Respect the forum veterans, they know who is a fucktard and who - a gay motherfucker. Respect must be earned and we will make damn fucking sure you have to earn every ounce of it. Until you do, you're a worthless piece of n00b shit who doesn't deserve to live. Don't worry, we've all been there, which is why we take so much delight in reminding you, just how low in the food chain you really are. In fact, you're not even in the food chain - the food chain ends right above you. Remember that and maybe, just maybe, a mod will shit down your throat one day. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32034 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On November 15 2007 04:14 Chodorkovskiy wrote: Respect is what puts TL apart from all the other web communites. Respect the forum veterans, they know who is a fucktard and who - a gay motherfucker. Respect must be earned and we will make damn fucking sure you have to earn every ounce of it. Until you do, you're a worthless piece of n00b shit who doesn't deserve to live. Don't worry, we've all been there, which is why we take so much delight in reminding you, just how low in the food chain you really are. In fact, you're not even in the food chain - the food chain ends right above you. Remember that and maybe, just maybe, a mod will shit down your throat one day. You realize he was talking about the newbs in the Blizzard forums, right? You realize you just made an ass of yourself by insulting a member who has been around longer and is more widely respected and known than you? Hawk already put it appropriately - you are one of the SC II release newbs; he has been here since before that. It's not your place to say the things I bolded up top, talking like some sort of super old-school elite site founder or some shit, when in reality you are a 373 post, few month member. Your learn YOUR place. Now you might say, "fanatacist, you're new too!" And yes, I am, but that is why I don't post such blatantly ignorant and baselessly disrespectful posts to anyone but newbs and idiots. You're the one who is more likely to get banned for insulting a more respected member. Words cannot express how stupid your post was. As you said: Wantz: Act my age Good luck with that - but you're going in the wrong direction. Just my two cents. | ||
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Months
United States356 Posts
On November 15 2007 03:02 Jibba wrote: Are you serious? This post leads me to believe you never actually followed the forums. If anything, the WoW forums are proof that Blizzard doesn't pay attention to its customers. Yeah, they take suggestions and look at them but the actual forum posts hardly have any sway on the developers, even though they're enough to make emo CMs quit their job. I'm 99.999999% sure the developers are arrogant enough to believe that they understand the balance of their game better than every fan. what teams? ive played for a few invite teams oops meant to select the post you said you were cal-i, gotta go asap so i caont find it now ;] peace | ||
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pyrogenetix
United Arab Emirates5091 Posts
dont blame blizzard, they have to make money as an organization. they do not have any responsibility to make a good game. do you think mcdonalds cares about making good food? no they just want to make money. i've said this before: blizzard just hit one giant fucking jackpot with sc. blizzard does not, did not and will never ever have a tenth of the skill that this forum possesses when it comes to game knowledge and so all the "balance" was a total fucking fluke. just admit it. after watching so many interviews and videos, the difference between the blizzard employees and the average bnet BGH player is... well... i dont know. sure ill play sc2, like i played wc3, dow and halflife2 for the flashy graphics, but am i going to put down up to four years of my time and dedication to try to achieve a skill level that i know will be totally swarming with noobs cuz of stupid things like MBS and shit? no i wont. total waste of time hahaha. sc2 was going to be shit ever since it came out. it just looks cool and has big daddy sc1 supporting it. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32034 Posts
On November 15 2007 05:15 pyrogenetix wrote: i never expected for SC2 to become what sc is now, i just thot of it as something that i'd play with my total noob friends for kicks, deliberately not delving into it too much cuz i would rape everyone else and not be fun anymore (sc situation among friends now). i just think of it as an action movie where u go for the quick rush of adrenaline but no depth, all cheap action with flashy graphics. dont blame blizzard, they have to make money as an organization. they do not have any responsibility to make a good game. do you think mcdonalds cares about making good food? no they just want to make money. i've said this before: blizzard just hit one giant fucking jackpot with sc. blizzard does not, did not and will never ever have a tenth of the skill that this forum possesses when it comes to game knowledge and so all the "balance" was a total fucking fluke. just admit it. after watching so many interviews and videos, the difference between the blizzard employees and the average bnet BGH player is... well... i dont know. sure ill play sc2, like i played wc3, dow and halflife2 for the flashy graphics, but am i going to put down up to four years of my time and dedication to try to achieve a skill level that i know will be totally swarming with noobs cuz of stupid things like MBS and shit? no i wont. total waste of time hahaha. sc2 was going to be shit ever since it came out. it just looks cool and has big daddy sc1 supporting it. yeah... you kinda said what ive been keeping bottle inside all along. le sighhhhhh | ||
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zoLo
United States5896 Posts
Off topic, the AWP isn't a cheap gun at all because it can change the tide of the round in favor of the other team. It does take skill to use the AWP and do you think you can kill more than 3 opponents running at you with automatic rifles? It's like any other game. Just shut up and play or uninstall the game. | ||
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AmorVincitOmnia
Kenya3846 Posts
On November 15 2007 04:14 Chodorkovskiy wrote: Respect is what puts TL apart from all the other web communites. Respect the forum veterans, they know who is a fucktard and who - a gay motherfucker. Respect must be earned and we will make damn fucking sure you have to earn every ounce of it. Until you do, you're a worthless piece of n00b shit who doesn't deserve to live. Don't worry, we've all been there, which is why we take so much delight in reminding you, just how low in the food chain you really are. In fact, you're not even in the food chain - the food chain ends right above you. Remember that and maybe, just maybe, a mod will shit down your throat one day. who are you lol? | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
GG no re. | ||
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Chodorkovskiy
Israel459 Posts
On November 15 2007 04:40 Hawk wrote: ...I'd take amor over you any day. You're one of the morons who joined after scII releaase, and you're commenting about respect? Um... yes please? On November 15 2007 04:57 fanatacist wrote: You realize he was talking about the newbs in the Blizzard forums, right? You realize you just made an ass of yourself by insulting a member who has been around longer and is more widely respected and known than you? Hawk already put it appropriately - you are one of the SC II release newbs; he has been here since before that. It's not your place to say the things I bolded up top, talking like some sort of super old-school elite site founder or some shit, when in reality you are a 373 post, few month member. Your learn YOUR place. Now you might say, "fanatacist, you're new too!" And yes, I am, but that is why I don't post such blatantly ignorant and baselessly disrespectful posts to anyone but newbs and idiots. You're the one who is more likely to get banned for insulting a more respected member. Words cannot express how stupid your post was. Where exactly do I insult anyone? I'm making a straw-man argument, yes, but to see it as a personal insult is a bit, how should I put it, defensive. In fact, your own post seems to fit mine perfectly: insulting anyone but newbs and idiots is bad? I guess you can't even imagine being respectful to everyone. Oh yeah, I'm very likely to get banned, but not because I'm wrong. Meh, I was having a bad day. At least I didn't start insulting people, like you seem to believe. Edit: I just realized you read "wantz" as "personal goals". In fact, it's supposed to mean "what I want from you" - the person reading my profile. "Skillz" being "what I can do for you". I'll have to think of another way to put it, I guess... Nobody you should be afraid of, unfortunately. It seems fear is the only thing TL regulars respect. | ||
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Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
On November 15 2007 16:47 Chodorkovskiy wrote: Nobody you should be afraid of, unfortunately. It seems fear is the only thing TL regulars respect. It makes me sad to hear you say that. While I disagree with some of your points, I usually respect you as a poster. Respect can be earned through means other than inspiring fear. The only people who can even remotely terrorize are mods, and they generally don't choose to. Mods have reached their current positions through gaining respect as productive forum members. As a regular with relatively decent standing, I feel that I respect and am respected to some degree here. I don't think anyone is afraid of me though. That is pretty much applicable to the larger population of TL regulars. Obviously, there are going to be a few bad eggs - but realize that those regulars are themselves not seen in a good light. Your first post and your last post just seem contradictory, is all. Personally, I think you'll become a forum fixture - perhaps somewhat controversial in viewpoints, but TL rarely bans for dissent. | ||
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Chodorkovskiy
Israel459 Posts
On November 15 2007 17:14 Last Romantic wrote: It makes me sad to hear you say that. While I disagree with some of your points, I usually respect you as a poster. Respect can be earned through means other than inspiring fear. The only people who can even remotely terrorize are mods, and they generally don't choose to. Mods have reached their current positions through gaining respect as productive forum members. As a regular with relatively decent standing, I feel that I respect and am respected to some degree here. I don't think anyone is afraid of me though. That is pretty much applicable to the larger population of TL regulars. Obviously, there are going to be a few bad eggs - but realize that those regulars are themselves not seen in a good light. Your first post and your last post just seem contradictory, is all. Personally, I think you'll become a forum fixture - perhaps somewhat controversial in viewpoints, but TL rarely bans for dissent. That's the nicest thing anyone here has ever said to me. I appreciate it... My first post seems strange, because it's a parody on one of the guide-lines: One of the fundamental traits that separates TeamLiquid from its competitors is the aspect of respect. We are not a message board where you can simply spout your tongue to anyone you like - respect must be earned, and offenses are met with repercussions. New users routinely earn our respect by displaying intelligence and by contributing to the community. We were all in your shoes once as newcomers, but learned to respect the rules and respect each other. My interpretation may not be accurate, but it seems closer to reality than the above quote. Maybe I just keep running into those bad eggs you're talking about. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On November 15 2007 16:47 Chodorkovskiy wrote: On a general note, I was around Bnet forums long, looooong before the SCII announcement. I joined because one day I realized all the "cool kids" left for this place. Um... yes please? Where exactly do I insult anyone? I'm making a straw-man argument, yes, but to see it as a personal insult is a bit, how should I put it, defensive. In fact, your own post seems to fit mine perfectly: insulting anyone but newbs and idiots is bad? I guess you can't even imagine being respectful to everyone. Oh yeah, I'm very likely to get banned, but not because I'm wrong. Meh, I was having a bad day. At least I didn't start insulting people, like you seem to believe. Edit: I just realized you read "wantz" as "personal goals". In fact, it's supposed to mean "what I want from you" - the person reading my profile. "Skillz" being "what I can do for you". I'll have to think of another way to put it, I guess... Nobody you should be afraid of, unfortunately. It seems fear is the only thing TL regulars respect. Where exactly do I insult anyone? The main reason you are out of line about your comment towards Amor is because he said nothing to warrant ANY of your cynical talks about respect. This is basically the summary of that conversation: Caucasian Asian: I voiced my opinion on the Blizzard forums, and all of these noobs attacked me. AmorVincitOmnia: Those are the idiots that Blizzard is catering to. YOU: "Respect the forum veterans, they know who is a fucktard and who - a gay motherfucker. Respect must be earned and we will make damn fucking sure you have to earn every ounce of it. Until you do, you're a worthless piece of n00b shit who doesn't deserve to live... Remember that and maybe, just maybe, a mod will shit down your throat one day." Wow, talk about a furious rant with no relevance to anyone or anything in this blog! That form of resistance is a sure way to get support from the TL community as a whole against those dirty no-good regulars. Your seemingly pre-meditated argument (seems that way because as I mentioned, it had no relation whatsoever to what was being said - the BLIZZARD forums and their respective noobs was the topic, not Team Liquid) is wasted on a blog where it isn't meant to be, on a person who did nothing to deserve such a backlash. In fact, your own post seems to fit mine perfectly: insulting anyone but newbs and idiots is bad? I guess you can't even imagine being respectful to everyone. Oh yeah, I'm very likely to get banned, but not because I'm wrong. Insulting anyone is bad. But noobs that come in here and post pure retardation and get banned within the first 50 posts - there is barely a need to respect their points or arguments, as they are asanine and often vile in their own way. And, oh say, a person that comes into a blog and fulfills their own agenda by attacking a member for no reason. I don't think that deserves any respect at all, even if they have a logic behind their argument. You came, you trolled, and now you wonder why someone didn't like it. Saying that I can't imagine being respectful to anyone is such an ignorant statement, it puts me in further doubt of your personality. Insulting people who are NOT noobs tends to stem only from when they themselves make stupid posts. I've said nasty things to people with higher post counts than me, but only when I thought it was necessary. The ones that I felt justified in doing so (95% of the time), I was adamant in my defense. The ones that I felt I was mistaken (usually after I realize I had overlooked something), I had apologized. It's your turn to apologize, and not say "Waaah I had a bad day, so I am justified in going on TL.net and trolling off-topic with my seemingly higher morals that no one understands. And I'll quote an innocent poster, and then curse too. Sounds like a great way to vent on my bad day, by making the forums a shitter place. Hooray!" In fact, I personally believe you ARE wrong, as I've stated above, but that's my opinion; and you MIGHT'VE gotten banned, but not for your opinion. My saying you could get banned wasn't because you're feared as a revolutionist, a voice of the oppressed noobs in the forums, and would thus be banned so you couldn't cause trouble to the mighty totalitarian community that is TL. It wasn't because you disagreed with the system of respect which runs here. It was because you were ignorant, insulting, and overall a dick in your post, in a place and to a person where it had no place. Dissent is okay. Sarcasm is okay too. I held some respect for a lot of your posts in the past, with the exception of a few, but overall I agreed with the person that temp-banned you in that overall your posts were good. The post you had made here was one of those exceptions. Edit: I just realized you read "wantz" as "personal goals". In fact, it's supposed to mean "what I want from you" - the person reading my profile. "Skillz" being "what I can do for you". I'll have to think of another way to put it, I guess... I guess you're not too good with making your thoughts clear, in this topic or in your profile. Because that sure as hell made no sense - the way your info was set up, the possibility that it could be construed in any other way was impossible in my eyes. Nobody you should be afraid of, unfortunately. It seems fear is the only thing TL regulars respect. And we're right back where we started from. Do you think you garner any respect by coming here angry and enraged, hurting over those big bad regulars? No one is afraid of anyone on here. It's the internet, on an SC forum. You may be afraid of getting banned, but most of the time you will know when you are heading in that direction and why it is appropriate that you should be banned. A post like the one you made here personally shows me that you are in fact the one being immature. You're upset, or having a bad day, and that's normal. But you decided to express it in the worst way possible - a misguided and misplaced attempt to show the inequalities of a website through anger and sarcasm? What were you thinking? Your opinion is heard, and if it is presented rationally, it won't matter if you are a mod or regular or not. But when you post in the fashion you did, you don't earn any respect, in fact you get the opposite. Also, "Nobody you should be afraid of, unfortunately."? What the hell? Do you think this rant would be any more acceptable if you were OMG CHORDORKOVSKIY SUPER MOD AND REGULAR? I would have responded in the same way. And why would you want people to fear you? Fear is what is needed to control people when you have a weak argument. A strong argument needs no fear to convince people. You in fact illustrated the reason why noobs in general are disrespected and regulars generally are. Most regulars would not post an idiotic post like that, but noobs tend to post crap all the time. And if a regular did post something of that nature, they would be punished as well. Perhaps to a lesser degree due to their good track record, but punished nonetheless. So as I said before, grow up and maybe try a different perspective on this place. In this instance you caused all the resentment towards yourself - it's your fault as the ignorant individual, not the fault of a feudalist website that you claim is run here, where noobs kiss the feet of their superiors and the like. | ||
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AmorVincitOmnia
Kenya3846 Posts
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HonkHonkBeep
China353 Posts
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Tensai176
Canada2061 Posts
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lugggy
450 Posts
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fgsvsd
Switzerland348 Posts
On December 09 2007 11:26 HonkHonkBeep wrote: Wow fanaticist, get over it. Wow. Lol. What's your problem? | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
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