I'm an atheist who has recently been introduced by my friend to the Bible, a book which I had never read before. All this time I thought it was just full of religious stuff that only religious people believe in, but I was very surprised at what my friend showed me. According to him the Bible has correctly predicted many things in the past, from science (the Earth being round and orbits around the Sun, the centre of the Earth being extremely hot, etc.) to history (the rise and fall of several empires, the split of European countries with Britain, etc.).
He then introduced me to several of his "friends" who have the same belief that "everything in the Bible is true, and God does exist". The guys seem like normal people, nothing special about them. This morning I met them again and "studied" my second lesson about the Bible. They said there are seven "puzzle pieces" that after opening them all, I will find out everything about life, including why we are here and what is our purpose of living. Welp.
They are not trying to hide the fact that they want me to join them at all as they are asking me to spend at least one hour every day learning about the book. As a skeptic person I tried to Google about it, but it seems like there are a 50-50 between Bible believers and atheists.
What should I do now? I don’t believe in things that I can’t see or feel, but I don't want to lose my friend, who's also my favorite barber. If reading the Bible once in a while is what it takes to keep our friendship then I might do it, but I have a feeling there are other stuff they want me to do that I won't be comfortable doing. Help!
My point of view on religion: see it as something that is "very important" to people. You can respect their ideas without having the same ideas yourself.
It's fine for 2 persons to have any relation (be it friendship, romantic, work) while finding different things in life important. One might feel that diet is very important. The other, while seeing the value in diet, deems it less important than, say, knowing all the Taylor Swift songs by heart. Diet-person will point out healthy recipes because they think the other is benefited by that. Taylor Swift-person will quote song lyrics because they think the other is benefited by that. And it might in fact both be true.
Determine how important you think the Bible is to you. It might not be as important to you as it is to your friend. But that does not mean that you cannot still have discussions about it, learn things from it. You're interested in what is important to them, good on you. If they're proper friends, they'll respect you and the things you feel are important.
Should they make this into something "either you're in or you're out" (not saying they are), then you have to ask yourself if this is the company you want to hang out with.
I would have suggested reading it for cultural impact if you lived in the west, but it looks like you live in Vietnam, so the cultural impact is minimal for your culture. Learning about Buddhism would allow you to know your culture and history better. You can continue to read the book to make your friend happy, and maybe it makes sense to you. But if you do not believe in the book, and he treats you differently then he wasn't really your friend in the first place. He just wanted the pride of converting you to Christianity. Jesus in the Bible would hang out with people that were far from perfect, and was not judgmental.
There have been many efforts to convert people in South East Asia to Christianity. I think that is because people in the west are in similar circumstances, and the arguments need to be really strong to persuade someone here. I think missionaries utilize their power and privilege to convert people. They also seek people out trying to convince them, rather than having someone become curious and come to them.
The bible is full of lies and any person with 5 or more brain cells should be able to tell. The central premise of the second half is virgin birth and ressurection from the dead. In the first arc people live to be 900 years old, and it claims that the earth is 6000 years old. This claim has been refuted in 1859 by charles darwin. People who think these stories are real, are either completely indictrinated since birth, or pants on head retarded.
Now what the bible does do, is offer a widespread and proven way to control oppress and manipulate people. Especially the ones that get way deep into it and start believing the horse shit. And ones that get fed bible lies instead of education as children. Fear of divine retribution and eternal suffering are no joke to people who have only ever been told that its real. Some people even go so far, as to pretend to go along with the lies,because they fear reprecussions. Some communities cast out and ostricise members that refuse to play along.
Books are like youtube videos. If they promise very easy solutions to hard questions, its probably wrong.
For me, Religion (doesn't matter which one) is the reason for multiple (mass) murderings throughout history and has to be avoided as much as possible. People have been brainwashed by religious leaders for centuries.
This is a very intriguing topic. I grew up in a religious family, visiting services of the first German mega church. Later, I became a Jesus Freak and organized parties in hip and trendy clubs in Stuttgart. (For football fans — I briefly met Thomas Tuchel back then, when he worked at the Radio Bar as a barkeeper, but it's unlikely he would remember that.)
Back then, I always had a bad conscience, but never doubted the Christian faith. I knew evolution theory, radical constructivism (Heinz von Foerster), later on, Luhmann's Systemtheorie and Spencer Brown's Laws of Form. Surprisingly, that did not change my beliefs, but rather incorporated their ideas into my world view.
Jumping in time, forward to 2016's US presidential election and the Brexit vote. When people whose books and teachings I admired started to support Trump and Brexit, I had an existential crisis, finally seeing that most of the evangelicals supported evil to further their ill-advised culture wars. I became an atheist in 2016 or 2017 because I thought that no God could ever support Trump or not stop the Holocaust.
Jumping in time to 2023. I'm not so certain that I'm an atheist any more because I witnessed some things that aren't easy to describe, but I found out one significant thing: In 2016, the Trump election caused a manic episode for me. At that point, it wasn't diagnosed. After seeing fellow Christians following the Trump ideology, I lost my whole social circle and Christian friends, some claiming I was possessed and keeping their children away from me. Once that manic episode was over, I lost my faith and became an atheist.
Radical constructivism is right. Listen to the talk linked as my quote (tl.net humour). We assume that our deception of reality is correct or true, but that is unlikely the case.
If the God of the bible exists, he is not a likeable character.
Today's evangelicals don't follow the teachings of Jesus and much prefer Paul, who was essentially an ISIS terrorist before becoming Paulus. It's great that he stopped stoning people, but is that really the vita to build a religion on?
Just read something like Matthew 10, Luke 12 or the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) and compare it to today's evangelical teachings.
Or, in short — just because something works, doesn't mean it's right.
On December 19 2023 05:03 Branch.AUT wrote: The bible is full of lies and any person with 5 or more brain cells should be able to tell. The central premise of the second half is virgin birth and ressurection from the dead. In the first arc people live to be 900 years old, and it claims that the earth is 6000 years old. This claim has been refuted in 1859 by charles darwin. People who think these stories are real, are either completely indictrinated since birth, or pants on head retarded.
Now what the bible does do, is offer a widespread and proven way to control oppress and manipulate people. Especially the ones that get way deep into it and start believing the horse shit. And ones that get fed bible lies instead of education as children. Fear of divine retribution and eternal suffering are no joke to people who have only ever been told that its real. Some people even go so far, as to pretend to go along with the lies,because they fear reprecussions. Some communities cast out and ostricise members that refuse to play along.
Books are like youtube videos. If they promise very easy solutions to hard questions, its probably wrong.
But a lot of the prophecies in the Bible have come true. Or have they? where do I even find reliable sources for this?
On December 19 2023 05:03 Branch.AUT wrote: The bible is full of lies and any person with 5 or more brain cells should be able to tell. The central premise of the second half is virgin birth and ressurection from the dead. In the first arc people live to be 900 years old, and it claims that the earth is 6000 years old. This claim has been refuted in 1859 by charles darwin. People who think these stories are real, are either completely indictrinated since birth, or pants on head retarded.
Now what the bible does do, is offer a widespread and proven way to control oppress and manipulate people. Especially the ones that get way deep into it and start believing the horse shit. And ones that get fed bible lies instead of education as children. Fear of divine retribution and eternal suffering are no joke to people who have only ever been told that its real. Some people even go so far, as to pretend to go along with the lies,because they fear reprecussions. Some communities cast out and ostricise members that refuse to play along.
Books are like youtube videos. If they promise very easy solutions to hard questions, its probably wrong.
But a lot of the prophecies in the Bible have come true. Or have they? where do I even find reliable sources for this?
That is true, but foremost, a lot of these things are done because they were written down. One good is example is Matthew (21:4-5) and John (12:14-15) both pointing to a prophetic fulfillment of Zechariah 9 verse 9.
Matthew 21
1cAs they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, say that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away.” 4 This took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: 5 “Say to Daughter Zion,‘See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
John 12
12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. 13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,“Hosanna![d]”“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”[e]“Blessed is the king of Israel!” 14 Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, as it is written: 15 “Do not be afraid, Daughter Zion; see, your king is coming,seated on a donkey’s colt.”[f] 16 At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that these things had been done to him.
Jesus read the prophecy and decided to fulfil it. The problem with free will comes to mind. As it was written down in Zechariah 9, did Jesus have a choice, a free will?
If you say yes, he had a free will then the prophecy would have been wrong if he decided against it, making God, the father, a liar.
If you say no, then how could anything we do be a sin if we have no choice?
The same goes for the creation of humanity story. Not only do the family trees at the beginning of two gospels put the age of the earth at around 6000 years, but we have undeniable evidence, that this is not the case. Funny side note - the family trees end with Joseph, who isn't Jesus's father.
If God knew everything that would happen, including the apple eaten - why did he create earth with a rule (he knew would be broken) and cursing every woman. What was the reason for designing a world with so much unnecessary suffering, ignore humans, just animals? Why design a world in which animals eat other animals? Why was he proud on the seventh day if he knew about crusades, witch burnings or the holocaust?
He is either not all-knowing, and he didn't know what would happen, then all his prophecies are lies, because he can only guess the decisions humans would make.
Or he is all-knowing and really designed earth like this. This feels like a semi-decent Minecraft player that turns on hard mode (free will) and then nearly rage-quitting (Noah and the Ark), but being persuaded by Noah not to kill all of his (Minecraft mixed with The Sims) creation. Then he talks about the Messiah, and then he sends his spirit (intelligent dust?) to impregnate (to avoid the r*** word) a probably 14-year-old girl, but doesn't even stand with her but sends some lackeys (angels) to persuade her fiancé to claim the child as his. And this is really a story we tell children at Christmas?
Friendship shouldn't be conditioned upon religious beliefs imo. Also, you're incorrect when you say "the Bible correctly says that the Earth orbits around the Sun". The Bible promotes geocentrism, not heliocentrism, and so much so that scientists like Galileo were imprisoned by religious leaders for promoting scientific observations and facts that contradict the Bible. There are plenty of other things that the Bible is historically, scientifically, and morally wrong about. But besides all that, those friends aren't your friends if all they care about is you becoming a Christian. They should respect non-Christians too.
You're extremely lonely and an easy target. You mentioned yourself you don't know whether or not to believe them but you don't want to lose your friend (who is also your barber?).
You've already put yourself in a position where you're not very likely to make solid judgements. The types of arguments you will encounter can be sometimes tricky to decipher, these people have centuries of experience of convincing people of certain interpretations.
On December 19 2023 05:03 Branch.AUT wrote: The bible is full of lies and any person with 5 or more brain cells should be able to tell. The central premise of the second half is virgin birth and ressurection from the dead. In the first arc people live to be 900 years old, and it claims that the earth is 6000 years old. This claim has been refuted in 1859 by charles darwin. People who think these stories are real, are either completely indictrinated since birth, or pants on head retarded.
Now what the bible does do, is offer a widespread and proven way to control oppress and manipulate people. Especially the ones that get way deep into it and start believing the horse shit. And ones that get fed bible lies instead of education as children. Fear of divine retribution and eternal suffering are no joke to people who have only ever been told that its real. Some people even go so far, as to pretend to go along with the lies,because they fear reprecussions. Some communities cast out and ostricise members that refuse to play along.
Books are like youtube videos. If they promise very easy solutions to hard questions, its probably wrong.
But a lot of the prophecies in the Bible have come true. Or have they? where do I even find reliable sources for this?
The Bible is the most well preserved ancient manuscript ever - there is no dispute to this, and both Christian and secular historians will agree to this. This means that when you read the Bible, you can be confident that the text you're reading is the same text that has been preserved thousands of years ago.
Now, of course, there are disputes on whether what the Bible claims is true (or not) and this is something that you'll have to explore and discover.
As far as I know the modern Bible is not the same text that was written ~1800 years ago. Wasn't it rewritten a few times, translated, translated again, every time with tweaks and mistakes?
Also there's a bunch of older well-preserved texts.
On December 20 2023 14:37 Azzur wrote: The Bible is the most well preserved ancient manuscript ever - there is no dispute to this, and both Christian and secular historians will agree to this. This means that when you read the Bible, you can be confident that the text you're reading is the same text that has been preserved thousands of years ago.
Now, of course, there are disputes on whether what the Bible claims is true (or not) and this is something that you'll have to explore and discover.
Uh, depending on the language you're reading, this isn't close to true. Certainly not in english, and the original text weren't in a singular language anyways. Exegesis, translation and interpretation of the bible at large is its own thing, which is why things like the King James Version are radically different than the New International Version, as an example. Unless you're reading it in hebrew and greek with a robust understanding of its historical context, it sure isn't the same text that has been preserved for thousands of years.
As for the actual topic - I was raised religious and did a whole bunch of biblical study. My father is a pastor and has studied the bible the vast majority of his life. To the best of my knowledge there's no mention of seven puzzle pieces that unlock the secret to the meaning of life, and while spirituality, faith, and companionship can certainly fill a void what you're being set up with here has my alarm bells ringing.
Proceed with caution. The bible is a fascinating book, but it's not going to solve your life's problems. Anyone trying to tell you anything is going to solve all your life's problems is not someone you should trust.
1. I recommend God is not a Good Theory by Sean Carroll (theoretical physicist and philosopher):
2. If your friend would cut ties with you because you don't want to join their activity, are they really your friend? MUTUAL respect goes BOTH WAYS. If you want me to respect your opinion you HAVE to respect my opinion.
3. Those "predictions" are funny, considering the knowledge has been out for roughly 700 years prior the texts in the bible. These are not the only things the texts have borrowed from myths and legends even older than that one.
Spherical Earth or Earth's curvature refers to the approximation of the figure of the Earth as a sphere. The earliest documented mention of the concept dates from around the 5th century BC, when it appears in the writings of Greek philosophers.[1][2] In the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy established the roughly spherical shape of Earth as a physical fact and calculated the Earth's circumference.
The notion that the Earth revolves around the Sun had been proposed as early as the third century BC by Aristarchus of Samos,[1] who had been influenced by a concept presented by Philolaus of Croton (c. 470 – 385 BC).
4. There is certainly more than one. They all differ in some way major or minor and contradict each other and themselves. Even IF one were to be true (a big IF) the odds are you are not going to pick it.
According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, or ultimate concerns.
5. Just because you see or feel something it does not automatically make it true. People have hallucinations, your brain can fail. People experience phantom limb pain and things of that nature. Clean air is transparent.
On December 20 2023 14:37 Azzur wrote: The Bible is the most well preserved ancient manuscript ever - there is no dispute to this, and both Christian and secular historians will agree to this. This means that when you read the Bible, you can be confident that the text you're reading is the same text that has been preserved thousands of years ago.
This isn't even close to true. Currently, there are dozens of different versions of the Bible, based on copies of translations of copies of second-hand accounts of copies of interpretations. It's always been a perpetual game of telephone - and that's totally fine for most Christians, anyway, since most don't read the Bible (and most of those who do read the Bible, don't take it all literally).
Just say no, and if they dont want to be friends anymore over that then they were never a friend to begin with they were just being friendly in hope of converting you.
Ah yes, a classic Garnet blog post, even though it's not a girl blog this time. Can't wait for the sequel where we learn he didn't listen to anybody's advice. So just to go against the grain and break my own prophecy I'll advise something completely different.
You should definitely devote your life to Jesus and keep your friend.
On December 22 2023 03:55 HornyHerring wrote: Ah yes, a classic Garnet blog post, even though it's not a girl blog this time. Can't wait for the sequel where we learn he didn't listen to anybody's advice. So just to go against the grain and break my own prophecy I'll advise something completely different.
You should definitely devote your life to Jesus and keep your friend.
I may be dumb when it comes to relationships but this stuff is different. It's quite obvious when they couldn't show anything concrete to prove the "sacred teachings" they deducted from the Bible and just kept telling me to "believe without seeing".
EPT
